17 People robbed on Conquest Jamaica excursion

[cruisers7771]

Sad story but like most have said, you enter at your own risk.

 

Here is CC story about it:

http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=2090

[truecruiser]

TC...you've been to Jamaica before haven't you?

 

no. never.

[Calicruiser101]

no. never.

Hey True, it is has been awhile. How are you? What a heated argument this has turned into.

[truecruiser]

Hey True, it is has been awhile. How are you? What a heated argument this has turned into.

 

hey there. DH decided to stop messin' w/ ya? took away the twins via remote access, LOL.:p

 

most threads get there one way or another.:cool: :D

[L2J]

no. never.

 

Me thinks you're worrying about nuttin'

 

(don't go to the open air market though ;))

[kwilliams6045]

I am glad to see the post start again.

 

I know there are many people that don't understand why I am so persistant on this matter. I never would believe that I would take it this far neither, but their is soemthing inside of me that has changed forever and I have a passion to get this word out. (Before you ask, this is not controling my life, I check the computer in the morning and maby twice through out the day. I never check it on weekends. My weekends and evenings are dedicated to my family)

 

This is not just for Jamaica, though I know it appears that way. I know there are several good Jamaican people on that island, but as I have EXTENSIVELY researched Jamaica, you just cannot ignore the dangers. I do blame the government of that country for not providing any services for their people, forcing them into a life of crime. They have sevral issues that need to be addressed.

 

For those, who have said that I am going to make their situation worse by suggesting that people don't go there, research the tourist dollar and you will see: It does not go to the people, it goes to a few that own the tourist attractions. That money does not filter down to all. The owners make money. The average yearly income is $3,400.00 dollars.

 

Many of you have been there, some several times. You have never experienced any danger. I hope that no one will. I just encourage anyone, who is planning to travel to ANY destination, PLEASE research that destination and check for the criminal statistics. If they are like Jamaica and have not updated their stats since 2000, beware. Google search crime in that area and do the best you can. I especially stress this to anyone carrying children with them. Don't make the same mistake I did.

 

Many have attacked me, saying that Carnival is not responsible, and questioning my motive. I do believe that if Carnival is going to push the shore excursion, claiming that they are extensively researched and that they are the only way to see Jamaica safely, then they should not send a group of tourist into the murder capital of a country that is the murder capital of the world and an area that has increasingly high rape and robberies. (The statements I have just made are true and I have posted the web links that I have obtained my information in my earlier post). If they did research the tour, they would have found this. If they did find this, do you think it reasonable to send tourist their, especially elderly, handi-capped and children? Here is what made up this tourist group: 4 children (14, 12, 12, 10). 2 handicapped. 6 senior citizens (50+), and 5 under 50.

 

I have found that most of the peole that have become upset with me are in the travel industry and I completely undertsand your position and your concern. I hope you understand that I am a life long Public Servant. I was in the US ARMY prior to my 17 year Law Enforcement carreer. It is in my blood to feel protective for citizens especially my family (and before you say it, yes I should have known better before going somewhere without researching it). I'm sure many people think that cops don't really care about the public ( I also know that many do understand us), but if you saw my pay check, you know I don't do it for the money.

 

I have always thought outside the box, whether it is in an investigation of a crime, or whatever I have tackled. That is why I came up with the E-Bay listing. It may seem extreme and even crazy to some, but it works. I have had several hits and messages on my first listing, before E-Bay pulled it. It is now re-listed, following the E-Bay rules, and so far it is getting some attention.

 

Again, I want to stress, this travel warning is meant for any destination.

 

Thanks for your post and I hope you do undertsand what I am doing.

 

If not bring your question foward and I will answer it the best I can.

[RobertGT]

You put your story on ebay? why?

As tragic as it is. I am sorry for your anxiety and all that you went through but why ebay?

[Hedocple]

You put your story on ebay? why?

As tragic as it is. I am sorry for your anxiety and all that you went through but why ebay?

 

Good question!

 

Since this thread won't go away my family suggest doing the Bob Marley Bus adventure out of Ocho Rios. We had an awesome time! Check out all of our JA photos in our webshots albums. And no we're not travel agents.

 

BTW...Jamiaca ranks as the 8th top foreign vacation destination for Amercian travelers. Ahead of Japan and the Bahamas. Good luck getting Carnival to pull out.

