Canadian Next Top Model attacked in St. Lucia

[98Charlie]

I have no doubt the island is very beautiful. And I am not too worried about the safety issue, I think that would be ok, I was more concerned about seeing dead or injured dogs at the side of the roads. That would definately put a damper on the tour. And as I stated earlier I know it would be upsetting for others in my group. Is it one of those places where the dogs run loose and are at the mercy of the traffic?

 

Been to St. Lucia 3 times. One tour and twice just out on our own. Never saw any dead animals (except in the supermarket:rolleyes: ).

 

It is truely a beautiful island and there are areas that I/we would not venture in to. Same goes for every place we visit whether it is in the Caribbean, the US, Europe, wherever.

 

Charlie

[woodofpine]

Like the prior poster, I've been to St. Lucia three times. St. Lucia's people are friendly but the peddlers can be pushy. I've not experienced a crime there and I don't PERSONALLY know anyone that has. I'm sure if I sought out a crime victim to champion on the internet I could find one... In the same way that there are foreign tourist crime victims from my community as well as Love to Dream's community.

 

St. Lucia has a relatively high population in that the population resides in densely populated areas, and the island is relatively poor - like most of the Caribbean. Due to population density and poverty is has the same security issues as similar locations on any continent. St. Lucia requires the same caution as MOST (if not all) places with this situation - including the USA, the far east, Africa, etc.; places that also have active tourist boards promoting lovely locations.

 

Lovetodream has been to SL once, and dispite her obsession, she was not a crime victim. She was a discontented visitor that has chosen to champion a concern (or paranoia) that is not validated by her own experience - objectively stated. One can find crime victims of any location on the internet seeking solace. Simply finding stuff on the internet and having been to a place (and not enjoyed it) doesn't make one credible. Lovetodream is not a crime victim, but she definately appears to have an axe to grind. It is an anti-St. Lucia agenda based on attitude rather than experience.

 

This post may (or may not) get yanked, but given the ongoing post activity involved it needs to be said.

[Real Island Boy]

I was quite satisfied with the reply posted by lovetodream. Indeed, I was happy that she is genuinely interested in socio-economic and geo-political issues. I do hope hope that she visits in May as planned. I just wish her to understand that the written word does have power and I felt that many of her statements tended to exaggerate some of our problems.

 

The comment about the Middle East was just to state that this is where you would have to go to experience broad negative sentiments about the Western World. The presence of US soldiers there does not help improve these sentiments, as I am sure that the majority of Americans would prefer to have their sons returned home. This just underscores some of the similar problems that we face in our democracies - TRUTH, our governments scarcely ever do want we really want them to do for us. For our part (in the Caribbean), we are frustrated by governments that do not have the willpower and sometimes the resources to tackle the drug and crime problem seriously.

 

I also wish that more visitors would actually visit the villages and rural communities as lovetodream did. That would certainly help visitors appreciate their travels a little more.

Though I must say that the comparisons to places like Chad and Sierra Leone is REALLY stretching it and quite frankly unfair. I must admit that the authorities can be slow at properly disposing dead dogs on the roads but it is not that common to even see a dead dog on the roads here.

 

I like to think of solutions to problems. I think the degree of lovetodream's reaction to her visit may have a lot to do with the prior expectations that she may have had. If visitors are better informed by the agents selling packages and tours, they will come with better adjusted expectations

 

I would be interested to learn more about the charitable visit being planned by lovetodream. It would be interesting to meet lovetodream in May. May is also the month of the world renown St. Lucia Jazz Festival. http://stluciajazz.org/

[lesharona]

Very well put, and I appreciate your comments. My nece wants to go ziplining any recommendations?

[Real Island Boy]

If you are interested in zip-lining in St. Lucia or maybe just ride the cable cars like the more faint of heart like myself, here is a link you could check out:

http://www.rfat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2&Itemid=4

 

I know of another such adventure in Dennery which is on the east coast of the island, except I cannot remember the name. I'll look it up and post some info later.

[lovetocruise99]

Is this a common site at the side of the roads? We are scheduled to go there this fall. My niece is a real dog lover and I know seeing this would be very upsetting. The more I read about St Lucia the more I think we will book a boat tour while we are there.

 

If you want to see the most important things but don't want to go by car, do what we did and book a boat/land tour. We went with Peter the Great and had a good time. Here is a full review of our day along with some photos. We're going back to St Lucia in September and can't decide what to do this time around. Peter's tour is a full day and my husband and child don't particularly like full day tours no matter what we're doing. We didn't see any dogs like that (thank goodness!) or I probably wouldn't be going back either.

