Norway - Latest News

[shoreguy]

I was lucky enough to have cruised on the Norway... an unforgetable experience. Alot of people loved that ship (myself included) and its really sad to see how things turned out, its too bad she couldnt be put on the National Register of Historic Places (perhaps the SSUS is or could?) When a land based company owns an historic building and restores/takes good care of their building people notice, same thing when they let a building deteriorate until they there is no other option except to tear it down. A piece of maritime history has been lost. Ive followed how Star Cruises handled the situation, as others have, and on a personal note, my choice on which line to cruise with in the future with most likey not include NCL... unless they choose to redeem themselves with their decisions on the SSUS and Indy.

 

Keep in mind as much anger that is being thrown NCL's way the France was at risk of going to the breakers in the 70's when NCL took a huge risk. purchased the rusting ship, sank $85M into her changing the industry and for the first time making the ship the destination.

[srq2003]

Does anybody know when Star Cruises bought NCL? Was it before or after the intial boiler explosion?

[shoreguy]

Does anybody know when Star Cruises bought NCL? Was it before or after the intial boiler explosion?

 

Before - the original plan was to send to ship to Star in 2001 to convert to a gambling/floating hotel.

[LuvBNatC]

I don't believe anything I've read about the transformation of SS France into SS Norway has mentioned the ship being in imminent danger of scrapping while it sat in Le Havre. On the contrary. One of the reasons Knut Kloster (NCL) was so interested in buying it was that it was being meticulously maintained by a French crew (of 80, if memory serves me right).

 

The France when NCL bought it was FAR from being the gutted, rusting derelict that the SSUS has become over the years. After what's happening to the Norway, which was sailing fully functional and full of passengers until the moment of the explosion, which did NOT damage the majority of the ship, if NCL says ONE WORD about bringing the SSUS back into service, I will just chalk it up as another whopping lie.

 

It would seem to be foregone that the Independence is also doomed, since it's been reported that Colin Veitch has said it in so many words.

 

So, in addition to innovating the industry in so many ways over the years (using the Norway to do it, more often than not), NCL can also go down in maritime history as the one who put the stake through the hearts of all the last great ocean liners. (I don't count the QE2 because she's of a younger generation.)

[shoreguy]

I don't believe anything I've read about the transformation of SS France into SS Norway has mentioned the ship being in imminent danger of scrapping while it sat in Le Havre. On the contrary. One of the reasons Knut Kloster (NCL) was so interested in buying it was that it was being meticulously maintained by a French crew (of 80, if memory serves me right).

 

)

 

What have you read ? No it was not stripped like USSS but

 

 

http://www.maritimematters.com/norway.html

 

FRANCE was laid up south of Le Havre, next to a power station. Sealed up and fading with the elements, she was the subject of many rumors, ranging from her use as a hospital ship, floating casino, or hotel, to the most feared option of a premature dispatch to the shipbreakers. In October 1977, she was bought by Akkram Ojjeh, an Arab billionaire, but remained laid up.

Perhaps in part due to the renewed interest in cruising inspired by television's LOVE BOAT series, Norwegian shipping magnate Lauritz Kloster bought her for a cool $18 million. As the shipping world cynically looked on, Kloster spent some $80 million to convert the "cold weather" SS FRANCE into the "warm weather" SS NORWAY.

 

None of use are happy with the outcome but who has a better idea. NCL did not drag the Norway to Germany with no intent of repairing the ship. No lie here. When the cost and time defeated that option they tried to sell it. Where are the white nights from France or the US that could have saved her. The all failed to find a viable home for this classic.

 

Did will really expect Star to pay dockage forever and to keep the ship up. If we owned the ship what would we do. Increase the $35M in loses for last quarter to keep something that had zero future for the company or any buyer.

 

A lot of emotion around this ship. Something will will not see or feel when they start breaking up the boxes of today and that will come a lot sooner then it did for this classic.

