Questions for recent Princess cruisers

[TRLD]

11 hours ago, Titanfan22 said:

I don’t disagree with anything you are saying, however, I feel the cruise lines business model should have nothing to do with providing cash incentives (tips) to customer facing employees.  It’s a shell game that only gives a portion of the gratuity to those providing the service.  With 3000 passengers on a ship with average gratuity of $16 per person, that is $336,000 for a 7-day cruise.   Princess has noted this money will be used as follows:

“The pooled funds are distributed throughout the year in the form of compensation, including bonuses, to crewmembers fleetwide who interact directly with guests and/or behind the scenes throughout every cruise, including those in the Bar, Dining, Entertainment, Housekeeping, Guest Services, Galley and Onboard Revenue ...

https://www.princess.com > global

Crew Appreciation and Service Charge Policy - Princess Cruises”

 

They are using this money to supplement their business expenses and for them to determine who gets what. For a two person cabin, with a gratuity of $224, I can’t even be assured that my room cabin is going to get $20 of it!  But the entertainers, who do earn more, might get compensation or bonuses from it?  This is creating a revenue stream, not collecting tips and passing them on to those who earned it.  Call it a service fee for the cruise and encourage people to still tip the forward facing employees that go above and beyond and we can clear all of this up.

 

By the time you pay all of the behind the scenes people, how much is left for the stewards, waiters, and bartenders?  And don’t forget the exorbitant administrative fees that will be charged against this pot of gold for handling and managing this money before distributing any of it out.  Also, please keep in mind the cruise lines can publicly  post / say anything, there is no regulation or proof as to what they do with it.

 

 

 

 

 

The alternative model is to include all money paid to the crew as salary, and include those additional cost in the fares. Which has disadvantages to passengers, the crew and the cruise lines compared to the current model.

 

There are fewer behind the scenes folks then you imply. After all the pool only applies to the Hotel side, not the ship side. So you eliminate the deck crew, the engineering crew, the maintenance workers, etc. You can also eliminate the officer level personnel.  Also some positions such as sales, spa, and future cruise sales are contract positions and are not part of the pool.

 

Many of the behind the scenes folks are actually customer facing the servers in the buffet, food lines, those that get drinks and bus tables. Lots of direct contact and certainly contribute to the experience but seldom thought of when tips are handed out. There are some that are truly behind the scenes folks such as kitchen workers and laundry workers as well as the hotel staff that clean the public areas. Really not that high of a percentage ad you imply.

 

Also keep in mind that the daily gratuity evolved in parallel with the changes in dining. As traditional moved to anything to DMY the interface changed from having 1 set of dining room staff to now multiple different ones during the trip. I guess they could put tip envelops by each plate each night so that one could reward the waiter each evening or put tip jars out for each performance of the various entertainers that play in the various venues. Except for Stewards and maybe a favorite bartender direct tipping for quality service becomes an excuse not to tip because most do not carry tip money around for adirect facing employees that one might only see once.

 

Passengers can have a major say in where some of that money is routed. Positive comments of the cruise survey mentioning specific employees is a highly valued in the determination of bonuses,  promotions and additional time off while on ship.

.

[TRLD]

7 hours ago, insidecabin said:

 

For friendly staff try Marella where the base price is all inclusive.

 

Or MSC cruises from the UK  have been just as friendly where they know the UK pax are tips included.

 

I prefer genuine friendly over the hope of a $ in the palm friendly.

 

If the claims of package(plus/premier) take up  are right Princess is effectively a tips include line.

 

 

 

 

 

 

What is the cost per day for Marella and how does it compare to US mass market lines.

 

Even on all.inclusive lines or maybe even more so on them, complaints or negative feedback can destroy their career. Is that false friendly as well. 

 

Tips included only for those that buy packages similar with the other NA focused  mass market lines.  I quite encourage people to buy packages because it removes the ability to remove the tips, as well as helping to keepbase fares low.

 

Cannot comment on MSC level of service since I have not sailed on them. Though some friends of mine that have, have commented that awevice in yacht club is outstanding, less so outside of yacht club in other categories.

