17 People robbed on Conquest Jamaica excursion

[kwilliams6045]

Hed,

 

I have everything and have posted everything on this site and others that back up my stats. The last statement I made, I followed up clearly that it was a guess. Go back and read it, you will see.

 

I will be happy to post every site that backs up the other stats posted if you would like.

 

Thanks for your remarks and I hope you had a chance to see the beautiful pics I took in Jamaica.

[AmberTeka]

Carnival knows by now that Jamaica is dangerous. Even Hertz and Avis will not cars there because of the crime rate. We went there two years ago and there is a hostility and dislike for tourists that one feels no where else.

 

So why do they stop there? Are they waiting for someone to be killed? There are not other Islands where they could stop? For goodness sakes, call off the silly barricade of Cuba and stop there! If our govt. can do a booming business with Red China, poisoned food and all, why in the world can we not stop in Cuba? Are they to be The Living Dead forever because Batistta was overthrown and his people fled to Miami?

[Calicruiser101]

Hed,

 

I have everything and have posted everything on this site and others that back up my stats. The last statement I made, I followed up clearly that it was a guess. Go back and read it, you will see.

 

I will be happy to post every site that backs up the other stats posted if you would like.

 

Thanks for your remarks and I hope you had a chance to see the beautiful pics I took in Jamaica.

 

I think you are doing a great job of letting people know the truth about Jamica and then allowing them to make of their minds for themselves. I do not see you telling them they should never, ever go there, rather I see you providing information and past experience both on the job and from a tourist's point of view. Keep it up. I am so tired of reading on here that crime happens everywhere, really?:rolleyes: :rolleyes: Of course it does, but we don't normally spend thousands of dollars to vacation there nor would we think of taking our children to such a place. This is the difference, it seems rather obvious to me. I believe that is the point you are trying to make.:) Secondly, not sure which poster it was the, but the one w/ the John Wayne story and seemed to be full of false bravado whilst sitting safely at his computer. He seemed to be telling you to get over it and the fact that you are in L.E. meant you would not need help w/ this tragedy, seemed to forget that facing danger is very different when it is just you, but is a whole different event when it involves your family.

Lastly, the person who brought up some relative in Az. who has seen worse things than this, yes, but did they involve a gun in their daughter's face? This is the difference.

Keep up the faith and getting your story out there. You proved yourself to your family that day.

Michelle

[lookin4fun@sea]

Our TA has always said, "there is nothing in Jamaica worth getting off the ship for". We found that out for ourselves when we ventured off our ship anyway and were offered every type of drug for sale right outside the dock fence. The natives were so aggressive we went right back to the ship after 10 minutes. Why not enjoy the ship, the spa, the quiet pool instead of wasting your money in such a 'thug' port!!

[skyking]

As far as the resort areas, if you look at some of the crime stories, you will see that many people have been broken into during the night as they were in their rooms at the resort. One man was on a secure resort golf course, when a man came out of the jungle, vegitation or what ever you want to call it and robbed him.

 

I was speaking with soemone at work and she made a good statement, in regards to crime in the US and how it differs from this crime.

 

1) This crime happened on a private plantation.

 

2) US tour companies do not send people on tours of the "gheto" areas. They don't sell tours that take you into somewhere like Compton, CA. or any other area that is heavily saturated with the criminal element. Unfortunatley, I would guess that Jamaica in general is about 80% saturated with the criminal element. (That is an unkown percentage, but just a guess)

 

Sir,

 

I stand behind you 100% and agree with what you are doing. People are so closed minded, and can say all they want, but I guarantee you that if it was them that had a gun pointed in their childs face it would be totally different. So go ahead, get off the ship in Jamaica, get robbed, get kidnapped in a taxi as my wife and I were on our honeymoon, and then see how you feel. I know one thing for sure, we will not get off the ship next time we visit Jamaica.

