17 People robbed on Conquest Jamaica excursion

[98Charlie]

Dang...you all are gettin pretty testy here.

 

Anyone care to join me for a beer? (I'm not serving Miller Chill :p)

 

A cold beer with a side of Jamaican jerk chicken would be great.:D

 

Dianne

[Hedocple]

Why so defensive:confused: The Op is not telling people not to go to Jamaica.

He is just getting his story out for people to make up their own minds.

If you feel safe then by all means go......

 

True...If you take another look you'll realize that my response was not to the OP.

[Hedocple]

I did some research while I was there and saw the law enforcement looking the other way while this was happening. Law enforcement is part of government. Corrupt government breeds corruption. I stand by what I said.

 

Dianne

 

Very true! Unfortunately not just Jamaica.

[Kurbanfan]

True...If you take another look you'll realize that my response was not to the OP.

 

Ok so maybe I worded that wrong. I should have said one of the victims who went thru such a horrible ordeal is just trying to get their story

out :cool:

Still does not change my point...

[Kurbanfan]

A cold beer with a side of Jamaican jerk chicken would be great.:D

 

Dianne

 

That would be a red stripe and jerk chicken:D

[98Charlie]

Very true! Unfortunately not just Jamaica.

 

Jamaica seems to be one of the worse for the drug trade and I do believe it is because the country is divided into a strong class system, the rich get richer and the poor who want to get out of poverty are drawn into the drug trade.

 

I truly believe if tourists stop feeding the tourist trade there the rich would not continue to get richer and the people below the drug sellers would have no one to work for anymore.

 

Dianne

[98Charlie]

That would be a red stripe and jerk chicken:D

 

Yes, followed by a Jamaican Rum chaser.

 

Jamaica has a lot to offer. I'd go back in a minute if I thought I'd be safe. I knew I was safe on my 4-day trip there because I was with a mission group. No matter what their means of making illegal money may be, the Jamaicans are deeply religious for the most part.

 

Dianne

[Aplmac]

To correct this problem

if ships have to pull out of Jamaica for the safety of the passengers,

then yes the lines need to do that.

It is not forever, just to make a point.

 

A one year absence of all cruise-ships from Jamaica,

just to make a point, should smarten up local law enforcement.

Believe me, strategies like that hurt local island economies enough

to make the local politicians sit up and think for a change.

 

In many of these islands, let me assure you that nothing gets done, really done

'until Push come to Shove' as we say (translation: reaches a crisis point).

[Hedocple]

Jamaica seems to be one of the worse for the drug trade and I do believe it is because the country is divided into a strong class system, the rich get richer and the poor who want to get out of poverty are drawn into the drug trade.

 

I truly believe if tourists stop feeding the tourist trade there the rich would not continue to get richer and the people below the drug sellers would have no one to work for anymore.

 

Dianne

 

I think you’re mistaking the correlation between small time marijuana sales to tourist with cocaine trafficking through Jamaica from South America and its final destination the U.S. and Europe. Shutting down tourism will not keep major drugs from passing through JA therefore reducing Jamaican on Jamaican crime associated with it.

Same thing goes for Mexico for that fact.

[mudpievelour]

I can't believe this thread is still around. Yes, the Jamaican government is corrupt, but so are many governments of smaller, poorer countries. Take Mexico for an example. At least the government knows where a lot of its money is coming from -- tourists! And it will go to desparate lengths to protect that money.

 

The problem here is that the government is not that concerned with the tourist trade. I guess they feel that they make enough money on drugs. My opinion, and it is just an opinion, is that there are many other ports of call that we could be visiting, and if Carnival (and other cruise lines) would do that, maybe the Jamaican government would feel the pinch of losing the tourist trade and do something about it.

[Hedocple]

A one year absence of all cruise-ships from Jamaica,

just to make a point, should smarten up local law enforcement.

Believe me, strategies like that hurt local island economies enough

to make the local politicians sit up and think for a change.

 

In many of these islands, let me assure you that nothing gets done, really done

'until Push come to Shove' as we say (translation: reaches a crisis point).

 

So where do we draw the line? Do we boycott all Caribbean Islands, Mexico, South & Central America, where crimes and killings against tourists have happend over the past year?

