No exchanges anymore for mini bar to coffee?

[AE_Collector]

1 hour ago, Happiest when cruising said:

I have found it interesting to read about the free laundry. People actually send it out towards the end of their cruise, so they go home with all clean laundry. I don’t think that was the original intent of the perk.  Sometimes…we have created our own problems. 

Yes I’ve read that so many times. The free laundry perk for elite is such a welcome thing particularly when we have been travelling on land for days or a week or more before boarding a cruise somewhere. We have always looked at it as something to not abuse hopefully preventing any possibility of them discontinuing it. But the things I have read that people do makes it no small wonder that we have to wait for days to get it done. You never know how quick it will be until you board when you frequently get the notice on a slip of paper indicating three days for laundry due to the number of elites on board. I have long thought this to be an area that some limits would be welcome.

[kywildcatfanone]

1 hour ago, Happiest when cruising said:

I have found it interesting to read about the free laundry. People actually send it out towards the end of their cruise, so they go home with all clean laundry. I don’t think that was the original intent of the perk.  Sometimes…we have created our own problems. 

We didn't use the laundry service on our cruise last week.  But when else do I have laundry to clean except the end of the cruise?

[JimmyVWine]

12 minutes ago, ldtr said:

Keep in mind that Elites that do not buy the package (we are included in that group) may not be in the most profitable group for Princess.  If they need us to fill ships that is one thing.  If demand continues and they can fill cabins with more profitable customers then there incentive to continue with benefits will decrease.

 

Loyalty programs are really marketing programs, when they a financial benefit for the company they tend to go away.

 

In general Princess is implementing changes that its competition have already implemented from packages, to difference in price for selected cabins vs guaranty, to upgrade bidding programs, to more class oriented features starting with the Sun.  

Well said.  Loyalty programs work off of a revenue bell curve.  People start off spending low, then start to spend real money grasping at the prospect of achieving the loyalty level held by the people they met on the cruise who are on their 27th cruise.  But then, at a certain point, the spending tapers down as the "expert cruiser" knows all the hacks for saving money.  The cruise line in question then no longer covets the loyal customer who has "been there, done that, bought the t-shirt, own the hat" and who now strives to walk off the cruise bragging that their account had a zero balance.  It is proven that the most frequent visitor spends the least money, whether that be a Disney veteran, or a cruise line.  The very fact that this thread is replete with Elite people protesting that Princess is "forcing us to spend money that we don't want to spend" is proof of this.  Yes!  Princess wants people to spend money.  And if there are people who refuse to bite and vote with their feet, don't think that Princess is going to cry over losing a customer who refuses to spend money.    

[kywildcatfanone]

4 hours ago, AE_Collector said:

Are many ships sailing full? I’ve only been on two post Covid cruises but pre Covid it was getting bad on many cruises.

The Regal was full last week.  I missed having it not so crowded from our cruises last year.

[that]

1 hour ago, Happiest when cruising said:

I have found it interesting to read about the free laundry. People actually send it out towards the end of their cruise, so they go home with all clean laundry. I don’t think that was the original intent of the perk.  Sometimes…we have created our own problems. 

May I suggest perhaps guests are not going directly home. 

[Guest ldtr]

7 minutes ago, JimmyVWine said:

Well said.  Loyalty programs work off of a revenue bell curve.  People start off spending low, then start to spend real money grasping at the prospect of achieving the loyalty level held by the people they met on the cruise who are on their 27th cruise.  But then, at a certain point, the spending tapers down as the "expert cruiser" knows all the hacks for saving money.  The cruise line in question then no longer covets the loyal customer who has "been there, done that, bought the t-shirt, own the hat" and who now strives to walk off the cruise bragging that their account had a zero balance.  It is proven that the most frequent visitor spends the least money, whether that be a Disney veteran, or a cruise line.  The very fact that this thread is replete with Elite people protesting that Princess is "forcing us to spend money that we don't want to spend" is proof of this.  Yes!  Princess wants people to spend money.  And if there are people who refuse to bite and vote with their feet, don't think that Princess is going to cry over losing a customer who refuses to spend money.    