[TRLD]

4 hours ago, Titanfan22 said:

No disrespect, however, I would like to step back and say I don’t care how much the employees make nor am I interested in compensating every member of the crew.  That is between the employee and the employer.  I would just like to insure the gratuity I pay “: something given voluntarily or beyond obligation usually for some service” goes directly to those who have provided a service.

 

No, it is you and those like you that are creating a tip crazy culture.

So the person that washes your towels and sheets does not deliver a service, nor the waiter that you have for one night at the MDR, or the person that promptly cleans a table for you in the bar, buffet or by the pool?  Do you carry cash around to reward those you come in contact with each time they deliver outstanding service. Or do you do what most do and leave your wallet in the safe and only reward those that have extended contact with you such as a room steward or favorite bartender?

 

How many of you that say the company should make it part of their wage would be happy to see the base fare increase by an equivalent amount as the recommended gratuity, along with that money having to be paid in advance of the cruise withfibal payment, increase in the cost of travel insurance due to thr increased cost of the fare, with no option to reduce the gratuity in those (relatively few) cases where service is clearly substandard.

[Bgwest]

31 minutes ago, TRLD said:

How many of you that say the company should make it part of their wage would be happy to see the base fare increase by an equivalent amount<snip>

I would. 
Anyone else? Show of hands.😃

[memoak]

35 minutes ago, TRLD said:

So the person that washes your towels and sheets does not deliver a service, nor the waiter that you have for one night at the MDR, or the person that promptly cleans a table for you in the bar, buffet or by the pool?  Do you carry cash around to reward those you come in contact with each time they deliver outstanding service. Or do you do what most do and leave your wallet in the safe and only reward those that have extended contact with you such as a room steward or favorite bartender?

 

How many of you that say the company should make it part of their wage would be happy to see the base fare increase by an equivalent amount as the recommended gratuity, along with that money having to be paid in advance of the cruise withfibal payment, increase in the cost of travel insurance due to thr increased cost of the fare, with no option to reduce the gratuity in those (relatively few) cases where service is clearly substandard.

Those people who won’t pay crew appreciation probably would not like the equivalent in cruise fare increase since it would total the same amount of money. 

 

 

[Titanfan22]

1 hour ago, TRLD said:

So the person that washes your towels and sheets does not deliver a service, nor the waiter that you have for one night at the MDR, or the person that promptly cleans a table for you in the bar, buffet or by the pool?  Do you carry cash around to reward those you come in contact with each time they deliver outstanding service. Or do you do what most do and leave your wallet in the safe and only reward those that have extended contact with you such as a room steward or favorite bartender?

 

How many of you that say the company should make it part of their wage would be happy to see the base fare increase by an equivalent amount as the recommended gratuity, along with that money having to be paid in advance of the cruise withfibal payment, increase in the cost of travel insurance due to thr increased cost of the fare, with no option to reduce the gratuity in those (relatively few) cases where service is clearly substandard.

Do you tip your doctor or the nurse that takes your blood pressure?  Do you tip the person that fixes or replaces your air conditioner at home?  Do you tip your financial advisor or banker? Why not?  Because they are getting paid to do their job as is the person that washes the sheets and others should be also.  It’s not the passengers job to ensure wages are paid, if it is raise fares or call it a service fee.  There are several articles out there that address this subject and how the businesses (Cruise Lines) are posturing and taking advantage of this business model.  
 

Again gratuity:  pay “: something given voluntarily or beyond obligation usually for some service”

 

Nor am I’m not confident the cruise lines are distributing this money as above and beyond wages.  I would bet they are using these dollars to help meet payroll while providing discretionary bonuses however they chose.  And I would guess 10-15% stays with the house.  
 

This is big business, don’t be naive and think they are all about being fair and  ensuring their employees have a great quality of life.  It is about profit and margins.

 

 

 

[Titanfan22]

46 minutes ago, memoak said:

Those people who won’t pay crew appreciation probably would not like the equivalent in cruise fare increase since it would total the same amount of money. 

 

 

It would then be our choice as to whether we wanted to pay that fare or not.  However, we would then be able to directly tip those that we feel have provided service without playing this shell game.

