Wow. Pride of Hawaii Taken Out of Hawaii Service - to be moved to Europe!

[aldewitt]

My wife, daughter, son, and three of our closest friends are boarding the Pride of Aloha for a Hawaiian cruise on June 3, 2007. We’ve cruised previously on the Pride of America, and on the Norwegian Star when it did the Fanning Island run. NCL's advertising is hurting NCL’s image, and failing to capture what is really great about NCL cruising, and specifically, what's great about Hawaii. I say this as a consumer, not as some expert on advertising.

 

The reason NCL is sending the Pride of Hawaii to Europe for 2008 is not because the market in Hawaii has saturated, or because they're a victim of their own success. It’s because no one out here in the heartland understands cruising in general, so they don’t understand freestyle cruising in particular. Their advertising attempts to separate them from the competition, but they've chosen the wrong competition! When they air their commercial showing everyone marching in lockstep to the dining room, they create the impression that this is what cruising in general is all about. Their images do not show the spacious decks, but present a cramped image. Their commercials do not talk about what is great about cruising, but rather, what’s bad about the other guys approach. In short, their commercials would not convince me to try cruising because they only make sense if you’ve been on Princess, Holland-America, Royal Caribbean, or Carnival.

 

In short, they're not competing so much against Princess and Carnival for the Hawaii market as they are against the Hilton Hawaiian Village and the Maui Beach Resort. When people go to Hawaii, they’re often happy with sitting on one beach for seven days. Their commercials need to educate them to the advantages of a floating hotel and five star restaurant that’s all inclusive. Customers need to understand how great it is to wake up in a different port every other day. We cruise in Hawaii (1) because you actually pay less for a cabin with meals than you do a hotel room without meals, (2) because it’s all inclusive and therefore much more convenient; and (3) because you get the whole island experience, not just one island.

 

NCL needs to consider getting a focus group of cruisers together and have them lay out for you what keeps them coming back, and what kinds of questions they get asked by people who’ve never cruised. They need to cruise through Cruise Critic and read the reviews and listen to the observations of people who are first-time cruisers. If they can read those questions, they can learn from them and target their commercials more effectively.

 

That's my thoughts anyway.:)

[daveco58]

I think that one of the other things one would need to look at is the special arrangements and exemptions that were put in place for NCL to set up NCLA. After all, none of the three NCLA ships qualifies for a US flag under the normal rules.

 

Actually, the Pride of America does. It is a US built hull, which is the normal requirement to be a US flagged vessel.

A lot is made of all the supposed special arrangements to allow NCLA to be created, but the only real exception was allowing foreign built ships to be flagged in the US. Once that was done, everything else is in compliance with the Passenger Services (Jones) Act.

Had they reached a little higher, they might have got around the requirement for a US crew, which certainly would have been in their best interest.

[aldewitt]

Perhaps Hawaii will reconsider its ban on gambling on the US Flagged ships so they can compete better.

 

 

Very bad idea unless it gets a cut from the revenues. Gambling, like state lotteries, is a way for the government to tax people based on their inability to do probabilities and statistics.

[Bennett'sCruise]

The reason NCL is sending the Pride of Hawaii to Europe for 2008 is not because the market in Hawaii has saturated, or because they're a victim of their own success.

 

I don't agree. All you have to do is see all the deployments of ships from the West Coast R/T Hawaii for 2007 and 2008. They are 10-15 day cruises and extremely attractive and popular. In fact, it's hard for some cruise lines to get into some Hawaiian ports because NCLA and Princess has them *sewn up*. The prices for these West Coast R/T cruises have gone waaaay up for 2008 ...

AND, with the decommissioning of the Dream ... NCL needed something to put into the Baltics starting in 08. Not sure which ship that will be ... but just about every other mainstream cruiseline has a 90,000T ship on the Baltics/NoEurope run.

It will be interesting to see what happens next ...

BTW: I LOVE NCL's new advertising campaign ... but, you're right, I've never thought about it from a non-cruiser stand point.

We're huge fans of NCL ... and hope they do well. Things they are pioneering seem to be taken up by other cruise lines in one form or another ...

~d

[flag fan]

aldewitt, I agree completely with your comment about the advertising being focused on the wrong group. NCL may want to lure cruisers from other lines onto their ships, but NCLA's target audience are land-based tourists, people that want to go to Hawaii and might be open to a cruise vacation that will let them see as many islands as possible with as little hassle as possible, at a very competitive price with a land-based vacation of the same length. In effect, there has been no advertising at all for NCLA except word of mouth and among those that go to cruise sites like this one. I have bought all kinds of magazines about Hawaii this last year and there are tons of advertisements for hotels and restaurants and activities, but I do not remember any for NCLA ships. Luring cruise lovers from other lines to the NCLA ships may have hurt NCL because, according to these boards, the NCLA experience is not satisfying for people have been on a lot or cruises and expect certain levels of service that they are not getting on NCLA. I am sorry the cruise choices in Hawaii are diminishing and I hope it is only temporary.

