17 People robbed on Conquest Jamaica excursion

[98Charlie]

Don't think the cruiselines will not pull out of Jamaica. They have discontinued stopping in St. Croix, Port Au Prince and Caracas due to problems with crime. It can happen.

 

KWilliams, I am truly sorry your family had to go through this ... it is obvious that you feel you MUST do something. In my opinion, though, I have a difficult time giving all the blame to Carnival ... I believe this incident was beyond their or the tour company's control ... unfortunately.

 

My thoughts too. And St. Croix is in US controlled Virgin Islands.

 

Dianne

[Aplmac]

You don't, for a minute, think that the people of these islands built these expensive piers, do you?

 

Once that pier is built the cruise lines want their money back.

I need to assure you that local island governments ARE the ones

that finance and build those piers and deep water harbours,

with the long term view of attracting cruise ship traffic and U.S.Dollars!

I have personally been involved in the construction of such facilities,

and they are financed by governments who contract us builder-guys to make them.

 

Once the pier is built, the island GOVERNMENTS want their money back.

 

Cruise lines need to withold their customers from Jamaica for a spell

and let those government-run piers stand idle for a time,

while the Jamaicans 'consider their behavioural options'

towards those from the civilized world!

 

( I live in these islands! - I'm not as tourist)

[bunting]

I need to assure you that local island governments ARE the ones that finance and build those piers and deep water harbours, with the long term view of attracting cruise ship traffic and U.S.Dollars! I have personally been involved in the construction of such facilities, and they are financed by governments who contract us builder-guys to make them.

 

Once the pier is built, the island GOVERNMENTS want their money back.

 

Cruise lines need to withold their customers from Jamaica for a spell

and let those government-run piers stand idle for a time, while the Jamaicans 'consider their behavioural options' towards those from the civilized world!

 

( I live in these islands! - I'm not as tourist)

 

Quite right I found this one from 2003

 

http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20030704/business/business3.html

 

Here´s an extract

 

 

In 2003, Jamaica, along with the Bahamas, posted the highest head tax rate of $15/passenger followed by Puerto Rico with $10.30/passenger. Dominican Republic posted a rate of US$1 while the Cayman Island US$2 per head. Trinidad & Tobago posted US$5 per head, Key West, Florida posted US$8 while St. Croix, St. Martin and Martinique posted zero dollars. Jamaica's average total costs per call to cruise lines amounts to US$34,309, Freeport US$34,655, making them the two most expensive Caribbean ports, while Puerto Rico US$27,836, Trinidad & Tobago US$14,022 per call, and the least expensive, Dominican Republic US$1,950. This clearly puts Dominican Republic in a more favourable position than Jamaica to be chosen as a home port destination.

 

The question is: "What can Jamaica do to increase its market share?"

Number one on the list is the continuous improvement in security as the perceived threat of terrorism and drug smuggling continues to haunt us and threatens the viability of our industry.

 

Unquote

[98Charlie]

I need to assure you that local island governments ARE the ones

that finance and build those piers and deep water harbours,

with the long term view of attracting cruise ship traffic and U.S.Dollars!

I have personally been involved in the construction of such facilities,

and they are financed by governments who contract us builder-guys to make them.

 

Once the pier is built, the island GOVERNMENTS want their money back.

 

Cruise lines need to withold their customers from Jamaica for a spell

and let those government-run piers stand idle for a time,

while the Jamaicans 'consider their behavioural options'

towards those from the civilized world!

 

Thanks for your input. Barbados is among our favorite ports.

 

Barbados is nowhere near Jamaica when it comes to welcoming tourists or being a safe port. Happy to hear you have a part in that safe cruise port.

 

I know the new port and pier area being built in Roatan is being built through dollars from Royal Caribbean. Have seen the architectural plan a few months ago and know that Roatan will never be the same as some of us remember it once RCI gets done with their work. Sad thing is, it's the local people selli8g their crafts who will be hurt by that new pier area.

