Haven Gratuities

[Capitan Obvious]

9 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

No, the point is why do we care, what difference does it make?

 

While it obviously doesn't make any difference, we just have to accept that there are members of this community whose entire focus is on their every nickel and every dime and ensuring that they explore any potential justification to keep those nickels and dimes in their pockets. That is why we constantly rehash this topic. The whole "what does everyone else tip" is just a way to check to see if the person asking can reduce what they are paying.

 

The only reason that person A would ask what person B tips is either to a) ensure they aren't paying way less than others...making them look cheap, or b) ensure that they aren't paying way more than others...and they can "safely" reduce their chosen amount.

 

 

Tips should always be given based on the quantiy of service received, the quality of service received, and the financial budget constraints of the guest. IOW, "tip what you feel is fair based on the service received and staying within your means". That is the answer that should always be given whenever anyone asks about tipping.

[UKstages]

i'm no labor expert, and i certainly could be wrong, but there are some collective bargaining arrangements with most cruise lines and the cruise lines are signatories to ITF guidelines, but you don't have to be a union member to work onboard an NCL ship, with the exception of pride of america (SIU).

 

the ITF is not a union per se,  but a consortium of unions representing all manner of worldwide transportation workers. if NCL employees had union representation, it would be unlikely that some of them would be required to work 60 - 70 hours a week.

 

my understanding is that the only union employees NCL has in customer contact positions (servers, bartenders, guest services, stewards, etc.) are on the pride of america, which is registered in the USA. the union is the SIU (seafarers international union).  if NCL were paying union negotiated wages across the fleet, your cruise fare would be substantially higher.

 

shipboard performers do not generally have to belong to actors' equity, either... most performers are non-union, although when a ship is docked in port, such as new york, for a few days, NCL may be obligated to pay actors under a negotiated equity contract.

[havoc315]

35 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

No, the point is why do we care, what difference does it make?

It is one factor that is relevant to me in deciding whether I want to tip additionally or not.  

[complawyer]

since the topic is "haven gratuities"  tipping shouldnt be an issue. the butler does not get a share of the DSC, neither does the concierge, and the cabin steward cleans and sets up your cabin twice a day rather than just once. surely leaving tips for them  (if for no one else) is a no-brainer

[cruiseny4life]

2 hours ago, david_sobe said:

I am surprised that no one mentioned that Haven guests pay a higher auto daily gratuity fee than other passengers.  With the increased DSC the Haven staff such as house keeping, waiters, and bartenders better get the DSC.  The Haven rooms are made twice per day compared to the rest of the ship.  We can assume this increase in fees covers this additional work.

For now, I'm just joining this conversation to say:

 

The bartenders do not receive any part of the onboard service charge. At least based on NCL's literature. They do, however, according to NCL, receive the 20% gratuity when you purchase boozy drinks onboard or select the beverage package. Now, what percentage of the 20% they receive is up to them and NCL to figure out. I have no idea. I just know what NCL claims. 

[julig22]

1 hour ago, havoc315 said:

The only money I’m certain a bartender receives is any cash tip I give them.  (Obviously, they aren’t slaves. I’m certain they are being compensated but I have no certainty as to what that compensation includes).

You know for certain that it's not distributed among all the bar staff working that shift?

[havoc315]

Just now, julig22 said:

You know for certain that it's not distributed among all the bar staff working that shift?

No. I was pretty clear — I have no idea.  
 

Though since I do know that bartenders are not earning $3,000-$5,000 per week on NCL, I am highly confident that NCL is not distributing 100% of the FAS service charge to the bartenders.  
 

If I had to guess — and this is a pure guess — they simply receive an overall compensation similar to what they would get in base+tips if FAS didn’t exist. 
 

 

[DwayneG]

I always tip my butler, and concierge.  And I tip my restaurant server and steward if I am very pleased with service.  But I also always remember that butler and concierge are not working out of the goodness of their hearts, just hoping they'll bet enough tips to live on.  From what I've read these are coveted positions and are paid a bigger salary than many others on the ship. If others would like the job it must be a good job! So I tip well, but it's because they've done a good job, not out of pity like for a beggar.

[zqvol]

15 minutes ago, DwayneG said:

I always tip my butler, and concierge.  And I tip my restaurant server and steward if I am very pleased with service.  But I also always remember that butler and concierge are not working out of the goodness of their hearts, just hoping they'll bet enough tips to live on.  From what I've read these are coveted positions and are paid a bigger salary than many others on the ship. If others would like the job it must be a good job! So I tip well, but it's because they've done a good job, not out of pity like for a beggar.

If you believe that NCL is not paying the butlers and  concierge a nice salary you are mistaken. 

Edited March 12 by zqvol

[RocketMan275]

32 minutes ago, havoc315 said:

No. I was pretty clear — I have no idea.  
 

Though since I do know that bartenders are not earning $3,000-$5,000 per week on NCL, I am highly confident that NCL is not distributing 100% of the FAS service charge to the bartenders.  
 

If I had to guess — and this is a pure guess — they simply receive an overall compensation similar to what they would get in base+tips if FAS didn’t exist. 
 

 

 There is simply no way for you to know what the bartenders earn which means that you cannot be confident on the FAS service charge distribution.

[RocketMan275]

52 minutes ago, havoc315 said:

It is one factor that is relevant to me in deciding whether I want to tip additionally or not.  

Since you cannot know how the DSC is distributed, how can it possibly be a part of the decision?

[RocketMan275]

1 hour ago, Capitan Obvious said:

 

While it obviously doesn't make any difference, we just have to accept that there are members of this community whose entire focus is on their every nickel and every dime and ensuring that they explore any potential justification to keep those nickels and dimes in their pockets. That is why we constantly rehash this topic. The whole "what does everyone else tip" is just a way to check to see if the person asking can reduce what they are paying.