[PRNole47]

I don't think the American workers are lazy or whatever. I do think there is a lack of Americans who are interested in doing this type of work.

Well, high-end hotels in the US don't seem to have a problem hiring and retaining dedicated, polished staff that is willing to serve the customer. Why can't NCL attract similarly qualified American staff for their all-American crews?

[VegasGreen]

One of my thoughts is why not Pride of Aloha? I know it was re-themed after its time as Norwegian Sky, but being not "purpose-built" for HI and having a previous name/decor it could transition back to seems much less costly than stripping the South Pacific out of PoH and starting over....

 

or, is this a sign of "leave the lesser, older ships in Hawaii, it's a mess anyway" and putting a new Star-class in Europe?

[VegasGreen]

Well, high-end hotels in the US don't seem to have a problem hiring and retaining dedicated, polished staff that is willing to serve the customer. Why can't NCL attract similarly qualified American staff for their all-American crews?

 

Compare salaries of employees at high-end US hotels to NCLA crew members. There's your answer.

[Cuizer2]

What EXACTLY does it mean to be US flagged versus being US flagged IN the US?

 

Can a US flagged ship have a casino? Must a US flagged ship have American employees?

 

A ship can be US (United States) flagged if it meets certain conditions. Without going into a lot of technical details, it must be (mostly) build in the the US and most of the crew (I believe 85%) must be US citizens.

 

A US flagged ship can have a casino (example - the Mississippi River boats). The casino issue is a Hawaii state issue, not a US flag issue.

 

The only difference between being US flagged and US flagged in the US is where the ship is located. I have seen a US flagged ship in Cabo (I don't know why the US Coast Guard was in Cabo, but it was).

 

The advantage of being US flagged is the ship does not have to go to a foreign port during the cruise. In the Caribbean that is no problem (almost all the ports are foreign). In Alaska that is no problem, as Canada is foreign. The same for Europe.

 

The problem is that the closest foreign port to Hawaii is 1000 miles away. For a cruise ship that means two days in each direction. For cruises from the US mainland to Hawaii, you will see that the ships stop in Ensenada (so nice of Mexico to put a foreign port 75 miles south of the border). Sometimes the ships sail between Alaska and Hawaii (usually just before or just after the Alaska cruise season). Then the ships stop in Vancouver, Canada (not Vancouver, Washington).

 

So, if you want to cruise just around Hawaii, you either have to spend two days going south, plus two days coming back north, or be US flagged and not have a foreign port requirement.

 

The down side for a US flagged ship is the requirement to follow US laws, including the labor laws and tax codes. Why NCL thought there was enough of a demand for Hawaii to go from one ship (the Wind) to four ships (the Wind plus three Pride of xxx) is beyond me. So now NCL has made a decision to reallocate its resources (which I believe is the smart thing to do). The problem is, whenever a ship is pulled out of service, someone is going to be unhappy, while no one is going to be happy. So this is going to hurt NCL's image.

 

What would make sense is to waive the foreign port requirement for Hawaii only. The only potential competition is from foreign ships sailing between the US mainland and Hawaii. And really, how much do you think a stop in Ensenada (100 miles south of San Diego vs. 1000 miles to the nearest foreign port from Hawaii) is hurting the foreign flagged ships?

[honestguy]

Compare salaries of employees at high-end US hotels to NCLA crew members. There's your answer.

 

Vegas you hit the nail on the head. NCLA pay scale is a joke. one of the main reasons that can't find or retain great workers.

[smeyer418]

Very bad idea unless it gets a cut from the revenues. Gambling, like state lotteries, is a way for the government to tax people based on their inability to do probabilities and statistics.

I respectfully disagree, if the competion is from non-Us flagged vessels that can gamble outside US territorial waters, it makes no sense to require the US flagged carrier in Hawaii not to have gambling for the reasons you cite. Since the US flagged vessel pays us taxes already, you just allow the non-US flagged vessels to get the jpbs and the revenue with none of it going to the US. All gambling is the same as stats and probabilities go. someone should tell Nevada its wrong.

[shoreguy]

Compare salaries of employees at high-end US hotels to NCLA crew members. There's your answer.

 

and compare the cruise fare to the price of a high end Hawaiian resort with food and transportation to 4 islands and there is your answer. If and when NCLA can command market based pricing then and only then can they afford top end staff. As long as we demand pricing that looks like a international staffed ship it will never happen. Classic chicken or egg situation.

 

Current Specials 7 days - $699 - you could spend that on food alone

[ohioNCLcruiser]

Vegas you hit the nail on the head. NCLA pay scale is a joke. one of the main reasons that can't find or retain great workers.

yep thats true.

[Bennett'sCruise]

The problem is that the closest foreign port to Hawaii is 1000 miles away. For a cruise ship that means two days in each direction. For cruises from the US mainland to Hawaii, you will see that the ships stop in Ensenada (so nice of Mexico to put a foreign port 75 miles south of the border).

