17 People robbed on Conquest Jamaica excursion

[Hedocple]

Jamaica is not safe for American tourists. This is no Mexico City, hell this is not even Brooklyn, this is a rough place with rough people looking to profit off of tourists not from their wares or services but by crime.

 

Heck! Or even Houston for that matter which has crime rates more than double of New York and much higher than the national average.

 

http://houston.areaconnect.com/crime/compare.htm?c1=Houston&s1=TX&c2=new+york&s2=NY

 

http://www.khou.com/topstories/stories/khou061219_tnt_crimehouston.253df031.html

 

Glad you enjoyed the canopy tour.

[lornadoons]

Heck! Or even Houston for that matter which has crime rates more than double of New York and much higher than the national average.

 

http://houston.areaconnect.com/crime/compare.htm?c1=Houston&s1=TX&c2=new+york&s2=NY

 

http://www.khou.com/topstories/stories/khou061219_tnt_crimehouston.253df031.html

 

Glad you enjoyed the canopy tour.

 

oh NOOOOO... not Houston AGAIN! :eek: This thread is toooo much! Let the USA city crime stats start all over again... :eek:

[Hedocple]

oh NOOOOO... not Houston AGAIN! :eek: This thread is toooo much! Let the USA city crime stats start all over again... :eek:

 

Yeah...Couldn't resist. What's with these naive travel experts from Houston. Guess I've just seen and read too many high crime stories about Houston lately. If it were me I don't think I'd be talking smack about other cities/countries.

 

Heh! You guys still here?

[Aplmac]

oh, do tell aplmac... now you've piqued my curiosity about this... what is the theory???

Maybe that will explain why many of us had a problem

trying to "adjust" and understand/question the Jamaican people and their "friendliness"

- and others didn't.

I'm more than willing to share and divulge,

but my 'content' may not be considered suitable for this forum,

since matters re. slavery are unpleasant at best!

I'm sure you understand.

 

I have prepared a short description/explanation

of the basics of African slave-distribution/selection practices

in the British Colonial West Indies circa 200-300 years ago,

for enquiring minds who need to know.

 

Those serious about informing themselves further

may email me and we'll communicate further via that private method

 

Thank you for your interest - or not.

Either way is cool by me.

 

------------------------------------

E = pcdoctor@caribsurf.com

------------------------------------

[kwilliams6045]

Hedocple,

 

You are so right. Houston is worse. In 2005 Houston had 334 murders (9.1 per 100,000 inhabitants.) and Jamaica only had 1700 murders (currently 50 per 100,000 inhabitants). Yep...You nailed it. Houston is just as bad. I much rather go to Jamaica than Houston or any other US city. Jamiaca is safe and free of crime. The US is full of crime and you are much more likely to be victimized in the US. Even the small towns are extremely dangerous, but the small villages in Jamaica or extremely safe. The people in Jamaica are the most friendly people on this planet. The US people are the nasty, most non-educated, uncivilized people that have ever existed. I am thinking of moving to Jamaica, so my kids can get a great education and we can live in the most crime free, friendly country that there is here on Earth. I cannot wait. Then maby you can come and visit. We can go into the country and meet all the great people. Hopefully we will run into my old buddy and have a couple of drinks with him and his partner, oh wait..no his partner was shot down by the police.

 

Now ..I am on your side, you have changed my way of thinking and I now see how much better Jamaica is over the US. I am so scared about being here right now...I need the quickest way back to Jamaica so I will be safe.

 

Please, continue comparing the US to Jamaica so other people may see how screwed up it is over here and that we need to move to Jamaica.

[lornadoons]

Hedocple,

 

You are so right. Houston is worse. In 2005 Houston had 334 murders (9.1 per 100,000 inhabitants.) and Jamaica only had 1700 murders (currently 50 per 100,000 inhabitants). Yep...You nailed it. Houston is just as bad. I much rather go to Jamaica than Houston or any other US city. Jamiaca is safe and free of crime. The US is full of crime and you are much more likely to be victimized in the US. Even the small towns are extremely dangerous, but the small villages in Jamaica or extremely safe. The people in Jamaica are the most friendly people on this planet. The US people are the nasty, most non-educated, uncivilized people that have ever existed. I am thinking of moving to Jamaica, so my kids can get a great education and we can live in the most crime free, friendly country that there is here on Earth. I cannot wait. Then maby you can come and visit. We can go into the country and meet all the great people. Hopefully we will run into my old buddy and have a couple of drinks with him and his partner, oh wait..no his partner was shot down by the police.