 

http://familytravelfun.com/stluciatours.html

[lovetodream]

Like the prior poster, I've been to St. Lucia three times. St. Lucia's people are friendly but the peddlers can be pushy. I've not experienced a crime there and I don't PERSONALLY know anyone that has. I'm sure if I sought out a crime victim to champion on the internet I could find one... In the same way that there are foreign tourist crime victims from my community as well as Love to Dream's community.

 

St. Lucia has a relatively high population in that the population resides in densely populated areas, and the island is relatively poor - like most of the Caribbean. Due to population density and poverty is has the same security issues as similar locations on any continent. St. Lucia requires the same caution as MOST (if not all) places with this situation - including the USA, the far east, Africa, etc.; places that also have active tourist boards promoting lovely locations.

 

Lovetodream has been to SL once, and dispite her obsession, she was not a crime victim. She was a discontented visitor that has chosen to champion a concern (or paranoia) that is not validated by her own experience - objectively stated. One can find crime victims of any location on the internet seeking solace. Simply finding stuff on the internet and having been to a place (and not enjoyed it) doesn't make one credible. Lovetodream is not a crime victim, but she definately appears to have an axe to grind. It is an anti-St. Lucia agenda based on attitude rather than experience.

 

This post may (or may not) get yanked, but given the ongoing post activity involved it needs to be said.

 

 

 

I was not going to respond to this post again because I really do not have an axe-to-grind, nor am I looking for sympaticos with whom I can drum up trumped up claims against St. Lucia, nor am I obsessed, etc. etc.

 

Real Island Boy~~thank you for your thoughtful comments. I appreciate your understanding, I really do. You sound like a sensitive and compassionate person...just like many of the St. Lucians who I have known during my life and the ones I met during my travels.

 

Woodofpine~~I feel sorry for you, I really do. Instead of attempting to empathize with people who see the world (well, one country) differently than you do, all you see fit is to discredit me, make disparaging remarks about my motives and insult me. How unfortunate. I understand though, I really do. I totally know where you are coming from.

 

You don't really know what my experiences were in St. Lucia...you'd really feel foolish if you did, I'm sure of it. Because I said that I was not a victim of crime, does not mean that 1) someone in my party was a victim of crime, 2) I witnessed a crime, 3) I diverted crime from happening to me or someone else, 4) a St. Lucian or another tourist intercepted and prevented crime from happening to me or someone in my party, etc, etc The list could go on & on, could it not?

 

You need to think a bit more before you respond...just as you're warning me to do the same ;) ;) ;) You need to think.

 

Why don't you join the group traveling to St. Lucia in May '08 instead of simply judging people whose experiences of the island were different than yours? Going with people who view the island through a different set of glasses (because they have lived there OR they have loved ones currently living there OR they have fallen victim to crime and they wish to make a positive inpact, etc) MIGHT change your perceptions about others who think and feel differently than you do.

 

Also, why do you think this post will get pulled? Has anyone said anything that is so out-of-line?

[lovetodream]

No where did I state that I was "disgruntled" or a "disgruntled visitor" to St. Lucia. Go ahead and read my TripAdvisor post.

 

While I am not comfortable sharing out here what exactly happened in St. Lucia, I can reassure you that I met many wonderful people, ate some great food, saw some beautiful scenery, etc etc and I did NOT return home a DISCONTENTED VISITOR.

 

I DID however return home as a heavy-hearted and saddened visitor. And quite a bit poor-er...the island and the entire trip was VERY expensive, even by Caribbean standards.

 

You know...as I am typing this, I just vividly recalled the MAJOR experience that changed my eyes during my visit (and there were a few minor incidents, too) and I am sooooo angry right now. I am angry that you have so self-righteously judged me & my experience, of which you know next to nothing, but I won't succumb to my outrage.

 

Buono viaggio!

[AllenF]

Ok Lovetodream we get it you had a bad experience on St Lucia and even though you were not going to reply again (which you did twice) to warn us all how dangerous it can be off the beaten path can be there (or any island or any country for that fact) the truth is out of thousands of tourist only a very small percentage experience voilent crime in St Lucia and that is a fact also. You have said what you felt you needed to ok I read it and I am now tired of reading it over and over. Because you see I know it can be dangerous anywhere at anytime in this world wether I am at home or on vacation that is also just a fact of the times we live in. So thank you for your concern and I am now glad you have an awareness that perhaps you should always try to be careful and vigilent where ever you are.