[kwilliams6045]

E-Bay is a place that the travel industry advertise trips. Many people planning on taking a trip look there. It is getting plenty of exposure and it that is what I am trying to do. I am contemplating running adds in the Houston Chronicle's travel section, notifying anyone, who plans on taking a cruise, please e-mail me for a true story. It has been re-listed for about 26 hours and has had 95 hits. It should have several more once it gets closer to the end of the listing. I said earlier, It's about thinking outside the box. No matter how extreme or crazy it sounds, it gets the job done.

 

You can say what you want about the cruise lines, but they need to wake up and take more steps to secure the safety of their passengers. My story is one of many, involving cruises.

 

Being that Jamica is ranked 8th, is even more of a reason to get this story out. They are ranked #1 in homicides. I wish I had a number on how many people go there that do not know that information.

 

Thanks for your post and question.

[Houtx1559]

Being that Jamaica is ranked 8th, is even more of a reason to get this story out. They are ranked #1 in homicides. I wish I had a number on how many people go there that do not know that information.

 

Thanks for your post and question.

 

Kenneth, I still haven't heard you mention if you have contacted our State Department and requested a travel advisory be placed on Jamaica. There is an office in Houston. This would be very helpful. Embassy personnel in Jamaica are told not to use public transport, and not to be out after dark in any case.

 

I also have a question for everyone else that has been to the eastern caribbean since I've only been in the west. Is there any other port, besides Jamaica, where Passengers are searched, and sometimes arrested by local authorities getting back ON the ship? I've never heard of that happening anywhere but Jamaica.

[gtouch]

Just a quick note about Jamaica. There were 6 of us in our party and half did the horse back trip and the other half did the ATV trip. Both had great times, felt perfectly safe and thought all involved were professional, personable and made the trips fun. We did not venture alone on the Island so I cannot tell what that is like. Jamaica was the only port that we used Carnival to make our reservations. On both Grand Cayman and Cozumel we used Island Marketing and they were great also. I still think that the robbery was an isolated case for the tours. I am not making a statement on the total security of Jamaica as I don't know. But all the cruise ships and all the Resorts and all those vacationers taking tours and such that robbery doesn't sound as if everyone is at great peril. You can tell your story all you want that is your right. I'm sorry anyone had to endure that. But my brother is a Police Lt. in Arizona and he has much more chilling stories right here in the US.

[HookedOnCruisin'2]

I have not read the entire thread but a good portion of it. I do feel bad for the families who had to deal with the robbery, especially the children. However, I cannot help but wonder how Carnival or anyone else should be held responsible for the actions of other people? If it were a Carnival employee I could see it but nobody can predict people's behavior. Kwilliams, being a police officer you should know that.

 

I've not been to Jamaica and don't know if I will. I will not quit cruising though and whether or not I book excursions through the ship won't have anything to do with safety..... only money and time constraints, things of that nature.

 

I understand public servancy. My husband spent 9 years in the military and my son is currently an MP preparing for deployment to Iraq (definitely a much more dangerous place for an American than Jamaica). I am a nurse and while I often get comments about how much nurses make, I sure don't make a huge salary.

[kwilliams6045]

Ask you brother, who is a LT. in Arizona, if he has ever worked a group of tourist being robbed at the Grand Canyon. I too have seen much worse, but it has not involved a group of tourist on a tour. We work out of Galveston, Texas and it is a tourist area.

 

I have contacted the State Department. I have two friends that are FBI agents and just so everyone knows, if it happens in another country they do not investigate at all, unless the authorities do not do anything. The FBI will then contact them and "nudge" them along, if possible.

 

I too took some "wonderfull" pictures of my Jamaica trip. Before they robbed me of my camera, I took the memory card out and placed it in my mouth. I have posted these on my E-Bay listing. I have posted the listing link here so you can take a look.

 

 

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=330151727244&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=014

 

Thanks for the questions and comments.

[kwilliams6045]

This is an e-mail that I received from Bluebonnet's father. Bluebonnet was the one that first posted this story.

 

Kenneth, please pass a question to "gtouch" for me. I will accept that

 

a Police Lt. in Arizona will have "chilling Stories". But, were his

young children involved? Were they called freaks, did they have guns

shoved into their faces? Did they have unstable thugs threatening to

kill them. Were they robbed of every thing they had, the most

important

of all their "security". If this happened to that gentlemen and his

family, I will support any action that he deems proper. I will not

throw "verbal darts" at him or his family.