From what I have seen those customers who complain about Princess prices and values are most likely going to be surprised when they see the costs on other lines.  A bit different for those moving over level of service, but in general Princess is one of the best values out there in mostly adult cruising, even with the changes.

[Guest ldtr]

6 hours ago, caribill said:

 

Why?

 

They have been cutting benefits to their best customers left and right without any replacements.

 

What makes you think they would not cut more without any meaningful replacement?

What Elite benefits have they been cutting left and right?  They replaced free Internet minutes with a discounted unlimited, at the same time they added the discount for excursions.  A change that many prefer. They have done away with the coffee program which many Elites used, but the program benefit was the minibar which still exists.  So the change was only a reduction in swap choices. 

 

Mostly they have added alternatives that reduce the value of the benefits if one chooses to purchase the alternatives but in general the benefits are still there as an alternative.

 

The Loyalty OBC was not part of the Elite program, but that is pretty much the only thing that was removed for their best customers.

[Happiest when cruising]

29 minutes ago, kywildcatfanone said:

We didn't use the laundry service on our cruise last week.  But when else do I have laundry to clean except the end of the cruise?

You would leave it to do yourself at home, not send it out onboard at the end of the cruise. I do understand many long voyages where it makes sense to send it out midway, or something. At the end, just so you don’t have to do it when you get home seems unfair. 

[Happiest when cruising]

29 minutes ago, that said:

May I suggest perhaps guests are not going directly home. 

Sure…there might be a few, just like those that might have been on a land vacation pre cruise. I am talking about the braggers who just feel it was a perk, so they want to get everything they can out of it. 

[caribill]

10 minutes ago, ldtr said:

What Elite benefits have they been cutting left and right?  They replaced free Internet minutes with a discounted unlimited, at the same time they added the discount for excursions.  A change that many prefer.

The free internet minutes that no longer exist would have sufficed (as they always have) will now cost us $495 on an upcoming two segment cruise.

 

And I find more $$$ saved with independent excursions than a 10% discount on Princess excursions. As an example: A 7 hour private tour with 19 people in one port on an upcoming port will cost $164/person not including lunch. The equivalent Princess 7 hour tour (including lunch) with up to 45 people would cost $297/person after the 10% discount. The lunch on a more crowded tour is not worth paying $133 more per person to Princess after the discount. Thus, this benefit is not worth anything to us.

 

These two examples (Internet, excursions) replace free benefits with  benefits that only apply if you give more $$$ to Princess.

 

10 minutes ago, ldtr said:

They have done away with the coffee program which many Elites used, but the program benefit was the minibar which still exists.  So the change was only a reduction in swap choices. 

A loss of a swap benefit that many people used.

 

10 minutes ago, ldtr said:

The Loyalty OBC was not part of the Elite program, but that is pretty much the only thing that was removed for their best customers.

 

As I indicated in my original comments, the benefits cuts were to their best customers. So the loss of the Loyalty OBC is just saying loyalty no longer matter to Princess.

 

Another loss (and one that basically cost Princess no significant outlay of $$$) was the celebration of having reached 500 days on Princess cruises and 750 days on Princess cruises.

[billco]

2 hours ago, PescadoAmarillo said:

I can’t imagine putting clothing that’s been washed by the Princess laundry away at home without first washing it with my detergent and softener and no strangers’ skivvies. 

Much of ours gets put away until the next cruise.

[kywildcatfanone]

29 minutes ago, Happiest when cruising said:

You would leave it to do yourself at home, not send it out onboard at the end of the cruise. I do understand many long voyages where it makes sense to send it out midway, or something. At the end, just so you don’t have to do it when you get home seems unfair. 

It's a perk for loyalty.  Also, I might not be going home right away.  No reason not to use a perk that is offered, especially when they are being taken away regularly now.

[billco]

3 hours ago, JimmyVWine said:

Hadn't thought about that, but I'll bet you are right.  While the classes are not "two per day" the way the desserts are, I'll be the number of takers each day is a two-digit number.

