Reviews of Oceania excursions

[pinotlover]

53 minutes ago, Ecurb447 said:

OCEANIA HAS BOMBED OUT on seamlessly offering excursions. I'm going to Japan April 1 on the Riviera.

I booked this cruise one year before sailing.

I was never notified at that time BY OCEANIA that excursions could be booked 365 days before departure. Hello, email?

Not knowing this, I started to wait to book excursions 6 months before. It seemed reasonable.

I was immediately closed out at 6 port locations.  
At this juncture, I'm wait listed on 3 excursions with 3 months to go.

And cannot find any private tours available at those 3 locations.

 

Not comforting! Not impressed! Not happy!

O, can't find a few guides at any cost?

I’m on that cruise. Have patience.

 

Have you noticed that in the last two weeks our cruise went from totally waitlisted to availability in most all categories except the top three. FP is 1/2/24. Give it a week for all those cancellations to get updated into the system and you’ll see plenty of tour availability.

 

I haven’t a clue as to reason, but the lookie Lou’s (LL) really pounded this cruise. Now they’re bailing out. I’m expecting Oceania to soon throw this cruise on massive sale. 
 

I’ll make some here mad, but I’m glad Oceania is moving to a 150 day FP date, so to get rid of the LL early. Imo, most of those cancellations knew months ago they were bailing, but we’re too impolite ( nice word) to cancel earlier. 🤬 Good Riddance to 90 day prior FP dates! 
 

Rant over. Check the tour status again on 1/8. Guessing things will have changed dramatically.

 

I’ll repeat myself from an earlier thread, Oceania needs to block the LL from spending their SM dollars before FP! 😤. The LL are castrating  the system! 😡

Edited December 31, 2023 by pinotlover

[azdrydock]

On 12/26/2023 at 11:46 PM, Jamietravelstheworld said:

One other factor of note. On my recent Asia/Australia cruise, I believe Intercruises (https://www.intercruises.com/what-we-do/shore-excursions/) was the subcontractor who provided the shore excursions. So it may not matter what cruise company you're on, if your ship is docking at a port where Intercruises is the contractee, they may be who provides the ship's shore excursions. Looking at their website, it seems they provide shore excursions for a good portion of the world.

I was on the same cruise and it was probably the worst overall excursion experiences we have encountered.

 

We boarded in Hong Kong and found a letter stating that 3 of our excursions were cancelled. First one was  to Hanoi 2 days later and Oceania could not provide a substitute, There was no way we could book a private excursion due to the horrendous internet. We also received a list of changes that  downgraded many of our excursions. For example places that we were supposed to stop at were now listed as pass by.  When we arrived in Singapore we received another cancellation letter  and more downgraded excursions. Why couldn't they notify us on the previous segment?  One of the excursions included a wine tasting stop. The guide told us on the bus to expect a $20 voucher to be used for wine tasting or a visit to the coffee shop. When we got there local guide informed us that this tour only included a generic wine tasting class. Our guide told me that he thought this change was specific for us as she does this tour on a regular basis.  We had one bus that the air conditioner was so loud you couldn't hear the guide another that had a transmission problem.

Another things to note is the the free port shuttle been replaced with free only if provided by the port for free. One port the CD announced they could not provide free free shuttles due to a port agreement with the local taxis. Response from a cab driver was the port is prohibited from providing shuttles but the cruise lines can charter shuttles. Docked next to the QE2 in Melbourne with Intercruises shuttle for QE2. Oceania passengers could take the train or walk to city center. My guess is Intercruises was chosen simply because it was the lowest bidder. Unlike other cruise lines O doesn't have passenger surveys so they don't know or care about the quality of the cruise

 

Pre excursion meeting place was the Regatta lounge.

First few ports they gave us a numbered ticket for your excursion when you arrived and told everyone to wait until their number was called before heading for your bus . Guess what, many people took their tickets and immediately left for the good seats and creating congestion along the way. Later on they decided to hand out the tickets just before the busses were ready, but many of still left as soon as they got tickets. Most cruise lines have save someone checking tickets when leaving the auditorium.   On tender days the majority of the excursions left at the same time and anyone wanting to go ashore was required to get a tender ticket in the lounge. There was no crowd control and the line extended from the lounge on Deck 5 to the tender platform . Eventually the Captain came down to try to straighten out the tendering process. We were about an hour late arriving in a port and CD announced it was a weather delay The reality was the last tender was over an hour late returning the previous day due to engine problems. 