Rio:

“33 British tourists were robbed at gunpoint after their bus was stopped on a highway from the airport to downtown Rio”

“The previous evening, six men on three motorcycles intercepted a tour van carrying 14 tourists from various nations. Two men armed with pistols boarded the van and drove the tourists around for 10 minutes, stealing their money, cameras and watches, police said.”

“The murder of a 19-year-old Portuguese student on Copacabana beach and a rash of robberies have rekindled concerns about security in Brazil's top tourist city”

St. Lucia:

“A new police unit will be assigned to protect tourists in this Caribbean nation after recent high-profile attacks on foreigners, including the killing of a British woman.”

Mexico:

“Recently two Canadians were found murdered in their hotel room in a Mexican resort in Cancun. There has been an upward spike of Canadian tourist who have been killed in Mexico”

[Kurbanfan]

So where do we draw the line? Do we boycott all Caribbean Islands, Mexico, South & Central America, where crimes and killings against tourists have happend over the past year?

 

Rio:

“33 British tourists were robbed at gunpoint after their bus was stopped on a highway from the airport to downtown Rio”

 

“The previous evening, six men on three motorcycles intercepted a tour van carrying 14 tourists from various nations. Two men armed with pistols boarded the van and drove the tourists around for 10 minutes, stealing their money, cameras and watches, police said.”

 

“The murder of a 19-year-old Portuguese student on Copacabana beach and a rash of robberies have rekindled concerns about security in Brazil's top tourist city”

 

St. Lucia:

“A new police unit will be assigned to protect tourists in this Caribbean nation after recent high-profile attacks on foreigners, including the killing of a British woman.”

 

Mexico:

“Recently two Canadians were found murdered in their hotel room in a Mexican resort in Cancun. There has been an upward spike of Canadian tourist who have been killed in Mexico”

 

I think the whole point is that at the Jamaica port Carnival makes a point to inform the passengers of the dangers, tell the passengers to take the ship sponsored excursions to be safe, the only port that have scum of the earth waiting at the pier when you get off the ship to offer you drugs and prostitution in front of security no less......so that tells me they know it is very dangerous.......

 

Does this happen at any of the other ports Carnival sails to:confused: I can only assume no because I have not been to all the ports (yet:D )But if you can. ..please let me know which other ports are treated in such a manner?

[standby 06.30]

Carnival knows by now that Jamaica is dangerous. Even Hertz and Avis will not cars there because of the crime rate. We went there two years ago and there is a hostility and dislike for tourists that one feels no where else.

 

So why do they stop there? Are they waiting for someone to be killed? There are not other Islands where they could stop? For goodness sakes, call off the silly barricade of Cuba and stop there! If our govt. can do a booming business with Red China, poisoned food and all, why in the world can we not stop in Cuba? Are they to be The Living Dead forever because Batistta was overthrown and his people fled to Miami?

I lived and worked in Jamaica 30 yrs ago, we visit on occasion, last time was in jan, off the navigator, friends came over to meet us from spanish town, we had a good time, a lot of U K tourist visit, they take care, and for the most have few problem, as for Cuba tourists from the U K and europe go to Cuba alot, we have been as independant travellers, very pleasant trip, the people were very proud of there country, they seemed to like europeans a lot, we felt a lot more comfortable there than on Labadee, which we found to be a sanatised piece of land with hand picked people who would not frighten the passengers, not for us, we got the next tender back to the ship, the smell of exploitation was to much for us, maybe it is more about the type of visitor, regards

[kwilliams6045]

This has become very frustrating. I apologize for what is about to come. I am trying to express myself in a positive way and a way that EVERYONE can understand.

 

Please hear me out: I DON'T CARE if the cruise ships sail to JAMAICA, Iraq, Iran, North Korea, wherever. I don't care.

 

What I care about is that WHERE EVER THEY GO.....THEY NEED TO DEVULGE ALL SAFETY INFORMATION TO THE PASSENGERS SO THEY CAN MAKE AN INFORMED DECISION!!!!!!

