Dog on Summit to Hawaii 1/29/06

[tuggers]

Susan, I think, unfortunately, it has to do with the 'me, me, me' syndrome that seems to pervade a good deal of our lives. Who are the chair hogs thinking of? 'me' Who are the line cutters thinking of? 'me' Who are the chair savers in the show lounge thinking of? 'me' You know when I was growing up my mother would have slapped me up side the head for any of the above infractions. I wish there had been more mothers like her. Maybe the world would be a more civilized one. BTW, she also would not have allowed a man to wear a hat at the table either, even a ball cap. That's another nicety I would like to see come back!!!

[Moeve]

I was asked if I had such a Phobia - fortunately I can say no however I volenteer for a group who help bite victims so perhaps that makes me more sensitive to the other side of the coin....and that was all I was trying to point out!!! That there is always another side to concider too. I never said that service animals should not be allowed - I just pointed out the other side of the coin and that can be no less harrowing or debilitating than a physical disabilitiy. That is all I am going to say on this topic!

[tuggers]

Mornin', Phil!

 

I still think the service monkeys would be fun on a ship. And not large. So no one could complain about size. And don't they wear diapers? Just not in the pool!:D

[Cptn. Heimlich]

I agree with the poster who told of the dog being for the gentleman's hearing impairment. This was confirmed onboard. While it is unfortunate that he MAY be hearing impaired, the little dog was ALWAYS with his wife-not him. On the last day we observed him hearing quite well. This appeared to be a sad example of someone wanting to exploit a good rule for Fido's sake.

 

Note to the next person who tries it... Bring a REAL dog. That thing was pathetic. I called it a 'Service Guinnea Pig';)

[wolfganghowell]

Captain - as the owner of a Yorkie (ok - she's 10 pounds not the tiny quivering kind), I am "offended" by the Guinea Pig comparison. We prefer squirrel as the animal of comparison.

[Blazerboy]

BTW, she also would not have allowed a man to wear a hat at the table either, even a ball cap. That's another nicety I would like to see come back!!!

Amen, sister! But I have to confess...

 

I've tried to soften the rules some, because my hair looks so funny(what's left of it) when I take off my cap after walking the decks. But I still feel guilty! I would never wear a hat indoors, but have been known to walk through to get to my cabin. O.k., honestly, I also stopped and got a bagel with lox at the buffet. Now I see it's a slippery slope! :( I'm probably the cause of some people claiming that it's o.k. to wear a hat until you enter the actual formal dining room-what, the lobby of the ship might have a sudden gust of wind???- , so I hereby pledge to try not to give anyone any more ammunition! :D

 

Hats don't belong on gentlemen indoors, or "below decks," which is any area indoors on a ship.:p

 

Andrew

[jaynak]

Back to the ORIGINAL topic of the little 'dog' on the Summit who was a 'service' dog. There are a few facts I would like to point out: #1 'Dog' in question was 'always' with the lady. The joke onboard was that hearing impared husband couldn't hear because he was dead. #2 Upon disembarkation I had the misfortune of standing right behind Mr. and Mrs. and 'dog' (so there really was a Mr. after all). Mrs. nattered and argued at Mr. the whole time and believe me he heard every word. And he WASN'T lip reading either (unless he had eyes on the back of his head) Maybe the dog spoke to him telepathically.

 

Let's all agree that we love dogs and we love service dogs and none of us would ever deny a legitimate service dog admittance on the ship. This however was strange - didn't affect my cruise though. Jayna K

[Blazerboy]

Back to the ORIGINAL topic of the little 'dog' on the Summit who was a 'service' dog.

Sorry.:o I do yammer on sometimes...

 

Let's all agree that we love dogs and we love service dogs and none of us would ever deny a legitimate service dog admittance on the ship. This however was strange - didn't affect my cruise though. Jayna K

Yea, Jayna!:) Isn't the last sentence the most important? As long as they don't affect me, I can actually relish some of the eccentric characters on a ship. Sounds like this lady was one, to put the best spin on it.:D

[hugosmom]

I can only speak about the service animal I know and love, but in three and a half years, I have never seen him jump on anyone. When we have friends over, he goes to greet them wagging his tail, and then immediately goes to sit down. When he is working, he does not acknowledge other people until my husband tells him that he is allowed to. We would certainly never impose him on someone who obviously was afraid. On cruises we have met many people, both passengers and staff, who miss their own dogs and are very happy to see him. My husband is very accommodating about dismissing Hero from duty for a few minutes so that people can pet him if they want. Then it's back to work.