 

Port talks were replaced with AI generated videos. If you asked a question or for a port map from excursions you were usually told to visit the on shore tourist booth.

 

I believe all of this and many other disappointments on this cruise are related  to Oceania's drastic cost cutting. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hlitner]

While I am no expert on the excursions "racket" we do have a little knowledge (always dangerous) of how it works.  Unfortunately, "O" and all the other cruise lines are caught in the post COVID fallout that has decimated tour providers, worldwide.  The cruise lines (of their third party tour desk operator) contract with various local tour providers who must meet certain cruise line-imposed requirements such as having sufficient liability insurance.  During COVID, many local tour companies went out of business or changed ownership.  In addition, they lost many of their long-time employees.  Now, in countries like Japan, the local tour providers are struggling to get their operations on track.  But  just like here in the USA, many jobs are going unfilled!  It has become increasingly common for all the cruise lines to cancel excursions (often at the last minute) because the local providers cannot accommodate the current demand.   We saw this, first hand, last spring when we were in Taiwan (on a HAL cruise) where a tour bus driver simply quit and walked-out...while the bus was parked on the pier!  We had to wait over 30 minutes while the local tour company managed to find another driver.

 

During our Japan/Korea/Taiwan trip this past spring (on the Westerdam) numerous excursions were cancelled due to issues with the local providers.  There was little that could be done by the ship's excursion manager (who worked for a third party contractor).  Just 2 weeks ago, while on a Princess cruise in the Caribbean, we had a snorkel excursion cancelled in Belize...because the local contractor was not able to obtain the required liability insurance (this forced the cruise line to cancel lots of other excursions through January).  

 

For those of you who depend on cruise line excursions, you will either need to accept the situation or change your own shore-based habits.  There are plenty of cruisers (including moi) that seldom take excursions because we prefer to either do our own thing (DIY) or join small group (or even private) local tours.  Fellow cruisers either must learn to deal with the new reality, or just take what is offered by the cruise lines...including last minute excursion cancellations/modifications.

 

There are many of us (independent travelers) who are active on the CC Ports of Call Boards.  Most of us are willing to help folks who need advice on how to handle individual ports.  I like to say that we help folks who are willing to help themselves :).  

 

The issue we all face with "O" is that we must deal with the fact that "O" often includes an excursion credit/component.  For us, if means we book excursions in ports where we would normally DIY.  While we do not generally like cruise line excursions, we go along with the "O" program because we have essentially payed for the excursions (whether we like it or not).   For our upcoming 35 day Vista cruise, DW and I have managed to book the minimum number of O excursions (we hold our nose and click on the mouse).  The alternative is to cruise with a different line that does not include excursions (one reason why Seabourn is our current favorite cruise line) and simply do your own thing.

 

Hank

[SATaxman]

6 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

While I am no expert on the excursions "racket" we do have a little knowledge (always dangerous) of how it works.  Unfortunately, "O" and all the other cruise lines are caught in the post COVID fallout that has decimated tour providers, worldwide.  The cruise lines (of their third party tour desk operator) contract with various local tour providers who must meet certain cruise line-imposed requirements such as having sufficient liability insurance.  During COVID, many local tour companies went out of business or changed ownership.  In addition, they lost many of their long-time employees.  Now, in countries like Japan, the local tour providers are struggling to get their operations on track.  But  just like here in the USA, many jobs are going unfilled!  It has become increasingly common for all the cruise lines to cancel excursions (often at the last minute) because the local providers cannot accommodate the current demand.   We saw this, first hand, last spring when we were in Taiwan (on a HAL cruise) where a tour bus driver simply quit and walked-out...while the bus was parked on the pier!  We had to wait over 30 minutes while the local tour company managed to find another driver.