Edited February 26 by Titanfan22
Error spelling

[memoak]

5 minutes ago, Titanfan22 said:

Do you tip your doctor or the nurse that takes your blood pressure?  Do you tip the person that fixes or replaces your air conditioner at home?  Do you tip your financial advisor or banker? Why not?  Because they are getting paid to do their job as is the person that washes the sheets and others should be also.  It’s not the passengers job to ensure wages are paid, if it is raise fares or call it a service fee.  There are several articles out there that address this subject and how the businesses (Cruise Lines) are posturing and taking advantage of this business model.  
 

Again gratuity:  pay “: something given voluntarily or beyond obligation usually for some service”

 

Nor am I’m not confident the cruise lines are distributing this money as above and beyond wages.  I would bet they are using these dollars to help meet payroll while providing discretionary bonuses however they chose.  And I would guess 10-15% stays with the house.  
 

This is big business, don’t be naive and think they are all about being fair and  ensuring their employees have a great quality of life.  It is about profit and margins.

 

 

 

Gratuities have been around forever and if people had paid the recommended amount  they would not have had to add it to the cruise. In the old days the bars and dining rooms were empty with people running away without tipping out. Don’t you tip people like barbers , spa technicians etc. Do you refuse to drink or use spa services on ship because the includ a 18% tip ?

 

[memoak]

13 minutes ago, Titanfan22 said:

Do you tip your doctor or the nurse that takes your blood pressure?  Do you tip the person that fixes or replaces your air conditioner at home?  Do you tip your financial advisor or banker? Why not?  Because they are getting paid to do their job as is the person that washes the sheets and others should be also.  It’s not the passengers job to ensure wages are paid, if it is raise fares or call it a service fee.  There are several articles out there that address this subject and how the businesses (Cruise Lines) are posturing and taking advantage of this business model.  
 

Again gratuity:  pay “: something given voluntarily or beyond obligation usually for some service”

 

Nor am I’m not confident the cruise lines are distributing this money as above and beyond wages.  I would bet they are using these dollars to help meet payroll while providing discretionary bonuses however they chose.  And I would guess 10-15% stays with the house.  
 

This is big business, don’t be naive and think they are all about being fair and  ensuring their employees have a great quality of life.  It is about profit and margins.

 

 

 

If you don’t think you tip your financial advisor what do you call commissions and fees ?

[TRLD]

3 hours ago, Titanfan22 said:

Do you tip your doctor or the nurse that takes your blood pressure?  Do you tip the person that fixes or replaces your air conditioner at home?  Do you tip your financial advisor or banker? Why not?  Because they are getting paid to do their job as is the person that washes the sheets and others should be also.  It’s not the passengers job to ensure wages are paid, if it is raise fares or call it a service fee.  There are several articles out there that address this subject and how the businesses (Cruise Lines) are posturing and taking advantage of this business model.  
 

Again gratuity:  pay “: something given voluntarily or beyond obligation usually for some service”

 

Nor am I’m not confident the cruise lines are distributing this money as above and beyond wages.  I would bet they are using these dollars to help meet payroll while providing discretionary bonuses however they chose.  And I would guess 10-15% stays with the house.  
 

This is big business, don’t be naive and think they are all about being fair and  ensuring their employees have a great quality of life.  It is about profit and margins.

 

 

 

No, but then my doctor does not  have a practice for which tipping is either expected or requested.

 

Totally different situation from a NA focused mass market cruise lines e where there is an expected gratuity that is communicated well.in advance so nothing unexpected when one books. Pretty much the same situation as when one goes to a sit down dining service in the US many of which venues if not most of which also have tip Sharing arrangement with kitchen staff. 

 

Just to save you some time in trying to come up with other farcical comparisons I also do not tip my lawyer, airline pilot, car mechanic or any other number of people for who tipping is not accepted practice.

[TRLD]

5 hours ago, Titanfan22 said:

 

Exactly, as bolded above, is Princess concerned about service or their self-created revenue stream?  What if the steward gets great comments and a great review (maybe passenger lavished them directly with cash) will they be disciplined / terminated for disrupting the revenue stream? 

This all started with an individual posting “Don't cruise if you cannot afford it.”  If someone feels I should have to do something, that is voluntary, (because they chose to voluntarily do it) and it won’t be fair to them if I don’t, maybe they should worry about themselves or NOT cruise if it bugs them.