 

Wow - I'm now wondering what program Hero is from - because he sounds so much like Hugo! I've lived with dog guides for 18 years (Hessi, Clay, now Hugo) and can assure you all that my experience is exactly the same as clopaw describes.

 

Yes, we do run across folks who are scared of dogs or allergic to dogs, but frankly the "yelps" of terror (or other, more subdued, reactions) are more likely to attract the attention of the dog and distract the team. A service animal team works best when they are allowed to conduct themselves with total focus on their work together, and that's why it's better to not approach the team while they are working. I guess what I'm saying is that, just like it's hard on the team to deal with folks running up going "Oh, I love dogs - isn't he sweet - what's his name?" it's hard for them to be walking along and suddenly hear "ohmygod, get that dog outta here - I'm allergic". Just like I calmly remove myself from the presence of a person who is wearing perfume that gives me a headache, so can the person who is afraid or allergic can remove themselves - or wait for the next elevator, or just stand aside and let us pass. It's even ok to say "I'm sorry, I'm really afraid of dogs so I'm going to move on." We understand!

 

And let me say just one more thing - not all service animals behave 100% of the time. It is the handler of the animal who is responsible for seeing that it behaves and does its job properly. If the handler isn't responsible enough to control the animal's behavior, every other handler suffers. So we don't appreciate out-of-control service animals any more than anyone else. And don't get me started on those who bring animals that aren't legitimate service animals... that's a slap in the face of every person from Morris Frank (www.seeingeye.org) to the 6-year old boy in the wheelchair whose golden retriever picks up the pencil he just dropped.

[hugosmom]

[quote=Blazerboy]:) Hugo'sMom, still wish you were cruising with us!

 

Yes, me, too - but on the other hand, my husband now "has" to go to Australia in early May and since we're not cruising transatlantic, I get to go to Australia! And we thought Hugo's paperwork to cruise was intense - you should see what we have to do through to get him in Australia.

 

But I couldn't resist posting here because of all the great guide dog stories from their "guardians." What amazing animals. Glad to know that people's ignorance doesn't stop you from cruising.:) If only guide dogs could help with the ignorance!

Yes - and really I can understand someone's fear or allergy issues - they are real! But so is my husband's blindness real, and if it weren't for his dog guides, he would not be able to travel independently for business all over the world, selling, and training other blind people in the use of, screen-reading software. Without the software that reads the computer screen to those who are blind, they wouldn't be able to use a computer at all.

 

It also seems to me that often, people like to meddle with disability issues and disabled peoples' lives when there's absolutely NO impact on their own lives, but they're afraid "someone else is getting special treatment that they're not!"

Oh, wow - you are so right!

 

Do/can people abuse the parking spaces/companion dog access? Yes, I'm sure a few do/could, but I'd rather have those few get away with it, so that those in need get the space/service dog they need, than deny people based on fear of abuse of the system! :cool:

 

Compassion for others, folks. I also like Bob's attitude that you assume the best intentions first, until proved otherwise...:)

 

Thank you! And thank you, Bob, too.

 

Just one problem - wonder if we can get Qantas Airlines to follow Celebrity's lead and put a 4 x 4 box of mulch in one of the bathrooms for Hugo to use? It's 14 hours from LA to Sydney - yikes!

[Blazerboy]

:o How sweet. Now I wish it even more! Poor Hugo. Couldn't they give him (and you) a nice big section of First Class? I'm sure, for the trade off of a sleeper chair for him, he'd suffer a little in the "facilities" dept.!;)

 

(O.k., I probably just lost all my "comprehension of the role of service dogs" points by treating Hugo like the spoiled-rotten Corgi I have at home...)

 

Safe travel Down Under!