 

Agree that that the government run piers in Jamaica should stand idle for a few years until the government and the residnes understand that tourists don't want to visit the island untile things change.

 

Dianne

[jcanino]

Carnival knows by now that Jamaica is dangerous. Even Hertz and Avis will not cars there because of the crime rate. We went there two years ago and there is a hostility and dislike for tourists that one feels no where else.

 

Hertz does rent cars from Montego Bay's Sangster Airport as does Avis. go to wither of their web sites and you can price and reserve cars.

 

I was in Montego Bay last week at an all inclusive resort. I took the time to go beyond the front gate onto the public street and had some nice conversations with local workers as well as three members of the Jamaican Defense Force who were going to the resort to get ice. If we are all guessing at numbers, I would guess that 90% of all Jamaicans are down to Earth friendly hard working people just like you all have in your own communities. All they look for is respect; the same respect that you give to your neighbors.

 

BTW, in four days in Montego Bay I was never offered any type of illicit drugs from anyone in any location.

[jcanino]

I did some research while I was there and saw the law enforcement looking the other way while this was happening. Law enforcement is part of government. Corrupt government breeds corruption. I stand by what I said.

 

Dianne, are you trying to say that law enforcement in the US is NOT part of government? I guess that all those "town" cops and "county" sheriffs and "state" troopers and the "Federal" Bureau of Investigations were figment of my imagination. There are corrupt law enforcement officers everywhere even in your own backyard.

[98Charlie]

Dianne, are you trying to say that law enforcement in the US is NOT part of government? I guess that all those "town" cops and "county" sheriffs and "state" troopers and the "Federal" Bureau of Investigations were figment of my imagination. There are corrupt law enforcement officers everywhere even in your own backyard.

 

No, i'm not saying that the US is exempt from corruption. What I am saying is most American's don't understant the corruption that can happen in other countries and beleive since they re americfans they are exempt from any difficulties they experience in those countries. Thus, the cfruise line should be responsible for what happened to pax, even though the exfcursion was booked through a separate cruise excursion company.

 

Won't ever say I will never get off the ship again in Jamaica. Will say when I get off the ship it will be after I've done some extensive research.

 

Do the same for other islands we visit. Just know from past visits to Jamaica that it's one island I will research the most.

 

 

Sorry if that doesn't sit well with some of you.

 

Dianne

[2112]

Don't think the cruiselines will not pull out of Jamaica. They have discontinued stopping in St. Croix, Port Au Prince and Caracas due to problems with crime. It can happen.

 

One MAJOR difference here. Look at a map! Where is a cruise line on a western itinerary going to substitute? Until they are allowed to go into Cuba, there is no where else to add. You might say they could go to other Central American ports, but most of those can't handle more ships than already visit - and you read about people saying they feel unsafe in Belize and Roatan. Face it, because of geography, and because a lot of passangers want to go there, Jamaca is here to stay (at least until Cuba visits are allowed). With eastern and southern routes, it is easy to substitute - but not so on the western routes.

[Aplmac]

So where do we draw the line?

Do we boycott all Caribbean Islands, Mexico, South & Central America, ?

 

Rio:

“33 British tourists were robbed at gunpoint ....”

St. Lucia:

“.. including the killing of a British woman.”

 

Mexico:

“Recently two Canadians were found murdered in their hotel room in a Mexican resort in Cancun. There has been an upward spike of Canadian tourists who have been killed in Mexico”

Sounds like you've already shown where to draw the line!

Certainly not at all Caribbean destinations,

but surely Jamaica and Rio would be great starters for a boycott,

until they learn to be more civil.

 

St.Lucia? Maybe not: that case sounds a sporadic thing,for now

-but if any more incidents happen....

 

But when hostility to cruise-passengers becomes reasonably frequent,

then action needs to be taken

on a case-by-case, island-by-island basis.

 

Mexico: your tourists murdered there were not day tripper cruise passengers,

they were long stay.(yes, there's a difference - I consider day-trippers ashore for a few hrs. to be more vulnerable,somehow)

 

More than let's say three nasty attacks per year, on cruisers

and red flags start to fly.