Thank you all for the comments.  I’m sure we are all more alike than it appears, but it is ok if we have our differences. 

And I guess you’re not interested in the revenue sharing I proposed? lol.

 

Take care

I would say both. Several mechanisms exist for tracking performance of crew. It the system that exists on all NA focused mass market lines.  a system that exists because of benefits to crew, passengers and cruise line compared to alternatives inspite of the potential for some to abuse it and stiff the crew.

 

Just to be clear it is a revenue stream for some of the crew, not the cruiseline. Due to US accounting rules the money does not go on the cruise lines books at all as long as it all.goes to the crew amd remains optional.

 

Now that revenue stream for the crew means that they are willing to accept lower base wage, which reduces cruise line salary expense and allows them to maintain a profit margin with lower base fare revenue.

 

 

Edited February 26 by TRLD

[IndyKid]

2 hours ago, TRLD said:

How many of you that say the company should make it part of their wage would be happy to see the base fare increase by an equivalent amount as the recommended gratuity...

I would in a heartbeat. Also, when searching and comparing prices on cruises I would like to see all the cruise lines list the "out the door" total price (taxes, fees, etc.) so that one knows the exact price per person, instead of having to dig in 2 or 3 levels of the web page to get to the bottom line.

 

Some airlines also play the same stupid games. When you use a search engine like Google Flights, Matrix ITA, etc. it will show their lowest fare, but when you go to their website you find out that it's actually what I call steerage - no carry-on bag, no choosing seats beforehand, etc. which for us is not an option. 

[TRLD]

2 hours ago, IndyKid said:

I would in a heartbeat. Also, when searching and comparing prices on cruises I would like to see all the cruise lines list the "out the door" total price (taxes, fees, etc.) so that one knows the exact price per person, instead of having to dig in 2 or 3 levels of the web page to get to the bottom line.

 

Some airlines also play the same stupid games. When you use a search engine like Google Flights, Matrix ITA, etc. it will show their lowest fare, but when you go to their website you find out that it's actually what I call steerage - no carry-on bag, no choosing seats beforehand, etc. which for us is not an option. 

I would as well because it would make sure that some could not cancel the gratuity.  Now you just need to convince all.of the NA focused lines to do the same and change use accounting rules to eliminate the favorable treatment for gratuities. 

[ldubs]

1 hour ago, memoak said:

If you don’t think you tip your financial advisor what do you call commissions and fees ?

 

I sure would not call them a tip or gratuity.  

[ldubs]

25 minutes ago, IndyKid said:

I would in a heartbeat. Also, when searching and comparing prices on cruises I would like to see all the cruise lines list the "out the door" total price (taxes, fees, etc.) so that one knows the exact price per person, instead of having to dig in 2 or 3 levels of the web page to get to the bottom line.

 

Some airlines also play the same stupid games. When you use a search engine like Google Flights, Matrix ITA, etc. it will show their lowest fare, but when you go to their website you find out that it's actually what I call steerage - no carry-on bag, no choosing seats beforehand, etc. which for us is not an option. 

 

Me three.  Give the out the door price.  Airlines & hotels too.   Though we should recognize, there will always be options with different prices.  Still, not that hard to do.  

[memoak]

55 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

I sure would not call them a tip or gratuity.  

You are paying them for a service. So why is a tip different.

[Titanfan22]

2 hours ago, memoak said:

Gratuities have been around forever and if people had paid the recommended amount  they would not have had to add it to the cruise. In the old days the bars and dining rooms were empty with people running away without tipping out. Don’t you tip people like barbers , spa technicians etc. Do you refuse to drink or use spa services on ship because the includ a 18% tip ?

 

So, the recommended amount (by someone else) on how I am to spend my money?  I don’t think so.  Provide good service and I will tip because I decide to.

 

Don’t get me started on massage.  I spend $150 on a massage then I am required to tip another thirty dollars?  What did $150 pay for?  

Edited February 26 by Titanfan22
Spelling

[Titanfan22]

2 hours ago, memoak said:

If you don’t think you tip your financial advisor what do you call commissions and fees ?