 

Now ..I am on your side, you have changed my way of thinking and I now see how much better Jamaica is over the US. I am so scared about being here right now...I need the quickest way back to Jamaica so I will be safe.

 

Please, continue comparing the US to Jamaica so other people may see how screwed up it is over here and that we need to move to Jamaica.

 

Here's a stat for someone who majored in statistics on this thread... what are the stats for the number of Americans who MOVE to Jamaica and make it their permanent residence (not time share or investment in Sandals or some other inner sanctuary) compared to the amount of Jamiacans who make the USA their home?? I have met more Jamaican people lately who have moved here. Just in the last month, my husband and I drove down to Disney (we are in SC) and we met a bus driver who works for Disney, was Jamaican and moved here 10 years ago, with most of his family and friends. Told us the story that it was time to go. Yes he missed his native land, but said he has a "better way of life here". Then we were eating at a hotel resort restaurant close by on Hilton Head Island and there were many Jamaicans working the dining room. Our waiter was here on a Visa working for the summer months. Nicest guy ever, but it was his "opportunity" as he put it. These were not young teens looking for adventure. Some left children back home to work here. And he planned on working again here but has to return because of his Visa. I wonder how many Americans are over in Jamaica looking for "an opportunity" or seeking a "better way of life"??? AND leaving their family and friends to work and live in Jamaica?? hmm

 

I refer back to the honorable Tony Blair of the UK who said recently, "A simple way to take measure of a country is to look at... how many people want in... and how many want to get out."

And don't get me started about Houston again. My son lives there. :D And I'm only kidding about the stats... NO MORE STATS!

 

And is it HOT were you all are... it was 109 here yesterday! The windows are covered with moisture... I live in a Rain Forest!

[*Mach*]

Why would it surprise anyone that people want to move to the US, which has one of the highest standards of living in the world, from Jamaica which has one of the lower?

 

That's one of the biggest drivers in immigration no matter what country the immigrant is from, isn't it?

 

Regarding crime rates, the VAST majority of crime in Jamaica is Jamaican on Jamaican. The crimes against tourists are few, indeed. Why do you think this incident with the 17 Carnival tourists got so much play on these boards... BECAUSE IT'S NEWS! If it was a daily occurrence no one would pay attention to such a story.

 

Jamaica isn't alone in tourists being targeted. There's a piece on John Heald's wonderful blog about at passenger who has his wallet lifted in Naples. Stuff happens, be it here at home or abroad.

 

If you're worried about someone snatching your stuff stay on board.

[Sargent_Schultz]

So would we consider then that the cruise line is the agent or representative of the tour operator? since they (cruise lines) advertise and receive payments for publishing the excursions on the internet and onboard?

 

 

I'm getting a NO on that. CC carries ads for tour operators and they certainly don't do it for free. There are even links to purchase. Does that mean CC is the agent or representative of the tour operator?

[nimbex1970]

I think the convoluted point in this thread is not a comparison about US standards to Jamaica.... but about the comparison of safety of Jamaica to other caribbean islands. This point has not been addressed. I know the crime stats of where I am....

 

If I choose to travel to a foreign port, I want to have an open discussion when I research it for pick pockets, crimes against tourists and everyday aggression vrs. sales. For people to take this off topic only defeats the purpose of using this site to gain usefull info as to safety and what to be prepared for upon debarkation from the ship.

 

Hiding and sqewing information about jamaica, no matter how we love this port, serves NO ONE. Telling those with worries to stay on ship serve no one. Having done a personal walk through, where people don't go as well as the tourist trap, has this port ranked most highest of dangerous on my list.

 

Will I go again? Yep, September baby, will I try to be well informed to ensure my safety yes. I hate and love Jamaica...