 

Those of you who want to go to Jamaica....Go...Go 1,000 times. You are all adults and know the dangers of Jamaica. Quit hittimg me up about trying to keep you from going. I DON'T CARE IF ANYONE GOES TO JAMAICA.

 

As far as the stats go. I posted stats about Jamaica that I receievd from reliable sources. They were posted to bring to light the situation that EXIST in Jamaica. They are the MURDER CAPITAL OF THE WORLD (I don't care if it is the tourist or locals that are being MURDERED. IT IS STILL CONSIDERED MURDER. It tells you what type of people are on the island. IT TELLS THE DESPERATION OF THESE PEOPLE. IT TELLS THE LACK OF CONTROL THAT THE GOVERNMENT HAS.

 

I KNOW THERE IS SEVERAL THOUSAND WONDERFUL JAMAICANS. I wish I could help them all. Our tour guide and bus driver were wonderful Jamaicans, THAT IS WHY I PAID BOTH OF THEM A WEEKS PAY BEFORE WE LEFT THEM AFTER WE WERE ROBBED. MY WONDERFUL KIDS HUGGED THEM AND CRIED WITH THEM AFTER WE WERE ROBBED. THERE ARE WONDERFUL JAMAICANS ON THE ISLAND. ALL JAMAICANS ARE NOT BAD AND EVIL.

 

Talk all the crap about me that you want. Say that I am ignorant or whatever you want. I DON'T CARE ABOUT ANYTHING...EXCEPT GETTING THIS STORY OUT...IN AN ATTEMPT TO WARN ANY OTHER TRAVELERS WHO ARE LIKE ME AND MY FAMILY. TRAVELERS DESERVE TO KNOW AND IT IS OBVIOUS THAT THE CRUISE LINES ARE NOT GOING TO SAY ANYTHING AND BY SOME OF YOUR COMMENTS IT IS NOT THEIR RESPONISBILITY...WELL THEN I OFFICIALLY CLAIM IT " I PERSONALLY DECLARE IT MY RESPONSIBILITY" !!!!!

 

 

I ACKNOWLEDGE THAT CRIME DOES HAPPEN EVERYWHERE. Crime is more prevelant in certain areas. Crime is more likely to happen in certain areas.

 

IN MY OPINION, CARNIVAL IS RESPONSIBLE: In THEIR shore excursion, THEY claim that the tours are guaranteed SAFE and are EXTENSIVELY researched. The AREA OF OUR TOUR was named the MURDER CAPITAL OF JAMAICA with the highest numbers of murders year-to-date (2007). There were reports of increasingly high ROBBERY AND RAPE CRIMES. The JAMAICAN CRUISE SHIP ADVISORY BOARD declared the area a "High Crime" area and recommened extra police security in the area. Remember that was the CRUISE SHIP Advisory Board...Do you think they advised the CRUISE LINES about this information? If Carnival "Extensively" researched the tour, do you think they could find out the same things I did? If they did, do you think they should have warned us? Do you think they should have sent children, elderly and handi-caped people on that tour? If they did know all of that and sent us anyway...Are they responsible? If they did not extensively research the tour, but claimed to have, are they responsible? I say yes.

 

I hope I made myself VERY CLEAR, but just in case I did not...Please let me know on what is not clear and I will try to explain it better.

 

I do not mean to upset or degrade anyone on this site and I DO APPRECIATE EVERYONE'S HONEST OPINIONS, WHETHER THEY ARE LIKE MINE OR NOT.

 

Thansks for reading and I hope to see more opinions and suggestions.

[Houtx1559]

So how much were you fined?

 

"Pushed" on you? Just say NO!. I think it is great that they are doing something to help stem the flow of drugs into the US. Lord knows the US War on drugs is a complete failure.

 

If the US wasn't addicted to drugs there wouldn't be so many drugs in Jamaica and crime in Jamaica would be reduced.

 

Please READ the post before you make personal attacks people, unless of course personal attacks are your only argument. No one said I was arrested or fined.

 

Some people (not me) have said, on this board, that drugs were "planted" on them in Jamaica, I'm not sure I believe that, but they certainly try to push them on you very aggressively.