 

During our Japan/Korea/Taiwan trip this past spring (on the Westerdam) numerous excursions were cancelled due to issues with the local providers.  There was little that could be done by the ship's excursion manager (who worked for a third party contractor).  Just 2 weeks ago, while on a Princess cruise in the Caribbean, we had a snorkel excursion cancelled in Belize...because the local contractor was not able to obtain the required liability insurance (this forced the cruise line to cancel lots of other excursions through January).  

 

For those of you who depend on cruise line excursions, you will either need to accept the situation or change your own shore-based habits.  There are plenty of cruisers (including moi) that seldom take excursions because we prefer to either do our own thing (DIY) or join small group (or even private) local tours.  Fellow cruisers either must learn to deal with the new reality, or just take what is offered by the cruise lines...including last minute excursion cancellations/modifications.

 

There are many of us (independent travelers) who are active on the CC Ports of Call Boards.  Most of us are willing to help folks who need advice on how to handle individual ports.  I like to say that we help folks who are willing to help themselves :).  

 

The issue we all face with "O" is that we must deal with the fact that "O" often includes an excursion credit/component.  For us, if means we book excursions in ports where we would normally DIY.  While we do not generally like cruise line excursions, we go along with the "O" program because we have essentially payed for the excursions (whether we like it or not).   For our upcoming 35 day Vista cruise, DW and I have managed to book the minimum number of O excursions (we hold our nose and click on the mouse).  The alternative is to cruise with a different line that does not include excursions (one reason why Seabourn is our current favorite cruise line) and simply do your own thing.

 

Hank

How do I find CC boards with specific ports? Thanks

 

[Hlitner]

1 minute ago, SATaxman said:

How do I find CC boards with specific ports? Thanks

 

:).  Just look under the "Ports of Call" section here on CC.  It is broken down into the various parts of the world such as "Europe" and than further broken down in to regions such as "Mediterranean - Eastern and Western."  You can also scroll down on this page (or any CC page) to where it says "Forum Jump) and find a list of all the CC boards (including the many Ports of Call boards).

 

For years, we have urged fellow cruisers to not be shy and post your specific questions on the Ports of Call Boards  For many of us, helping on those boards has become a labor of love :).  I also suggest using the CC Search function (which you can limit to specific boards) to first search for your port (i.e. "Rome") so you can read prior posts (which will likely have answers to many of your questions).

 

What we (independent travelers) cannot do is force folks to set aside their anxiety about doing things on their own.  We can just make it clear that many of us have been doing our own thing for decades, have never missed the ship, and have had loads of fun.  Independent travel is somewhat of a mindset, and it does take some time (and effort) to get used to that kind of travel.  It means doing pre-cruise "homework."  The reward is being able to do what you want, when you want, with who you want!  Imagine a world where you do not lose valuable port time waiting for slow folks to get on and off buses, go to the rest rooms, finish their shopping, etc :).  

 

Speaking of booking your own private tours, there are some third-party "consolidators" that can help those who do not want to look for their own local tour providers.  While I am not a big fan, there are companies like Viator and the very popular "Tours by Locals" that can make it easier (not always better) to book local tours.

 

My own pet peeve is about cruise line "walking tours."  In many ports, these excursions now cost around $100 per person!  The idea of paying nearly $200 a couple for a walking tour in a port like Kotor (very easy to do on your own) is just something we find ridiculous.  Yes, there are many cruisers that like these walking tours, but they might consider the alternative which is to get a decent tour book (we like the Rick Steves books for much of Europe) or just download to their own phone, a local walking tour (some are free and some have a small cost).  Having a working smartphone has been a game changer for we independent travelers.  I used to carry many pounds of maps/map books when I went to Europe, now we simply take our phones :).

 

Hank

[SATaxman]

Thanks. We have booked private tours with people we have "met" on CC. One cruise a group of 16 of us spent all 10 port days together. One had a TA brother who booked everything. What was even more interesting is that 5 couples had suites next to each other.

[clarku]

This happened to us on our April ‘23 Nautica cruise, getting locked out of some excursions. We ended up booking independent private tours and they ended up being our best days.