[LuvBNatC]

It would take quite a bit of digging for me to locate where I found the mention of the crew of 80 on the France in Le Havre, but I did find this in a book called "SS Norway" by John Maxtone-Graham. Scrapping would have probably been inevitable for the France, but it didn't seem to be in play in 1977. Here's Maxtone-Graham's story:

 

"In 1977, Akram Ojjeh of Saudi Arabia bought the ship for $24 million: he planned converting her into a hotel off the Florida coast. He even bought truckloads of antique furniture from New York’s Wildenstein Galleries to refurnish her public rooms. But subsidiary financing fell through and the scheme was aborted.

"Then came a miraculous reprieve. By the late 70s, Miami had become the cruise capital of the world. Three-quarters of a million passengers passed through the port each year, a third of them booking on the successful Norwegian Caribbean Lines, a subsidiary of the Oslo shipping firm of Klosters Rederi A/S. Knut Ulstein Kloster, third-generation head of the family-owned concern received buoyant reports from Miami...More tonnage--hence more cabins--was needed....

"Two NCL officers, a marketing vice-president and a machine superintendent, flew to Le Havre for a preliminary inspection. Both came away impressed: the high level of workmanship and materials in passenger spaces – of a quality prohibitively expensive nowadays – was complemented by superlative engineering promise below decks. So enthusiastic was their report to Oslo that Kloster took a month’s option to buy the France. Sixty specialists conducted a feasibility study and, at the end of 30 days, concluded that, subject to radical conversion, the France would make an admirable and unique Caribbean cruise ship.”

NCL started with a list of 20 hulls around the world, and the France made every cut. There's no mention of the ship rusting away or being poorly maintained. If that were the case, I should think the challenge of that would have been mentioned here. Kloster bought the ship from Ojjeh for $18 million and we all know what happened after that. Many happy years as Norway. :)

Karen

[Mbee119394]

I would think the german government as well as the malaysian govt. could bring legal acion againststar/ncl for their lies regaurding the norway. they said the ship was going to be fixed and that was the only way germany would let the ship leave because it is unlawful under the Basel Convention to ship any toxic substances outside of the country or to any third world country for disposal. there are documents which prove that star knew that the ship was not going to be repaired. NCL told malaysian authorities when it departed port klang that it was going to the United Arab Emirates to be repaired when it had already been sold for scrap. these documents can be found at: http://www.ssmaritime.com/Norway-NewsUpdates-1.htm

 

This website is obviosly very biased because it is run by a partner of "project dubai." but if you overlook that there are documents that clearly state that everything that Star said they were going to do was not truthful.

 

I know this is an NCL board and please don't kill me for saying this but NCL/ Star was really deceptive with the norway and was wrong and they are going to do the same with the other classic liners they hold. I know corporations are " evil " but NCL really should be ashamed. I am joining the other members and will not sail another NCL ship again until they prove that they will not scrap the other liners they currently hold.

[mbisson]

Absolutely correct. Maybe NCL should be forced out of business over all this! They should've poured millions of $ into a ship that would never return the added investment. Shame on them.

 

-Monte

[Mark]

Mbee,

 

Welcome to the club with many other of us Latitude members who feel the same way...well said!

 

I personally never felt that NCL was the same company after Star took control and will not feel any loss in not sailing with NCL. Believe it or not, prior to the Star purchase, NCL was my favorite line over RCCL and Carnival. Now, I am a RCCL person even though they have their faults as do all other cruise lines...however they provide me with an environment that I personally feel is closest to what the old NCL was like.

 

Honesty is the best policy and if Star / NCL had followed it we would have all respected their actions even though we did not like them.:cool:

[LuvBNatC]

Absolutely, Mark. I don't think anyone is saying that NCL should have driven itself into bankruptcy to save the Norway if they could no longer afford to keep her afloat or get anyone to book a cruise on her.

