Straights attending FOD meetings

[sjbdtz]

I've said this in the NCL forum....I'd welcome cruising WITH derf (not to be confused with cruising derf!), anytime.

 

He's one of the very few people with a genuine sense of humour, and an ability to see both sides (he for example is the one who will ask whether a wet T-shirt contest applies to the hottie hunks as well as the chiquittas)...not a bad attitude for a str8 guy, IMHO.

 

Derf...you're welcome here in my books, and to the FOD gatherings.

 

I've always just assumed they represented a time & place where a potentially marginalized group may realize they are not alone. And frankly a positive het is just as much an ally as another gay person.

 

On our Baltics cruise (when NCL took us to Norway on the Jewel), we brought our str8 friend who was travelling with us, to the meetings. He was a hit...the other guys kept trying to figure out how to "convert" him!!!

I've known him for 30 years, and he's totally cool...but it was funny watching him squirm a little!

 

We call the objects of our successful gaydar sightings "team-players". Look at him.... what do you think....team-player?

 

 

I think the principle of the FOD is really just a "safe-space"....and as long as the non LGBT attendees don't compromise the "safe-space" aspect, then more power to them.

 

Frankly if you're walking through a university (I do this, for work) there are many rooms identified as Queer-positive or SAFE SPACES with a rainbow flag...with no committment whatsoever that the people on the other side of the door ARE gay...just that they'll apply their resources to protect us.

[marcanbr]

I have a question. I am going on the Conquest in April. Are the FOD partys sponsored by the cruise line? How do you find out about them? Thanks

[txflyer]

I have a question. I am going on the Conquest in April. Are the FOD partys sponsored by the cruise line? How do you find out about them? Thanks

 

The ship's staff will set the time and place... and will list the information in the daily Carnival Capers. If its a 7 day or longer cruise, you can expect to have more than one on the schedule. We always try to attend the first one so we can meet others to socialize with during the trip.

[txflyer]

Yep that's me. I remember you. how you been ?

Weve been great...and occasionally think of you and your frequent cruise history. (what was it.... 24+ in 3 years?....airline retirement has its privileges!) We hope our paths cross again sometime...

[bhopal21]

We most always cruise with friends of ours (a straight couple) and they always attend the FOD gatherings with us by choice. They are great friends and if anyone has ever been uncomfortable it has gone unnoticed.

 

Mike:)

[themnms]

I have a question. I am going on the Conquest in April. Are the FOD partys sponsored by the cruise line? How do you find out about them? Thanks

 

Hello

 

we will be on the Conquest April 1st, are you on that week as well?

 

Anyways,every day they will publish the meeting area and times for the FOD get togethers. We were on the Valor in Jan and thats why they did

 

Have fun

[marcanbr]

We will be on the Conquest April 15th.

[tinlizzy]

I know this is several pages back but I'm exactly the kind of person that would have wondered into your meeting accidentally.

 

I saw Friends of Dorothy on old carnival capers or RCL planners last night and could not figure out what this was. I did a search and came here.

 

Now if I had been on the boat....I would have walked to the meeting... LOL, then sat politely through it, because I would have felt that leaving abruptly would have seemed...oh homophobic.

 

I still don't get the correlation between Dorothy and a gay meeting. Please fill me in.

[derf5585]

I still don't get the correlation between Dorothy and a gay meeting. Please fill me in.

 

The origin of the term is unknown and there are various theories. Most commonly it has been linked to the film The Wizard of Oz because Judy Garland, who starred as the main character Dorothy, is often noted as a major icon in the gay community

from

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friend_of_Dorothy

[tinlizzy]

Thanks Derf- I can't believe I never heard that expression before.

[iluvdoxies]

Weve been great...and occasionally think of you and your frequent cruise history. (what was it.... 24+ in 3 years?....airline retirement has its privileges!) We hope our paths cross again sometime...

 

Glad y'all been well ! We leave in 6 days on the Legend, wooohoo.

 

Take care and would love to see you on a cruise again !

[txflyer]

The origin of the term is unknown and there are various theories. Most commonly it has been linked to the film The Wizard of Oz because Judy Garland, who starred as the main character Dorothy, is often noted as a major icon in the gay community

from

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friend_of_Dorothy

 

 

Its good to see you, Derf! We always enjoy the reference links you include with your postings.. ..>>jack

[aaerobear]

Derf is always on the mark.

 

Txflyer, what airline did you retire from? I retired from Northwest in Oct 2005 (after 40 years)

 

Ed

[Ephraim]

Please remember that Wikipedia is not an authoritative resource for information. Anyone (including me) can edit an article and their pedigree is questionable.