 

One "typo correction" Bluebonnet is our daughter, I would like to

correct that our granddaughters that were victims are 12 and 14 (not 24

 

as shown) in the posting of her letter.

 

[Kurbanfan]

I also have a question for everyone else that has been to the eastern caribbean since I've only been in the west. Is there any other port, besides Jamaica, where Passengers are searched, and sometimes arrested by local authorities getting back ON the ship? I've never heard of that happening anywhere but Jamaica.

 

I have never been to any port that have scum of the earth trying to sell drugs and prostitution right when you get off the ship at the pier in front of so called security.........except for Jamaica:(

And I have been to alot of ports......

 

As far as searching while getting back on the ship....it does happen from time to time. Not in the Caribbean but when getting back on the ship in Ensenada one time we all had to stand in line outside the ship while security used the wand on everyone.

[halos]

.

 

BTW...Jamiaca ranks as the 8th top foreign vacation destination for Amercian travelers. Ahead of Japan and the Bahamas. Good luck getting Carnival to pull out.

 

What you are not mentioning is that although Jamaica may be a great destination for travelers, if you go on a land vacation there, you are told to STAY IN THE RESORT AREA.

Being in a little bubble of safeness at a resort is perfectly safe and I'd go to Jamaica in an eyeblink to a resort...but with all the incidents of robberies (especially violent ones like this) I do think that the cruise lines should threaten to pull out. The island officials need to make sure that stuff like this isn't a common occurence. They need the tourist dollars, they should find a way to keep the tourists a bit safer IMO.

Crime can happen anywhere, but Jamaica seem to be less safe than other places.

[L2J]

Kenneth, I still haven't heard you mention if you have contacted our State Department and requested a travel advisory be placed on Jamaica. There is an office in Houston. This would be very helpful. Embassy personnel in Jamaica are told not to use public transport, and not to be out after dark in any case.

 

I also have a question for everyone else that has been to the eastern caribbean since I've only been in the west. Is there any other port, besides Jamaica, where Passengers are searched, and sometimes arrested by local authorities getting back ON the ship? I've never heard of that happening anywhere but Jamaica.

 

I haven't looked at the DoS website for travel warnings recently but I don't think they would issue one for this?

 

I suspect it could happen at any port.

[Longin2cruise]

kwilliams6045,

 

I applaud you for your efforts to get the message out there. However, I suspect that Jamaica is not the only dangerous port out there. I also suspect that Carnival is not the only cruise lines that doesn't tell the whole story about the ports they visit. I've been to Jamaica 3 times, the last two time swearing that I wouldn't get off the ship, but I did. The geography of Jamaica is so beautiful, I just couldn't help myself. Luckily for me, nothing bad happened, but as far as I'm concerned I've never really felt safe. I visited Colon, Panama on a Carnival Sprit cruise several years ago but just spent my time in the port area shopping. The enclosed port area was heavily guarded by army personnel with machine guns. I didn't see the Carnival tour buses leave, but when they returned they were escorted by 4 armed motorcycle policemen, 2 in the front & 2 in the back. I'm assuming that the policemen were not along just for a fun ride. The same cruise we also went to Limon, Costa Rica. I took a tour of a banana plantation which was guarded by armed men employed by the plantation. On the way to the plantation we also saw families swimming in the ocean, but other civilians were guarding the beach with shotguns & rifles. Our guide told us that a medical doctor in Costa Rica makes about $1,100.00 per month so poverty there is a real issue too. Also, Costa Rica does not have an army, they use what little federal money they have for education instead. At lease they're trying to make a better life for their children. I don't know wny the cruise lines choose some of the ports, but I'm pretty sure that all of us need to do research before we go. Your efforts to get the message out there should help others to understand what could happen. It's for sure that we'll never hear it from Carnival or any other cruise line or travel agent. I will continue to cruise & go on tours but I know I'm not assured of safety. As far as crime in the US goes..........most of us know the "bad" areas of our own cities & what to avoid & know to lock our car doors when we drive anywhere, good or bad

to avoid carjackings. Even at that, I've just narrowly missed being caught in a robbery at my bank..........not a good feeling. If we could just wipe out poverty & drugs, this sure would be a better world.