 

The problem is that NCL strung along the Norway's following for quite a long time after the explosion, giving the hope that she would be returned to service. The ship has had so many miraculous resurrections in the past (the most recent after 9/11 when Star reversed its decision to send the ship to Asia and instead let her come back to Miami), we had no reason to disbelieve NCL this time.

 

However, the truth will eventually come out because there are undoubtedly maritime historians who will want to chronicle the Norway's final days. If it's proven that NCL/Star DID actually engineer the Norway's scrapping by rebuffing reasonable offers to buy her for other commercial purposes (as the ssmaritime.com site has alleged), then the blood is on their hands and they don't deserve future bookings from anyone who loved the Norway. Why continue to do business with a company that has lied to you when you have other options?

 

Karen

[mbisson]

The problem is that NCL strung along the Norway's following for quite a long time after the explosion, giving the hope that she would be returned to service. Karen

 

Again, I'm sure this is correct. NCL never had any intention of fixing the ship. It was pulled across the oceans by tugs just cause they wanted to. We shall overcome, we shall overcome---

 

I'll never cruise them again until they have an itinary, ship and price I want.

 

That's why I'll be on the Sun in less than a month.

 

can't wait

-Monte

[LuvBNatC]

No, NCL had it towed out of the U.S. because they would have had the Coast Guard, the EPA, and every other government watchdog agency breathing down their necks if they tried to pull anything illegal here. Instead, they let the ship cool in Germany until they thought it was safe to sneak it out and carry out their original intention. I personally hope Germany goes after Star with a vengeance in the courts.

 

I really don't see why those who obviously have NO interest in this ship or its history and think this whole situation is a big joke find it necessary to mouth off on this thread. Some posters here have been waiting three YEARS for some resolution. And now that we have it, and it couldn't be worse, we are grieving for the loss of a great vessel.

 

So I for one would appreciate an end to the snide remarks. It's like whistling at a funeral. Thanks. :(

 

Karen

[shoreguy]

Mbee,

 

I personally never felt that NCL was the same company after Star took control and will not feel any loss in not sailing with NCL. Believe it or not, prior to the Star purchase, NCL was my favorite line over RCCL and Carnival. .:cool:

 

I enjoyed NCL before Star but the facts are there would be no NCL. A fleet of small rag tag ships and the Norway on her last legs as the 20 year flagship about to be swallowed up. As a matter of fact I stopped cruising with them for years shortly before Freestyle was introduced. Thought I would hate it.

 

Then came the NCL Star built for Star, the Dawn and the transformation was on to a viable fleet able to compete again and not just on price anymore.

 

Even if the Norway had not had the explosion it would be gone now. As I recall from the captain the ship got just short of a foot to the gallon of bunker fuel.

 

 

We all have choices as to what ship will cruise on. On thing is certain we would have had one less line to cruise if Star had not purchased NCL. Some may not like how they handled the end of Norway but I am delighted they took the risk to bring year round cruising to NYC and with a great modern ship

[mbisson]

I really don't see why those who obviously have NO interest in this ship or its history and think this whole situation is a big joke find it necessary to mouth off on this thread. Some posters here have been waiting three YEARS for some resolution. And now that we have it, and it couldn't be worse, we are grieving for the loss of a great vessel.

 

So I for one would appreciate an end to the snide remarks. It's like whistling at a funeral. Thanks. :(

 

Karen

 

Sorry you're so attached to an inanimate object. Yes, I'm sorry the Norways useful life is over, but all things must end.

 

I would never grieve over the loss of a thing! And great vessel or not, sorry but, the Norway is a thing. I reserve my grieving over important things, like people. Oh, and (slight change of direction) I wasn't aware that this thread was now the property of those "grieving", my mistake.

 

My sons first car was hit in an intersection a while back. We intended to have the car fixed until we found out it would cost more than the car was worth, so we decided against it. We really liked that car but it didn't get a funeral either and no one is grieving, we just moved on. And we might've been whistling as it left the repair shop for the wrecking yard.