 

The searching and arresting of passengers had NOTHING to do with preventing import to the US, it has everything to do with making money, and is not done in any other port I know of. In fact, in the years I spent as an Interpol rep, Jamaica was one of the countries that refused to assist in drug interdiction efforts. The government there IS part of the problem.

[zippnby]

We have traveled to Jamaica several times last time was with our three kids. It is a very beautiful isalnd, but a very poor country. Theer has been increasing civil unrest because a huge election is comng up and basically the results are make or break for many Jamaicians. I agree with my fellow posters, you take risks when you go to areas like these. But you have to be smart about your surroundings this goes for whether your in Jamaica, London, or your town USA.

 

However, to expect the cruise industry to not dock in Jamiaca is rediculous. It is a very beutiful island with alot to offer. Unfortunely, you have to chuck this up to a life lesson. If you choose to let one incident scare you, you might as well lock your windows & doors and pull the shades and never come out of your house, because these things happen all over the world.

[98Charlie]

This has become very frustrating. I apologize for what is about to come. I am trying to express myself in a positive way and a way that EVERYONE can understand.

 

Please hear me out: I DON'T CARE if the cruise ships sail to JAMAICA, Iraq, Iran, North Korea, wherever. I don't care.

 

What I care about is that WHERE EVER THEY GO.....THEY NEED TO DEVULGE ALL SAFETY INFORMATION TO THE PASSENGERS SO THEY CAN MAKE AN INFORMED DECISION!!!!!!

 

Those of you who want to go to Jamaica....Go...Go 1,000 times. You are all adults and know the dangers of Jamaica. Quit hittimg me up about trying to keep you from going. I DON'T CARE IF ANYONE GOES TO JAMAICA.

 

As far as the stats go. I posted stats about Jamaica that I receievd from reliable sources. They were posted to bring to light the situation that EXIST in Jamaica. They are the MURDER CAPITAL OF THE WORLD (I don't care if it is the tourist or locals that are being MURDERED. IT IS STILL CONSIDERED MURDER. It tells you what type of people are on the island. IT TELLS THE DESPERATION OF THESE PEOPLE. IT TELLS THE LACK OF CONTROL THAT THE GOVERNMENT HAS.

 

I KNOW THERE IS SEVERAL THOUSAND WONDERFUL JAMAICANS. I wish I could help them all. Our tour guide and bus driver were wonderful Jamaicans, THAT IS WHY I PAID BOTH OF THEM A WEEKS PAY BEFORE WE LEFT THEM AFTER WE WERE ROBBED. MY WONDERFUL KIDS HUGGED THEM AND CRIED WITH THEM AFTER WE WERE ROBBED. THERE ARE WONDERFUL JAMAICANS ON THE ISLAND. ALL JAMAICANS ARE NOT BAD AND EVIL.

 

Talk all the crap about me that you want. Say that I am ignorant or whatever you want. I DON'T CARE ABOUT ANYTHING...EXCEPT GETTING THIS STORY OUT...IN AN ATTEMPT TO WARN ANY OTHER TRAVELERS WHO ARE LIKE ME AND MY FAMILY. TRAVELERS DESERVE TO KNOW AND IT IS OBVIOUS THAT THE CRUISE LINES ARE NOT GOING TO SAY ANYTHING AND BY SOME OF YOUR COMMENTS IT IS NOT THEIR RESPONISBILITY...WELL THEN I OFFICIALLY CLAIM IT " I PERSONALLY DECLARE IT MY RESPONSIBILITY" !!!!!

 

 

I ACKNOWLEDGE THAT CRIME DOES HAPPEN EVERYWHERE. Crime is more prevelant in certain areas. Crime is more likely to happen in certain areas.

 

IN MY OPINION, CARNIVAL IS RESPONSIBLE: In THEIR shore excursion, THEY claim that the tours are guaranteed SAFE and are EXTENSIVELY researched. The AREA OF OUR TOUR was named the MURDER CAPITAL OF JAMAICA with the highest numbers of murders year-to-date (2007). There were reports of increasingly high ROBBERY AND RAPE CRIMES. The JAMAICAN CRUISE SHIP ADVISORY BOARD declared the area a "High Crime" area and recommened extra police security in the area. Remember that was the CRUISE SHIP Advisory Board...Do you think they advised the CRUISE LINES about this information? If Carnival "Extensively" researched the tour, do you think they could find out the same things I did? If they did, do you think they should have warned us? Do you think they should have sent children, elderly and handi-caped people on that tour? If they did know all of that and sent us anyway...Are they responsible? If they did not extensively research the tour, but claimed to have, are they responsible? I say yes.