 

The stop in Ensenada can be as short as 1 hour. A lot of times this in the middle of the night and a lot of the pax don't even know they've been there! No one gets off the ship when it's a very short stop ... but you all have to go thru customs anyway back in Los Angeles or San Diego.:o

[dwrist]

Adding to the equation are the three new ships NCL announced earlier. What will be happening to them with adding POH to the fleet?

Any ideas?

[shoreguy]

Adding to the equation are the three new ships NCL announced earlier. What will be happening to them with adding POH to the fleet?

Any ideas?

 

From the same press release as the POHI move -

 

In addition, NCL plans to build up to three new third generation Freestyle Cruising ships for delivery between 2009 and 2011. NCL is on target to have the youngest fleet in the industry by the end of 2007, providing guests the opportunity to enjoy the flexibility of Freestyle Cruising on the newest, most contemporary ships at sea.

[daveco58]

Well, high-end hotels in the US don't seem to have a problem hiring and retaining dedicated, polished staff that is willing to serve the customer. Why can't NCL attract similarly qualified American staff for their all-American crews?

 

Because working in a hotel has almost nothing in common with working on a cruise ship, maybe?

[Cuizer2]

The stop in Ensenada can be as short as 1 hour. A lot of times this in the middle of the night and a lot of the pax don't even know they've been there! No one gets off the ship when it's a very short stop ... but you all have to go thru customs anyway back in Los Angeles or San Diego.:o

 

Like I said, do you really think this is causing much of a problem for the foreign flagged ships? If a waiver is limited to just Hawaii, I don't think the US shipping industry will go down the drain.

[songanddance]

I do like that name :-). What I would LOVE is if this ship would stay American crewed (I know im dreaming) but I would love to work on a ship in europe for a while and then back to hawaii.

 

The reason why they are doing this is to get rid of the American crew so they can get the level of service up beyond that of a Cracker Jack drive through.

 

Chalk up another job well done by American labor as they push yet another business off shore.

[dwrist]

From the same press release as the POHI move -

 

In addition, NCL plans to build up to three new third generation Freestyle Cruising ships for delivery between 2009 and 2011. NCL is on target to have the youngest fleet in the industry by the end of 2007, providing guests the opportunity to enjoy the flexibility of Freestyle Cruising on the newest, most contemporary ships at sea.

 

 

I think that phrase is part of NCL's signature on their press releases, maybe? ;)

[honestguy]

Because working in a hotel has almost nothing in common with working on a cruise ship, maybe?

 

 

Im there is more in common than you think, both are very simliar

[dwrist]

The reason why they are doing this is to get rid of the American crew so they can get the level of service up beyond that of a Cracker Jack drive through.

 

Chalk up another job well done by American labor as they push yet another business off shore.

 

 

My DH's job(he is a professional, IT) is headed off shore, not because of his work ethics, but because of higher costs of bennies, unemployment insurances, etc. Maybe abetter explanation is poor work ethics of 20-somethings.:mad:

[honestguy]

and compare the cruise fare to the price of a high end Hawaiian resort with food and transportation to 4 islands and there is your answer. If and when NCLA can command market based pricing then and only then can they afford top end staff. As long as we demand pricing that looks like a international staffed ship it will never happen. Classic chicken or egg situation.

 

Current Specials 7 days - $699 - you could spend that on food alone

 

 

shoreguy I know you have alot of insight on the matter. what do u think the chances would be of a high end ship working in hawaii. something like a crystal or regent. I think thats the route NCL might face with the America. get good people on board pay them a very good wage, and charge alot for the cruise. maybe refit the ship cut the number of cabins.

[daveco58]

Im there is more in common than you think, both are very simliar

 

Okay, but I am one of those dedicated servers in a high-end hotel ( I tend bar), and I have a cousin who worked on a cruise ship for many years. I would bet dollars to donuts you have not done either.

We have no more in common, work wise than I do with my sister who is a bookkeeper.

I dont work hard, I dont spend more than 30 hrs/wk at work. When I leave work, I leave work. I live in a house, with my very own bedroom, kitchen, bathroom, and yard. I can use the pool and jacuzzi here any time I want, because they are mine. I can take a week off and go anywhere I want. I can leave with two weeks notice, and no one is mad.

I keep all the tips I make - except what I choose to tip back. And in this whole hotel, I am one of about 12 people who is legally able to work in this country. How many of the Maids, Cooks, Gardeners, Bellhops and Maintenance people here do you think could go to work for NCLA? The problem of hiring Americans on a cruise ship is they are doing work Americans dont much do, in America. If these hotels had to hire only citizens or green card holders, the way NCLA does - they would be bleeding red ink too. And if NCLA could hire from the same pool as these high end hotels, they would be more profitable.

[mikedw]

Im there is more in common than you think, both are very simliar

 

The work itself might be similar, but when you work in a resort or hotel, you can go home at the end of the day. Working on a ship, you share a cabin with several other people and you work 7 days a weeks for several months. I served onboard a submarine in the US navy, not everyone can adjust to working on a ship.