 

-Monte

[newlywedcruisers]

Jeez.. I dunno which side to agree with here I see them both.

 

I mean, I wouldn't really mourn if I lost my car (though it would still effect me), becuase to me it's only a normal car and something replacable.

 

On the other hand, I spent some time in New Orleans the summer before Katrina hit, and when I found out that 1. the house that I had stayed in was destroyed, and 2. A house that me and a group of friends had spent 5 days working on was also destoryed, it pretty much made me feel like junk for a few days.

 

So I see the attachment to an object that you have good memories of. However this is a board ABOUT the Norway, which is open to ANYONE, including people that don't have memories of her and are can make remarks about her age and usefullness.

 

My two cents, thanks for reading.

[seahorse]

I enjoyed NCL before Star but the facts are there would be no NCL. A fleet of small rag tag ships and the Norway on her last legs as the 20 year flagship about to be swallowed up. As a matter of fact I stopped cruising with them for years shortly before Freestyle was introduced.

 

 

 

We all have choices as to what ship will cruise on. On thing is certain we would have had one less line to cruise if Star had not purchased NCL. Some may not like how they handled the end of Norway but I am delighted they took the risk to bring year round cruising to NYC and with a great modern ship

 

I stopped SELLING NCL let alone SAILING on NCL until they went to the newer ships and Freestyle. If not for Star........no NCL.

 

I took a chance on taking a group on the SKY when they first went Freestyle......a radio group.......and thank goodness it was successful.......sold my heart out over something I had not experienced:o but I LIKED the concept.

 

The Norway could NEVER fit into this concept. I know for a fact that the American team did not want to scrap The Norway until they had no choice and then it was out of their hands (for whatever reason).

 

I am a cruise person........I sail the ships, not the itinerary....I have all of the Maxtone books. I love ocean liners. That being said.....life moves on. It is not a funeral.......it is an end of an era.

 

There are other worthy causes out there to get passionate about:)

[mbisson]

Ann, forget my previous posts. You said just what I meant.

 

BTW-a couple days b4 the explosion, I had emailed my TA for info about a couple of different sailing dates on the Norway. Too bad we never got the chance.

 

-Monte

[seahorse]

Ann, forget my previous posts. You said just what I meant.

 

BTW-a couple days b4 the explosion, I had emailed my TA for info about a couple of different sailing dates on the Norway. Too bad we never got the chance.

 

-Monte

 

My first cruise was on the Rotterdam.......the OLD one that was built in the 50`s...........what a grand ship........sweeping staircase.........beautiful lines......fantastic ambiance (the main dining room below sea level because she was a true Liner:) ).......huge outside cabin with 3 tiny portholes :eek:

..........double sinks and a huge tub and had towel warming racks. The bathroom was bigger then some of the cabins I have been in since.

 

But she was not "modern" and became unsellable:o They hacked her up quite a bit like the France:( still no-go.

 

The point being.......Holland America is still going strong and I didn`t see anything in the press about any indignation:confused:

[seahorse]

I just found an interesting web site

 

www.midshipcentury.com This gentleman goes to Alang to salvage anything that he can from ships and sells them on line.

 

He is going to Alang to see what he can purchase from the Norway. I would keep an eye on his site if anyone is interested in Norway memorabilia:)

[seaventurer]

From Maritime Matters: BLUE LADY/NORWAY Beached Today

August 15: From Alang: "BLUE LADY/NORWAY beached this morning about 500 meters away, almost same distance as BIG RED BOAT II."

 

Eyewitness Alang

August 14: From our contact: "I saw the lady and waited for her beaching today in Alang. At last minute it was postponed to tomorrow morning (August 15) and she will be at Alang beach at 7:30 AM.

 

"From a distance she is quite a sight: graceful and marvelous are the words that come to me. Sadly, also tied up with two monstrous tugs for her last voyage, though."

