17 People robbed on Conquest Jamaica excursion

[tech]

We are going on a cruise in Nov. that includes Jamaica.

We are staying on the ship and giving Steiner our money.

 

What follows is satire resulting from reading the whole thread.

***************************************************

" I am a buff young man with a very attactive wife. I am not afraid to take her anywhere on the island armed only with my mouth and superior fighting skills.

 

If I am in a group consisting of Senior Citizens, small children and we are accosted by a gang of well armed men, I will rise to the challenge, puff my chest out and confront them.

 

I will show no fear in the face of them having a knife to the throat of a small child ( not my kid ) or a semi-automatic to the head of my young, lovely, nubile wife.

 

I am MAN and I will willingly demand that these robbers go away. I will not follow the example of the American Policeman in our midst who chooses to be quiet and comply.

 

Then after the robbers have run from my fierce words, I will then go to the newspapers, websites and say I was never afraid, the ship was not in anyway at fault, the people in the group were makng the story too dramatic...I mean it was a simple armed robbery while on a pleasure tour with tourists being threatened with death....Que Sera ! Another day in Paradise...remember part of our trip up until then showed us this beautiful island.

 

The guns...not so beautiful but yeah, L.A. has some too and the last shore tour I took with the Grips wasn't so bad. I mean, it could happen anywhere...and they only killed one guy that night.

 

As to facts and figures....Pffffff...they mean nothing...I know from my own experience that they are not correct.

 

I personally will continue to go to this country, travel the back streets with my nubile young wife in tow . We will stop in the bars, talk to the residents...for we must not appear to be impolite and imply that there is crime in their area.

 

Yes, I am MAN...I am strong...I am an accountant, barber, etc. and so I do in fact know more than the people who were robbed, work in law enforcement ...why would you doubt me ?

 

I am after all on a web forum, I can invent anything about myself, I can be a superman, who can tell...this is cyperspace...

 

I am King !

 

I may also be an idiot but I have many years to grow up, if I do not get murdered on one of my trips into the dark world of

Tony Soprano. "

[Sargent_Schultz]

Carlisle is very interesting, but in my opion not relevant, the cruise line employed a doctor, they took due care in selecting him, the cruise lines emploees did not state in the public forum, you have a choice if you are ill to use another doctor of ship, but we cannot guarantee your safety, if you use our doctor we gaurantee his ability to cure you. Prima facie, the officer of the cruise line, the cruise director, a person of knowledge experience, of that port and the industry, who must be aware of the possible problems in that area, used his knowledge to coerce passengers from non carnival agents to carnival agents, by claiming that if you use a carnival agent,( which they profit from) I as a company officer will guarantee your safety, what is a " slam dunk"? I am off to the airport, back on monday hope you miss me, regards

 

Both the doctor and the shore excursion are contractors. I think Carlisle could be quite relevant. both the doctor and the shore excursion are contractors. I would withhold judgment until all the evidence from both sides was presented.

 

Perhaps you should read the cruise contract as well? Even Carnival suggests you do proper research.

 

"(b) Carnival’s vessels visit numerous ports in a number of countries. Guests assume responsibility for their own safety and Carnival cannot guarantee Guest’s safety at any time. The United States Department of State, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and other governmental and tourist organizations regularly issue advisories and warnings to travelers and Carnival strongly recommends Guests obtain and consider such information when making travel decisions. Carnival assumes no responsibility for gathering said information. The Guest acknowledges that the cruise may be booked in a location that is susceptible to severe weather systems, including but not limited to, hurricanes, tropical storms and depressions, and that Carnival reserves the right to alter the ship’s course, ports of call, itinerary, activity and shore excursions to avoid such weather systems and insure the comfort and safety of the Guest and crew."

[Sargent_Schultz]

3. YOUR TRAVEL AGENT Any travel agent or sales agent utilized by the Guest in connection with the booking of the cruise, or this contract is solely the agent of the Guest and not Carnival.

[Sargent_Schultz]

A boycott of Jamaica is not going to happen anytime soon, but let's examine it anyway.

 

It seems a primary reason offered for a boycott is to effect change in Jamaica.

 

Change is already occurring. The existing government is a lame duck - it has scheduled elections later this month. There will be a new government elected. Why in the world would anyone call for a boycott? If successful, it would help to destabilize a new government before it had a chance. I think calling for a boycott is not only stupid, but unconscionable.