No blanket policies.

No all-or-none (Geo.Bush? You're either for us...or against us... dumb!)

no...none of that.

 

No (un-attainable)Absolute Perfection rubbish,

just level-headed sorting out the good stops

from the obviously-unfriendly ones!

Is that too difficult to do?

[Aplmac]

Rather than cease stopping there,(Jamaica,Rio, etc.)

the cruise lines could cease to offer their sponsored/approved day-tours thing,

and (further) issue warnings that you are entirely at your own risk,

when you go ashore and choose to leave the Cruise Terminal/Duty Free area!

 

Additionally, you must sign a waiver form at the end of the gangplank,

absolving said cruise line from any and all problems/injuries/deaths

that may occur, while you are ashore

against the best advice of your cruise line

who recommends you enjoy beautiful Jamaica/Rio/Wherever

from the safety of your balcony!

 

Sound extreme?

Sure it is! and it may yet come to that!

- ORrrr - stop going there altogether, and stick with civil places

like Barbados and Sint Maarten, where no or few problems occur!

[2112]

Rather than cease stopping there,(Jamaica,Rio, etc.)

the cruise lines could cease to offer their sponsored/approved day-tours thing,

and (further) issue warnings that you are entirely at your own risk,

when you go ashore and choose to leave the Cruise Terminal/Duty Free area!

 

Additionally, you must sign a waiver form at the end of the gangplank,

absolving said cruise line from any and all problems/injuries/deaths

that may occur, while you are ashore

against the best advice of your cruise line

who recommends you enjoy beautiful Jamaica/Rio/Wherever

from the safety of your balcony!

 

Sound extreme?

Sure it is! and it may yet come to that!

- ORrrr - stop going there altogether, and stick with civil places

like Barbados and Sint Maarten, where no or few problems occur!

 

Again, this will never happen because the cruise lines make too much money on excursions. They also wouldn't want to highlight dangers at any particular port because it might imply that they are responsible for your safety at another port - and no port is 100% safe. However, IF they were sued by a few passangers, I wouldn't be surprised if during check in for the cruise they made you sign a document saying that they are not responsible for you safety at ANY port of call.

[standby 06.30]

I would hope your right about that, but there just seems to be way too much "cooperation" between dealers and security in some areas.

 

You happen to know if there is still a pub in London (can't remember the name) where all the Constables go? My New Scotland Yard Interpol contact took me there once some years ago:D

There have allways been pubs that cops go to to meet, this came under scrutiny, because of corruption some years ago, which included, masonic meeting places, the "met" police in london were in the spotlight over various periods, for a great deal of corruption in the past, rather like the Serpico stories in your country, also I forgot to add, that another inference about the searching of returning passengers is to stop "ganja" being brought onto the ship and sold on the ship, regards

[standby 06.30]

My wife and I would have some respect for the Ban brigade, if they had included, in there reason, the tragic abuse of Jamaican Gays,promoted by the church, , also one post was about the way the church abuses children with beating, another post described,the violence in that country and stated that, the population were good god loving people, 3 reasons to contemplate a ban, one cause, but as usual, it turns into a nasty selfish diatribe, "I want" and if anyone does not agree the flame thrower comes out, I love it, it shows people in a true light, I want to change my title to the Anarchist, regards

[kwilliams6045]

Jcanino,

 

I think your guess of 90% are hard working people, does not match up to the unemployment rate. 76% of the males are unemployed. I feel that is the reason so many go into the crime business.

 

Again, I do not want the cruise ships to stop going to JA. Any of you, who love JA and have had all of the wonderful experiences, keep going. You are adults and you can make your own decisions. Besides, you need to be their to keep the robbers in business.

 

Also Jcanino,

 

Do you feel as though the US has a higher percentage of corrupt cops than JA? Just wondering.

