Strange business practice by HAL

[Juanita462]

When we got our docs we also got our confirmation receipt from HAL.

the amount for the cruise was less that what we paid so we contacted our TA about the discrepancy.

It appears that after we paid the final payment a tax was reduced but the difference was not passed back to us. The rep at HAL said that when this happens if the client doesn't say anything the amount is given to the TA as an extra bonus.

 

I was floored - surely the refund belongs to the pax and should have been given back.

 

Has anyone else had this happen?

[kryos]

I was floored - surely the refund belongs to the pax and should have been given back.

 

Has anyone else had this happen?

Sounds to me like that refund belongs to the passenger. Now, if it is a small amount, the passenger may opt to tell the TA to keep it ... but it doesn't sound to me like the TA or HAL should consider it a TA's "bonus."

 

If I found out that my TA kept it ... without at least asking my permission before doing so ... I would first of all raise holy you know what until that amount was refunded to me, and then make sure I never used that TA again.

 

That sort of behavior on the part of a TA is dishonest ... plain and simple. The refund belongs to the passenger without a doubt.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[CCCM]

We just got our docs and there was no confirmation receipt. Does everyone get one? I agree that the TA should have let you know about this.

[DD]

Before you massacre your travel agent, consider that many agents do not pass on decreases OR INCREASES in taxes to the passenger. I can not begin to tell you how many $3 - $5 tax increases there have been per person this past Alaska sailing. I have eaten them ALL. The times that a decrease happens are few and far between. If, in the past, your agent has eaten the increase, they may feel justified in keeping the decrease. We are normally talking about very small amounts of money by the way. The typical increase is $3 - $5. I could waste 30 minutes of time trying to explain to a passenger why their cruise rate has increased by $3.67 and why they are responsible for paying it because it's in the fine print of the contract. I generally don't bother and so I end up eating it. So don't come looking for blood if this time your agent kept a couple dollars. If you review all your past transacations with the agent, most likely he/she has taken a loss on previous taxes with you.

 

Also, in the vast majority of cases, we as agents are never notified of the tax increase or decrease until after we have already taken final payment from the client. We go to call in the payment and the cruiseline is like, "Oh, you owe an extra $4.18 per person." Would you as the cruiser like us to call you back and ask for that amount? I don't because I think it's cheap & cheesy. At the same time, I don't expect my clients to think I'm a thief when the situation is reversed (and it RARELY is reversed--I had ONE decrease all summer and dozens of increases).

[CCCM]

DD - thank you for explaining this to us. It is appreciated.

[cruisergrandma]

I have a different problem with HAL.

 

When I got my tickets there were transfer vouchers that I had not ordered. I checked my credit card statement and found that indeed I had been charged for them. TA says that HAL's system automatically defaults to include these and must have done so after she called in final payment. So, without my authorization HAL went ahead and charged me for transfers. I have been working for 2 weeks (my cruise sails Sept. 9th) and still have not gotten this reversed. Guess I will have to let the credit card company take care of it.

 

Anyone else have this happen?

[newmexicoNita]

Before you massacre your travel agent, consider that many agents do not pass on decreases OR INCREASES in taxes to the passenger. I can not begin to tell you how many $3 - $5 tax increases there have been per person this past Alaska sailing. I have eaten them ALL. The times that a decrease happens are few and far between. If, in the past, your agent has eaten the increase, they may feel justified in keeping the decrease. We are normally talking about very small amounts of money by the way. The typical increase is $3 - $5. I could waste 30 minutes of time trying to explain to a passenger why their cruise rate has increased by $3.67 and why they are responsible for paying it because it's in the fine print of the contract. I generally don't bother and so I end up eating it. So don't come looking for blood if this time your agent kept a couple dollars. If you review all your past transacations with the agent, most likely he/she has taken a loss on previous taxes with you.

 

Also, in the vast majority of cases, we as agents are never notified of the tax increase or decrease until after we have already taken final payment from the client. We go to call in the payment and the cruiseline is like, "Oh, you owe an extra $4.18 per person." Would you as the cruiser like us to call you back and ask for that amount? I don't because I think it's cheap & cheesy. At the same time, I don't expect my clients to think I'm a thief when the situation is reversed (and it RARELY is reversed--I had ONE decrease all summer and dozens of increases).