[Hlitner]

3 minutes ago, SATaxman said:

Thanks. We have booked private tours with people we have "met" on CC. One cruise a group of 16 of us spent all 10 port days together. One had a TA brother who booked everything. What was even more interesting is that 5 couples had suites next to each other.

At the risk of being a "cheerleader" for CC (I am), there are still many folks here on CC who are not aware or who do not use the "Roll Call" boards.  For those not aware, these are blogs for each separate cruise where posters can exchange cruise-specific info including organizing private tours.  It can be an amazing resource.  I recall one cruise where DW and I were renting a car in Livorno to drive to Riomaggiore (Cinque Terre) and decided to look for another couple to split the cost.  I posted on our Roll Call board, and within an hour I had several takers (we simply chose the first responder).  

 

Hank

[MEFIowa]

13 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

... My own pet peeve is about cruise line "walking tours."  In many ports, these excursions now cost around $100 per person!  The idea of paying nearly $200 a couple for a walking tour in a port like Kotor (very easy to do on your own) is just something we find ridiculous.  Yes, there are many cruisers that like these walking tours, but they might consider the alternative which is to get a decent tour book (we like the Rick Steves books for much of Europe) or just download to their own phone, a local walking tour (some are free and some have a small cost).

We walked Kotor ourselves in November, off of Riviera, including the thousands of steps up to the St. John's Fortress. Kotor is the classic case of pretty much anyone could just walk the walled city by yourself. (Walked outside it to the local Idea grocery store to pick up lots of beer and hard liquor.)

 

I used Steve's guide to Istanbul and Ephesus for our respective DIY tours of each in November. We took the #38 bus from near the Spice Market to the Old Walls, miles away, and walked most of it back, following his City Walls Walking Tour. Was an amazing experience! And using their local transportation it cost about 55 cents per trip on bus or metro!

[Hlitner]

10 minutes ago, MEFIowa said:

We walked Kotor ourselves in November, off of Riviera, including the thousands of steps up to the St. John's Fortress. Kotor is the classic case of pretty much anyone could just walk the walled city by yourself. (Walked outside it to the local Idea grocery store to pick up lots of beer and hard liquor.)

 

I used Steve's guide to Istanbul and Ephesus for our respective DIY tours of each in November. We took the #38 bus from near the Spice Market to the Old Walls, miles away, and walked most of it back, following his City Walls Walking Tour. Was an amazing experience! And using their local transportation it cost about 55 cents per trip on bus or metro!

Kusadasi might be one of "my exceptions to our rule" of DIY.  We have done that part of Turkey with a cruise line excursion, a private tour (for just the two of us), and DIY (including multi-day rental cars).  This is one of the few places where I strongly recommend that every first time visitor book a private tour (whether for themselves or a small group).  Having a professional guide for one's first visit to Ephesus, is well worth the cost.  Our tour provider of choice is Ekol, but there are quite a few decent tour providers in Kusadasi (many have been recommended in the Port of Call board).  

 

Hank

[SATaxman]

21 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

At the risk of being a "cheerleader" for CC (I am), there are still many folks here on CC who are not aware or who do not use the "Roll Call" boards.  For those not aware, these are blogs for each separate cruise where posters can exchange cruise-specific info including organizing private tours.  It can be an amazing resource.  I recall one cruise where DW and I were renting a car in Livorno to drive to Riomaggiore (Cinque Terre) and decided to look for another couple to split the cost.  I posted on our Roll Call board, and within an hour I had several takers (we simply chose the first responder).  

 

Hank

In October, we shared transportation from our hotel in Venice to the port in Trieste.

 

[QuestionEverything]

Hlitner:

Thank you very much for the time you take to post on CC.

Your extensive knowledge is very helpful indeed.

You provide an invaluable public service.

I have a SE voyage booked on O Jan 2025 and beyond nervous about missing ports/cancelled shore excursions.

Flying 1/2 way around the world and not having paid for access to the ports simply is not workable for me.

Thanks for the Roll Calls, that is so much assistance.

Will go there and work with other guests on our cruise.