 

Dianne,

 

I'm not sure if I follow you. On one response, you stated that Carnival should not be held responsible and on another you said they should. Is it a typo?

 

Please look at my post on page 34 and see how I feel about Carnival's responsibility.

 

 

Any company that claims one thing and does another that places a person in harms way is responsible. If you were staying at a Holiday Inn that stated you were safe, knew you were in a high crime area, but failed to provide the needed security, and made claims that were not true. I promise you if you were that person robbed at the Holiday Inn, you would be the first to claim that they should be held liable.

 

Thanks

[standby 06.30]

I need to assure you that local island governments ARE the ones

that finance and build those piers and deep water harbours,

with the long term view of attracting cruise ship traffic and U.S.Dollars!

I have personally been involved in the construction of such facilities,

and they are financed by governments who contract us builder-guys to make them.

 

Once the pier is built, the island GOVERNMENTS want their money back.

 

Cruise lines need to withold their customers from Jamaica for a spell

and let those government-run piers stand idle for a time,

while the Jamaicans 'consider their behavioural options'

towards those from the civilized world!

 

Thanks for your input. Barbados is among our favorite ports.

 

Barbados is nowhere near Jamaica when it comes to welcoming tourists or being a safe port. Happy to hear you have a part in that safe cruise port.

 

I know the new port and pier area being built in Roatan is being built through dollars from Royal Caribbean. Have seen the architectural plan a few months ago and know that Roatan will never be the same as some of us remember it once RCI gets done with their work. Sad thing is, it's the local people selli8g their crafts who will be hurt by that new pier area.

 

Agree that that the government run piers in Jamaica should stand idle for a few years until the government and the residnes understand that tourists don't want to visit the island untile things change.

 

Dianne

I think there is, what you term a "Flip flop" in the above, to confirm that, do you still believe that cruise lines build piers? I would also say that, any holiday company has a duty to produce the holiday that they advertise, with certain aceptable force majeure clauses, then I would argue have a duty of care, if they sold this trip knowing that there was a potential for problems, and they did not inform there clients at the time, and in this case it seem an officer of the company who was selling the trip assured them they would be safe, I would I can assure you in an English court, win, regards

[jcanino]

I think your guess of 90% are hard working people, does not match up to the unemployment rate. 76% of the males are unemployed. I feel that is the reason so many go into the crime business.

 

I figured that if you could make wild guesses then I could make a guess based upon the people that I have met and gotten to know during my many trips to the island. At least my guess had my experience during all my trips to back it up. Again, I really feel for you and your family, but until it happened to you had you heard about anything similar happening on a regular basis? Since it happened to you, have you heard of it happening again?

 

Also Jcanino,

 

Do you feel as though the US has a higher percentage of corrupt cops than JA? Just wondering.

 

Honestly, I don't know if the US has a higher percentage of corrupt cops than Jamaica. I do know that there are more than most people think. It happens in big cities and it happens in rural America. BTW, my college degree is in Criminal Justice

 

 

Any company that claims one thing and does another that places a person in harms way is responsible. If you were staying at a Holiday Inn that stated you were safe, knew you were in a high crime area, but failed to provide the needed security, and made claims that were not true. I promise you if you were that person robbed at the Holiday Inn, you would be the first to claim that they should be held liable.

 

I will step in here and say that you are right. But on the other hand, if Holiday Inn told me that I was safe and I left the hotel to another part of town and got robbed, how could I claim that Holiday Inn was responsible. Same goes for any cruise line. Their responsibility lies with you on the ship. Once you leave that ship, just like leaving a hotel, they cannot be expected to protect you or be responsible for anything that goes wrong. You are no in control of the tour operator. Sure, you can claim deep pockets and sue the tour guide, his company, the cruise line, the tour director, the travel agent and so on and so forth, but how many of them had the direct responsibility for you?