[ILUVCRUZEN]

Our TA has always said, "there is nothing in Jamaica worth getting off the ship for". We found that out for ourselves when we ventured off our ship anyway and were offered every type of drug for sale right outside the dock fence. The natives were so aggressive we went right back to the ship after 10 minutes. Why not enjoy the ship, the spa, the quiet pool instead of wasting your money in such a 'thug' port!!

 

We too were offered drugs for sale when we visitied Jamaica. The people are very bold and don't even try to hide the fact they are trying to sell drugs to tourists.

[Sargent_Schultz]

It's statements like this that make me question every statistic you've thrown at us.

 

You are getting warm - it is not the statistics being thrown around, but something else that stinkith. Perhaps the numbers are accurate, perhaps not; it doesn't matter. At a minimum, the statistics being tossed about are hearsay. Any law enforcement officer would know that. Be that as it may, the statistics being tossed about so carelessly are simply not applicable (aka not relevant) to tourists in Jamaica in general, much less cruise ship passengers.

 

Stat 101:

Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics

This well-known saying is part of a phrase attributed to Benjamin Disraeli and popularized in the U.S. by Mark Twain: There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics. The semi-ironic statement refers to the persuasive power of numbers, and succinctly describes how even accurate statistics can be used to bolster inaccurate arguments.

[L2J]

There is currently no specific travel warning, though there probably should be

 

 

 

OK, so name me one other port where passengers returning to the ship have been searched, arrested, and charged large "fines" by local authorities for drugs pushed on them by "police informants"? I've never heard of that anywhere but Jamaica.

 

Perhaps.

 

From my experinece...I can't...that is whay I said "I suspect it could happen at any port" - they key word being "suspect."

 

Jamaica was a stop on my first cruise and while I'd never been there before it was the reason I chose that itinerary...it was the highlight of the cruise (besides the fact the ex and I decided the marriage wasn't worth it) ;)

 

Bottom line is that something like this (or worse could happen anywhere): The recent Sun Princess incident, The incident on X last year (S. America?) where the bus rolled down a steep hill killing 12 from a travel goup, and I believe there was an incident in St. Thomas a couple years ago where a ship pax was killed during a robbery attempt(??)

[kwilliams6045]

Sargent,

 

You say that the statistics are hear say and any LE officer would know that. You are simply wrong. You know nothing about LE then, if you don't believe the accuracy of stats and feel they are only "hears say". That is all the Administration wants to know "What our stats are for the month". They report them to the state and they report them to the feds.

 

The FBI would not publish national stats if they were not important to the people and the government systems through out our country. You think the FBI says " You know I hear that the homicide rate for the country is ...OH,,, I don't know about 5.6 murders per 100,000 inhabitants...OK that sounds good, let's use that." Do you really believe that?

 

The stats I posted are true and correct, according to sources that published them. The sources happen to be the BBC, World Bank, Jamaican Gleaner and the Jamaican Government. Are you saying that they are only reporting "hear say"?

 

Thanks for your post, but please answer the question. Do you really believe your own statement?

[Houtx1559]

Bottom line is that something like this (or worse could happen anywhere): The recent Sun Princess incident, The incident on X last year (S. America?) where the bus rolled down a steep hill killing 12 from a travel goup, and I believe there was an incident in St. Thomas a couple years ago where a ship pax was killed during a robbery attempt(??)

 

You miss the point entirely. None of the incidents you mention involved the "government" of that place. In Jamaica the "government" isn't trying to "correct" the problem, the "government" is (at least part of) the problem! A situation that just doesn't exist at other ports.

[newmexicoNita]

Was the tour Guide EMPLOYED by Carnival or was it just the EXCURSION that was BOOKED by Carnival?

 

I realize that Jamaica, is a very poor area that has a high crime rate , but so are a LOT of other places.(the southside of Oklahoma City, for instance)

I Fail to see How/Why you THINK Carnival could/should be blamed for the criminal acts that was bestowed upon several passengers.

YES, it's Carnival's responsibility to Protect the passengers while OnBoard the ship or on any of Carnival Property.(if the criminal acts happened away from Carnival Property, how/why would Carnival be held responsible.)

