Cruising Norwegian Cruise Line with a Misdemeanor

[Ckdc12]

I’m going on an Alaska Cruise (leaving Seattle) with one stop in Victoria BC at the end of September. I have a misdemeanor (PCS) I received back in 2019. I didn’t know of Canada’s law until recently and I want to know if I would be denied boarding. I read a few forums where people would just be asked to not get off in Canada, but I wanted to know if I would be denied entry on the ship IN Seattle. I do not mind not getting off in Victoria, seeing that we’ll only be there for 4 hours, but if anyone could give me some insight on what will happen and what I can do, that would be amazing. 
 

as I said, I don’t mind not getting off in Canada. I just want to ensure I will not be denied boarding on the ship, being that the trip was so expensive I don’t want the money to go to waste

[Heidi13]

Welcome to cruise critic.

 

This subject has been discussed many times in other threads. The cruise lines do not have access to the criminal record database, so will have no knowledge of your issue, so no reason to deny boarding.

 

When the ship departs from the final US port, they send a copy of the manifest to Canadian Border Services. They review and identify any concerns. I expect you are inadmissible to Canada, but that is at the discretion of the reviewing officer. Generally, they employ 3 options:

 - Take no action

 - Request the vessel to restrict shore leave

 - Request the vessel to restrict shore leave and require a personal interview aboard the vessel. On completion of the interview you may be permitted ashore, you may be confined to the ship, or you can be removed from the vessel in restraints. All depends on the offense and attending officer.

 

Just by being aboard the vessel, you have already entered Canada and if inadmissible, due to a criminal record, you will have to suffer any consequences. BTW - the removal in restraints is the least common and usually has outstanding warrants.

[Coral]

17 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

Welcome to cruise critic.

 

This subject has been discussed many times in other threads. The cruise lines do not have access to the criminal record database, so will have no knowledge of your issue, so no reason to deny boarding.

 

When the ship departs from the final US port, they send a copy of the manifest to Canadian Border Services. They review and identify any concerns. I expect you are inadmissible to Canada, but that is at the discretion of the reviewing officer. Generally, they employ 3 options:

 - Take no action

 - Request the vessel to restrict shore leave

 - Request the vessel to restrict shore leave and require a personal interview aboard the vessel. On completion of the interview you may be permitted ashore, you may be confined to the ship, or you can be removed from the vessel in restraints. All depends on the offense and attending officer.

 

Just by being aboard the vessel, you have already entered Canada and if inadmissible, due to a criminal record, you will have to suffer any consequences. BTW - the removal in restraints is the least common and usually has outstanding warrants.

Thanks for the best explanation I have read on this.

[GTJ]

On 8/31/2023 at 1:10 PM, Heidi13 said:

Generally, they employ 3 options:

 - Take no action

 - Request the vessel to restrict shore leave

 - Request the vessel to restrict shore leave and require a personal interview aboard the vessel.

The "interview" is good, as it would permit a passenger to make a defense. For example, "I am not a convict, and you're confusing me with someone else." Such an interview is not a court of law, and there's no assurance that the reviewing officer would make a good, fair, or correct decision, but at least there's an opportunity for the passenger to speak and explain. The middle option, shore leave restriction decided summarily without interview, seems to be lacking in due process.

[Heidi13]

16 minutes ago, GTJ said:

The "interview" is good, as it would permit a passenger to make a defense. For example, "I am not a convict, and you're confusing me with someone else." Such an interview is not a court of law, and there's no assurance that the reviewing officer would make a good, fair, or correct decision, but at least there's an opportunity for the passenger to speak and explain. The middle option, shore leave restriction decided summarily without interview, seems to be lacking in due process.

 

Affirmative, my assumption is the interview is similar to presenting yourself at the border and provides a better ability to verify the pax identity and criminal record. The ship's Master or Officers are not present, so are not privy to the content.

 

I'll suggest the Border Services Officer is not so much making a correct, good or fair decision, more that the Officer is conducting a risk assessment on letting the pax enter Canada. If they have a criminal record, such as drugs or drunk driving, they are inadmissible to Canada. Therefore, they have entered Canada illegally and should be removed from the ship for deportation back to the US. 

 

Therefore, based on a risk assessment, if the attending officer permits the pax to remain onboard, I'll suggest that is a fair decision, based on their experience.

[1025cruise]

Your issue is whether or not the misdemeanor is considered a felony in Canada. If it's a felony, you will not be allowed in Canada. The biggest one that people get called on is DUI/DWI.