[bunting]

 

I will step in here and say that you are right. But on the other hand, if Holiday Inn told me that I was safe and I left the hotel to another part of town and got robbed, how could I claim that Holiday Inn was responsible. Same goes for any cruise line. Their responsibility lies with you on the ship. Once you leave that ship, just like leaving a hotel, they cannot be expected to protect you or be responsible for anything that goes wrong. You are no in control of the tour operator. Sure, you can claim deep pockets and sue the tour guide, his company, the cruise line, the tour director, the travel agent and so on and so forth, but how many of them had the direct responsibility for you?

 

But then why should the ICCL (cruise line industry lobbyist) post as follows

 

http://************************/news/newsdetail.asp?FNewsID=739

 

quote

 

SHORE EXCURSIONS

 

Approximately 98 percent of cruise passengers disembark a cruise ship to visit a port-of-call. Of those that leave the ship, 45-50 percent participates in organized shore excursions offered by the cruise line in conjunction with local operators. Cruising is one of the safest vacation options available with an excellent safety and security record and international oversight by regulatory agencies. When traveling, passengers must remember that they are on an international voyage and are visiting foreign ports-of-call.

 

Cruise lines rigorously evaluate local shore excursion operators and look at factors such as licensing, proper equipment, insurance and safety records. Cruise lines encourage their passengers to use their shore excursion providers, but cannot prevent them from booking with independent tour operators. Cruise lines do alert their guests on the risks of using companies that have not been vetted by the cruise line or are not properly licensed and insured.

 

Tragedies on shore excursions are rare. When incidents happen, the cruise line fully cooperates with local officials in their investigation and assists those affected and their families.

 

Adventure is part of travel and no matter the method of transportation, passengers should be aware of the risks while still enjoying activities in foreign countries. When choosing a cruise, passengers are encouraged to:

 

• Buy travel insurance

 

• Choose shore excursions recommended by the cruise line from reputable and established operators that have undergone a stringent evaluation

 

• Ensure any independent shore excursion providers they choose are properly licensed and insured

 

So maybe kwilliams needs to ask how did the line quote rigorously evaluate unquote his tour (and maybe we should also be interested in the answer............)

[Sargent_Schultz]

In addition to researching all ports (not just Jamaica), I suggest you read the contract which you agreed to. Carnival is NOT liable.

 

10. INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS, SHORE EXCURSIONS AND OTHER SERVICES

(a) Guest acknowledges that all Shore excursions/tours (whether conducted in the water, on land or by air), airline flights and ground transportation, as well as the ship’s physician, nurse and on board concessions (including but not limited to, the gift shops, spa, beauty salon, fitness center, golf and art programs, video/snorkel concession) are either operated by or are independent contractors. Even though Carnival shall be entitled to collect a fee and earn a profit from the ticketing or sale of such services by such persons or entities, Carnival neither supervises nor controls their actions, nor makes any representation either express or implied as to their suitability. Carnival, in arranging for the services called for by the physician or nurse, all on board concessions, all shore excursion/tour tickets, all pre and post cruise airline flights or other transportation off of the ship and its tenders, does so only as a convenience for the Guest and Guests are free to use or not use these services. Guest agrees that Carnival assumes no responsibility, does not guarantee performance and in no event shall be liable for any negligent or intentional acts or omissions, loss, damage, injury or delay to Guest and/or Guest’s baggage, property or effects in connection with said services. Guests use the services of all independent contractors at the Guest’s sole risk. Independent contractors are entitled to make a proper charge for any service performed with respect to a Guest.

(b) Guest acknowledges that the ship’s masseuse, barber, hair dresser, manicurist, fitness or golf instructor, videographer, art auctioneer, gift shop personnel, wedding planners or other providers of personal services are employees of independent contractors and Carnival is not responsible for their actions. Guest further acknowledges that although independent contractors or their employees may use signage or clothing which contains the name “Carnival” or other related trade names or logos, the independent contractor status remains unchanged. Independent contractors, their employees and assistants are not agents, servants or employees of Carnival and have no authority to act on behalf of Carnival.

[Sargent_Schultz]

I would have thought someone would have learned not to abuse statistics by now.