MY Opinion, is that each person should be WARNED & AWARE that they are taking a RISK by getting OFF the ship.(if you took a taxi to NYC or Los Angeles & got out of the taxi & was robbed, would you blame the cabbie for dropping you off?)

As with nearly ANY city you go to.....You Enter At Your Own Risk!

I agree, you really can't blame the cruise line, these tour companies are contracted, that is all. I would imagine, as soon as this happened (almost 2 months ago now) Carnival dropped the tour. Even the tour operators can't be held responisible unless they were part of the robery.

Golly, I can't imagine how scarey this must have been for everyone. I, for one, would never get off the ship in Jamaica. I am not sure I would take a cruise with a Jamaica port involved. That is just me.

 

When we sailed HAL last fall/winter, we were forwarned about the dangers of Panama and advised to either take a tour with the ship or to do nothing other than walk to the little shopping center in the terminal. that is what we did, we loved the home made items, had fun looking around for a few minutes and back on the ship we went.

 

Nita

[newmexicoNita]

I had heard bad reports about Ocho Rios...this is the first I've heard about Montego Bay. We were there and on a tour without a problem. However, I appreciate the knowledge that this took place. (having not heard it on the news)

 

I didn't doubt that there was a tour guide...I just wonder what the tour guide and bus driver were doing when all this happened. Granted if guns were involved the thing to do is to keep everyone from getting hurt. If Carnival doesn't know about what happened by now...every one should let them know. For now...perhaps all that should be done is that that particular excursion be discontinued. Although I feel sorry for the people who run the excursion and they lose their income. It's really a tough call. I personally am not sure how it should be handled.

 

gypsyrose...you may not have heard of anyone in the states stopping a bus at gun point...but we've seen planes taken over that way.

actually Montego Bay probably has a worse reputation than Ocho Rios. Neither are most peoples favorite ports or vacation places.

 

Nita

[Kurbanfan]

When we sailed HAL last fall/winter, we were forwarned about the dangers of Panama and advised to either take a tour with the ship or to do nothing other than walk to the little shopping center in the terminal. that is what we did, we loved the home made items, had fun looking around for a few minutes and back on the ship we went.

 

Nita

 

And that is exactly the same thing Carnival said to the OP. That's why they agreed to take the ship tour:eek:

[fin]

When the Ecstasy docked there post canal, I locked all my valuables, wristwatch included, in my room safe and took about three us dollars with me and my key card...nothing else.

 

I walked into town looking for popcorn since there was none aboard, and for every person who stopped me, I loudly said 'this is not my first visit here, so every single thing of value that I own is aboard ship'.

 

Frankly, the Jamaican govt will NOT get the message unless and until the cruise lines give the island a pass for a few months. There is no excuse for this type of animal behavior ... none.

[standby 06.30]

Within the last 5yrs in Miami hire car firms had to make there hire cars out of the dock and airport less easy to spot, this was after a large number of uk tourists, were car jacked at gun point, one poor guy from my area, was with his wife and 2 kids, tried to resist and was shot dead, at the time there was no backlash from the brits we just took advice travelled and did not feel compelled to insult the USA, because of this crime wave, regards

[Sargent_Schultz]

What I am saying is that you are not an expert on Jamaica and you are abusing statistics in an attempt to make a mountain out of a simple robbery.

 

Most of the murders are drug related and political gang related. I don't think tourists usually fit in those categories

 

What is the murder rate of the city of Houston vs. the murder rate in the River Oaks area, and is there a correlation between the two?

 

I don't dispute the numbers (other than that 80% figure which is absurd) - I don't care what the numbers are - they are not applicable to the federal case you are attempting to make.

[Sargent_Schultz]

There is currently no specific travel warning, though there probably should be

 

 

 

OK, so name me one other port where passengers returning to the ship have been searched, arrested, and charged large "fines" by local authorities for drugs pushed on them by "police informants"? I've never heard of that anywhere but Jamaica.

 

So how much were you fined?

 

"Pushed" on you? Just say NO!. I think it is great that they are doing something to help stem the flow of drugs into the US. Lord knows the US War on drugs is a complete failure.