I agree completely. The thing that amazes me: the docs went directly to the cliant. Normally they are sent to the agency. We always go over them, make certain everythingn is correct and send them on. Had that been done, the final receipt wouldn't have even been there probably. I really don't remember a conformation receipt. Maybe I need to pay more attention. NMNita

[Krazy Kruizers]

Where are you cruising that HAL automatically billed you for transfers???

Are you using HAL air??

[sail7seas]

We have NEVER had a confirmation included with our documents. I have been present in my TA's office when she opened the mailing envelope from HAL and I watched her remove the docs from the envelope. No Confirmation Receipt.

 

For a while, I noticed that our confirmations came through with a transfer fee which we did not want. I informed my TA to have it removed. It was. We were never charged for it. Your TA should have seen that on the Confirmation (s)he received at the time of your booking and it should have been dealt with then.

 

I am sure they will get the cost removed. You are right; they should not have automatically charged your for transfers you did not request.

 

Enjoy your short countdown.

Have a great cruise.

 

 

 

[elmorejj]

I have noticed lately on the HAL website, when you go to price a cruise, even though you click on the no transfers, no airfare etc, the price table will come up with transfers priced in the fare. I`ll have to watch out that they haven`t included them when I get my next docs..........jean:cool:

[drdaddy]

I have also noticed that HAL automatically tacks on $48 transfers. An online only agency I have used before had this on their quote, also. It seems that HAL assumes that there are less and less people cruising from their home ports. The Ft. Lauderdale newspaper had an article just yesterday at stated that something like 24% of passengers traveling out of Port of Miami and Everglades are local. That is some big number because even though many ships have been positioned out of Miami and Port Everglades, they are still #1 and #2 ports in the US.

 

All my paperwork from my TA shows no transfers and does not reflect a charge. The tax thing though. I am sure most of us would never, ever see this because what another poster said about the TA checking the docs before we pax see them. I am sure this is the it happens.

 

But I also what DD says and I guess it do work both ways. In most cases.

[Copper10-8]

I have a different problem with HAL.

 

When I got my tickets there were transfer vouchers that I had not ordered. I checked my credit card statement and found that indeed I had been charged for them. TA says that HAL's system automatically defaults to include these and must have done so after she called in final payment. So, without my authorization HAL went ahead and charged me for transfers. I have been working for 2 weeks (my cruise sails Sept. 9th) and still have not gotten this reversed. Guess I will have to let the credit card company take care of it.

 

Anyone else have this happen?

 

We rarely ever take the option to get HAL transfer vouchers and use a taxi or shuttle instead. If you didn't want them and you got them anyway, they should be returned by your TA and your credit card should be fully credited by HAL. It's up to your TA, not you, to contact HAL and get that resolved.

Have a great cruise in a week!:)

[hammybee]

I have noticed lately on the HAL website, when you go to price a cruise, even though you click on the no transfers, no airfare etc, the price table will come up with transfers priced in the fare. I`ll have to watch out that they haven`t included them when I get my next docs..........jean:cool:

 

I have noticed this too. And perhaps the T/A's are in the same boat. Regadless, the T/A knows if the client wants a transfer or not ,and has the responsibility and obligation to opt their client out.

[hammybee]

Before you massacre your travel agent, consider that many agents do not pass on decreases OR INCREASES in taxes to the passenger. I can not begin to tell you how many $3 - $5 tax increases there have been per person this past Alaska sailing. I have eaten them ALL. The times that a decrease happens are few and far between. If, in the past, your agent has eaten the increase, they may feel justified in keeping the decrease. We are normally talking about very small amounts of money by the way. The typical increase is $3 - $5. I could waste 30 minutes of time trying to explain to a passenger why their cruise rate has increased by $3.67 and why they are responsible for paying it because it's in the fine print of the contract. I generally don't bother and so I end up eating it. So don't come looking for blood if this time your agent kept a couple dollars. If you review all your past transacations with the agent, most likely he/she has taken a loss on previous taxes with you.

