Bait & Switch - Itinerary Change

[albingirl]

I just got an email that Key West was canceled from my future cruise. I expected this after all the discussion over the past few years. We went on a bar crawl once and it was fun. The leader of the tour congratulated me at the end since I was the only one who wasnt drunk.. He was a former state cop. I basically didn't do shots like the rest of the gang. 

[latserrof]

We were on a Rotterdam cruise a couple of years ago,  weather kept changing the itinerary so many times en route that we started calling it "the mystery cruise,"  we never knew where we would end up the next day.  Even the shorex staff got confused, they started re-booking shore excursions for the wrong day.

 

The skipper was able to outrun or out-maneuver most of the bad weather, as the Rotterdam was then the second-fastest cruise ship afloat (after QE2). She was the HAL flagship, but was sold during the COVID break.

 

It was still a great cruise.

[3rdGenCunarder]

19 hours ago, ldtr said:

 

 

How many same o same o ports do we need with the exact same stores run by the exact same companies in every port from Alaska to the Carribbean. Many ports used to be unique now the ports themselves are basically the same and the differences are only when you get away from the cruise ship ports themselves.

 

The cruise lines have largely brought these responses upon themselves  as they retire smaller ships and builder ever larger ships.  Basically they will keep dumping an ever increasing number of passengers from an ever increasing number of ships, until the locals say enough.

 

 

 

I cut down your post because I want to comment on just these two points. I have been cruising for a long time and I have seen the changes you talk about all too often. For example, I was in St Kitts on a cruise in 2006 or so, and then again 10 years later. I got off the ship and NOTHING was familiar. It wasn't until I walked past Diamonds International, Del Sol, etc that I recognized the place I had been to before. In any port, I make an effort to get past the chain stores and enjoy a good wander, look for a local market, stop for coffee or a beer. 

 

Sometimes I wonder if I'm the only one who does try to see something local. So many cruisers WANT Diamonds International and Del Sol and all the rest of that. I remember being on a HAL cruise to the Caribbean and going to the shore info desk to get a local map. The woman ahead of me was worried her tour wouldn't get back soon enough for her to go to Diamonds International. Like there wouldn't be one in the next port...

 

As for ship size, I go to whatsinport to see what other ships will be in port with my ship to get a sense of how the day will go. St Maarten can take so many ships that sometimes I just make it a stay-aboard day. I remember before the megadock and shopping development, only one ship would be there, at anchor and tendering into Phillipsburg.

 

It will be interesting to see what happens if more ports limit visitor counts. The cruise lines with Behemoth of the Ocean Edge tout the ship as the destination. It's a floating resort with 15 restaurants, shopping mall, bumper cars, a 4-deck high water slide! Who needs ports, anyway...  

Edited November 11, 2022 by 3rdGenCunarder

[Guest ldtr]

9 minutes ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

I cut down your post because I want to comment on just these two points. I have been cruising for a long time and I have seen the changes you talk about all too often. For example, I was in St Kitts on a cruise in 2006 or so, and then again 10 years later. I got off the ship and NOTHING was familiar. It wasn't until I walked past Diamonds International, Del Sol, etc that I recognized the place I had been to before. In any port, I make an effort to get past the chain stores and enjoy a good wander, look for a local market, stop for coffee or a beer. 

 

Sometimes I wonder if I'm the only one who does try to see something local. So many cruisers WANT Diamonds International and Del Sol and all the rest of that. I remember being on a HAL cruise to the Caribbean and going to the shore info desk to get a local map. The woman ahead of me was worried her tour wouldn't get back soon enough for her to go to Diamonds International. Like there wouldn't be one in the next port...

 

As for ship size, I go to whatsinport to see what other ships will be in port with my ship to get a sense of how the day will go. St Maarten can take so many ships that sometimes I just make it a stay-aboard day. I remember before the megadock and shopping development, only one ship would be there, at anchor and tendering into Phillipsburg.