 

Covering up it's flaws, adding crap statistics of US serve no purpose.... how about we discuss the safety concerns of Jamica and keep it on tract so future tourists can be as safe as possible and enjoy this beautiful country???:rolleyes:

Might be time for a new thread... how to vacation in Jamaica, see the sites and be safe?? Rather than the useless banter that has been going on..... anyone game?

[Sargent_Schultz]

And to those who mock these people, go there, and not just to Margaritaville or Sandals.....what is outside those doors you do not want.

 

I have been to Jamaica many times and have yet to set foot in either of those.

[kwilliams6045]

Machman,

 

Welcome to the thread. There are many that feel like you.

 

I for one, would stay on board, but the Jamaican lovers need to go into port. If not, the criminals would be out of business. (Just a joke)

 

If you look up tourist crime in Jamaica, you will find that this is not the only incident, nor is there only a few. There are others that involved a GROUP of tourist.

 

The aggresive pushing of narcotics, threatfull tactics in sales, lack of security, and over all atmosphere of Jamaica, makes it a concern for tourist safety.

 

We have covered the "crime happens everywhere" and I still say that you are more likely to be a victim of crime in a high crime area. The entire country of Jamaica is a high crime area, even when you are locked down in the resorts. There are incidents were people have been robbed on the resort's golf courses. They have been robbed in their rooms at night (by gunmen) and even killed.

 

Sure crime can happen anywhere. You can be shot anywhere, but where would it be more likely, Hometown, USA or Baghdad, Iraq. That is my point. The potential for crime to occur is greater in some places rather than others. Why put people in a place that has the greater potential.

 

Again, if you are an adult, and can make an informed decision, then great. The plan here is to provide the information needed in order to make that decision. I feel that the travel industry has a duty to give the information in regards to the criminal threat of an area. They know it and they should pass it along.

 

Thanks and again, welcome to the thread.

[Luanne21]

I can't believe this thread is still going on. I was also on that cruise, and my question to all of you who were effected, "How are the children doing now?" Are they in therapy? Do they talk about the robbery? Have you heard anything from Jamaica, or Carnival?

 

My thoughts and prayers are for all the families, but especially for the children.

 

Luanne

[kwilliams6045]

Luanne,

 

Carnival has stopped counseling for my family. They authorized 6 sessions for my children and 5 sessions for my wife and I. However, we are continuing counseling and paying for it ourselves. The counselors say that it can take up to a year to work through the trauma.

We have gone to the mall, shopping, and when the kids see someone, who may remind them of the robbers they begin to shake. It was so bad that we would have to leave and go back home. Even now, they still get nervous, but we continue through the mall and assure them they are safe (Even though, I feel like they do not believe me when I say that).

We have a jeep that we take on rides to relax. We have done this for several years. The kids have always enjoyed this, but now when we go through an area that has several trees or a lot of vegetation, they become scared. It is not the same anymore.

We cannot go to the supermarket at night time, because they are afraid that we will be robbed in the parking lot.

My kids know that I carry a pistol every where we go, and still they do not feel safe. This tears me up inside and this has been the worse issued that I have had to face. Knowing that I cannot provide security for my children, feels like being stabbed in the heart. I have provided security for my family forever and now, it is not there.

We live in a very safe area, where everyone has one or two acres. Our street is on a dead end, and I have always felt safe there. I was walking our dog the other morning around 5:30AM. The sun was not up and it was still dark. I did not have my gun with me and out of the blue I felt extremely vulnerable. I began imaging someone coming from the woods and holding me up. This has never been me, but I have to realize that this is me now.

The counselors say that this will ease up over time, but they also know it will never go away. The day we were robbed, was the day our lives changed forever.

Thanks for your concern and God Bless.

[Luanne21]

Mr. Williams,

 

Thank you for your quick reply. My heart breaks over what has happened to your babies. I will continue to pray for them, as well as your wife and yourself.

 

Try checking on a support group in your area for violent crime victims. That might help them, knowing they are not alone.

 

You and I actually spoke on the day all this happened, but I don't expect you to remember. (My family was almost killed on the White water rafting tour)

 

May your kids fine more happiness in their lives, than pain.:)

 

Luanne

[bunting]

I think the convoluted point in this thread is not a comparison about US standards to Jamaica.... but about the comparison of safety of Jamaica to other caribbean islands. This point has not been addressed. I know the crime stats of where I am....

