Flaming Baked Alaska Parade

[Robbie555]

In my 2005 Sapphire Princess cruise to Alaska, on the last formal night there was a waiter parade in which displayed the Baked Alaska dessert authentically in that the actual flame was used and the entire dining room played the Arrow song Hot Hot Hot. Attached is a picture from my 2005 Sapphire Princess cruise showing the Baked Alaska with the real fire.

 

In my 2022 Emerald Princess cruise across the Panama Canal, there was another Baked Alaska parade but there was no accompanying music but even worse, an artificial light was put on the cake and there was no real flame.

 

Do you know if there's any other cruise lines which serve Baked Alaska with a real flame these days?

[Heidi13]

19 hours ago, Robbie555 said:

In my 2005 Sapphire Princess cruise to Alaska, on the last formal night there was a waiter parade in which displayed the Baked Alaska dessert authentically in that the actual flame was used and the entire dining room played the Arrow song Hot Hot Hot. Attached is a picture from my 2005 Sapphire Princess cruise showing the Baked Alaska with the real fire.

 

In my 2022 Emerald Princess cruise across the Panama Canal, there was another Baked Alaska parade but there was no accompanying music but even worse, an artificial light was put on the cake and there was no real flame.

 

Do you know if there's any other cruise lines which serve Baked Alaska with a real flame these days?

 

 

Highly unlikely due to Fire Detection & Extinguishing Regulations.

[CGTNORMANDIE]

Those days are long gone…sadly.  As Heidi said…the fire regulations have killed the Baked Alaska parade.  I, for one, love a good Baked Alaska…cake and ice cream smothered in a nougat meringue…yummm.  I was witness to many a dining room parade over the years and I enjoyed every one of them.

[Robbie555]

Other things that I missed are:

 

1. Galley tour

2. Theatre backstage tour

 

Hopefully those tours will come back.

[Heidi13]

On 1/15/2023 at 7:14 PM, CGTNORMANDIE said:

Those days are long gone…sadly.  As Heidi said…the fire regulations have killed the Baked Alaska parade.  I, for one, love a good Baked Alaska…cake and ice cream smothered in a nougat meringue…yummm.  I was witness to many a dining room parade over the years and I enjoyed every one of them.

 

The Baked Alaskas back in the 70's and 80's on the Princess ships were very enjoyable, as I often had a piece every week. By the mid-2000's I found the quality started to decline, especially the meringue - just didn't taste the same as the originals.  Consequently, I haven't tried it since.

 

I concur, the MDR parades were enjoyable to watch, even having them every week, regardless of where we were cruising.

[DC225]

I'm all for nostalgia, but I always thought the Baked Alaska parade was so incredibly cheesy.  It's one of the few aspects of "old time cruising" I don't really miss.

[CGTNORMANDIE]

28 minutes ago, DC225 said:

I'm all for nostalgia, but I always thought the Baked Alaska parade was so incredibly cheesy.  It's one of the few aspects of "old time cruising" I don't really miss.

It got to be cheesy but years ago it was a fun spectacle that pax expected at the end of their cruise.  This was in a time when cruises lasted two weeks or more.  Everyone was dressed in their best formal attire, the lights were dimmed and the waiters appeared marching in cadence to the Radetsky March.  It was a right of passage and a grand tradition.  

Edited July 31, 2023 by CGTNORMANDIE

[Heidi13]

4 hours ago, DC225 said:

I'm all for nostalgia, but I always thought the Baked Alaska parade was so incredibly cheesy.  It's one of the few aspects of "old time cruising" I don't really miss.

 

Just wondering what time frame you are making reference to with respect to, "Old time cruising". Back in the 1970's, I actually enjoyed the parades and I used to see them every week for 4 months.

[lenquixote66]

5 hours ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

It got to be cheesy but years ago it was a fun spectacle that pax expected at the end of their cruise.  This was in a time when cruises lasted two weeks or more.  Everyone was dressed in their best formal attire, the lights were dimmed and the waiters appeared marching in cadence to the Radetsky March.  It was a right of passage and a grand tradition.  

Those were the days that nobody on the cruise wore a tee shirt daytime.Men wore button down shirts .

[CGTNORMANDIE]

1 hour ago, lenquixote66 said:

Those were the days that nobody on the cruise wore a tee shirt daytime.Men wore button down shirts .

[CGTNORMANDIE]

1 minute ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

1 hour ago, lenquixote66 said:

Those were the days that nobody on the cruise wore a tee shirt daytime.Men wore button down shirts .

Back in the time I’m talking about men wore tuxedos and evening jackets depending on the climate.  (You wouldn’t want to see Humphrey Bogart wearing a tux in Casablanca would you?)  Everyone was dressed formally and the MDR was decked out along with all the waiters.  