 

It will be interesting to see what happens if more ports limit visitor counts. The cruise lines with Behemoth of the Ocean Edge tout the ship as the destination. It's a floating resort with 15 restaurants, shopping mall, bumper cars, a 4-deck high water slide! Who needs ports, anyway...  

The number of places putting limits in place is increasing.  You also have places like Grand Cayman,  that is not adding limits, but they have decided not to build a pier and will require cruise ships to continue to tender (Royal told them that they would not bring the 5000+ ships if there was not a pier).  

 

I continue to cruise, but more to either places that get limited number of cruise ships and are less impacted or for Trans Atlantic and Trans pacific routes (though most of those port stops tend to get relatively few compared to the Caribbean.

[Hlitner]

29 minutes ago, ldtr said:

The number of places putting limits in place is increasing.  You also have places like Grand Cayman,  that is not adding limits, but they have decided not to build a pier and will require cruise ships to continue to tender (Royal told them that they would not bring the 5000+ ships if there was not a pier).  

 

I continue to cruise, but more to either places that get limited number of cruise ships and are less impacted or for Trans Atlantic and Trans pacific routes (though most of those port stops tend to get relatively few compared to the Caribbean.

Cruise lines are sometimes their own worst enemy.  One does not have to go back too many years when most cruise ships had decent port lectures that would educate/inform cruisers about a port, their various transportation options. where they might want to go, etc.  HAL used to have a wonderful port expert named Frank Buckingham who would readily help any cruiser who wanted info on trains, buses, rental cars, restaurants, etc.  Towards the end of his lecture career, HAL reined-in Frank (and other lecturers) since the line wanted to Sell Excursions, not encourage folks to DIY.  Excursions feed the bottom line, but an independent person does not!   But as more folks take excursions less money gets spent and spread around local shops, transportation, etc.  Cruisers are kept in a an "excursion cocoon" where they generally go where they are told (which are generally only places that kick-back to the tour company).  The local jewelry store remains near empty while many cruisers head off to Diamonds International which is a company owned by a New Yorker that is generous to tour companies (and cruise ships).  Many ships actually try to discourage folks from venturing out on their own (and spending money in places that do not kick-back).  We actually were once on a Celebrity cruise that ported in Rio right after the excellent jewelry store, H. Stern, pulled their advertising and "financial support" because Mrs. Stern got tired of playing the game (which is almost like extortion).  Celebrity actually published a warning (in their daily newsletter) for cruisers to avoid H. Stern as the line promoted Amsterdam Sauer who continued to play the game.  Another big con is the so-called "guarantees" which really means that those stores have paid a fee (call it extortion) to be among those mentioned by the port lecturer.

 

We are now seeing this same pattern on transatlantics.  Ports like Funchal are becoming more and more like St Thomas, with most cruisers taking excursions to limited places.  Folks even pay $60 a person for "walking tours" which walk them to various sites/stores that kick-back to the tour company.   Even private tour guides favor stores/restaurants that "kick back" something to the guide (and the guide's company).  I met one Lisbon tour guide who told me he never had to pay for a meal when he took his wife out to local restaurants!  Bring a few tourists into a restaurant or store and those places do show their thanks.  And the better restaurant down the street will not get that guide's business because they choose not to be part of the payola game.   Money does make the world go round.

 

But now, communities are finding that cruisers often drive away paying customers and bring in outside owned merchants (who do not have the best products or prices).   There was a time when St Thomas, VI, had wall to wall linen/tablecloth stores!  They are almost all gone replaced by the too common junk jewelry, or overpriced jewelry, liquor stores, etc. favored by cruisers.  The s.ame thing has happened to Gibraltar (although this is not all the fault of cruise lines) where the same old same old electronics/jewelry places have replaced most of the cute boutiques

 

Hank

[Guest ldtr]