You're assuming that all want to tip about the same amount.  It can also be a way of rationalizing the decision previously made not to tip any amount.

[havoc315]

8 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

 There is simply no way for you to know what the bartenders earn which means that you cannot be confident on the FAS service charge distribution.

I don’t know precisely.  But ballpark earnings are on Glassdoor and elsewhere. Yes, I do feel I can be very confident in stating the bartenders are not earning $3,000-$5,000+ per week.  

[havoc315]

7 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

Since you cannot know how the DSC is distributed, how can it possibly be a part of the decision?

Each person must tip based on their own preferences and factors. Nobody should tell anyone else that they should or should not tip.  
 

For me personally, this lack of clarity makes more more inclined to cash tip. 

[julig22]

42 minutes ago, havoc315 said:

No. I was pretty clear — I have no idea.  
 

Though since I do know that bartenders are not earning $3,000-$5,000 per week on NCL, I am highly confident that NCL is not distributing 100% of the FAS service charge to the bartenders.  
 

If I had to guess — and this is a pure guess — they simply receive an overall compensation similar to what they would get in base+tips if FAS didn’t exist. 
 

 

Huh??? I though what you said was pretty clear, in that you said you know exactly where your additional tips were going when you said:

 

"The only money I’m certain a bartender receives is any cash tip I give them."

[RocketMan275]

5 minutes ago, havoc315 said:

I don’t know precisely.  But ballpark earnings are on Glassdoor and elsewhere. Yes, I do feel I can be very confident in stating the bartenders are not earning $3,000-$5,000+ per week.  

There are imply to many factors to make that conclusion convincing.

Edited March 12 by RocketMan275

[havoc315]

1 hour ago, Capitan Obvious said:

 

While it obviously doesn't make any difference, we just have to accept that there are members of this community whose entire focus is on their every nickel and every dime and ensuring that they explore any potential justification to keep those nickels and dimes in their pockets. That is why we constantly rehash this topic. The whole "what does everyone else tip" is just a way to check to see if the person asking can reduce what they are paying.

 

The only reason that person A would ask what person B tips is either to a) ensure they aren't paying way less than others...making them look cheap, or b) ensure that they aren't paying way more than others...and they can "safely" reduce their chosen amount.

 

 

Tips should always be given based on the quantiy of service received, the quality of service received, and the financial budget constraints of the guest. IOW, "tip what you feel is fair based on the service received and staying within your means". That is the answer that should always be given whenever anyone asks about tipping.

I’ve had Europeans visiting the US ask me about tipping practices — not because they were being cheap.  Quite the opposite, because they were not familiar with the customs.  
 

People asking about tipping, in most cases, has nothing to do with being cheap or not wanting to look cheap. In most cases, it’s simply people doing their due diligence to understand whether there is an applicable custom, such as the 15-25% in American restaurants. 

[havoc315]

4 minutes ago, julig22 said:

Huh??? I though what you said was pretty clear, in that you said you know exactly where your additional tips were going when you said:

 

"The only money I’m certain a bartender receives is any cash tip I give them."

Yes —- I’m 100% certain they get the cash tip I hand them. 
 

I have no certainty, whatsoever, about FAS service charges.  
 

The only money I’m certain about is the money I hand them. Other than the money I hand them, I have no idea.  

[havoc315]

11 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

There are imply to many factors to make that conclusion convincing.

well, we go with public information. Of course, it’s always possible public information is wrong. 

 

Edited March 12 by havoc315

[Capitan Obvious]

10 minutes ago, havoc315 said:

I’ve had Europeans visiting the US ask me about tipping practices — not because they were being cheap.  Quite the opposite, because they were not familiar with the customs.  
 

People asking about tipping, in most cases, has nothing to do with being cheap or not wanting to look cheap. In most cases, it’s simply people doing their due diligence to understand whether there is an applicable custom, such as the 15-25% in American restaurants. 

 

Yet they always ask about amounts, never about customs.

[RocketMan275]

That does little to support your contention that the cruise line isn't distributing all the DSC.

Didn't some one say that failure to do so would be a violation of US accounting standards as required for SEC filings?  Now, why would  corporation take such a risk?

[julig22]

11 minutes ago, havoc315 said:

Yes —- I’m 100% certain they get the cash tip I hand them. 
 

I have no certainty, whatsoever, about FAS service charges.  
 

The only money I’m certain about is the money I hand them. Other than the money I hand them, I have no idea.  

So you don't believe in the possibility that the tip you hand to the guy that delivers your drink to you poolside will be shared with the bartender that actually made the drink. I've been told otherwise, that they do pool their tips.

So yes, you may be correct that it goes to the crew, not NCL corporate - but maybe not the individual you just tipped.

[havoc315]

5 minutes ago, julig22 said:

So you don't believe in the possibility that the tip you hand to the guy that delivers your drink to you poolside will be shared with the bartender that actually made the drink. I've been told otherwise, that they do pool their tips.

So yes, you may be correct that it goes to the crew, not NCL corporate - but maybe not the individual you just tipped.

Correct.  

[RocketMan275]

6 minutes ago, julig22 said:

So you don't believe in the possibility that the tip you hand to the guy that delivers your drink to you poolside will be shared with the bartender that actually made the drink. I've been told otherwise, that they do pool their tips.

So yes, you may be correct that it goes to the crew, not NCL corporate - but maybe not the individual you just tipped.

One clue that bartenders are sharing tips is the tip jar on the bar.  It maybe more discrete than that.

[havoc315]

12 minutes ago, Capitan Obvious said:

 

Yet they always ask about amounts, never about customs.

What is the customary amount is asking about the custom. 
 

The questions are often, “what do people usually tip?”

“Usually” is literally a synonym of “customarily”