[kwilliams6045]

As far as the resort areas, if you look at some of the crime stories, you will see that many people have been broken into during the night as they were in their rooms at the resort. One man was on a secure resort golf course, when a man came out of the jungle, vegitation or what ever you want to call it and robbed him.

 

I was speaking with soemone at work and she made a good statement, in regards to crime in the US and how it differs from this crime.

 

1) This crime happened on a private plantation.

 

2) US tour companies do not send people on tours of the "gheto" areas. They don't sell tours that take you into somewhere like Compton, CA. or any other area that is heavily saturated with the criminal element. Unfortunatley, I would guess that Jamaica in general is about 80% saturated with the criminal element. (That is an unkown percentage, but just a guess)

[halos]

When we did our Panama Canal crossing cruise last year, we were told by Celebrity that they recommend we do not get off the ship.

People did anyway.

At one point, there were people unaccounted for. As it was, the people made it back to the ship, although a bit late. The Maitre'd told us that night that the Captain and officers were quite upset and very relieved to see everyone back safe.

 

CCL does a Panama cruise, I wonder if they recommend that people stay on the ship, or if they encourage people to get off??????????

[Hedocple]

 

I would guess that Jamaica in general is about 80% saturated with the criminal element. (That is an unkown percentage, but just a guess)

 

It's statements like this that make me question every statistic you've thrown at us.

[nmcrzer]

I suspect it could happen at any port.

 

Sure it could. But the chances of it happening in a drug- and crime-infested port are much greater. Just like your chances of being hit by a car increase when you are in a place with more cars. Sure, a car accident could happen anywhere, but it is less likely with fewer cars.

 

I was on the Conquest last year, and our stop in Jamaica nearly ruined my appetite for cruising altogether. I couldn't believe that Carnival (or any other cruise line) would stop in such a place. As soon as I heard on the news that Pax had been held at gunpoint on a Carnival excursion, I figured the Pax were from the Conquest and the port was Jamaica. I just had a sinking feeling.

 

Kenneth, I am so sorry you went through that ordeal. And it is so sad that you are now subjected to the rude comments of others when all you are trying to do is make people aware. Thank you for telling your story. If you convince just one person to do his/her research, you could be saving that person a lot of stress.

 

I'm not sure what dent, if any, my actions will make, but I will not book another cruise with Jamaica on the itinerary. If by chance I am on a ship that gets diverted there, I will stay on the ship. I wish I would have paid more attention to the warnings on these boards before I got off the ship in Jamaica last year. I figured people were overly sensitive or were overreacting. I now realize I was mistaken.

 

No more Jamaica for me!

[Houtx1559]

I haven't looked at the DoS website for travel warnings recently but I don't think they would issue one for this?

 

There is currently no specific travel warning, though there probably should be

 

I suspect it could happen at any port.

 

OK, so name me one other port where passengers returning to the ship have been searched, arrested, and charged large "fines" by local authorities for drugs pushed on them by "police informants"? I've never heard of that anywhere but Jamaica.

[bunting]

When we did our Panama Canal crossing cruise last year, we were told by Celebrity that they recommend we do not get off the ship.

People did anyway.

At one point, there were people unaccounted for. As it was, the people made it back to the ship, although a bit late. The Maitre'd told us that night that the Captain and officers were quite upset and very relieved to see everyone back safe.

 

CCL does a Panama cruise, I wonder if they recommend that people stay on the ship, or if they encourage people to get off??????????

 

But you then wonder why they stopped in the port.....sounds like Celebrity covering themselves e.g. if the people did have some type of incident....¨well, we recommended not to get off the ship¨. To me, if the line makes that recommendation you need to wonder why they called in the port in the first place

[halos]

But you then wonder why they stopped in the port.....sounds like Celebrity covering themselves e.g. if the people did have some type of incident....¨well, we recommended not to get off the ship¨. To me, if the line makes that recommendation you need to wonder why they called in the port in the first place

That's a great question.

I don't know for sure...to pick up supplies???? Gas up???

LOL, there must be a reason for it. I have no clue what it could be. I don't think it's to 'cover' themselves, but to be honest I didn't question it. If I'm told it's best to stay on board, I just do.

The odd thing was the the Celebrity Today! paper didn't mention anything about not getting off the ship, this was something announced by the cruise director during the presentation they give on the TV in the mornings. We were docked at Cristobal Pier from 5 to 11 pm.