 

Also, in the vast majority of cases, we as agents are never notified of the tax increase or decrease until after we have already taken final payment from the client. We go to call in the payment and the cruiseline is like, "Oh, you owe an extra $4.18 per person." Would you as the cruiser like us to call you back and ask for that amount? I don't because I think it's cheap & cheesy. At the same time, I don't expect my clients to think I'm a thief when the situation is reversed (and it RARELY is reversed--I had ONE decrease all summer and dozens of increases).

 

Thanks for the education and perspective that we are talking about a few dollars. I agree that it's certainly easier to eat the difference than explain the change in tax and collect it. And when the difference works the other way, it makes sense the TA keeps it. Too bad the HAL rep did not give the passenger the business rational.

[FLACRUISER99]

The only problem is that it is illegal to collect a government tax and keep it.:eek:

[Juanita462]

Exactly - and that is why the lower amount was shown on our confirmation receipt. This receipt was only given to us for proof of our $50 shipboard credit with HAL. It was $26.50, not three or five dollars and we have paid extra tax dollars when they were raised - the last one was $22 so if we pay for the increases we should be given the decreases automatically.

 

The money belongs to the client and they should have the right to receive it or give it away.

[RevNeal]

Exactly - and that is why the lower amount was shown on our confirmation receipt. This receipt was only given to us for proof of our $50 shipboard credit with HAL. It was $26.50, not three or five dollars and we have paid extra tax dollars when they were raised - the last one was $22 so if we pay for the increases we should be given the decreases automatically.

 

The money belongs to the client and they should have the right to receive it or give it away.

 

I have to agree with Juanita. This kind of difference should be refunded to the client, not just kept by the TA. A couple or five dollars ... yeah ... it's not worth the paperwork. But $26.50!? While not a huge amount of money, it is certainly substantial-enough to demand actual refund. I think the principle of (1) if the passenger would have to pay it, the passenger should get it back; (2) if the TA were to absorb it, then the TA should get it back ... makes perfect sense to me. I've had TAs absorb two or five dollar increases before; but I've been refunded thirty and fifty dollar decreases. And, I happen to know that my TA has not passed on two and five dollar "refunds" to me ... and I don't mind that. But I would mind if they kept $25.

 

As for a confirmation with my documentation ... I've never had one before, but wouldn't mind having one from the cruise line. All I've ever gotten is what my TA sends me from their office plus (sometimes) a copy of the fax receipt they get from HAL.

[DD]

We have NEVER had a confirmation included with our documents. I have been present in my TA's office when she opened the mailing envelope from HAL and I watched her remove the docs from the envelope. No Confirmation Receipt.

 

For a while, I noticed that our confirmations came through with a transfer fee which we did not want. I informed my TA to have it removed. It was. We were never charged for it. Your TA should have seen that on the Confirmation (s)he received at the time of your booking and it should have been dealt with then.

 

I am sure they will get the cost removed. You are right; they should not have automatically charged your for transfers you did not request.

 

Enjoy your short countdown.

Have a great cruise.

 

 

 

 

I agree with this post. That was your TA's job to check to make sure that transfers were not on there. As agents, we get copies of the reservation when we make it, when we deposit it, and after final payment. Mistakes happen, agents miss seeing the transfers; however, that's part of the TA's job to catch them. If he/she missed them, he/she needs to pay for them. You, as the client, should not be responsible for the cost.

[DD]

The only problem is that it is illegal to collect a government tax and keep it.:eek:

 

We gave you a price including a discount; you agreed to it. We honored that price.

[DD]

Exactly - and that is why the lower amount was shown on our confirmation receipt. This receipt was only given to us for proof of our $50 shipboard credit with HAL. It was $26.50, not three or five dollars and we have paid extra tax dollars when they were raised - the last one was $22 so if we pay for the increases we should be given the decreases automatically.

 

The money belongs to the client and they should have the right to receive it or give it away.