[lovetodream]

Ok Lovetodream we get it you had a bad experience on St Lucia and even though you were not going to reply again (which you did twice) to warn us all how dangerous it can be off the beaten path can be there (or any island or any country for that fact) the truth is out of thousands of tourist only a very small percentage experience voilent crime in St Lucia and that is a fact also. You have said what you felt you needed to ok I read it and I am now tired of reading it over and over. Because you see I know it can be dangerous anywhere at anytime in this world wether I am at home or on vacation that is also just a fact of the times we live in. So thank you for your concern and I am now glad you have an awareness that perhaps you should always try to be careful and vigilent where ever you are.

 

Dear AllenF,

I didn't respond about the safekeeping of all tourists, blah, blah, blah, blah...I think people are informed well enough about that. Again, people will make their own choices...which is what makes the world go 'round, isn't it?

 

I was responding because woodofpine all but called me a liar.

 

BTW-Always had the awareness, DF but thanks for your concern ;) ;) ;)

 

Toni

 

P.S. In all due respect, if you're tired of "reading" about it, why not just SKIP the post? Oh, meant to post above...I glanced at your profile earlier and your wife or significant other is very pretty. You're a fortunate man in that respect. Take care!

[Compass Rose]

This entire thread was an extremely good read, thank you very much. All I can say is that after having just cruised there this past week with only about a 6 hour stay at most, I hope that there is another side to this beautiful island. The port is in a very unsavory part of town. Neither myself nor my husband felt safe there, and as we leisurely strolled around the area just outside of the port, we were approached no less than 5 times in about 15 minutes for handouts....in specific amounts.....like $5 or $10 dollars........we didn't like it. Our personal experience is that we felt very unsafe around the port area and just didn't like it. Our tour outside the port consisted of a few stops to local vendors who wanted to sell their stuff, a visit to a batik factory for about a 30 second tour of how to make batik, and a visit to a rum factory to view 3 bottles of various stages of ingredients before rum became rum. I know the tour was our own choice, but we don't think we have to visit St. Lucia again. But, I am sure I must be wrong.

[sapper1]

This entire thread was an extremely good read, thank you very much. All I can say is that after having just cruised there this past week with only about a 6 hour stay at most, I hope that there is another side to this beautiful island. The port is in a very unsavory part of town. Neither myself nor my husband felt safe there, and as we leisurely strolled around the area just outside of the port, we were approached no less than 5 times in about 15 minutes for handouts....in specific amounts.....like $5 or $10 dollars........we didn't like it. Our personal experience is that we felt very unsafe around the port area and just didn't like it. Our tour outside the port consisted of a few stops to local vendors who wanted to sell their stuff, a visit to a batik factory for about a 30 second tour of how to make batik, and a visit to a rum factory to view 3 bottles of various stages of ingredients before rum became rum. I know the tour was our own choice, but we don't think we have to visit St. Lucia again. But, I am sure I must be wrong.

 

Having been on the same cruise and the same tour, your assessment just about sums it up. I agree completely. It is such a shame because St. Lucia is such a beautiful island. After our tour was completed we tried to walk down the street for a while but were forced to return to the safety of the ship because people on the street were very aggressive and would not leave us alone. I was terrified.

[98Charlie]

This entire thread was an extremely good read, thank you very much. All I can say is that after having just cruised there this past week with only about a 6 hour stay at most, I hope that there is another side to this beautiful island. The port is in a very unsavory part of town. Neither myself nor my husband felt safe there, and as we leisurely strolled around the area just outside of the port, we were approached no less than 5 times in about 15 minutes for handouts....in specific amounts.....like $5 or $10 dollars........we didn't like it. Our personal experience is that we felt very unsafe around the port area and just didn't like it. Our tour outside the port consisted of a few stops to local vendors who wanted to sell their stuff, a visit to a batik factory for about a 30 second tour of how to make batik, and a visit to a rum factory to view 3 bottles of various stages of ingredients before rum became rum. I know the tour was our own choice, but we don't think we have to visit St. Lucia again. But, I am sure I must be wrong.