[SomewhereGirl]

Back in 2018 I was sharing a suite with some family members.  We were sailing out of NYC to Canada/NE.  The day before arriving in Halifax one family member received a letter in the cabin instructing them to go to specific location on the ship the next morning at a specific time.  I don't recall the details of the letter.  This person went down, talked to CBP agents, and returned to the cabin.  He was not allowed to get off the ship in the Canadian ports.  I assume the manifest was not transmitted to Canadian authorities very long before arrival in Halifax.  Again, this was years ago.  I don't think it was a DUI.

At this late date, isn't the money gone whether you are denied boarding or not?

 

 

[Heidi13]

5 hours ago, 1025cruise said:

Your issue is whether or not the misdemeanor is considered a felony in Canada. If it's a felony, you will not be allowed in Canada. The biggest one that people get called on is DUI/DWI.

 

In Canada, we do not use the US terms misdemeanor and felony, as we use summary or indictable offenses. We have numerous offenses that are indictable, basically all serious offenses, which include impaired driving, possession of a controlled substance, depending on quantity and type of drug and even some assault charges. 

[Heidi13]

3 hours ago, SomewhereGirl said:

Back in 2018 I was sharing a suite with some family members.  We were sailing out of NYC to Canada/NE.  The day before arriving in Halifax one family member received a letter in the cabin instructing them to go to specific location on the ship the next morning at a specific time.  I don't recall the details of the letter.  This person went down, talked to CBP agents, and returned to the cabin.  He was not allowed to get off the ship in the Canadian ports.  I assume the manifest was not transmitted to Canadian authorities very long before arrival in Halifax.  Again, this was years ago.  I don't think it was a DUI.

At this late date, isn't the money gone whether you are denied boarding or not?

 

The ship's manifest is normally sent 3 to 4 days before arrival, when on ocean passage. When coastal cruising it must be sent immediately after departure from the last foreign port, if within the 3 to 4 day window. Manifest can't be sent until departure from the last port due to the possibility of changes.

 

Impaired driving is what most Americans focus on when coming to Canada, but it is only 1 of the offenses we treat as indictable.

 

You cannot be denied boarding for a criminal record when boarding in a US port and visiting Canada, as the cruise line does not have access to this information. When your family member was requested to meet with Canadian Border Agents, the ship is not advised why they request a meeting, and is again not advised of the reasons for any decision. In your situation, the ship would have been advised the pax is prohibited to go ashore, they are not told why. 

[Coral]

7 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

The ship's manifest is normally sent 3 to 4 days before arrival, when on ocean passage. When coastal cruising it must be sent immediately after departure from the last foreign port, if within the 3 to 4 day window. Manifest can't be sent until departure from the last port due to the possibility of changes.

 

Impaired driving is what most Americans focus on when coming to Canada, but it is only 1 of the offenses we treat as indictable.

 

You cannot be denied boarding for a criminal record when boarding in a US port and visiting Canada, as the cruise line does not have access to this information. When your family member was requested to meet with Canadian Border Agents, the ship is not advised why they request a meeting, and is again not advised of the reasons for any decision. In your situation, the ship would have been advised the pax is prohibited to go ashore, they are not told why. 

Sort of off subject....... First, I have no police record. And am pretty much a boring individual.

 

I did a TA from London to FLL last November. When I went to exit in FLL, my medallion beeped getting off the ship. They pulled me aside. There were 3 pages of people with what I assume was COVID that looked like an EXCEL document - I say COVID as our ship had a ton of COVID and I assume they had to be taken off separately. I was not on that page but then there was 1 page with maybe 10 names on it in a larger table. I was on that page!

 

They asked me to step aside and someone would come to the ship. I was sort of worried due to my flight and sort of said such. There was someone from the Cruise Director staff who asked security if they could take me off to meet with whoever and was promptly told "no". Eventually, someone from the Guest Services desk got me and took me off to meet with Customs. They asked for my ID - I pointed to my name on the one sheet with the 10 names that was in a table. The Customs individual said "I don't care about the people on this sheet" and then they let me go. I have no clue what happened!!!!!!

 

It was a very weird experience and to this day - I have no clue why my name was on that sheet and why they let me go. Again, I am a pretty boring person. I wish I knew.

[1025cruise]

3 hours ago, Coral said:

Sort of off subject....... First, I have no police record. And am pretty much a boring individual.