9 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

Cruise lines are sometimes their own worst enemy.  One does not have to go back too many years when most cruise ships had decent port lectures that would educate/inform cruisers about a port, their various transportation options. where they might want to go, etc.  HAL used to have a wonderful port expert named Frank Buckingham who would readily help any cruiser who wanted info on trains, buses, rental cars, restaurants, etc.  Towards the end of his lecture career, HAL reined-in Frank (and other lecturers) since the line wanted to Sell Excursions, not encourage folks to DIY.  Excursions feed the bottom line, but an independent person does not!   But as more folks take excursions less money gets spent and spread around local shops, transportation, etc.  Cruisers are kept in a an "excursion cocoon" where they generally go where they are told (which are generally only places that kick-back to the tour company).  The local jewelry store remains near empty while many cruisers head off to Diamonds International which is a company owned by a New Yorker that is generous to tour companies (and cruise ships).  Many ships actually try to discourage folks from venturing out on their own (and spending money in places that do not kick-back).  We actually were once on a Celebrity cruise that ported in Rio right after the excellent jewelry store, H. Stern, pulled their advertising and "financial support" because Mrs. Stern got tired of playing the game (which is almost like extortion).  Celebrity actually published a warning (in their daily newsletter) for cruisers to avoid H. Stern as the line promoted Amsterdam Sauer who continued to play the game.  Another big con is the so-called "guarantees" which really means that those stores have paid a fee (call it extortion) to be among those mentioned by the port lecturer.

 

We are now seeing this same pattern on transatlantics.  Ports like Funchal are becoming more and more like St Thomas, with most cruisers taking excursions to limited places.  Folks even pay $60 a person for "walking tours" which walk them to various sites/stores that kick-back to the tour company.   Even private tour guides favor stores/restaurants that "kick back" something to the guide (and the guide's company).  I met one Lisbon tour guide who told me he never had to pay for a meal when he took his wife out to local restaurants!  Bring a few tourists into a restaurant or store and those places do show their thanks.  And the better restaurant down the street will not get that guide's business because they choose not to be part of the payola game.   Money does make the world go round.

 

But now, communities are finding that cruisers often drive away paying customers and bring in outside owned merchants (who do not have the best products or prices).   There was a time when St Thomas, VI, had wall to wall linen/tablecloth stores!  They are almost all gone replaced by the too common junk jewelry, or overpriced jewelry, liquor stores, etc. favored by cruisers.  The s.ame thing has happened to Gibraltar (although this is not all the fault of cruise lines) where the same old same old electronics/jewelry places have replaced most of the cute boutiques

 

Hank

Knew a local merchant in Ketchikan that refused to play the game and actually posted a sign outside of his store showing exactly what it would have cost him to be a cruise line approved business.  After a few years he decided that it was no longer worth it, retired and sold his business.  The store is now owned by a non-local that runs businesses at several cruise ports in both Alaska and the Caribbean (in the fall when the Alaska cruise season shuts down they move employees and inventory to their Caribbean stores for that season.  In the Spring they move back.)  Other than taxes not much benefit to either location.

 

At least in Funchal there is not enough cruise ship traffic that the stores have been replaced by the cruise line camp followers.

 

 

[Wakepatrol]

5 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Cruise lines are sometimes their own worst enemy.  One does not have to go back too many years when most cruise ships had decent port lectures that would educate/inform cruisers about a port, their various transportation options. where they might want to go, etc.  HAL used to have a wonderful port expert named Frank Buckingham who would readily help any cruiser who wanted info on trains, buses, rental cars, restaurants, etc.  Towards the end of his lecture career, HAL reined-in Frank (and other lecturers) since the line wanted to Sell Excursions, not encourage folks to DIY.  Excursions feed the bottom line, but an independent person does not!   But as more folks take excursions less money gets spent and spread around local shops, transportation, etc.  Cruisers are kept in a an "excursion cocoon" where they generally go where they are told (which are generally only places that kick-back to the tour company).  The local jewelry store remains near empty while many cruisers head off to Diamonds International which is a company owned by a New Yorker that is generous to tour companies (and cruise ships).  Many ships actually try to discourage folks from venturing out on their own (and spending money in places that do not kick-back).  We actually were once on a Celebrity cruise that ported in Rio right after the excellent jewelry store, H. Stern, pulled their advertising and "financial support" because Mrs. Stern got tired of playing the game (which is almost like extortion).  Celebrity actually published a warning (in their daily newsletter) for cruisers to avoid H. Stern as the line promoted Amsterdam Sauer who continued to play the game.  Another big con is the so-called "guarantees" which really means that those stores have paid a fee (call it extortion) to be among those mentioned by the port lecturer.