 

Andrew

[nu2sea]

Captain - as the owner of a Yorkie (ok - she's 10 pounds not the tiny quivering kind), I am "offended" by the Guinea Pig comparison. We prefer squirrel as the animal of comparison.

 

Once heard a chihuahua described as a rat with a thyroid condition.:eek:

:D :D

Susan

[wvufan]

A little off topic, well, a lot off the original topic, but so what:rolleyes:

 

One of my functions in my previous job was Vocational Rehabilitation Counselor for the Blind. So, I have had a lot of experience with guide dogs, etc. It is a thing of beauty to watch a properly trained team and a heartbreak to see someone who forgets or ignores everything they were ever taught about handling and caring for their dog. There is an intense screening process to make sure the individual is psychologically and otherwise capable of having a guide dog, but occasionally mistakes are made. Usually this is with younger folks who simply have never had such awesome responsibility before, and are not prepared for the committment it takes.

 

Anyway, thanks to your husband for spreading the use of the screen reading software (JAWS? Window eyes?). True story: I worked with a guy starting in 1990 who in the early 80s was told that he had absolutely no college potential and that he should consider such jobs as piano tuner, darkroom technician, etc. Well, because of the development of technological accommodations such as what Hugomomhusband sells, he ended up with a bachelor's degree in computer science from Marietta College [Ohio] and has worked for years as a computer programmer and college instructor. Hard for those of us who can see to comprehend that. However, computers are electronic-a monitor is simply how we access it. For those who are blind, the screen reader and related accomdotions are how they access it.

 

Anyway, Benny Hill is coming on and I need to get my culture fix for the day:rolleyes:

 

OOOEEE:D :D Bob and Phyl

 

PS, it is my understanding that at the Westminster Dog Show, there were a number of animals who had irresponsible and unnecessary humans accompany them. Sorta like hangers-on in rock star entourages:D .Some surely were just there under false pretenses, and really weren't needed. Some were well behaved, but others were snippy little things; others were big intimidating menaces; some yipped all day long; others growled; some looked more like cows than humans; there were some who monkeyed around, and more than a few made pigs of themselves. And the whole danged lot of them used the bathroom!

[Pudgesmom]

My question here would be:

 

How are service dogs certified? Is there a central authority or authorities who conduct a test for deportment and temperment ?

 

I think many of us would like to bring our pets on vacation (myself included). To me, it's not about whether a person has an obvious handicap, but whether they actually HAVE a handicap at all.

 

The woman who spent her cruise with her husband's "service" dog highlights the issue. Maybe we're all just a little jealous, and wonder if, since after all, OUR pets make US feel better, they too could be certified.

 

My last cruise on HAL included a group of people, I think about 30, all travelling with well-behaved and useful service dogs. I'm not against that, I just wonder how or who certifies these dogs as useful.

 

Anybody?

 

 

Beth

[Blazerboy]

Pudgesmom, since I have the same desire in wanting to bring Hubble with me on vacation, I'll jump in here before angry voices stir...

 

Guide dogs are usually trained from a very young age, and raised and trained for that specific purpose by specific guide dog breeders. They are then trained with their new owners for a good deal of time. Having an adult dog certified as a guide dog, while not impossible, would be extremely rare. Yes, there are companion animals that don't look like our stereotype of a guide dog, but they have the skills nonetheless.

 

I think what you are asking specifically is a very narrow segment of the service dog population, those that are trained to provide support to their owners in times of stress associated with psychological conditions of the owner. In these cases, there may be less training to certify a dog, but if it isn't medically necessary for the owner, the fault lies with the prescribing physician who says otherwise.

 

Once again, I find myself saying that if it helps mostly people who truly need it, and doesn't cause more than the pangs you and I both experience when we're away from our pets, I'd leave it alone. Let the people willing to commit fraud with their Doctors to accomplish what would merely be a "nice thing" for us, not a necessity, have their special place in <heck>

 

Andrew

[hugosmom]

:o How sweet. Now I wish it even more! Poor Hugo. Couldn't they give him (and you) a nice big section of First Class? I'm sure, for the trade off of a sleeper chair for him, he'd suffer a little in the "facilities" dept.!;)

 

(O.k., I probably just lost all my "comprehension of the role of service dogs" points by treating Hugo like the spoiled-rotten Corgi I have at home...)