Their payment for doing their job.  Pretty simple overall, do your job and get paid for it.  Go above / beyond and get an extra thank you (gratuity)

 

What is so difficult about this concept?

 

FYI, I gladly tip my massage therapist at home because she constantly rearranges her schedule to accommodate me when I’m in pain.  She provides exercises and stretches to do to help me.  She does not say “your 50 minutes are up Bud, get out”

[Titanfan22]

2 hours ago, TRLD said:

No, but then my doctor does not  have a practice for which tipping is either expected or requested.

 

Totally different situation from a NA focused mass market cruise lines e where there is an expected gratuity that is communicated well.in advance so nothing unexpected when one books. Pretty much the same situation as when one goes to a sit down dining service in the US many of which venues if not most of which also have tip Sharing arrangement with kitchen staff. 

 

Just to save you some time in trying to come up with other farcical comparisons I also do not tip my lawyer, airline pilot, car mechanic or any other number of people for who tipping is not accepted practice.

Tipping is not an expected practice for those folding sheets, those cooking, those washing dishes and etc.  In the case of the restaurant, the server receives the tip for their service and they agree to share or not, that’s their decision. 
 

I’m sure these other trades will gladly allow tipping as an accepted practice, let’s start doing it?

[Titanfan22]

2 hours ago, TRLD said:

I would say both. Several mechanisms exist for tracking performance of crew. It the system that exists on all NA focused mass market lines.  a system that exists because of benefits to crew, passengers and cruise line compared to alternatives inspite of the potential for some to abuse it and stiff the crew.

 

Just to be clear it is a revenue stream for some of the crew, not the cruiseline. Due to US accounting rules the money does not go on the cruise lines books at all as long as it all.goes to the crew amd remains optional.

 

Now that revenue stream for the crew means that they are willing to accept lower base wage, which reduces cruise line salary expense and allows them to maintain a profit margin with lower base fare revenue.

 

 

So they are expected to take a lesser wage because tips are expected and considered part of their compensation.  So if the value of the steward position is $30,000 and the cruise line has all of this great data to know each steward averages $10,000 annually in gratuity, they can pay him $20,000 and feel they are being fair.  And maybe they will knock in a $2000 bonus, yeah!  In my world, the employee earns $30,000 because that is what the job is worth, and the $10,000 is extra and makes a difference in his life so he nets $40,000 which makes all of the going above and beyond well worth it.  (Just throwing these numbers out for simplicity) 

 

Thanks all for the weekend entertainment.  And no, I did not tip the chipotle cashier when she took my order.  That is soon to be the next expected practice. 

 

 

[Titanfan22]

2 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

Me three.  Give the out the door price.  Airlines & hotels too.   Though we should recognize, there will always be options with different prices.  Still, not that hard to do.  

Hotels have started playing the same games with resort fees.  While not a gratuity, just another shell game to manipulate the consumers mind.  And, you can’t decline the resort fee.

 

 

[Titanfan22]

1 hour ago, memoak said:

You are paying them for a service. So why is a tip different.

You are also paying the doctor, nurse, ac service tech,  mechanic, lawyer, and airplane pilot (thanks TRLD for the back up) that also provide a service, why not tip them?  Let’s tip everyone.  
 

Provide a service “a piece of work done for a client or customer that does not involve manufacturing goods”

 

All employees referenced in this thread get paid or should get paid to provide a “service” (their specific job).  
- make a bed  -deliver the food  -put a cast on a broken leg  -take your blood pressure  -change your oil

-clean your ac condenser and etc.  I won’t post the definition of gratuity again.

[Titanfan22]

If there are so many people that are concerned with what others are doing with their gratuity, I’m sure you can voluntarily add more to the pooled tips to offset your concerns.  

[ldubs]

1 hour ago, memoak said:

You are paying them for a service. So why is a tip different.

 

See post #27.  Beyond that, I honestly don't know how to respond.  

[ldubs]

46 minutes ago, Titanfan22 said:

Hotels have started playing the same games with resort fees.  While not a gratuity, just another shell game to manipulate the consumers mind.  And, you can’t decline the resort fee.

 

 

 

We were recently in Las Vegas for a few days.  We paid an additional $50/night ($25 each) in resort fees.  Nothing optional about them.