 

I did a TA from London to FLL last November. When I went to exit in FLL, my medallion beeped getting off the ship. They pulled me aside. There were 3 pages of people with what I assume was COVID that looked like an EXCEL document - I say COVID as our ship had a ton of COVID and I assume they had to be taken off separately. I was not on that page but then there was 1 page with maybe 10 names on it in a larger table. I was on that page!

 

They asked me to step aside and someone would come to the ship. I was sort of worried due to my flight and sort of said such. There was someone from the Cruise Director staff who asked security if they could take me off to meet with whoever and was promptly told "no". Eventually, someone from the Guest Services desk got me and took me off to meet with Customs. They asked for my ID - I pointed to my name on the one sheet with the 10 names that was in a table. The Customs individual said "I don't care about the people on this sheet" and then they let me go. I have no clue what happened!!!!!!

 

It was a very weird experience and to this day - I have no clue why my name was on that sheet and why they let me go. Again, I am a pretty boring person. I wish I knew.

You do a decent amount of shopping?

[Coral]

3 minutes ago, 1025cruise said:

You do a decent amount of shopping?

I think a $10 coconut bowl in Spain.

 

I assume it was customs, it could have been immigration. At that point, I have no idea who is what. It was a uniformed individual. It was the Wed before Thanksgiving so I was worried about missing my flight.

Edited September 2, 2023 by Coral

[Ferry_Watcher]

On 8/30/2023 at 5:20 PM, Ckdc12 said:

but I wanted to know if I would be denied entry on the ship IN Seattle.

 

I work check-in at Seattle's Pier 91 (you are leaving from Pier 66 on your NCL ship).  I can say that no passengers are denied boarding for past legal mistakes.

I would consider staying on board the ship while in Victoria, and if your ship stops in Skagway, I would skip taking the train excursion that crosses the boarder into the Yukon.  In talking to a van driver on my visit in May '23, he did tell me that he has had passengers denied by the Canadians. 

[Heidi13]

On 9/2/2023 at 4:55 AM, Coral said:

Sort of off subject....... First, I have no police record. And am pretty much a boring individual.

 

I did a TA from London to FLL last November. When I went to exit in FLL, my medallion beeped getting off the ship. They pulled me aside. There were 3 pages of people with what I assume was COVID that looked like an EXCEL document - I say COVID as our ship had a ton of COVID and I assume they had to be taken off separately. I was not on that page but then there was 1 page with maybe 10 names on it in a larger table. I was on that page!

 

They asked me to step aside and someone would come to the ship. I was sort of worried due to my flight and sort of said such. There was someone from the Cruise Director staff who asked security if they could take me off to meet with whoever and was promptly told "no". Eventually, someone from the Guest Services desk got me and took me off to meet with Customs. They asked for my ID - I pointed to my name on the one sheet with the 10 names that was in a table. The Customs individual said "I don't care about the people on this sheet" and then they let me go. I have no clue what happened!!!!!!

 

It was a very weird experience and to this day - I have no clue why my name was on that sheet and why they let me go. Again, I am a pretty boring person. I wish I knew.

 

Back during my coaching days, we were required to submit to a criminal record check, which is normally just submitting a form with your details. However, in my case, I was always requested to stop by an RCMP detachment for fingerprints.

 

While they would never outright state why, it was suggested that I may share the same DoB with somebody on the nasty list. Since they can change their name, I was eliminated with fingerprints.

 

Could be something similar.

[AZDuck]

What would happen if an American cruise passenger with a DUI conviction 25 years ago was on a one way SB cruise from Whittier to Vancouver BC and taking the cruise ship transfer directly to the airport to fly home to the US the same day they disembarked in Vancouver BC? Would they be detained by CBSA at disembarkation or allowed to go straight home as planned? Asking for a friend. 

[Heidi13]

3 hours ago, Dereknadz said:

What would happen if an American cruise passenger with a DUI conviction 25 years ago was on a one way SB cruise from Whittier to Vancouver BC and taking the cruise ship transfer directly to the airport to fly home to the US the same day they disembarked in Vancouver BC? Would they be detained by CBSA at disembarkation or allowed to go straight home as planned? Asking for a friend. 

 

The conviction makes the pax inadmissible to Canada, so you are at the discretion of the Border Agent who reviews the ship's manifest, once it is sent after departing the final US port. Similar options are possible, as for arriving in Victoria - no action taken, or the ship is requested to hold pax onboard for an interview.

 

If an interview is requested, your situation is again at the discretion of the Border Agent, who has the option of permitting you to leave for the airport and exit Canada, or since you illegally entered Canada, you could be detained and deported.