 

If I choose to travel to a foreign port, I want to have an open discussion when I research it for pick pockets, crimes against tourists and everyday aggression vrs. sales. For people to take this off topic only defeats the purpose of using this site to gain usefull info as to safety and what to be prepared for upon debarkation from the ship.

 

Hiding and sqewing information about jamaica, no matter how we love this port, serves NO ONE. Telling those with worries to stay on ship serve no one. Having done a personal walk through, where people don't go as well as the tourist trap, has this port ranked most highest of dangerous on my list.

 

Will I go again? Yep, September baby, will I try to be well informed to ensure my safety yes. I hate and love Jamaica...

 

Covering up it's flaws, adding crap statistics of US serve no purpose.... how about we discuss the safety concerns of Jamica and keep it on tract so future tourists can be as safe as possible and enjoy this beautiful country???:rolleyes:

 

Might be time for a new thread... how to vacation in Jamaica, see the sites and be safe?? Rather than the useless banter that has been going on..... anyone game?

 

Well said

[standby 06.30]

I'm getting a NO on that. CC carries ads for tour operators and they certainly don't do it for free. There are even links to purchase. Does that mean CC is the agent or representative of the tour operator?

CC is owned by expedia, do you have shares in carnival for the third time of asking?

[Hedocple]

All right gang... It’s been fun but I have some more traveling to do.

kwilliams good luck in getting what you’re seeking. Whether it’s compensation from Carnival or the satisfaction of scaring away visitors to Jamaica or other developing nations. It’s your mission and I hope it makes you feel better.

Most of all I hope all involved recover from the incident.

I for one will continue to explore and visit other countries with the thought deep down in my head that I am vulnerable. I’m well aware that no one or place can guarantee my safety. Even at home in the states. But I love to travel so what am I to do?

I’ve defending JA based on my own experiences. And not limited to 8 hour cruise stops. I know not everyone will agree. I’d be the first to say it’s not for everyone. I certainly wouldn’t recommend it as a first time destination to the older crowd. You really need to have an open mind. But in my opinion it is one of the most beautiful islands in the Caribbean. And as long as I continue to feel safe as a visitor there I’ll be back.

See ya and safe travels!

[lornadoons]

Might be time for a new thread... how to vacation in Jamaica, see the sites and be safe?? Rather than the useless banter that has been going on..... anyone game?

 

YES!!!!! :D This should have been done around 600 posts ago! SAFETY and WARNINGS were the original intentions from the beginning. NOT to cut down those who posted about how they were treated or victimized. I loved your quote about you loving and hating Jamaica. That's how a lot of us feel I'm sure. Jamaica's beauty is just that. The water, beaches... Dunn's River Falls was gorgeous... and FUN! It's unfortunate that there is the crime element to take away what we see and wish we could enjoy a little more... not far from these beautiful places.

[nrdsb4]

Luanne,

 

Carnival has stopped counseling for my family. They authorized 6 sessions for my children and 5 sessions for my wife and I. However, we are continuing counseling and paying for it ourselves. The counselors say that it can take up to a year to work through the trauma.

We have gone to the mall, shopping, and when the kids see someone, who may remind them of the robbers they begin to shake. It was so bad that we would have to leave and go back home. Even now, they still get nervous, but we continue through the mall and assure them they are safe (Even though, I feel like they do not believe me when I say that).

We have a jeep that we take on rides to relax. We have done this for several years. The kids have always enjoyed this, but now when we go through an area that has several trees or a lot of vegetation, they become scared. It is not the same anymore.

We cannot go to the supermarket at night time, because they are afraid that we will be robbed in the parking lot.

My kids know that I carry a pistol every where we go, and still they do not feel safe. This tears me up inside and this has been the worse issued that I have had to face. Knowing that I cannot provide security for my children, feels like being stabbed in the heart. I have provided security for my family forever and now, it is not there.