 

According to the CIA factbook, unemployment in Jamaica was 11.3% (est) in 2006.

 

From the same source, population below the poverty line in Jamaica is 14.8% (2003 est) compared to 12% in the USA (2004 est).

[bunting]

I forgot to add, that another inference about the searching of returning passengers is to stop "ganja" being brought onto the ship and sold on the ship, regards

 

Hi Standby 06.30, please dont change your name....when I first read yours it brought back many good memories....anyhow I think (and also check with your mate in Ochi) that we´ll find that the reality of passenger searching is aimed at the detection of smugglers (and not users) but rather than search ony one person or a group of persons (e.g. the random search) the police decided to search everyone including crew (although most ships then rechecked the crew at the gangways)...this tactic closed down claims of victimisation etc the fact that they are physically checking people then has the knock on affect of detecting the user level puffer stuff..........so the original intention was not the puffers but the movers...... (Of course only speaking for Ocho but likely the searching process then moved to Montego Bay when it began a more popular port of call)

[Hedocple]

 

Mexico: your tourists murdered there were not day tripper cruise passengers,

they were long stay.(yes, there's a difference - I consider day-trippers ashore for a few hrs. to be more vulnerable,somehow)

 

I'm not understanding your reasoning? You consider "day trippers" more vulnerable than long stay yet the incidents you quote were "long stay"? I would guess that overnight tourists would be more vulnerable since they usually travel on thier own and during longer periods of the day? Day trippers (cruisers) typically travel in groups between 9:00-3:00 pm.

 

That's what made this robbery incident so unusual and I believe an isolated incident. I can understand why those envolved feel so strongly negative about JA. That was their only experience and it was terrible.

 

Carnival alone sends 500,000 passengers a year to JA. 10 major cruise ships per week for a total of 1.1 MILLION visitors every year. On top of that another million land visitors. I'm sure Carnival and the other cruise lines see this incident as a rare or isolated event. And based on the numbers I'm sure it is. I've searched and could not find any similar incidents before or since the attack. Not even minor incidents. And based on the JA response (killing the perps) seems to me that they are serious in making sure this type of thing does not happen again.

 

FYI...We did a cruise stop to Barbados in 2006. Loved it and yes felt totally safe. We will probably come back and spend a week. Just like we did when we visited St. Kitts.

 

We've also done 9 weeklong land vacations to JA and have had wonderful experience every time. Would we go to Kingston? Probably not. Walk MoBay late night? No.

Everyone's thoughts about JA will be based on their own experiences.

[standby 06.30]

In addition to researching all ports (not just Jamaica), I suggest you read the contract which you agreed to. Carnival is NOT liable.

 

10. INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS, SHORE EXCURSIONS AND OTHER SERVICES

(a) Guest acknowledges that all Shore excursions/tours (whether conducted in the water, on land or by air), airline flights and ground transportation, as well as the ship’s physician, nurse and on board concessions (including but not limited to, the gift shops, spa, beauty salon, fitness center, golf and art programs, video/snorkel concession) are either operated by or are independent contractors. Even though Carnival shall be entitled to collect a fee and earn a profit from the ticketing or sale of such services by such persons or entities, Carnival neither supervises nor controls their actions, nor makes any representation either express or implied as to their suitability. Carnival, in arranging for the services called for by the physician or nurse, all on board concessions, all shore excursion/tour tickets, all pre and post cruise airline flights or other transportation off of the ship and its tenders, does so only as a convenience for the Guest and Guests are free to use or not use these services. Guest agrees that Carnival assumes no responsibility, does not guarantee performance and in no event shall be liable for any negligent or intentional acts or omissions, loss, damage, injury or delay to Guest and/or Guest’s baggage, property or effects in connection with said services. Guests use the services of all independent contractors at the Guest’s sole risk. Independent contractors are entitled to make a proper charge for any service performed with respect to a Guest.