 

Some of the articles have been locked because of all the changes and infighting in them. Ghandi and Mother Theresa come to mind as they are both very controversial characters. (Ghandi made some disparaging remarks about blacks, Mother Theresa accepted money from known dictators and terrorists).

 

This particular Wikipedia article doesn't cite any resources, so there is nothing to backup the statements. It's just something that someone wrote with nothing to prove that it's right (or wrong).

 

There are claims that it might also relate to Dorothy Parker who used to welcome Gays and Lesbians.

 

On a personal note, both RCCL and NCL are members of the IGLTA and shouldn't be hiding their support for the Gay and Lesbian community behinds such terms. Being a member of the IGLTA should mean more than simply paying lip service because you want our money. The other mainstream cruise company that is a member is Oceania. Carnival is not a member. Guess they are saving the entire $550 a year for something else. The ICCL association is a member.

[sjbdtz]

My understanding was that it was because of the subtext of Oz, where an innocent person (Dorothy) was whisked away in her imagination, to a colourful land of interesting things, and sang about how somewhere over the rainbow where

 

 

"Some day I'll wish upon a star

And wake up where the clouds are far behind me

Where troubles melt like lemondrops

Away above the chimney tops

That's where you'll find me Somewhere over the rainbow

Bluebirds fly

Birds fly over the rainbow

Why then, oh why can't I?"

 

much like many suburban gay kids would feel that there MUST be a better life than the heterosexually-fixated societal prison in which they find themselves....and that anybody looking for that place Over the Rainbow (like the flag), must be a Friend, of Dorothy's.

[Schplinky]

I thought it was Dorothy Parker and not Dorothy from Oz, too.

 

A friend asked me what the whole thing was with gay men and Judy Garland and I honestly could not say. I'm not sure I've ever seen a movie with her in it (including that movie about Oz).

[txflyer]

Derf is always on the mark.

 

Txflyer, what airline did you retire from? I retired from Northwest in Oct 2005 (after 40 years)

 

Ed

 

ummm...I havent retired yet...Wish I could but its kinda far off in the future. ..>>jack

[tinlizzy]

Thanks for all the answers.

 

I didn't think Dorothy of Wizard of Oz either until I read "honorary totos" in a post. There is a line from the movie where Glenda the good witch (I think- could have been the scarecrow) says "Are you a friend of Dorothy?" I figured the actor she spoke this line to was gay and it became an inside joke.

 

Ephraim- corporations are certainly spineless chameleons. I noticed that the AA meetings were called Friends of Bill W.

[sjbdtz]

Thanks for all the answers.

 

I didn't think Dorothy of Wizard of Oz either until I read "honorary totos" in a post. There is a line from the movie where Glenda the good witch (I think- could have been the scarecrow) says "Are you a friend of Dorothy?" I figured the actor she spoke this line to was gay and it became an inside joke.

 

Ephraim- corporations are certainly spineless chameleons. I noticed that the AA meetings were called Friends of Bill W.

 

 

I think the code-names aren't for the protection of the corporation, but rather to give some anonymity to the guests who don't necessarily want their affiliations widely known.

[Schplinky]

I think the code-names aren't for the protection of the corporation, but rather to give some anonymity to the guests who don't necessarily want their affiliations widely known.

 

Oh, I think it's both! I'd be very happy with ships calling them GLBT gatherings but I think they don't want anti-gay folks stomping up to Guest Services and frothing at the mouth about family values.

 

I don't think too many people who need anonymity would come to a FOD. If their friends saw them, they would have to epplain why they were hanging out with "those" people.

[Ephraim]

Ephraim- corporations are certainly spineless chameleons. I noticed that the AA meetings were called Friends of Bill W.

 

Actually, I think that is a common name used for AA meetings. I didn't realize what the meeting was the first time that I saw it. We figured that someone named Bill W. had invited his friends on board. By the next cruise we realized that something was up and asked someone.

 

(Joke time... Good thing, we were planning on grabbing a drink and trying to crash the meeting :D )

 

Honestly, I think the change that Princess has made is a nice change. I really gave it to NCL about the fact that their meeting wasn't hosted. When ever you have the situation of open dining (as on Princess and NCL) it is the job of the cruise company to introduce different groups. Frankly, as far as I'm concerned, they could have meetings for red hats, teachers, military (active or retired), Canadians, Francophones , Polyglots or even people who can juggle, they should be able to find someone to host it, even if it's just for the first 15 minutes so that people have a common person to do introductions. Heck, isn't that the point of being a cruise host?