[Sargent_Schultz]

Slam Dunk

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slam_dunk

 

The slam dunk is one of the highest percentage field goals one can attempt in basketball as well as one of the most crowd-pleasing plays.

 

The phrase "slam dunk" is often used outside of basketball, usually to signify success or something that is easily accomplished or that has a high probability of success.

 

 

[Sargent_Schultz]

I have a correction to my post #698, which makes this Lethe Village Plantation heist of June 13, worse than I had thought. A Travel Agent in Austin Texas did sell us that cruise, but I have been informed by our daughter that this "shore excursion" was purchased directly from Carnival "on line"; precisely because, we thought, that we had been promised that it was safe for children. So, Carnival did have a direct involvement, let's say a financial one.

 

 

Since you purchased the shore excursion on line, I think you are going to have a hard time claiming your purchase was influenced by anything the cruise director said or didn't say.

[Sargent_Schultz]

We are going on a cruise in Nov. that includes Jamaica.

We are staying on the ship and giving Steiner our money.

 

 

Small world. I will also be on a cruise in November that stops in Jamaica and I will get off the ship.

[Uncle Pete]

Good Luck!!!!

 

2 years ago my cousin got his camera (expensive one) stolen right in front of us. We had booked the shore excursion with the cruise line....they take no responsibility and that's OK. He had to claim from his insurance company.

[SanAntoniogal]

On exactly what excursion did this robbery take place? Its important to know for those who still want to take their chances by booking excursions.

[SanAntoniogal]

On exactly what excursion did this robbery take place? Its important to know for those who still want to take their chances by booking excursions in Jamaica.

[tech]

Small world. I will also be on a cruise in November that stops in Jamaica and I will get off the ship.

 

Vaya Con Dios

[Sargent_Schultz]

Vaya Con Dios

 

I always do - whether in the USA or Jamaica. No problemo - or more appropriate, No Problem, Mon.

 

Well over a million cruise line passengers visit Jamaica every year and the number continue to increase.

 

It isn't the doom and gloom purported. Here are some recent happy tales from recent visitors:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=587674

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=600308

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=603546

 

There are many more.

[El Chief]

Re: post #735, SanAntonioGal - This was the "Lethe Village Plantation" shore excursion in Jamaica (marketed and arranged by Carnival) on June 13, 2007. Seventeen tourist were robbed and threatened by two armed "thugs" during that tour; four of the victims, that were threatened to be killed, were young children. The "thugs" shoved guns into their faces, called them "fu----- freak foreigners" and threatened to kill them, and every American on that trolley. All victims were robbed of everything, even passports, drivers licenses, credit cards, personal items, cameras, cases, cash, watches - the list goes on. But, my issue is the children. And, the fact that it was a "hate crime".

 

The story has been carried on three Television Stations, that I know of, and in at least two newspapers.

 

 

 

[El Chief]

Mi amigo jcanino, may I take a little excerpt from your post #725, that reads "let alone children". Don't you get my point? we can't "let alone children", that is the key point here. This was a "hate crime" with children victims. Two of those victims were my young granddaughters, they had loaded 38's shoved into their faces, and were threatened to be killed, they were called "freaks", they were robbed of everything they had, even their Wal-Mart back packs. They are 12 and 14 years old. Another couple had two children threatened there also, 10 and 12, their ten year old girl was subjected to exceptionally harsh treatment. She had to beg for her life; but, in the face of it all, she begged that they not hurt other people either.

[El Chief]

And, to Mr. S. Schultz, may I take a little excerpt from your post #731, which reads - "I think you are going to have a hard time claiming". Let me make this very clear, my family is not claiming anything; except, that it is "our" responsibility to warn young families about taking children to Jamaica. That's all, I have no advice for "experienced travelers", if they go to Jamaica, or not, that is their business.

 

You will see me fade from this scene, as the children are returning to school. But, you can be certain that when the vacation seasons returns, I will be here, or wherever, I can get the message carried.

[jcanino]

Mi amigo jcanino, may I take a little excerpt from your post #725, that reads "let alone children". Don't you get my point? we can't "let alone children", that is the key point here. This was a "hate crime" with children victims.

 

Here is what the previous message said that I think you misread...

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Chief

we thought, that we had been promised that it was safe for children. So, Carnival did have a direct involvement, let's say a financial one.

 

Did you or Carnival Cruise Line have any indication from past experience that this excursion was not safe for anyone, let alone children? [unquote]

 

Your big point of that message was that you were told that is was safe for children. What I was inferring to was why did it just matter about being safe for children? If they told you that it was not for children, would you have gone? If children were not there, would the ending have been different? If you want, read my quote above and leave out the words "let alone children".