[lenquixote66]

2 hours ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

Back in the time I’m talking about men wore tuxedos and evening jackets depending on the climate.  (You wouldn’t want to see Humphrey Bogart wearing a tux in Casablanca would you?)  Everyone was dressed formally and the MDR was decked out along with all the waiters.  

I am older than you and vividly remember those days.

[CGTNORMANDIE]

28 minutes ago, lenquixote66 said:

I am older than you and vividly remember those days.

Yes Len you might be older than I but I started crossing and cruising in 1965…lol.  I think that makes us even. 🙂

[lenquixote66]

14 hours ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

Yes Len you might be older than I but I started crossing and cruising in 1965…lol.  I think that makes us even. 🙂

I am 100% positive that I am older than you.I was vacationing as far back as 1961 but just not cruising

[Heidi13]

Enjoying the banter.😁 I'll suggest it's a safe bet I'm younger than both you chaps, but still remember the great days of cruising. I was fortunate to catch the last 10 yrs, or so.

 

Used to dress up every evening in my heavily starched Mess Kit, enjoying great company, meals and service from professional waiters/waitresses. Proper "Silver Service" is an art and they were masters of their trade.

 

In addition to everyone dressed in their finery, who can forget the pastas, banana flambe, cherry jubilee, etc finished at the table.

[CGTNORMANDIE]

43 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

Enjoying the banter.😁 I'll suggest it's a safe bet I'm younger than both you chaps, but still remember the great days of cruising. I was fortunate to catch the last 10 yrs, or so.

 

Used to dress up every evening in my heavily starched Mess Kit, enjoying great company, meals and service from professional waiters/waitresses. Proper "Silver Service" is an art and they were masters of their trade.

 

In addition to everyone dressed in their finery, who can forget the pastas, banana flambe, cherry jubilee, etc finished at the table.

And don’t forget the flaming Crepes Suzette!  

[BruceMuzz]

Baked Alaska came our way in 1867, after the USA bought Alaska from Russia.

The dish was originally from France and called "Omelette Norwegge"

A Chef at Delmonicos in NYC ripped off the recipe and changed the name.

 

Over the past 150 years countless people on cruise ships have been seriously burned when their hair and clothing caught fire from the passing parade in the dining room.

Today's fire and safety regulations on most cruise lines prohibit flaming parades of any kind.

[donnatello]

I remember when on the Home LInes back in the 70's, after 6PM men had to wear a jacket and tie in the public rooms.....and it was enforced.

[the simpsons]

BuzzMuzz, what is your citation for 'countless people seriously burned'?  In decades of baked alaska, crepes suzette, cherries jubilee, smoking on board, et.al., how many fires have there been on cruise ships due to these practices?

[BruceMuzz]

On 3/26/2024 at 5:53 PM, the simpsons said:

BuzzMuzz, what is your citation for 'countless people seriously burned'?  In decades of baked alaska, crepes suzette, cherries jubilee, smoking on board, et.al., how many fires have there been on cruise ships due to these practices?

For the past 47 years I have managed cruise ship hotels. During that time period I have personally witnessed / been involved with around 50 cases where passengers and/or crew suffered serious burns from Baked Alaska parades, tableside cooking, etc. I could probably find another 50 “old timers” with similar numbers. We might come up with 2500 or so cases where there were serious injuries over the past 50 years. This is not “countless numbers”, but it is a significant number of injuries that should not have occurred and could be prevented.

Fires started by careless smokers happen far less often. Serious injuries from those careless smokers are even more rare.

The great majority of ship fires occur in the trash incinerator, the laundry, the galley, and the engine room. These fires almost never result in serious injury.

If I were a cruise company lawyer, I would most likely focus on fire events that cause personal injury and lead to costly lawsuits.

Those would be the Baked Alaska and tableside cooking events.

[Heidi13]

4 hours ago, BruceMuzz said:

For the past 47 years I have managed cruise ship hotels. During that time period I have personally witnessed / been involved with around 50 cases where passengers and/or crew suffered serious burns from Baked Alaska parades, tableside cooking, etc. I could probably find another 50 “old timers” with similar numbers. We might come up with 2500 or so cases where there were serious injuries over the past 50 years. This is not “countless numbers”, but it is a significant number of injuries that should not have occurred and could be prevented.

Fires started by careless smokers happen far less often. Serious injuries from those careless smokers are even more rare.

The great majority of ship fires occur in the trash incinerator, the laundry, the galley, and the engine room. These fires almost never result in serious injury.