We live in a very safe area, where everyone has one or two acres. Our street is on a dead end, and I have always felt safe there. I was walking our dog the other morning around 5:30AM. The sun was not up and it was still dark. I did not have my gun with me and out of the blue I felt extremely vulnerable. I began imaging someone coming from the woods and holding me up. This has never been me, but I have to realize that this is me now.

The counselors say that this will ease up over time, but they also know it will never go away. The day we were robbed, was the day our lives changed forever.

 

 

Thanks for your concern and God Bless.

 

That may be, but you never know. With the right kind of treatment and discourse, they may indeed get over it. Kids are very resilient. I was robbed at gunpoint in my youth (not as young as your kids), and for many years I would jump out of my skin if I ever heard anyone running up from behind me. Eventually, I did get over it. It rarely ever even enters my mind, and while I do try to remain aware of my surroundings wherever I am, I am not consumed with thoughts that I am not safe anywhere. I think the key is to do what you can to make their environment secure (but let's face it, even if you feel "safe" in your own neighborhood, that's not necessarily true categorically), but be careful to not feed their fears. Over time, your kids may surprise you and find balance again. Of course they will never forget the event, but I can say from experience that it is truly possible to put it behind you forever. Good luck.

[tech]

"kwilliams good luck in getting what you’re seeking. Whether it’s compensation from Carnival or the satisfaction of scaring away visitors to Jamaica or other developing nations. It’s your mission and I hope it makes you feel better. "

 

On this one comment alone, I would suggest they lock the thread.

 

If people truly believe that this is the original reason for this thread, then it should be abandoned.

 

The message has gotten over to those that will listen and to the others it will never resonate.

 

But how many times do you suppose a law enforcement officer hears " If only they had told me it was dangerous " ?

 

Well, this law enforcement officer has done his best to tell you and also to express the feelings of crime victims.

 

Each one heals in their own way but part of the healing is discussing it.

 

Sometimes your ox has to be gored for you to have compassion and understanding of those around you.

 

I say "Bookem Danno " Lock it down.

[kwilliams6045]

This thread has died down in the past. It may do it again and I am sure it will go away. I check it on a daily bases as you can tell, but rarely on the weekend.

 

I hope many others see it, and it makes them think about any further trips. Whether they go or not, it's not my business. I have done what I feel is my part as a "good person". I have explained my situaution in a way, that I hope people can understand. I wanted them to see what it was like in my familie's shoes that day, without having to walk in them.

 

Hedocple,

 

You and others have mentioned compenstaion. If I was worried about compensation, do you really think that I would get on all these public forums and discuss everything about this situation? Give all my cards?

 

If you know anything about the court systems, you would understand that if compenstaion was the motive, I would sit back, be quiet and wait on a settlement.

 

Just for laughs, I don't know if you have any kids or anyone that you love more than life itself and would do anything in the world for that person, but if you do, what compensation would be sufficient if it was found that a company was negligence and caused that love one to have a gun shoved in their faces and see their young life pass before them? For that love one to think that THEN AND THERE, they were about to take a BULLET IN THE FACE?

 

This may sound harsh, but these are the facts. My 10 year old daughter had an 8" .44 caliber pistol within 6 inches of her face. She SCREAMED for her life like no other person I have ever heard. She pleaded not only for her safety, but the other tourist. Yes, in that frightening time, my beautiful, loving daughter thought about the others on that tour.

 

NOW DON'T HIDE.....YOU TELL ME. IF CARNIVAL WAS FOUND TO BE LIABLE....WHAT SHOULD THE COMPENSATION BE THAT WOULD BE WORTH GOING THROUGH THAT?

 

To me Carnival Cruise Lines could never compensate us for what we went through. We were there because THEY did not give us important information about that island, that I know they had. They should have given it and I don't care what anyone else thinks. I for one do what I think is right and that is how I expect my family to be treated. The right thing is for all travel agents to tell their clients the possible dangers of a country and the criminal history.

 

They can close this thread if they want. I just want the answer to the above question from the man that has a question on my motive.

[bunting]

Whether they go or not, it's not my business. I have done what I feel is my part as a "good person". I have explained my situaution in a way, that I hope people can understand. I wanted them to see what it was like in my familie's shoes that day, without having to walk in them.

 

Yes you have. Good luck and best wishes to your family and you