 

Incidentally, there are a lot of corporations that aren't spineless. It just depends on the fight. IBM and Monsanto stood up to the Arab boycott of Israel. My bank (Bank of Montreal) has given my huzband and I spousal discounts on our accounts since we took out our mortgage with them, over 15 years ago. (In fact, corporate policy is to use the term spouse at all times to refer to couples in order to not indicate sex.) And our previous car insurance company (The Personal, owned by Desjardins) has given us the married discount on our car insurance for 15 years. Sometimes, you just have to ask them to step up to the plate and they will. Other times, they just cower to it.

[derf5585]

Please remember that Wikipedia is not an authoritative resource for information. Anyone (including me) can edit an article and their pedigree is questionable.

 

In my heart I know you are correct. However everytime I have referenced Wikipedia for a link I haven't hear anything back yet about it being false. As I have heard that to internet is about 10 percent is true 20 percent is false and 70 percent is porn. (Anyone have definitive percentages?)

[Ephraim]

Wikipedia is only as good as it's contributors and only as bad as it's contributors.

 

I'll give you a few examples. Besides the two examples that I gave you earlier of Ghandi and Mother Theresa there are numerous other problems with Wikipedia including the fact that one of their most prolific writers (Essjay) has editted over 20000 entries. He claimed he was a University professor of theology, instead he was unmasked as a college drop-out.

 

Articles on any controversial subject are often defaced or modified, including articles on Gays, Lesbians, Bisexuals, Israel, Palestine and Ireland, just to name a few. If you look up the history of the Likud on the site, you don't see any reference to the Altalena (though there is an article on the Altalena listed). The history of the Altalena is so important to Herut (and the Likud party) that their head office in Tel Aviv has a model of the ship at the top.

 

Then you have the problem of perspective. Most Americans see Benedict Arnold as a traitor, but in Canada and Britain, he is a hero and loyal. Don't even start looking at more controversial people because it's a never ending fight. That's the reason many articles are locked.

 

Any article that has a note about it being locked is subject of controversy. Wikipedia is as reliable source of information as Scooter Libby.

[Schplinky]

Actually, I think that is a common name used for AA meetings. I didn't realize what the meeting was the first time that I saw it. We figured that someone named Bill W. had invited his friends on board. By the next cruise we realized that something was up and asked someone.

 

(Joke time... Good thing, we were planning on grabbing a drink and trying to crash the meeting :D )

 

Honestly, I think the change that Princess has made is a nice change. I really gave it to NCL about the fact that their meeting wasn't hosted. When ever you have the situation of open dining (as on Princess and NCL) it is the job of the cruise company to introduce different groups. Frankly, as far as I'm concerned, they could have meetings for red hats, teachers, military (active or retired), Canadians, Francophones , Polyglots or even people who can juggle, they should be able to find someone to host it, even if it's just for the first 15 minutes so that people have a common person to do introductions. Heck, isn't that the point of being a cruise host?

 

Incidentally, there are a lot of corporations that aren't spineless. It just depends on the fight. IBM and Monsanto stood up to the Arab boycott of Israel. My bank (Bank of Montreal) has given my huzband and I spousal discounts on our accounts since we took out our mortgage with them, over 15 years ago. (In fact, corporate policy is to use the term spouse at all times to refer to couples in order to not indicate sex.) And our previous car insurance company (The Personal, owned by Desjardins) has given us the married discount on our car insurance for 15 years. Sometimes, you just have to ask them to step up to the plate and they will. Other times, they just cower to it.

 

Ephraim,

 

I agree with you, almost.

 

I agree that it sounds like Princess is at the forefront of the cruise industry in this way, calling the meeting a GLBT meeting and hosting it as well. There should be no need for codes in this day and age on either side of the fence (us hiding behind them or others being affronted by us).

 

I agree that some companies will step up if you ask, some cannot even when they would normally want to. I was reading in the Advocate the other day about a company that was prevented from continuing to offer partne benefits because their state had introduced a ban on these for all but married (in the traditional sense) folk, in order to discourage same-sex couples. Those that forced this through likely hurt a lot more straights than gays (when you think of all the common-law partners out there) but from the point of view of these bigots, it's genius. Only they get to keep their benefits while everyone else has to pay for them.

[txflyer]

Oh, I think it's both! I'd be very happy with ships calling them GLBT gatherings but I think they don't want anti-gay folks stomping up to Guest Services and frothing at the mouth about family values.

 

I guess Princess hasnt had any problems with complaints.. in the Patter the meetings are listed, "Rainbow GLBT Get-Together, Meet the 'Family' at the Bar for cocktails and introductions"

(You can see it on Page 2 at 530pm) <---following Derf, including a reference link!