 

We are now seeing this same pattern on transatlantics.  Ports like Funchal are becoming more and more like St Thomas, with most cruisers taking excursions to limited places.  Folks even pay $60 a person for "walking tours" which walk them to various sites/stores that kick-back to the tour company.   Even private tour guides favor stores/restaurants that "kick back" something to the guide (and the guide's company).  I met one Lisbon tour guide who told me he never had to pay for a meal when he took his wife out to local restaurants!  Bring a few tourists into a restaurant or store and those places do show their thanks.  And the better restaurant down the street will not get that guide's business because they choose not to be part of the payola game.   Money does make the world go round.

 

But now, communities are finding that cruisers often drive away paying customers and bring in outside owned merchants (who do not have the best products or prices).   There was a time when St Thomas, VI, had wall to wall linen/tablecloth stores!  They are almost all gone replaced by the too common junk jewelry, or overpriced jewelry, liquor stores, etc. favored by cruisers.  The s.ame thing has happened to Gibraltar (although this is not all the fault of cruise lines) where the same old same old electronics/jewelry places have replaced most of the cute boutiques

 

Hank

Great post- Thank you😀

[Beach Basket]

I’m very sorry for your disappointment, but Key West has been turning ships away on a regular basis for environmental reasons.  Right now plan on port changes. We have been on three cruises for a total of 28 days and have had five  port changes.  One change on each one week cruise and three changes on our 14 day cruise.  We have a 10 day Caribbean cruise in December and will expect something to change.  Unfortunately,  that’s the way it is at the moment. 

[Roz]

On 11/10/2022 at 8:52 AM, Diver2014 said:

Not that this will help the OP much but Key West just isn't what everyone expects it to be.  It's a tourist town with plenty of land travelers let alone a few ship loads of more tourists.  There's just not that much to see there.  You can wander around Duvall Street amongst the t shirt and sunglass shops or visit the aquarium or Mel Fisher's gold treasure museum but that's it.  Unless you want to sit on the waterfront and have cocktails and watch the boats go by all day.  Going on a cruise just to see Key West is setting oneself up for disappointment. IMHO.

 

I LOVE Key West.  Some of the interesting places I've visited include the Hemingway House, Harry Truman's Little White House, the Audobon House, the buoy marking the southernmost point in the US, and Fort Zachary Taylor Historic State Park.

[newtocruiseinblue]

On 11/9/2022 at 6:11 AM, teh3505 said:

Just book my cruise last Friday - Key West, Falmouth Jamaica, Cayman Islands & Half Moon Cay,  This morning I wake up to email from HA telling me due to operational reasons the call to Key West has been replaced with Bimini, Bahamas.  I am not happy with the change.  I booked it because of the Key West stop.  I have never heard of Bimini before...Very Disappointed!!.  Also no on board credit to off set the itinerary change.  This is my first time cruising with HA and it will be my last.

We left Bimini yesterday. The beaches are amazing! We rented a gold cart and did our own thing. Watch YouTube videos about it. It feels more like an eastern Caribbean port not the Bahamas. Take the golf cart down the road and find this little shipwreck behind the cemetery. 

[scottsol]

7 hours ago, newtocruiseinblue said:

We left Bimini yesterday. The beaches are amazing! We rented a gold cart and did our own thing. Watch YouTube videos about it. It feels more like an eastern Caribbean port not the Bahamas. Take the golf cart down the road and find this little shipwreck behind the cemetery. 

Do they have a shrine to Adam Clayton Powell?