 

BLUE LADY

 

QUESTION: How does a classic like the France/Norway get turned in to beer cans...what a shame. (Rhetorical question)

 

BYE Blue Lady...with love...

[A Sixth?]

From Maritime Matters: BLUE LADY/NORWAY Beached Today

August 15: From Alang: "BLUE LADY/NORWAY beached this morning about 500 meters away, almost same distance as BIG RED BOAT II."

 

Eyewitness Alang

August 14: From our contact: "I saw the lady and waited for her beaching today in Alang. At last minute it was postponed to tomorrow morning (August 15) and she will be at Alang beach at 7:30 AM.

 

"From a distance she is quite a sight: graceful and marvelous are the words that come to me. Sadly, also tied up with two monstrous tugs for her last voyage, though."

 

BLUE LADY

 

QUESTION: How does a classic like the France/Norway get turned in to beer cans...what a shame. (Rhetorical question)

 

BYE Blue Lady...with love...

 

Sad, but nothing lasts forever.

 

Take it as a reminder, you can always make more money, you can not make more time

[Globaliser]

Lots of discussion, information and interest on this existing thread.

[Mbee119394]

I hope some media agency does an investigation of the yards in alang. I saw a discovery channel special on it once but maybe if a dateline type show did something about it maybe people would care more about the true crimes that are being committed over in India. It's a shame that thousands of tons of asbestos is going to be released on the workers as well as into the ocean overthere. One word of advice, i wouldn't go swimming in the indian ocean for awhile.

[electricron]

Does anybody know when Star Cruises bought NCL? Was it before or after the intial boiler explosion?

Here's a brief timeline for the SS France/Norway and NCL.

 

May 11, 1960 > SS France launched

January 18, 1962 > SS France commences first commercial cruise

February 3, 1962 > SS France commences first Atlantic crossing.

1966 > NCL starts Carribean cruises from Miami with one ship, the 16,000 gross ton Sunward.

1966 to 1979 > NCL adds 1960's/70's-built cruise ships (the 17,000 gross ton Southward, the 16,000 gross ton Starward, and Skyward) were sailing at or beyond capacity under the moniker of Norwegian Caribbean Lines (later Norwegian Cruise Lines).

October 25, 1974 > SS France retired

1979 > NCL buys SS France for $18 million.

August 1979 > SS France enters shipyard for $80 million conversion into SS Norway.

1980 > SS Norway commences first commercial cruise.

1990 > NCL adds two decks to SS Norway during $40 millon major overhaul

March 2000 > Star Cruises buys NCL

May 25, 2003 > SS Norway experiences boiler explosion killing 7 crew members and injuring 14 more

June 27, 2003 > SS Norway departs Miami

July 21, 2003 > SS Norway arrives in Bremehaven Germany.

March 17, 2004 > Colin Veitch announces that the SS Norway would not return to the North American cruise market.

May 2005 > SS Norway departs Bremehaven

August 10, 2005 > SS Norway arrives under tow at Port Klang, Malaysia

January to April 2006 > Rumors suggest the SS Norway sold to scrappers, named changed to Blue Lady

May 5, 2006 > Blue Lady is towed away from Port Klang, Malaysia

June 14, 2006 > Blue Lady arrives at Fujairah, UAE

June 17, 2006 > Blue Lady departs Fujairah, UAE

June 30, 2006 > Blue Lady arrives at Pipavav Port, some 65 km south west of Alang

August 1, 2006 > India's Supreme Court Technical Committee grants Gujarat Maritime Board (GMB) permission to beach Blue Lady

August 15, 2006 > Blue Lady beached at Alang.

[jla418]

Hey Ann...Check out http://www.ssrotterdam.net. At least when the SS Rotterdam became obsolete and could no longer find a line to use her, a group of Dutch people were able to purchase her and are in the process of restoring her for a static attraction in Rotterdam.

 

Too bad this did not occur in the case of the SS France/Norway/Blue Lady.