My recent experience taking Yoga classes on the Discovery Princess was Day 1 & 2 was close to capacity (20 I believe), because people had a package. The Aerobics Room is fairly small.The remaining days dropped to very few, when people had to start paying. Not many were going to pay $30 for a 30 minute basic yoga class. In the past, one could take a fitness class as part of a package depending on the number of sea days. I think I remember paying $80 plus 18% gratuity for 5 classes. Those classes seldom had more than 5-6 people. Last year on the Enchanted I was the only one in the class. The instructor was the only personal trainer on board. He hurt his back, so he had to give my money back. Discovery had 3 trainers under a new contract with Xponential Fitness, Everything was the same. When they aren't holding classes they are trying to sell something in their seminars like orthotics or personal training.

[Guest ldtr]

29 minutes ago, caribill said:

The free internet minutes that no longer exist would have sufficed (as they always have) will now cost us $495 on an upcoming two segment cruise.

 

And I find more $$$ saved with independent excursions than a 10% discount on Princess excursions. As an example: A 7 hour private tour with 19 people in one port on an upcoming port will cost $164/person not including lunch. The equivalent Princess 7 hour tour (including lunch) with up to 45 people would cost $297/person after the 10% discount. The lunch on a more crowded tour is not worth paying $133 more per person to Princess after the discount. Thus, this benefit is not worth anything to us.

 

These two examples (Internet, excursions) replace free benefits with  benefits that only apply if you give more $$$ to Princess.

 

A loss of a swap benefit that many people used.

 

 

As I indicated in my original comments, the benefits cuts were to their best customers. So the loss of the Loyalty OBC is just saying loyalty no longer matter to Princess.

 

Another loss (and one that basically cost Princess no significant outlay of $$$) was the celebration of having reached 500 days on Princess cruises and 750 days on Princess cruises.

Those are your choices.  The benefits are still there.  Many still use them.

 

 

[AE_Collector]

18 minutes ago, kywildcatfanone said:

It's a perk for loyalty.  Also, I might not be going home right away.  No reason not to use a perk that is offered, especially when they are being taken away regularly now.

A perk that you run the risk of having us all lose by over using it. The laundry done onboard for us soon after boarding where we were travelling for a week before boarding as well as the laundry done several times while on a long cruise is worth so much more than laundry done just before disembarking that could have been done at home. But laundry is laundry to Princess and having to do too much of it threatens the perk for us all. The four biggest perks to me were captains circle loyalty OBC (Gone), Free Internet (No longer a free option), elite minibar (the squeeze is on) and laundry. Laundry is the only one of these four that hasn’t been touched … yet.

[kywildcatfanone]

I stated that on my recent cruise I didn't use it at all, but there is nothing wrong with using it.  I was responding to the comment that it's really only needed at then of a cruise unless it's a long cruise.

 

Many people also avoid airport luggage charges by using carry on only, therefore less clothes and more laundry.

[caribill]

43 minutes ago, ldtr said:

Those are your choices.  The benefits are still there.  Many still use them.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, caribill said:

The free internet minutes that no longer exist would have sufficed (as they always have) will now cost us $495 on an upcoming two segment cruise.

 

 

 

I am not sure that paying $495 I never had to spend before is a benefit.

 

But, you are correct. To use the Internet we will choose to pay $495 for this benefit.

[AE_Collector]

There is no doubt that the internet is better now than it used to be. But cell providers and some home internet providers have no problem keeping track of how many GB of data you’ve used. The new system should allow them to give you an account of x GB per day of the cruise and then it quits working if you use it all up leaving you to choose if you want to buy some more or not. A small basic internet allowance shouldn't be hard to provide as a replacement for the old package of minutes for Platinum/Elite. 

[Guest ldtr]

1 hour ago, caribill said:

 

 

I am not sure that paying $495 I never had to spend before is a benefit.

 

But, you are correct. To use the Internet we will choose to pay $495 for this benefit.

Then do not buy it.  Do what some do connect in port.  If you really feel that the benefit is gone why not pay what those that do not have the benefit and pay $990 for your Internet instead of taking advantage of your $495 benefit.