 

Well, Qantas books an extra seat next to the person traveling with a dog guide, so Hugo will have the floor in front of that seat all to himself. (He usually is on our feet!) I'll be sure to ask him after 8 or 10 hours if he'd rather have that space or be able to relieve himself! And, at least with my husband's dogs, they all have been strictly business when in harness, and just a dog when out of harness. Case in point - I just picked them up from the airport (they were in Boston this week) and Hugo got them from deep inside terminal B to outside where I pick them up. Then he walked through the door here at home, hubby got Hugo out of the harness, and he proceded to run laps around the house: down the hallway, through the living room, dining room, kitchen, laundry room, back down the hallway - at least three circles, then jumped up on the bed with a big sigh like he was saying "I'm glad to be home!"

[hugosmom]

Anyway, thanks to your husband for spreading the use of the screen reading software (JAWS? Window eyes?).

 

Window-Eyes! GW Micro is the name of the company. And my husband, who graduated high school in the 60's, is one of those who was a piano tuner, until he bought his first Radio Shack computer and taught himself how to use it! It's a good thing he's stubborn and refuses to listen when somebody says "you can't do that." I'm glad your client is, too!

 

True story: I worked with a guy starting in 1990 who in the early 80s was told that he had absolutely no college potential and that he should consider such jobs as piano tuner, darkroom technician, etc. Well, because of the development of technological accommodations such as what Hugomomhusband sells, he ended up with a bachelor's degree in computer science from Marietta College [Ohio] and has worked for years as a computer programmer and college instructor. Hard for those of us who can see to comprehend that. However, computers are electronic-a monitor is simply how we access it. For those who are blind, the screen reader and related accomdotions are how they access it.

 

Have you seen the braille displays that allow those who are deaf and blind to use the computer? Incredible.

[tuggers]

I think that's EXACTLY what he was saying. He was glad to be home!

[hugosmom]

My question here would be:

 

How are service dogs certified? Is there a central authority or authorities who conduct a test for deportment and temperment ?

 

No - each Program (whether guide, hearing, mobility - whatever) trains and "certifies" differently. And the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) doesn't require "certification" - to be granted access, the animal has to be specially trained to mitigate the effects of the person's disability. That's it.

 

I think many of us would like to bring our pets on vacation (myself included). To me, it's not about whether a person has an obvious handicap, but whether they actually HAVE a handicap at all.

 

I'd like to bring my pet (Buddy) on vacation and other places, too, but I can't take him where pets aren't allowed. Hugo, on the other hand, is not a pet. He's a working dog.

 

The woman who spent her cruise with her husband's "service" dog highlights the issue. Maybe we're all just a little jealous, and wonder if, since after all, OUR pets make US feel better, they too could be certified.

 

It's the ADA that allows the service animal access - for pets to be allowed, even if certified, would fall under some other jurisdiction.

 

My last cruise on HAL included a group of people, I think about 30, all travelling with well-behaved and useful service dogs. I'm not against that, I just wonder how or who certifies these dogs as useful.

 

30? Oh, my - that's a lot! I'm so glad to hear that the dogs were well-behaved.

[fleckle]

I worked with a guy starting in 1990 who in the early 80s was told that he had absolutely no college potential and that he should consider such jobs as piano tuner, darkroom technician, etc. Well, because of the development of technological accommodations such as what Hugomomhusband sells, he ended up with a bachelor's degree in computer science from Marietta College [Ohio] and has worked for years as a computer programmer and college instructor. Hard for those of us who can see to comprehend that.

But not hard to comprehend for anyone who has ever watched a blind person using a computer. Blind people have been employed as computer programmers for many years, and use of computers by the blind is quite commonplace these days, even among those of preschool age.

 

At the college where I taught, back around 1980 a young blind man named Randy, and his beautiful black lab, enrolled in an Introduction to Computer Programming class taught by one of my colleagues. At the end of the first class, the professor took Randy aside and tactfully informed him that although it was very admirable of him to want to take the course, it was not realistic for a blind person to expect to become a computer programmer.