[AZDuck]

Thanks. We've flown into BC for ski trips twice in the past 5 years and never had an issue with Canadian immigration. I guess cruising is different since they have time to study the passenger list in advance of arrival. We spoke to CBSA today and were told that if you haven't been convicted in the last 10 years and bring your state police background check and FBI rap sheet showing no arrests for anything since the original offense 25 years ago, it shows you put some effort into proving that you're rehabilitated and the Canadian Border agent will in all likelihood let you pass since you're going straight to the airport to fly home anyway as evidenced by your plane tickets. Deported or allowed to pass through, it sounds like you end up on a plane heading home after your cruise regardless. Mission accomplished. 

[GTJ]

10 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

If an interview is requested, your situation is again at the discretion of the Border Agent, who has the option of permitting you to leave for the airport and exit Canada, or since you illegally entered Canada, you could be detained and deported.

What are the distinctions between being permitted to exit Canada and being deported from Canada? Is it that in the case of deportation the cruise line has the legal obligation to remove the passenger from Canada back to the country of origin (as a consequence of having brought an inadmissible person to Canada)?

[Heidi13]

4 minutes ago, GTJ said:

What are the distinctions between being permitted to exit Canada and being deported from Canada? Is it that in the case of deportation the cruise line has the legal obligation to remove the passenger from Canada back to the country of origin (as a consequence of having brought an inadmissible person to Canada)?

 

The Master or Officers aren't advised of any decision by Border Services. While I haven't personally dealt with this specific issue, if deported, I expect the pax will be escorted off the ship by Canada Border Services. In Vancouver, I suspect they could be taken to any of our land border crossings, or YVR.

 

If deportation is not warranted, based on risk assessment, the pax will be requested to head directly to YVR and depart Canada. The ship will only be advised the pax is free to proceed ashore.

[Coral]

9 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

The Master or Officers aren't advised of any decision by Border Services. While I haven't personally dealt with this specific issue, if deported, I expect the pax will be escorted off the ship by Canada Border Services. In Vancouver, I suspect they could be taken to any of our land border crossings, or YVR.

 

If deportation is not warranted, based on risk assessment, the pax will be requested to head directly to YVR and depart Canada. The ship will only be advised the pax is free to proceed ashore.

My TA had a client and dealt with this once (on the East Coast). They flew in 2 days early into Canada, were stopped by Customs Officers and instructed they had to fly back to the US in 24 hours. Their cruise would have embarked in 48 hours and they were not allowed to get on the ship.

[AZDuck]

I've looked into this more, even spoke to CBSA and a Canadian Immigration lawyer. The law changed in late 2018 making DUI a serious crime in Canada, the equivalent of a felony in the US.

 

The result of Bill -C46 essentially made it so you're barred for life from ever entering Canada if you ever had a DUI in your lifetime, no matter how long ago. Prior to this 2018 rule you were automatically deemed rehabilitated if more than 10 years had passed since completing the sentencing requirements of the DUI. After the December 18th, 2018 rule change, overnight tens of millions of people were no longer allowed to travel to Canada for business, pleasure or seeking refuge causing enormous unintended consequences. CBSA did not immediately enforce the rule changes.

 

Then in early 2019 Canada's Immigration Minister made a public statement in the media that anyone deemed rehabilitated for an impaired driving offense outside Canada before December 2018 would not need to formally apply for rehabilitation. They would be "grandfathered" to the previous rule of being automatically "deemed rehabilitated" if the sentencing requirements had been completed more than 10 years prior to December 2018. A conviction less than 10 years before 2018 would be inadmissible and require applying for rehabilitation after waiting 5 years since sentencing completion. This seems to be a relatively easy filing one could do themselves without a lawyer, but costs $200 and takes about 8 months to process. However, once approved it permanently resolves the issue. It seems that if the DUI occurred within the last 5 years you're SOL and best to not attempt any travel to or through Canada to avoid a potentially embarrassing situation.

 

To summarize: Legally the 2018 rule bans you from admission to Canada for life if you ever had a DUI conviction. However, as policy the current administration is following the pre-2018 rule of automatic eligibility for entry with an old DUI if 10 years have passed since the sentencing requirements were completed. This is grandfathered to convictions prior to the December 18th, 2018 rule change.  This means if your DUI sentencing requirements were completed prior to 2008 and you've had no other criminal convictions you should have no issues travelling to or through Canada.

 

This policy could change if there is an administrative change of thinking so it's best to consult with a Canadian immigration attorney if you feel this may affect you personally.