The mandatory payment for shore excursions due to Simply More has resulted in us not booking any further O cruises. 

Please keep well and hoping 2024 is a great year for you and your family.

 

[Hambagahle]

11 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

Kusadasi might be one of "my exceptions to our rule" of DIY.  We have done that part of Turkey with a cruise line excursion, a private tour (for just the two of us), and DIY (including multi-day rental cars).  This is one of the few places where I strongly recommend that every first time visitor book a private tour (whether for themselves or a small group).  Having a professional guide for one's first visit to Ephesus, is well worth the cost.  Our tour provider of choice is Ekol, but there are quite a few decent tour providers in Kusadasi (many have been recommended in the Port of Call board).  

 

Hank

I totally agree with this - you need a guide, and a good one at that, to make sense of Ephesus.  When we were there (a long time ago...) we were in a group that had two university professors with us.  One from Oxford and the other from London.  They did a magnificent job of preparing us for the day there and then leading the group around the site.   Sadly Oceania has seen fit to remove Ephesus from our itinerary this time around...

We have had some good Oceania tours - one in Belize to a Mayan site was incredible.  Partly for the guide and partly for the boat driver on the river who was able to spot any kind of wildlife around.  We have also had some not great tours (I remember one in Palma when we simply left and went back to the ship) and some "middleing" ones.  It is really the luck of the draw but as Hank has pointed out the odds of a really good tour are not great at the moment.

[Vineyard View]

46 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

:).  Just look under the "Ports of Call" section here on CC.  It is broken down into the various parts of the world such as "Europe" and than further broken down in to regions such as "Mediterranean - Eastern and Western."  You can also scroll down on this page (or any CC page) to where it says "Forum Jump) and find a list of all the CC boards (including the many Ports of Call boards).

 

For years, we have urged fellow cruisers to not be shy and post your specific questions on the Ports of Call Boards  For many of us, helping on those boards has become a labor of love :).  I also suggest using the CC Search function (which you can limit to specific boards) to first search for your port (i.e. "Rome") so you can read prior posts (which will likely have answers to many of your questions).

 

What we (independent travelers) cannot do is force folks to set aside their anxiety about doing things on their own.  We can just make it clear that many of us have been doing our own thing for decades, have never missed the ship, and have had loads of fun.  Independent travel is somewhat of a mindset, and it does take some time (and effort) to get used to that kind of travel.  It means doing pre-cruise "homework."  The reward is being able to do what you want, when you want, with who you want!  Imagine a world where you do not lose valuable port time waiting for slow folks to get on and off buses, go to the rest rooms, finish their shopping, etc :).  

 

Speaking of booking your own private tours, there are some third-party "consolidators" that can help those who do not want to look for their own local tour providers.  While I am not a big fan, there are companies like Viator and the very popular "Tours by Locals" that can make it easier (not always better) to book local tours.

 

My own pet peeve is about cruise line "walking tours."  In many ports, these excursions now cost around $100 per person!  The idea of paying nearly $200 a couple for a walking tour in a port like Kotor (very easy to do on your own) is just something we find ridiculous.  Yes, there are many cruisers that like these walking tours, but they might consider the alternative which is to get a decent tour book (we like the Rick Steves books for much of Europe) or just download to their own phone, a local walking tour (some are free and some have a small cost).  Having a working smartphone has been a game changer for we independent travelers.  I used to carry many pounds of maps/map books when I went to Europe, now we simply take our phones :).

 

Hank

This is us!  Totally agree with everything you are saying Hank. We have always been DIY and Independent. This is why the extra costs on Viking, and I guess now Oceania, and other lines, for included tours is not click bait for us. 
This past Spring we decided to try two excursions to places fairly distant from port. It reminded us of why we don’t like them. 
I would only add that on Trip Advisor there is a section in all geographic locations called Forums. You can click on that for a specific area you are visiting and ask questions - including private tours and transportation. Pick any city, and instead of hotels or restaurants, there is this category as well. I have found it useful in addition to CC. 
I also add my thanks to you Hank. You have always been really helpful 
 

[Hlitner]

5 minutes ago, Vineyard View said:

This is us!  Totally agree with everything you are saying Hank. We have always been DIY and Independent. This is why the extra costs on Viking, and I guess now Oceania, and other lines, for included tours is not click bait for us. 
This past Spring we decided to try two excursions to places fairly distant from port. It reminded us of why we don’t like them. 
I would only add that on Trip Advisor there is a section in all geographic locations called Forums. You can click on that for a specific area you are visiting and ask questions - including private tours and transportation. Pick any city, and instead of hotels or restaurants, there is this category as well. I have found it useful in addition to CC. 
I also add my thanks to you Hank. You have always been really helpful 
 

We are also long time users/fans of Tripadvisor.  That being said, the current algorithm they use to order restaurants has resulted in something that is very bad, indeed.  While we still like TA for the various posts, we personally suggest folks ignore their ratings order  

 

Hank

[MEFIowa]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

Kusadasi might be one of "my exceptions to our rule" of DIY.  We have done that part of Turkey with a cruise line excursion, a private tour (for just the two of us), and DIY (including multi-day rental cars).  This is one of the few places where I strongly recommend that every first-time visitor book a private tour (whether for themselves or a small group).  Having a professional guide for one's first visit to Ephesus, is well worth the cost.  Our tour provider of choice is Ekol, but there are quite a few decent tour providers in Kusadasi (many have been recommended in the Port of Call board)....

 

45 minutes ago, Hambagahle said:

I totally agree with this - you need a guide, and a good one at that, to make sense of Ephesus.  When we were there (a long time ago...) we were in a group that had two university professors with us.  One from Oxford and the other from London.  They did a magnificent job of preparing us for the day there and then leading the group around the site.   Sadly Oceania has seen fit to remove Ephesus from our itinerary this time around...

Though I guess I should define my terms. By "DIY" here I mean essentially making your own arrangements, not thru the cruise line. So... in Istanbul we took public transportation and walked all over the city by ourselves. In Izmir (we didn't dock in Kusadasi), we were met by a car, a driver, and a guide, that we'd hired ourselves.

 

BUT I would say that for both Istanbul and Ephesus, IF you read Steves' work on both, you can "tour" both yourself without a guide, just make sure you have transportation arrangements, and still be quite informed.

[Hlitner]

21 minutes ago, MEFIowa said:

 

Though I guess I should define my terms. By "DIY" here I mean essentially making your own arrangements, not thru the cruise line. So... in Istanbul we took public transportation and walked all over the city by ourselves. In Izmir (we didn't dock in Kusadasi), we were met by a car, a driver, and a guide, that we'd hired ourselves.

 

BUT I would say that for both Istanbul and Ephesus, IF you read Steves' work on both, you can "tour" both yourself without a guide, just make sure you have transportation arrangements, and still be quite informed.

This will be a long response and folks not interested in Ephesus should move on :).  The first time we went to Ephesus (over 30 years ago) was on a Princess Excursion from Izmir,  We did not get enough of Ephesus, but did later get locked inside a large faux jewelry factory (which forever turned me against cruise line exursions) until a near-mutiny finally got the front door unlocked (so we could leave).  On our 2nd visit, DW and simply took a local public van/bus from town to the nearest stop to the ruins from where we hiked over a mile to the entrance.  We loved that day, spent hours inside the ruins, and listened to many different tour guides tell completely different (and it turned out wrong) stories about various highlights).  For our third visit, I contacted Ekol (a local tour company) and asked if we could hire a personal guide who actually had some decent credentials.  We got an amazing guide, who was a graduate archeologist, and also friends with the curator of the ruins!  (the last we heard that guide had moved to Russia).  

 

Seeing the ruins with the knowledgeable personal guide was somewhat of an eye opener in terms of history.  The day was also a lot of fun and actually cost us less than large group excursions from the cruise line.  We realized that many so-called "professional guides" were anything but....and often made-up "facts" as needed to serve their charges.  I should mention that on two subsequent visits to the area we have traveled afar (once with a rental car and another time with a hired taxi) to places like Miletus, Didyma, Priene, and the fascinating town of Tire (where we drove to visit their weekly market).  