If I were a cruise company lawyer, I would most likely focus on fire events that cause personal injury and lead to costly lawsuits.

Those would be the Baked Alaska and tableside cooking events.

 

With almost 30 yrs in Command and others as a member of fire parties from my Cadet to Chief Officer days, my experience is significantly different.

 

I recall a few issues resulting from the Baked Alaska parades, but no reportable injuries that were required to be entered in the log book. However, back in the 70's and 80's we experienced numerous, often minor fires, that were caused by careless smokers. Weekly fires, in the hotel areas, were not that uncommon on some cruises. Most were quickly extinguished with local equipment. However, I have also dealt with at least 2 bed fires resulting from smoking and those are extremely challenging to extinguish, and the occupants of said beds would not agree serious injuries are extremely rare.

 

The potential for fire is still present, but on modern tonnage the frequency and even the severity is significantly reduced to to improved structural fire protection, improvement in materials which must meet enhanced Flag/Class type approvals, improved fixed and portable fire-fighting equipment and even improvements in crew training/communications.

 

High fog systems are a huge enhancement, especially in machinery spaces. I have seen reports of fuel flashes being knocked down and extinguished in seconds, with no damage. Twenty to thirty years ago, it would have required shutting down the space and dumping CO2, with millions in damage and the potential for fire team injuries. Improvements in materials has also significantly assisted. The last few fires I experienced, in hotel areas, had no active flames. Only smouldering and lots of smoke, which is how the products performed at the type approval tests I observed.

 

Many years ago, members of the fire teams experienced burns, as the protective equipment can lead to steam burns, if not donned correctly, or it moves during use. Again, based on my experience, I can't agree with your statement that shipboard fires almost never result in serious injury, especially back in the times when flaming baked alaska parades were common.

 

Even with the technology improvements, engine room, galley and cargo fires still cause the total loss of some vessels, with the increased potential for a variety of crew injuries. Accepting some injuries have happened during baked alaska parades, I have never experienced the sounding of the crew alerts, suiting up fire parties and certainly not the total loss of a vessel. 

Back in 2006, the Star Princess fire resulted in 1 fatality and about 10 pax with smoke inhalation. Even the recent Carnival funnel fire resulted in 2 crew smoke inhalation injuries. A few months ago, I also recall reading of a fire aboard a small US cruise ship in the PNW that resulted in a crew member being hospitalised due to burns. Only a few days ago HAL lost 2 crew members, not through fire, but release of steam into a machinery space.

 

You may not have experienced many fire related injuries to your hotel crew, but rest assured, unfortunately fire related injuries still happen, as is reported by P&I Club summaries.

[BruceMuzz]

3 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

With almost 30 yrs in Command and others as a member of fire parties from my Cadet to Chief Officer days, my experience is significantly different.

 

I recall a few issues resulting from the Baked Alaska parades, but no reportable injuries that were required to be entered in the log book. However, back in the 70's and 80's we experienced numerous, often minor fires, that were caused by careless smokers. Weekly fires, in the hotel areas, were not that uncommon on some cruises. Most were quickly extinguished with local equipment. However, I have also dealt with at least 2 bed fires resulting from smoking and those are extremely challenging to extinguish, and the occupants of said beds would not agree serious injuries are extremely rare.

 

The potential for fire is still present, but on modern tonnage the frequency and even the severity is significantly reduced to to improved structural fire protection, improvement in materials which must meet enhanced Flag/Class type approvals, improved fixed and portable fire-fighting equipment and even improvements in crew training/communications.

 

High fog systems are a huge enhancement, especially in machinery spaces. I have seen reports of fuel flashes being knocked down and extinguished in seconds, with no damage. Twenty to thirty years ago, it would have required shutting down the space and dumping CO2, with millions in damage and the potential for fire team injuries. Improvements in materials has also significantly assisted. The last few fires I experienced, in hotel areas, had no active flames. Only smouldering and lots of smoke, which is how the products performed at the type approval tests I observed.

 

Many years ago, members of the fire teams experienced burns, as the protective equipment can lead to steam burns, if not donned correctly, or it moves during use. Again, based on my experience, I can't agree with your statement that shipboard fires almost never result in serious injury, especially back in the times when flaming baked alaska parades were common.

 

Even with the technology improvements, engine room, galley and cargo fires still cause the total loss of some vessels, with the increased potential for a variety of crew injuries. Accepting some injuries have happened during baked alaska parades, I have never experienced the sounding of the crew alerts, suiting up fire parties and certainly not the total loss of a vessel. 