[Guest ldtr]

35 minutes ago, AE_Collector said:

There is no doubt that the internet is better now than it used to be. But cell providers and some home internet providers have no problem keeping track of how many GB of data you’ve used. The new system should allow them to give you an account of x GB per day of the cruise and then it quits working if you use it all up leaving you to choose if you want to buy some more or not. A small basic internet allowance shouldn't be hard to provide as a replacement for the old package of minutes for Platinum/Elite. 

Of course there systems that were set up to track use.  The system Princess is using does not.   Adding an additional tracking feature costs, which would only be used by those using the Elite benefit. The question then is how many would really use it.  I suspect more people would complain now if they took away the discount and replaced it with a free number of minutes or GB.

[caribill]

37 minutes ago, AE_Collector said:

There is no doubt that the internet is better now than it used to be. But cell providers and some home internet providers have no problem keeping track of how many GB of data you’ve used. The new system should allow them to give you an account of x GB per day of the cruise and then it quits working if you use it all up leaving you to choose if you want to buy some more or not. A small basic internet allowance shouldn't be hard to provide as a replacement for the old package of minutes for Platinum/Elite. 

 

Agree.

 

The value of the free Internet minutes on a 7 day cruise was about 50 cents/minute or $75.00.

[caribill]

7 minutes ago, ldtr said:

Then do not buy it.  Do what some do connect in port.  If you really feel that the benefit is gone why not pay what those that do not have the benefit and pay $990 for your Internet instead of taking advantage of your $495 benefit.

 

Yes, that is why we pay thousands of dollars to cruise to exotic locations around the world.

 

So we can spend shore time inside a local Internet cafe to access the Internet.

[Guest ldtr]

3 minutes ago, caribill said:

 

Yes, that is why we pay thousands of dollars to exotic locations around the world.

 

So we can spend shore time inside a local Internet cafe to access the Internet.

 

 

If the minutes were fine then certainly there are enough minutes waiting when you leave or board ship to do the limited amount of connecting that you had to do.

 

Well you certainly have not refused to accept the $495 benefit.  Clearly if you are so upset about paying you should either refuse to buy, or refuse to take the benefit and pay the full amount.

 

The benefit is there.  You may not like the form but the benefit is still there along with the added excursion discount that you also do not like. 

Edited April 4, 2023 by ldtr

[billco]

2 hours ago, caribill said:

The free internet minutes that no longer exist would have sufficed (as they always have) will now cost us $495 on an upcoming two segment cruise.

 

And I find more $$$ saved with independent excursions than a 10% discount on Princess excursions. As an example: A 7 hour private tour with 19 people in one port on an upcoming port will cost $164/person not including lunch. The equivalent Princess 7 hour tour (including lunch) with up to 45 people would cost $297/person after the 10% discount. The lunch on a more crowded tour is not worth paying $133 more per person to Princess after the discount. Thus, this benefit is not worth anything to us.

 

These two examples (Internet, excursions) replace free benefits with  benefits that only apply if you give more $$$ to Princess.

 

A loss of a swap benefit that many people used.

 

 

As I indicated in my original comments, the benefits cuts were to their best customers. So the loss of the Loyalty OBC is just saying loyalty no longer matter to Princess.

 

Another loss (and one that basically cost Princess no significant outlay of $$$) was the celebration of having reached 500 days on Princess cruises and 750 days on Princess cruises.

Perhaps the bean counters at Princess looked at your examples and decided that maybe you aren't their best customers. Maybe the best customers are the ones willing to pay the inflated costs of packages, Princess excursions, and internet. They aren't making these changes to be mean, they're doing it to increase the bottom line. Only time will tell if they are right, but by that time many of their former best customers will have died off or be too old to cruise anyway.

[AE_Collector]

Removal of a low usage option is just like the minibar coffee card swap elimination. Removal of an option that some couldn’t care less about while others really feel the change. The more options we have the more likely we are to find one that works great for us and keeps us coming back for more.