 

So, while I agree with you in principle (in terms of a decent guidebook or a downloaded walking tour) I do think that these particular ruins really cry out for a decent guide.  We do not feel the same about many other ruins (such as in Rome, Pompeii, Borobudur,  etc. where we have done fine with a little homework and books or online guides.  Perhaps we are wrong, but its our story and we are sticking to it :).

 

Hank

[MEFIowa]

5 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

... Seeing the ruins with the knowledgeable personal guide was somewhat of an eye opener in terms of history.  The day was also a lot of fun and actually cost us less than large group excursions from the cruise line.  We realized that many so-called "professional guides" were anything but....and often made-up "facts" as needed to serve their charges.  I should mention that on two subsequent visits to the area we have traveled afar (once with a rental car and another time with a hired taxi) to places like Miletus, Didyma, Priene, and the fascinating town of Tire (where we drove to visit their weekly market). So, while I agree with you in principle (in terms of a decent guidebook or a downloaded walking tour) I do think that these particular ruins really cry out for a decent guide.  We do not feel the same about many other ruins (such as in Rome, Pompeii, Borobudur,  etc. where we have done fine with a little homework and books or online guides.  Perhaps we are wrong, but its our story and we are sticking to it.

We were on Riviera on a 20-night B2B. Trieste to Athens and then Athens to Barcelona. Izmir was on the 1st leg. (And we spent one overnight each leg in Istanbul.) We were blessed to have an archeologist on board as our guest lecturer and I attended 9 of his 10 lectures and watched the 10th on tape afterwards (off our TV in room). So I'd listened to him discuss Split, for example, Diocletian's palace and the Greco-Roman ruins near there (which we also went to). As he readily admitted, there is a "sameness" to the basic plan of these cities. Which you see in Ephesus (only about 15% excavated). We started on the hill and worked our way down, then exiting the site by the massive theatre. (Others I believe did it backwards to us.) In either case, any good guide can literally give you a building-by-building discussion of each ruin that is visible and can be entered. Whether the Library of Celsus, the Brothel, public toilet, Odeon, or "suburbs". (I did buy a short but relevant picture and text book AFTER I had walked it, to preserve in my mind our tour there, in addition to the many photographs we both took!) 

[Vineyard View]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

We are also long time users/fans of Tripadvisor.  That being said, the current algorithm they use to order restaurants has resulted in something that is very bad, indeed.  While we still like TA for the various posts, we personally suggest folks ignore their ratings order  

 

Hank

That sure helps me understand the restaurant ratings we have been noticing . Thank you. 

[Hlitner]

Just now, Vineyard View said:

That sure helps me understand the restaurant ratings we have been noticing . Thank you. 

We live in Puerto Vallarta, for 10 weeks a year, where we dine-out about 70 times (every year).  After 18 years I think we could argue that we are "experts" on that city and its eating venues.  A few years ago, when TA changed its ranking algorithm,  their #1 restaurant was a popular (and decent) martini bar that did not even have food!   I once talked to one of their bar tenders who told me that folks would come in, every day, asking about getting dinner,   The bar did allow for pizza deliveries :).

 

They also rank very high, a tiny place that is only open for lunch and serves a very limited menu aimed at vegetarians.  Pity the poor person that goes there for dinner!  Lately, they gave their top rating to a small coffee roasting/candy shop that also has some OK food...but would not be on most folks top 20 or even top 30.  Another change in their algorithm now lumps places from outside PV (some over 45 minutes distant) with PV.  Since TA is part of the CC family, we will be kind and say that the TA editors do not want to hear it, when it comes to criticism or suggestions.

 

 Look at their Myrtle Beach restaurant ranking (a place we also know quite well) and their #1 place (for years) has been the Melting Pot....a small national chain that does have decent (and overpriced) fondue!  No way is the Melting Pot (an excellent venue) the #1 restaurant in that region,  

 

 

 

 

[AMHuntFerry]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

 Look at their Myrtle Beach restaurant ranking (a place we also know quite well) and their #1 place (for years) has been the Melting Pot....a small national chain that does have decent (and overpriced) fondue!  No way is the Melting Pot (an excellent venue) the #1 restaurant in that region,  

 

 

 

 

Out of curiosity, I checked TA for Boise...#1 = The Melting Pot! 🤣 Now Boise isn't the gourmet mecca that some places are, but we do have some James Beard nominees (and a winner this year!), and some really good chef-run/owned and farm-to-table restaurants.