 

Hope this helps anyone who is losing sleep over this. 

Edited September 9, 2023 by Dereknadz

[Coral]

50 minutes ago, Dereknadz said:

I've looked into this more, even spoke to CBSA and a Canadian Immigration lawyer. The law changed in late 2018 making DUI a serious crime in Canada, the equivalent of a felony in the US.

 

The result of Bill -C46 essentially made it so you're barred for life from ever entering Canada if you ever had a DUI in your lifetime, no matter how long ago. Prior to this 2018 rule you were automatically deemed rehabilitated if more than 10 years had passed since completing the sentencing requirements of the DUI. After the December 18th, 2018 rule change, overnight tens of millions of people were no longer allowed to travel to Canada for business, pleasure or seeking refuge causing enormous unintended consequences. CBSA did not immediately enforce the rule changes.

 

Even before the 2018 rule - there were issues. There was a previous US President who had to get special permission to enter Canada due to a 1976 DUI conviction. His presidency happened more than 10 years after 1976.

[Heidi13]

1 hour ago, Dereknadz said:

I've looked into this more, even spoke to CBSA and a Canadian Immigration lawyer. The law changed in late 2018 making DUI a serious crime in Canada, the equivalent of a felony in the US.

 

The result of Bill -C46 essentially made it so you're barred for life from ever entering Canada if you ever had a DUI in your lifetime, no matter how long ago. Prior to this 2018 rule you were automatically deemed rehabilitated if more than 10 years had passed since completing the sentencing requirements of the DUI. After the December 18th, 2018 rule change, overnight tens of millions of people were no longer allowed to travel to Canada for business, pleasure or seeking refuge causing enormous unintended consequences. CBSA did not immediately enforce the rule changes.

 

Then in early 2019 Canada's Immigration Minister made a public statement in the media that anyone deemed rehabilitated for an impaired driving offense outside Canada before December 2018 would not need to formally apply for rehabilitation. They would be "grandfathered" to the previous rule of being automatically "deemed rehabilitated" if the sentencing requirements had been completed more than 10 years prior to December 2018. A conviction less than 10 years before 2018 would be inadmissible and require applying for rehabilitation after waiting 5 years since sentencing completion. This seems to be a relatively easy filing one could do themselves without a lawyer, but costs $200 and takes about 8 months to process. However, once approved it permanently resolves the issue. It seems that if the DUI occurred within the last 5 years you're SOL and best to not attempt any travel to or through Canada to avoid a potentially embarrassing situation.

 

To summarize: Legally the 2018 rule bans you from admission to Canada for life if you ever had a DUI conviction. However, as policy the current administration is following the pre-2018 rule of automatic eligibility for entry with an old DUI if 10 years have passed since the sentencing requirements were completed. This is grandfathered to convictions prior to the December 18th, 2018 rule change.  This means if your DUI sentencing requirements were completed prior to 2008 and you've had no other criminal convictions you should have no issues travelling to or through Canada.

 

This policy could change if there is an administrative change of thinking so it's best to consult with a Canadian immigration attorney if you feel this may affect you personally.

 

Hope this helps anyone who is losing sleep over this. 

 

Impaired driving has been an indictable offense in Canada well before 2018. From memory, Bill C-46 introduced driving under the influence of drugs, just prior to the legalisation of pot. It also made the penalties for impaired driving harsher and gave police officers more tools.

 

When it comes to determining eligibility to enter Canada, I believe the relevant Act is the Canadian Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, Section 36.

[AZDuck]

1 minute ago, Heidi13 said:

 

Impaired driving has been an indictable offense in Canada well before 2018. From memory, Bill C-46 introduced driving under the influence of drugs, just prior to the legalisation of pot. It also made the penalties for impaired driving harsher and gave police officers more tools.

 

When it comes to determining eligibility to enter Canada, I believe the relevant Act is the Canadian Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, Section 36.

Prior to 2018 it was punishable by up to 5 years in prison, then it became 10 years which also affected immigration law. My point is prior to the 2018 ruling you were deemed rehabilitated if 10 years had passed with no other convictions and would be admissible to Canada and it appears CBSA are still following that general guideline. I don't want to debate Canadian law I'm just tryin to help out my fellow Americans who are concerned about cruising Alaska with 15+ year old DUIs. 

[Urban trekker]

What about many Canadians who smoked a little weed back in the 60's and 70's and were caught and can't enter the US even to this day legally without applying for an pardon.