[kwilliams6045]

Canino,

 

Have you seen the newspaper articles and links I have posted in reference to the murder rate, robberies and rapes for the St. James Parish area, where the tour took place?

 

Did you see the link, where the Jamaican Cruise Ship Advisory Board, had named the area a "high crime" area and requested that it have extra police security? This specifically included the Lethe Village Tour.

 

If so, what else did Carnival need to consider the tour area un-safe? Did they need a murder, rape or robbery inside the private plantation itself? If not, within what distance would be sufficient to justify calling the tour area un-safe?

 

The owner of the plantation, who showed up at the scene, was told the story of what happened. When we told her about the tractor driver's phone being thrown down and crushed, she stated " That is why he carries two phones, just for a situation like this." Canino, why would she say that? What do you think that statement implies? If she was aware of the possible dangers and had prepared the driver, do you think Carnival would have that information, if they "extensively researched" the tour?

 

If this area is as dangerous as described, and knowing that Carnival states that they "extensively research" these excursion, did they do an appropriate job? If they had the same information about the high crime here, did they make good judgement to send a group of 17 tourist into the area?

 

I await your response.

 

Thanks again, I find your responses interesting.

[jcanino]

Canino,

 

Have you seen the newspaper articles and links I have posted in reference to the murder rate, robberies and rapes for the St. James Parish area, where the tour took place?

 

Did you see the link, where the Jamaican Cruise Ship Advisory Board, had named the area a "high crime" area and requested that it have extra police security? This specifically included the Lethe Village Tour.

 

If so, what else did Carnival need to consider the tour area un-safe? Did they need a murder, rape or robbery inside the private plantation itself? If not, within what distance would be sufficient to justify calling the tour area un-safe?

 

The owner of the plantation, who showed up at the scene, was told the story of what happened. When we told her about the tractor driver's phone being thrown down and crushed, she stated " That is why he carries two phones, just for a situation like this." Canino, why would she say that? What do you think that statement implies? If she was aware of the possible dangers and had prepared the driver, do you think Carnival would have that information, if they "extensively researched" the tour?

 

If this area is as dangerous as described, and knowing that Carnival states that they "extensively research" these excursion, did they do an appropriate job? If they had the same information about the high crime here, did they make good judgement to send a group of 17 tourist into the area?

 

I await your response.

 

Thanks again, I find your responses interesting.

 

Well Williams (can I call you by just your last name since that is how you address me. My full name is at the bottom of all my posts), did you or Carnival have any reason to believe that your unfortunate incident was going to happen? My guess (since I don't know the truth and neither do you) is that they rely on the tour operator to tell them about the tour and the area. I am also going to take a good guess (probably 99% certain) that representatives from Carnival's Risk Management department took the tour before it was even offered.

 

How many of those rapes, robberies and murders were carried out on tourists? You are probably laughing your head off now saying what does that have to do with anything but it has a lot to do with your statistics. Statistics can be skewed any way someone wants to read them and interpret them especially when you are looking at individual statistics.

 

As for the what the owner's statement implied, I could make a guess just like you can. Did anyone ask the owner what was "meant" by the statement?

 

Like I said several times over, I really feel bad for all of you that were there; but I still feel that it was an isolated incident that unfortunately you were involved in.

 

I'm glad that you find my responses interesting. Go on with your life, sue whomever you think is going to reimburse you for the pain and suffering and and I will keep visiting my favorite island in the Caribbean whose people have always been very kind and friendly to me.

[kwilliams6045]

Joe,

 

You skated around the questions nicely.

 

 

Can you answer the questions?

 

By the way, are most of the trips you take to Jamaica comps? Just curious.