 

I hope I made myself VERY CLEAR, but just in case I did not...Please let me know on what is not clear and I will try to explain it better.

 

I do not mean to upset or degrade anyone on this site and I DO APPRECIATE EVERYONE'S HONEST OPINIONS, WHETHER THEY ARE LIKE MINE OR NOT.

 

Thansks for reading and I hope to see more opinions and suggestions.

 

Just one item I'd like to throw into this mix. Most cruiselines we've been on, and I believe Carnival is one of them, subcontracts ship shore excursions out to another company.

 

Don't know where the subcontractor's liability is in all of the mix but seems to me that those that hve a problem with an excursion need to go to the company who contracted that excursion and if that company is under a subcontract to Carnival then both companies are on the line for this one.

 

Dianne

[lornadoons]

.... ding, ding, ding, ding... ROUND 2! :eek:

[Hedocple]

.... ding, ding, ding, ding... ROUND 2! :eek:

 

Only round 2 ?!?!? :eek:

[Peddler&Tass]

There is currently no specific travel warning, though there probably should be

 

I believe there is...

 

 

Travel Advisory: Jamaica

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Issued July 27, 2007 UTC

 

 

U.S. Embassy Kingston released the following Warden Message on July 27:

 

The general election in Jamaica has been called for August 27, 2007. As the election approaches, media have reported increased levels of politically motivated violence. As a result, the U.S. Embassy advises that the public exercise particular vigilance in anticipating and addressing these issues.

 

* Learn where areas of congestion may occur. Be alert to news and radio announcements of areas of particular congestion, plan to avoid such areas as much as possible, and exercise caution if within the vicinity of any demonstrations. Avoid large crowds and gatherings whenever possible.

 

* Expect heavier traffic than usual throughout the island on election day.

 

* Advise any personnel/visitors planning to travel to/through/from Jamaica that the general election has been called for August 27.

 

* Always drive with your vehicle windows up and doors locked.

 

* Avoid wearing orange, green or yellow clothing during the period leading up to the election and on election day. These colors are politically significant and may incite reactions by others.

 

American citizens in Jamaica who require emergency assistance can contact the Embassy at (876) 702-6000. Additional information is available in the Consular Information Sheet for Jamaica at http://travel.state.gov

[standby 06.30]

Please READ the post before you make personal attacks people, unless of course personal attacks are your only argument. No one said I was arrested or fined.

 

Some people (not me) have said, on this board, that drugs were "planted" on them in Jamaica, I'm not sure I believe that, but they certainly try to push them on you very aggressively.

 

The searching and arresting of passengers had NOTHING to do with preventing import to the US, it has everything to do with making money, and is not done in any other port I know of. In fact, in the years I spent as an Interpol rep, Jamaica was one of the countries that refused to assist in drug interdiction efforts. The government there IS part of the problem.

I think you are right to doubt the it was planted on me guv line, also, having an aquaintance in ocho, who is a narc detective, the searching is a method of trying to stop other passengers buying, also in Casablanca I was searched for drugs as were others, also kiff pushers were very common, pushers will not exist if there are no customers, you are probably right that the goverment has a part to play, look at afganistan, under taliban control, the cultivation and export of heroin dropped dramatically, now it huge again,regards

[98Charlie]

However, to expect the cruise industry to not dock in Jamiaca is rediculous. It is a very beutiful island with alot to offer. Unfortunely, you have to chuck this up to a life lesson. If you choose to let one incident scare you, you might as well lock your windows & doors and pull the shades and never come out of your house, because these things happen all over the world.

 

To expect cruiselines not to dock there is crazy when you consider how many millions of dollars the cruise lines have put into these Caribbean ports.

 

You don't, for a minute, think that the people of these islands built these expensive piers, do you?

 

Once that pier is built the cruise lines want their money back. Ship sponsored stores is one way, excursion kick back is another.