 

Having been on the same cruise and the same tour, your assessment just about sums it up. I agree completely. It is such a shame because St. Lucia is such a beautiful island. After our tour was completed we tried to walk down the street for a while but were forced to return to the safety of the ship because people on the street were very aggressive and would not leave us alone. I was terrified.

 

Amazingly enough, we have been to St. Lucia 3 times and never had anyone beg. We have docked twice on the side of the bay where the cargo containers are located and once on the other side. We have walked to the downtown area, shopped the flea market, visited a local bakery, been to the grocery store (love visiting those in other countries to see the differences), and stopped for a drink at a local pool hall (the only tourists in the palce). Cabbies wanting to sell us a tour have been the only people to approach us.

 

On one occasion we must have taken the same tour as Compass Rose. It stopped at a roadside flea market with not much different than every other flea market in St. Lucia (or the Caribbean for that matter). But the view from the area was spectacular! Got some nice photos of the bay with our ship docked.

 

Went to the Batik Factory where the demo lasted about 5 minutes and we shopped for maybe ½ hour. DW found 2 shirts for grandkids on sale for $10 each.

 

Went to the rum factory that was dissapointing. The tour was short and the rums we tasted in a large outdoor tasting area were not very good.

 

Charlie

[woodofpine]

Was that the ghost of Rudyard Kipling? Or was it real? ;) :D ;)

[ncdachsiemom]

I must say, my tour with COSOL was awesome. We elected not to take a ships tour, because they are BORING!!! COSOL has several vans, and we felt perfectly safe with him. The vans travel together; in fact, one of the drivers was an ex-policeman from Charlotte, NC. St Lucia is a beautiful island, and it would be a shame for tourists not to get off the ships to see it. We did not venture into the city to shop as we were on our tour all day. Having visited almost all of the islands, the only one that ever made me feel uncomfortable was Jamaica with the constant drug pushing.

 

Linda

[woodofpine]

St. Lucia has population density and income that translates into poverty. Poverty translates into crime risk (albeit lower IMHO than comparable zones in the USA). Downtown Castries away from the port requires heightened caution if travelling on ones own. There is some over persistant souvenir sales at Reduit Beach and the St. Lucian Rastafarian population may offer drugs... (only happened to me once in three visits, at the beach)

 

Touristically, if one were to call the port area adjacent Ocho Rios a 10 for encounter hassles and the interior of the Smithsonian Institute a 0 then I'd call St. Lucia (including Reduit) somewhere in the 5-6 range.

 

But 2/3s or more of the island is public conservation zone (hence the density of population elsewhere), the island is gorgeous. There are excellent guides available (which itself speaks well of the St. Lucian public) to show you the place and its people.

 

During my visits I've wasted a day at the beach (Reduit - nice beach, but the island offers so much more), once to the less visited northeast coast for horseback riding (gorgeous and highly memorable) with some added car touring, and once all over the west coast with Herod Stanislas (highly recommend as a guide) most recently 11/07.

 

As a CC poster/reader, you read a few posts and you evaluate the poster as well as the island commented on. I'm comfortable most places. Obviously, St. Lucia isn't for everyone, but you can find people that will dis any particular island in the Caribbean. It's might not be a good place for shrill, condescending, or patronizing travelors. On the otherhand, the late George Harrison was fond of the place.

 

St. Lucia definately warrants more caution than Aruba or Grand Cayman and less than Jamaica; in general, maybe slightly more than Charlotte Amalie, St. Thomas (maybe the same). St. Lucia should be visited. Staying on the ship would be a waste.

[zillabe]

Wow, what an interesting read. I have never been to St. Lucia but I have heard it is beautiful. I don't understand why you feel the need to bash Detroit. I believe you stated before that you live in Belleville. Although I don't believe Detroit is the greatest place on earth you don't exactly live downtown...you are about an hour away. Seems like your not happy wherever you are living/going. I do feel that the cruise boards can be "rude" sometimes I usually just choose not to post. I for sure wouldn't let a cruise board make me stop cruising.

 

I tried to read what happened to you in st. lucia but the link didn't work. I only hope that the places you choose to visit from now on are more to your liking and much more safe.

[BeagleOne]

Just my $0.02: I was in St. Lucia about four weeks ago. My friend and I (both female) walked from one side of the port to the other, back again, with a shortcut through the fishing dock, and went to the public markets, with no problems whatsoever. A simple "no, thank you" to people who offered us things was accepted with good grace and no hassle.