 

Randy brashly replied that to the contrary, he felt it was a very realistic goal because he knew of successful blind computer programmers, and he intended to become one of them. He explained that he did not expect any special treatment in class, except for one request: whenever the professor wrote something on the blackboard, would he please read it aloud. So of course my friend agreed to do that, but he was still very skeptical, convinced that Randy was wasting his time and money. Still, Randy had paid for the course, so he had as much right to be in the class and fail it as anyone else.

 

As you have probably guessed, Randy received an "A" in the course, and went on to complete his programming degree and graduate with honors. I don't think there was a dry eye in the house when his dog led him up the stairs and across the stage at the graduation ceremonies. The pair received a thunderous standing ovation.

 

In his last semester, Randy was accepted for a computer programming internship with a utility company. The people there were so impressed with him that they hired him as a full time programmer upon graduation, and purchased special hardware and software for him (which were very expensive back in those days).

 

The doubting professor was the first to admit he had been wrong, and he became one of the staunchest advocates of computers for the blind, going around telling the story of Randy's success to one and all. About the only unfortunate outcome was that he became a little too enthusiastic in convincing the guidance department that blind people could be good computer programmers. There was a great demand for computer programmers in those days. So for a while, whenever blind students enrolled at the college, the guidance counselors tried to steer them into computer programming. In many cases that turned out to be a big mistake because all blind people do not have the aptitude to be computer programmers, any more than all sighted people do.

[tuggers]

Funny! We humans do like to pigeon hole, don't we?:D

[Cptn. Heimlich]

Pudgesmom had this to say "My last cruise on HAL included a group of people, I think about 30, all travelling with well-behaved and useful service dogs. I'm not against that, I just wonder how or who certifies these dogs as useful."

 

 

Well there can only be two explanations for this:

 

A: There was a group of blind people wishing to go on a cruise together (in which case, each of the 30 dogs would have been wearing the proper back-banner indicating that they are a real 'service dog' and it would have been most interesting to observe them at work!

 

B: There was a bunch of CC lurkers who noticed how easily they could bring their pets on board. And so there were 30 dogs of all breeds (mostly hairless teacup sized non-banner-wearing mutts) accompanying the happy CC members all the while having pet parties booked at The Edge of the Earth. (You know, grooming demonstrations, petfood sponsored dog shows with tricks and everything)!

 

 

I would certainly hope it was the former but as this gains press the chance of it being the latter increases greatly.:eek:

[SeaDays]

Let me offer a different possible explanation.

 

On two cruises (and I know one was definitely 'X') we witnessed a man openly walking a small dog throughout the ship.

 

It turned out that the man was an entertainer (a magician I believe), and the dog was part of his act. The dog was a regular, but I don't know if it had reached "elite" level yet.

[wolfganghowell]

rwethereyet - it made me laugh and I'm a woman. No offense taken by me, it was meant to be tongue in cheek.

 

Hug Hugo for me - it cracks me up how consistent certain behaviors can be. When we come home from a cruise and get Wolfgang and Gidget from the doggie resort, Wolf does the same thing - runs like a banshee from room to room and plays with every stuffed animal he has and spreads them all over the place. Hugo was happy to be home and in his routine!

[clopaw]

I'm going to tell on Hero, who is not always perfect (just almost always). Last year when we cruised to Alaska, we were gone from home for two weeks. Toward the end of the cruise, Hero wasn't his normal, outgoing self. He was polite to people, but just not that interested. Anyway, we took a minivan taxi home from the airport. I had to sit up front with the driver, and Paul and Hero were in the middle seat. When we got home, Paul evidently wasn't moving fast enough for Hero because I had already gotten out, so he leaped into the front seat and out of the cab. "It's my house. I'm Home." We really laughed because that is so unlike him.

 

Hugo's mom, Hero graduated from Guide Dogs for the Blind in San Rafael, California. It's a wonderful program. Since you mentioned Seeing Eye, can I assume that is Hugo's alma mater?