 

I'm amazed at how much research some of our CC members do about what hotel they are going to book for pre-cruise or post cruise in the US. They want to know if the area is safe for travel, da, da, da. Yet they will get on the ship and book an excursion with no knowledge of how safe that area is, thinkihg that the cruise ship will be liable if anything happens.

 

If you get mugged while you stay at a Holiday Inn in Miami, is Holiday Inn responsible for your mugging? If you dine in a 5-star restaurant here in the states and get robbed while you are there, is the retaurant liable?

 

Why is a cruiseline any different? The cruiseline only takes you to the ports. As a traveler, IMHO, it's up to you to decide what is safe for you and not.

 

Still can't see why a cruiseline is responsible for what happened in Jamaica, any more than I think the City of Hilliard is responsible for the kids who broke the rear view mrror on my husband's car a couple of years ago when the car was parked out on the street.

 

Dianne

[Moondawgie]

Don't think the cruiselines will not pull out of Jamaica. They have discontinued stopping in St. Croix, Port Au Prince and Caracas due to problems with crime. It can happen.

 

KWilliams, I am truly sorry your family had to go through this ... it is obvious that you feel you MUST do something. In my opinion, though, I have a difficult time giving all the blame to Carnival ... I believe this incident was beyond their or the tour company's control ... unfortunately.

[Houtx1559]

I think you are right to doubt the it was planted on me guv line, also, having an aquaintance in ocho, who is a narc detective, the searching is a method of trying to stop other passengers buying, also in Casablanca I was searched for drugs as were others, also kiff pushers were very common, pushers will not exist if there are no customers, you are probably right that the goverment has a part to play, look at afganistan, under taliban control, the cultivation and export of heroin dropped dramatically, now it huge again,regards

 

I would hope your right about that, but there just seems to be way too much "cooperation" between dealers and security in some areas.

 

You happen to know if there is still a pub in London (can't remember the name) where all the Constables go? My New Scotland Yard Interpol contact took me there once some years ago:D

[bunting]

Please READ the post before you make personal attacks people, unless of course personal attacks are your only argument. No one said I was arrested or fined.

 

Some people (not me) have said, on this board, that drugs were "planted" on them in Jamaica, I'm not sure I believe that, but they certainly try to push them on you very aggressively.

 

The searching and arresting of passengers had NOTHING to do with preventing import to the US, it has everything to do with making money, and is not done in any other port I know of. In fact, in the years I spent as an Interpol rep, Jamaica was one of the countries that refused to assist in drug interdiction efforts. The government there IS part of the problem.

 

Hi were you the Interpol rep in Jamaica? the reason I ask is that I have to disagree with the last part of your statement, about making money, if you were to follow the court appearances of the persons arrested for trafficking at the ports I am sure you will find that they went to trial even when they catch their own (in 2002 2 Jamaican immigration officers, Mais and Palmer were sentenced to 9 years in jail for smuggling onto ships in Ocho Rios. They were caught by Jamaican CET Investigators from Kingston).

 

Of course, I can only speak for Ocho Rios, (only visited Montego Bay once and was only off the ship within the port) but I can tell you that the Port Authority in Ochoo even went as far to build a new tender point since the one that existed was a good way for the smugglers to bypass the police checks on the pier.....the US CG recognised it as a BEST PRACTICE

 

http://homeport.uscg.mil/cgi-bin/st/portal/uscg_docs/MyCG/Editorial/20061103/BP_20Jamaica_20Secondary_20Tour_20Boat_20Dock.pdf?id=3fbe6830082353e25edc772ee520701a095895cb

 

The Jamaicans even entered into an agreement with the US in 1997 that allowed US authorities, in the form of the coast guard, to search ships within Jamaican territorial waters. Not many other countries do that, I think, let foreign law enforcement enter their waters to search vessels.

 

The main problem to me was the amount the country spent on interdiction, and the poor salaries of the law enforcement personnel, the smugglers can tempt them with very lucrative sums e.g. Mais and Palmer were likely two good examples. Of course, this is practice is not limited to Jamaica.......

 

Other searches do take place in other ports but not so publicly....