 

If the US wasn't addicted to drugs there wouldn't be so many drugs in Jamaica and crime in Jamaica would be reduced.

[98Charlie]

If the US wasn't addicted to drugs there wouldn't be so many drugs in Jamaica and crime in Jamaica would be reduced.

 

 

Not sure bout that fact.

 

From what I saw on my 4 days in Jamaica a few years go as a news reporter, corrupt governments lead to corrupt poverty and Jamaica is a product of that theory.

 

As I said before, I met many, many wonderful people on that trip who are hard working, live in poverty and don't ask for much in life.

 

However, there were US travel warnings up about Jamaica when I traveled there years ago and have seen travel warnings go up again since.

 

Dianne

[rob6465]

I agree with choclitsnda, I was raised in NYC in a very high crime area and now live in a very safe area in Houston, Texas. When you are in a poor area you tend to have individuals who nly think of committing crimes to visitors as well as their own. I truly believe that no matter where you go "something" might happen and you have to blame the "criminals" not Carnival. There are crimes in Cayman islands, mexico, beverly hills,manhattan,etc.

What i'm trying to say is your rolling the dice when you venture anywhere. If you feel you need to stay on the ship...STAY. If you want to go on a excursion....GO ! Just remember that Carnival is responsible for your stay ON the ship. My wife and I will be on our first cruise in September and we'll decide by then whether we will do excursions or not.

[Hedocple]

Hed,

 

I have everything and have posted everything on this site and others that back up my stats. The last statement I made, I followed up clearly that it was a guess. Go back and read it, you will see.

 

 

Then why post it?

[Hedocple]

Not sure bout that fact.

 

From what I saw on my 4 days in Jamaica a few years go as a news reporter, corrupt governments lead to corrupt poverty and Jamaica is a product of that theory.

 

As I said before, I met many, many wonderful people on that trip who are hard working, live in poverty and don't ask for much in life.

 

However, there were US travel warnings up about Jamaica when I traveled there years ago and have seen travel warnings go up again since.

 

Dianne

 

Do some research on the fact and see what you find....

 

“And the cocaine trade causes some of the biggest problems for law enforcement in Jamaica. This is largely because of Jamaica's position as a key hub in the shipment of cocaine from South America to the markets in North America and beyond.”

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/columns/html/20060304T160000-0500_99920_OBS_DRUG_TRADE_WILL_BE_ONE_OF_PORTIA_S_BIGGEST_CHALLENGES_.asp

[L2J]

You miss the point entirely. None of the incidents you mention involved the "government" of that place. In Jamaica the "government" isn't trying to "correct" the problem, the "government" is (at least part of) the problem! A situation that just doesn't exist at other ports.

 

No I did not miss the point. Jamaica isn't the only place with a corrupt Government nor is it the only place one could get in trouble. My point was that no matter where someone goes - the potential is always there.

 

Personally I can't wait to take another cruise and stop in Jamaica...it is a beautiful island. Someday I'd like to stay at a resort or two there...already have them picked out.

[Kurbanfan]

Then why post it?

 

Why so defensive:confused: The Op is not telling people not to go to Jamaica.

He is just getting his story out for people to make up their own minds.

If you feel safe then by all means go......

[98Charlie]

Do some research on the fact and see what you find....

 

“And the cocaine trade causes some of the biggest problems for law enforcement in Jamaica. This is largely because of Jamaica's position as a key hub in the shipment of cocaine from South America to the markets in North America and beyond.”

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/columns/html/20060304T160000-0500_99920_OBS_DRUG_TRADE_WILL_BE_ONE_OF_PORTIA_S_BIGGEST_CHALLENGES_.asp

 

 

I did some research while I was there and saw the law enforcement looking the other way while this was happening. Law enforcement is part of government. Corrupt government breeds corruption. I stand by what I said.

 

Dianne

[L2J]

Dang...you all are gettin pretty testy here.

 

Anyone care to join me for a beer? (I'm not serving Miller Chill :p)