 

That's a HUGE tax difference. That one I would never keep or eat. Well, actually if you were a good client, I would eat it. What type cruise was this? The largest one I've ever seen was $14 per person and that was for a very long cruise. On your standard 7 night cruise, a $26.50 increase/decrease is quite rare. Where was the cruise headed?

[kryos]

Before you massacre your travel agent, consider that many agents do not pass on decreases OR INCREASES in taxes to the passenger. I can not begin to tell you how many $3 - $5 tax increases there have been per person this past Alaska sailing. I have eaten them ALL.

I didn't realize that. Then maybe I was a bit too harsh. However, that said, I still believe in full disclosure. You should provide your customers with a receipt indicating that ... or some sort of disclaimer that lets them know you eat those increases, and will keep any decreases.

 

Keeps the level of understanding up ... and the customers don't feel like they got "taken" in this case. Although, if these increases/decreases are only like $3 - $5 dollars, they're probably not worth getting excited about anyway.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[Opinions]

We gave you a price including a discount; you agreed to it. We honored that price.

 

So if HAL lowers the price after booking, your clients will never receive that reduction?

[bfwraw]

Cruiser Grandma are you sailing on the Odam to Alaska on 9/9? I thought at one time there was a reply on the thread. I was attempting to get a thread going for that cruise, but not much luck.

[hammybee]

The only problem is that it is illegal to collect a government tax and keep it.:eek:

 

Pesky details....Thanks. I forgot about that part.

[DD]

So if HAL lowers the price after booking, your clients will never receive that reduction?

 

That's not what I said. However, if someone books with me rather than directly with the cruiseline, and as a result saves hundreds of dollars (which happens frequently), I do not expect to be nickel and dimed over $3 - $5. If the tax goes up, I pay it on behalf of the client.

 

The example in this thread is extreme. It's exceptionally rare to have a tax go down by $26 considering the majority of taxes on a standard 7 night cruise are $30 - $60 in total (I'm not talking about "port charges"). Yes, there are higher ones. In general though, we're dealing with very small amounts of money. Would I notify a client if their tax went down by $26 per person? Absolutely, and I would definitely refund something like that. Would you also, though, like me to notify a client whose tax went down by seventeen cents? Yes, really, I've seen a 17 cent decrease. How exactly does one process a seventeen cent refund? Fortunately, I didn't have a client on the sailing so there was no great ethical dilemma.

 

Taxes have gone up on cruises this summer more than I can even keep track of. It's just common anymore, particularly with certain lines and to certain destinations. Yes, I have a disclaimer on my invoices notifying you that if taxes go up, you're liable. Yes, that same disclaimer is in the cruiseline's contract. Do I want to spend a couple hours a week chasing a couple dollars, ticking off good clients, explaining and re-explalining that I have the right to collect the extra money? No, customer service is more important than a couple bucks.

 

I suppose the other method of doing business goes like this:

 

Client: "I'm calling to make final payment. I owe $X."

 

TA: after reviewing the reservation, accepts the $X payment. TA calls the cruiseline and is informed that the tax went up $2.65 per person.

 

TA then calls the client and says, "Sorry sir but the taxes went up by $2.65 and I know that you have an invoice that says the taxes are lower but if you read the fine print you'll see that the cruiseline reserves the right to increase the taxes at any time. You'll also see that we reserve the right to collect that tax directly from you. And, yes, sir, I did advise you of this when you booked the cruise but you told me that I didn't know what I was talking about because you had never heard of this happening before. You tried to tell me that I didn't know my business and I just decided not to argue with you about it when you booked. In fact, you told me that you'd been on at least a dozen cruises already and you know the cruise business and you know that I'm completely wrong when I tell you that taxes could increase and I'm probably trying to scam you. So, now, I guess I'm calling to say, "I told you so and I WANT MY TWO DOLLARS."

 

Seriously, that's how it would go. Just in case you're wondering, no, I would never actually do that, but that's what would actually have to happen if I didn't choose to pay the extra tax on my client's behalf.

 

So now that I typed all that out, that silly 80s movie where the little kid kept stalking the big kid and screaming, "I WANT MY TWO DOLLARS," is now running rampant through my brain ;)