[Hlitner]

Just now, AMHuntFerry said:

Out of curiosity, I checked TA for Boise...#1 = The Melting Pot! 🤣 Now Boise isn't the gourmet mecca that some places are, but we do have some James Beard nominees (and a winner this year!), and some really good chef-run/owned and farm-to-table restaurants.

That is interesting.  I think most who go to the Melting Pot (we go the Myrtle Beach location on an annual basis) would say they really enjoy the experience, but it is far from the best restaurant in town...any town.  So how does a restaurant rise to the top of the pecking order?  Some restaurants solicit their customers to post TA reviews (this helps get them a higher rating) and there are unproven rumors that some places might try to "influence" the rankings by "finding" folks to post.  While I have no idea if this is true, I have learned to put much less stock in TA reviews from folks who have very few reviews.  It is amazing how some high ranking restaurants will have lots of reviews from posters with only 1 or 2 posts.  Draw your own conclusion.

 

I do think a weakness of all travel sites are "rankings."  CC is no different and one could certainly quibble with some of the ranking that have appeared on CC (over the years).  When it comes to cruise lines, each line has plenty of "cheerleaders" for which their favorite line can do no or little wrong.  And it also seems like a majority of cruisers only sail on 1 or 2 lines so have little basis of comparison to the competition.  I used to call this the Volkswagon Effect.  Consider a person who has only driven in VWs and says that VWs are the best cars in the world!  To them, this is true, not because they are fibbing, but because they have no basis of comparison.   I heard this on our recent Westerdam cruise when a lady told me that HAL was the ONLY line that she cruised, because it was the best.  When I asked her what other lines, she had tried, the answer was NONE!

 

Hank

[AMHuntFerry]

2 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

 I used to call this the Volkswagon Effect.  Consider a person who has only driven in VWs and says that VWs are the best cars in the world!  To them, this is true, not because they are fibbing, but because they have no basis of comparison.   I heard this on our recent Westerdam cruise when a lady told me that HAL was the ONLY line that she cruised, because it was the best.  When I asked her what other lines, she had tried, the answer was NONE!

 

Well, I do wish I still had my '65 VW bug 🙂

[Waltershipman]

4 hours ago, Hlitner said:

At the risk of being a "cheerleader" for CC (I am), there are still many folks here on CC who are not aware or who do not use the "Roll Call" boards.  For those not aware, these are blogs for each separate cruise where posters can exchange cruise-specific info including organizing private tours.  It can be an amazing resource.  I recall one cruise where DW and I were renting a car in Livorno to drive to Riomaggiore (Cinque Terre) and decided to look for another couple to split the cost.  I posted on our Roll Call board, and within an hour I had several takers (we simply chose the first responder).  

 

Hank

There is a lot of nice activity on the roll call for Vista January 31 cruise 

[Hambagahle]

3 hours ago, MEFIowa said:

 

Though I guess I should define my terms. By "DIY" here I mean essentially making your own arrangements, not thru the cruise line. So... in Istanbul we took public transportation and walked all over the city by ourselves. In Izmir (we didn't dock in Kusadasi), we were met by a car, a driver, and a guide, that we'd hired ourselves.

 

BUT I would say that for both Istanbul and Ephesus, IF you read Steves' work on both, you can "tour" both yourself without a guide, just make sure you have transportation arrangements, and still be quite informed.

I have to say that having read Rick Steves book on Switzerland and having found a lot of problems with it - and the same with his guide to Florence - I am not a fan of his.   But if he can point you in the right direction I suppose why not?   

Istanbul - when we were last there a very long time ago we did our own thing.  It never occured to us that we would need a guide.  Turkey is a bit different now and so are we!  (A generation older...). But sadly we are not going there...