 

We later did a tour and saw no dead or injured dogs, and as a shelter/rescue veterinarian who went back to school at 36 to become a vet after living for seven years on a Pacific island with a horrible stray problem, I am always, always on the lookout for them, and I am very good at spotting them.

 

I would just say that there are some charities, based both in the U.S. and in other countries, who send volunteer vets to underserved areas to do free spay/neuter clinics and try to help curb the overpopulation problem. I also saw donation boxes, to which I always contributed, for local humane societies on several of the islands I visited on this most recent cruise.

 

If anyone reading or posting on this thread is interested in helping with the animal overpopulation problem in places that do not enjoy the same level of veterinary care that most of the U.S. does, I urge you to do some research and consider contributing to one of those charities. I have done several such trips myself (none to St. Lucia) and the people have always been gracious and grateful for the help.

[NoNoNanette]

BeagleOne:

 

As an animal lover, your post literally brought tears to my eyes. How sweet. (My husband and I are constantly adopting strays and neutering/spaying them) :(

 

You've got a good heart, honey!

[BeagleOne]

Thanks NoNoNanette! I saw from one of your other posts that you are in the NoLA area. The bigger dog in my avatar is a Katrina rescue from Gulfport, where I spent a week in 10/05 after the storm. Her name is Beignet.

[NoNoNanette]

THANKS for helping us out after Katrina, honey. We had/have a rough way to go! :)

 

(Katrina's eye went right over us. We were without power for 19 days and lost30+ acres of timber.... we were the lucky ones!) ;)

[Dperkins125]

I as well did the COSOL tour and felt very safe. Actually, out of all 6 islands of the Southern Carribean tour, St Lucia was my favorite and COSOL and his group will surely take care of you. :)

 

I hope everyone reading will do their own research and form a decision on their own if deciding on whether or not to visit this beautiful island.

[cluelyss18]

I as well did the COSOL tour and felt very safe. Actually, out of all 6 islands of the Southern Carribean tour, St Lucia was my favorite and COSOL and his group will surely take care of you. :)

 

I hope everyone reading will do their own research and form a decision on their own if deciding on whether or not to visit this beautiful island.

 

I'm sitting here laughing because your post brought this topic to the top of the boards. I started at the beginning getting highly annoyed with some posters regarding 'crime'.

 

No idea if these people are still around or not..but I would only have one thing to say. CRIME HAPPENS EVERYWHERE. On any given day the crime rate is 'higher' in one place than it was yesterday and the next day it will be lower. I work in law enforcement and see my share. I would hope that most tourists would use their common sense and realize that just because they are in 'paradise', that does not mean they are not subject to crime. I would hope they would all use their heads and act as they would on any other day.

In fact, I am more aware of my surroundings when on vacation...:rolleyes:

[hueyjudy]

I am not afraid of much but I am also aware that people tend to be quite relaxed when they're travelling, especially coming into port on a cruise ... so my advice to everyone, alarmist or cheerleader, is to pay close attention to everything all the time. If you have 3 pina coladas for lunch, pay attention when you're walking on streets full of people. Realize that you might be seen as a rich dude by people who have little, so be alert and aware. That will go a long way towards reducing "personal crimes".

[Goldeye]

I visited St. Lucia on a cruise last Tuesday and walking from the port into town was one of the most uncomfortable experiences I have had in the Caribbean or anywhere else for that matter. I was walking with my wife and two friends at the time. We were continuously approached by overly-aggressive taxi/tour drivers and panhandlers, two in particular who were clearly high, one who was cracked out. I know this because shortly after we were approached, a local came up to us to tell us not to give him any money because of this. Two police officers were about 30 feet away and seemed to ignore this. Interestingly, shortly before the crackhead experience, a clearly local business lady approached and warned us to be very careful. She was was proud of her Island, told us it was a beautiful place, which it was, and to take lots of pictures and directed us to a safe business area, Manoal Street I believe. During our conversation, she warned us again 3-4 times to be very careful. Manoal Street is where we were approached by the crack dude. I've travelled quite a bit through the Caribbean/Mexico/Central America and have never felt as threatened anywhere else as I have here. We could not walk 1/4 of a block without being approached by aggressive individuals. After this, it was straight to the water taxi and back to port. Back at the port, we hired a taxi in the secure area and took a tour up to the volcano. Wonderful driver, very scenic tour but I would not walk anywhere in Castries again and suggest anyone travelling here to be very wary. This city would not be a place I will visit again.