Back in 2006, the Star Princess fire resulted in 1 fatality and about 10 pax with smoke inhalation. Even the recent Carnival funnel fire resulted in 2 crew smoke inhalation injuries. A few months ago, I also recall reading of a fire aboard a small US cruise ship in the PNW that resulted in a crew member being hospitalised due to burns. Only a few days ago HAL lost 2 crew members, not through fire, but release of steam into a machinery space.

 

You may not have experienced many fire related injuries to your hotel crew, but rest assured, unfortunately fire related injuries still happen, as is reported by P&I Club summaries.

For the first half of your 30-year career, there were far more smokers than we see today. It is only logical that there were more smoking related fires at that time. In recent years the reduced number of smokers has resulted in reduced instances of smoking-related fires.

For the second half of your 30-year career, most cruise lines had stopped the traditional Baked Alaska Parades, and instead used safer means of generating the “sparkle”. By that point in time, most propane burners had also been banned for cooking in Guest Areas, and most table-side cooking had been moved back to the galleys. What little public area cooking was done primarily on induction equipment, removing open flames and unnecessary high heat.These developments significantly reduced hotel-related fire events onboard ships.

Yes, many fires still occur today on passenger ships; primarily in galleys, laundries, incinerators, and engine spaces.

 

But to answer the original question, many of the Public Area fires we experienced in “the good old days” no longer happen due to increased restrictions on Baked Alaska Parades and tableside cooking, and decreasing numbers of smokers, along with further restrictions on where one can smoke on ships today.

[Heidi13]

On 3/28/2024 at 5:06 PM, BruceMuzz said:

For the first half of your 30-year career, there were far more smokers than we see today. It is only logical that there were more smoking related fires at that time. In recent years the reduced number of smokers has resulted in reduced instances of smoking-related fires.

For the second half of your 30-year career, most cruise lines had stopped the traditional Baked Alaska Parades, and instead used safer means of generating the “sparkle”. By that point in time, most propane burners had also been banned for cooking in Guest Areas, and most table-side cooking had been moved back to the galleys. What little public area cooking was done primarily on induction equipment, removing open flames and unnecessary high heat.These developments significantly reduced hotel-related fire events onboard ships.

Yes, many fires still occur today on passenger ships; primarily in galleys, laundries, incinerators, and engine spaces.

 

But to answer the original question, many of the Public Area fires we experienced in “the good old days” no longer happen due to increased restrictions on Baked Alaska Parades and tableside cooking, and decreasing numbers of smokers, along with further restrictions on where one can smoke on ships today.

 

Not sure why you quoted me, advising where most fires are on ships, as this is the basic information we are taught on our first ships within a couple days of boarding. Especially in my case, as my first ship was a cadet training vessel, also known as Merchant Navy Bootcamp.

 

The areas you mention are most definitely the highest risk for fires, but not always where mariners experience the most actual fires. Since I was either suited up in turnout gear & SCBA, in-charge of the deck fire party or in overall command & control, I vividly recall every actual fire I experienced onboard cruise ships, cargo ships, tankers & Ro/Pax. In about 40 yrs at sea, I have experienced zero E/R fires, zero galley fires, zero cargo fires, zero laundry fires, zero baked alaska/table side cooking fires, 1 linen locker fire, 1 rubbish fire, 2 cabin fires, and countless small fires throughout the accommodation caused by smokers.

 

Even in my last 15 years as Master, where you pointed out that the number of smokers has dropped considerably, I have only sounded the Crew Alert once, and that was for a smouldering cigarette. At that time, our entire fleet was smoke free inside, with smoking only permitted on limited areas of the outer decks. Therefore, smoking restrictions are not always effective, as that fire was in a washroom.

[chengkp75]

By far the most common cruise ship fire I've experienced (about 3 or 4) were in the incinerator silos.  For those not familiar, the incinerators are fed with shredded paper and cardboard to burn.  This material is fed by crew into a shredder, and then falls into a hopper that holds about 6 cubic meters of waste.  The fires typically happen when the crew are not totally vigilant in sorting the garbage, and a piece of metal (commonly a AA battery) gets chewed up in the shredder, causing a spark, which ignites the shredded waste in the hopper.  This smoldering paper/cardboard is then covered by more paper/cardboard, and partially smothered, so it remains a smolder.  Once the ship leaves port, and the incinerator is fired up, as the waste is fed into the incinerator, the smolder moves closer to the surface, until it gets enough oxygen to ignite, and then you've got a fire in the hopper.  The hopper is fitted with a steam smothering system which replaces the oxygen with steam to put the fire out, but then you've got 6 cubic meters of wet paper/cardboard that won't dry out, and won't burn in the incinerator.  So, we try to contain the burn, and feed the burning material into the incinerator as fast as possible, and let it burn where it is supposed to burn.