(b) Guest acknowledges that the ship’s masseuse, barber, hair dresser, manicurist, fitness or golf instructor, videographer, art auctioneer, gift shop personnel, wedding planners or other providers of personal services are employees of independent contractors and Carnival is not responsible for their actions. Guest further acknowledges that although independent contractors or their employees may use signage or clothing which contains the name “Carnival” or other related trade names or logos, the independent contractor status remains unchanged. Independent contractors, their employees and assistants are not agents, servants or employees of Carnival and have no authority to act on behalf of Carnival.

Sarge if you start with the phrase that starts with "nor makes any representation either etc" then you take the claim of the 17 people, that they did ie the cruise director mr price stated he guaranteed safety, you take his "profesional standing" would you not agree that the 17 and probably many more, take this as fact, and remember that it will be a judge who will make the decision, I know what I would do, so I find it hard to understand why you are so positive carnival is not liable, unless you make your judgement based on the same banal analogies used by dianne, her husbands mirror, and the holiday inn. regards

[El Chief]

OK I have watched this enough without commenting. Sargent Schultz in post #641, referred to this Lethe Village Crime as a "simple robbery case". Then, this morning the gentleman from "Hebron Travel" said that this was an "off ship" incident, therefore Carnival had no involvement.

 

You are both wrong. When my family purchased those "four excursion tickets", from a Travel Agent in Austin Texas, our understanding was that, this excursion, for which that Travel Agent acted as the "seller's agent", would be provided by Carnival. It was not separate from the cruise, but a "Carnival provided" extension of it.

 

Now to this "simple robbery case", my family consists of one daughter, two granddaughters 12 and 14 years old, and one wife that has been eligible for SS for a while (I'm not allowed to give her age). When those "thugs" came out of that jungle, with the machete and guns, they made it very clear that this was more than a robbery; but, also a "hate crime". The three f's were used in every sentence, (f------ foreign freaks), and they threatened to kill everyone on that trolley, repeatedly. Sir, my entire family was robbed of everything they had, and had their lives threatened there; there is nothing "simple" about it.

 

El Chief

[kwilliams6045]

Sargent,

 

Here is the information that I have. I do stand corrected on the unemployment rate for males. It is 76% that are in the labor force. This does change my thoughts on why their crime rate is so high. Now I am baffled.

 

Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

 

 

http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20070125/lead/lead5.html

 

http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20070623/news/news1.html

 

http://www.caribbeannetnews.com/2006/01/09/capital.shtml

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/caribbean/news/story/2006/01/060103_murderlist.shtml

 

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/staff/pablo_bachelet/story/16204.html

 

http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20070504/lead/lead1.html

 

http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20070506/cleisure/cleisure1.html

 

http://www.jamaicancaves.org/jamaica-crime.htm

 

http://www.jamaicans.com/articles/primecomments/jamaicacrimedilemma.shtml

 

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

 

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita

http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20060109/cleisure/cleisure4.html

 

http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20070125/lead/lead5.html

[bunting]

Sarge if you start with the phrase that starts with "nor makes any representation either etc" then you take the claim of the 17 people, that they did ie the cruise director mr price stated he guaranteed safety, you take his "profesional standing" would you not agree that the 17 and probably many more, take this as fact, and remember that it will be a judge who will make the decision, I know what I would do, so I find it hard to understand why you are so positive carnival is not liable, unless you make your judgement based on the same banal analogies used by dianne, her husbands mirror, and the holiday inn. regards

 

Again for me I go back to the ICCL website - Carnival is a member of the CLIA (who have now amalgated with CLIA) - it said............

 

Quote Choose shore excursions recommended by the cruise line from reputable and established operators that have undergone a stringent evaluation Unquote

 

So surely somebody should be taking responsibility, you cannot make public statements, in the ICCL press release and then the Cruise Director, that emphasise the safer option is the cruise line recommended excursion and then say not our responsibility it went wrong....... so who did the stringent evaluation, how often is it done, what did they find, (or is this just a phrase used on a website to create a sense of security?)