[standby 06.30]

I think the interesting point is if we remove the emotional side is, the duty of care to the passenger, to allow them to make an informed choice, this seems to have been enforced by the cruise directors statement, that he as I have stated before, as an officer of the company guaranteed the passengers safety if they used the tours he was selling, that in itself is a duty of care, that it was made for whatever reason, I would think it was to improve his profit motive, that it backfired is his and the companies problem, infact you could argue that this was a specific verbal contract that applied to the 17, I cannot predict how a court would respond, unlike the sarge who seems to spend all his time flip flopping from his previous statements( im getting the slang its a slam dunk) I fail to see sarge why your initial slavish response supporting the company line, I think it was you who said this was just a "simple robbery" that "ambulance chasers" think cruise lines have "deep pockets" they and the other comments are banal and have no value, unless you are a share holder or have some form of "relationship" with the cruise director?, 2yrs ago my wife and I were on a red sea cruise, rioting started because of the ferry that sank and the cartoons of mohamed, we were informed that this may escalate, and that although armed guards were on the tours, that they could not guarantee safety, the choice was ours, the ship could not return to the port we started from and we had to disembark in a militery port for our safety, that was handled in my opinion properly, regards

[kwilliams6045]

Tech,

 

I loved that...it really fits

[standby 06.30]

cannino, you may or may not be an idiot, but what inference do you take from the cruise director statement of "guaranteed safety" "safety" from what? that is a direct question to you, by your responce I will then form an answer to the question I postulated, Regards

[standby 06.30]

Tech,

 

I loved that...it really fits

We have to be very careful because Mr Canino graduated from the Colledge of Disney Knowledge, and I for one A humble dustbin man ( garbage collector) feel in "shock and awe" of a person of his qualifications, I would add in a poll of the most distrusted people in buss in the uk, and to be fair and balanced T A s did rank above second hand car salesmen, double glazing salesmen, etc regards, OH ps what color Knickers does Snow White wear?

[bunting]

Well Williams (can I call you by just your last name since that is how you address me. My full name is at the bottom of all my posts), did you or Carnival have any reason to believe that your unfortunate incident was going to happen? My guess (since I don't know the truth and neither do you) is that they rely on the tour operator to tell them about the tour and the area. I am also going to take a good guess (probably 99% certain) that representatives from Carnival's Risk Management department took the tour before it was even offered.

 

Morning everyone, the danger here is relying on the tour operator to tell them about the tour and the area......if tourism is a person or groups main livelihood e.g. is a tour operator going to honestly tell the cruise lines that there is a new danger?, and, sometimes if we live in an environment were things might happen regularly (crime) we become immune to them and some begin to accept incidents as the norm and think nothing of telling others about it....and truthfully, would they be qualified to do so...they are a tour operator after all.....and re the Risk Management taking the tour before it was even offered that´s only stage one of a risk assessment, it needs constanting monitoring, constant reassessment including a regular threat/risk analysis and that really should be a cruise line obligation if they are going to sell the cruises on behalf of the tour operator, push it onboard during talks (apparently this case) and display the information about cruise line excursion safety and recommendations concerning their use on the ICCL/CLIA website. I mean, and I am not sure here, let´s say the tour began to be sold a number, say ten years ago, does that mean no one went back to check it from Risk Management???

 

the risk we, the posters, have here is to begin to question our reasons, and the backgrounds and reasons of other people for posting here...we all have our opinions and are entitled to post them (while respecting others), I dont think anyone wants to berate others or Jamaica but I think the orginal idea of the main posters was to warn people and let them make their own decisions. I have mine. I sailed Ochi for many years, never really visited outside the fence in 9 years except 3 times (work reasons another story), knew many many good people, put my wellbeing in the hands of a very few of those same people (dont do that very often) but whenever I arrived the first thing I ask was what was going on locally (and then I found other sources to verify the information)....Been a while since I cruised (though not too long) but my question is safety and security included in a section on the evaluations? (the more sources of feedback the better).... (many comments came to RCI in 90s about harassment in Ochi and they and Carnival used those feedbacks to move people (harassers) out of the Bus and taxi mustering points just inside the main gate).....

 

Standby hope you and the good lady enjoyed Barcelona........

[Sargent_Schultz]

Re: post #735, SanAntonioGal - This was the "Lethe Village Plantation" shore excursion in Jamaica (marketed and arranged by Carnival) on June 13, 2007. Seventeen tourist were robbed and threatened by two armed "thugs" during that tour; four of the victims, that were threatened to be killed, were young children. The "thugs" shoved guns into their faces, called them "fu----- freak foreigners" and threatened to kill them, and every American on that trolley. All victims were robbed of everything, even passports, drivers licenses, credit cards, personal items, cameras, cases, cash, watches - the list goes on. But, my issue is the children. And, the fact that it was a "hate crime".

 

The story has been carried on three Television Stations, that I know of, and in at least two newspapers.

 

 

Some details that seem to have been omitted - much of the stolen property was recovered and one of the two robbers was shot and killed by police, who were aided by locals.

 

I still see it as a robbery - not a "hate crime".