NCL sued over restaurants' booking non-avaiability

[cruisePRN]

I sailed on NCL last Sept and couldn't get into a non premium restaurant without a 2 hour wait. I think NCL is definatly guilty of false advertising and should revise it's advertisments. Do I think a law suit is necessary, Well it will open some eyes but i doubt the plaintiff will win an award.

[KarmaElectra]

This is simply amazing. (And I say that while shaking my head in disgust.)

[tchix]

The Federal Court will not look to Florida law with respect to procedural matters.

 

Actually, it will. Where there is no direct conflict with federal procedural law, and the law is not "merely procedural" (such as the posting of a bond to cover potential attorney's fees and other litigation costs of the other party) and where not applying the rule will encourage people to sue in the federal court or the state court (forum shopping), the federal court will apply Florida state law, even if it is somewhat procedural. (See Cohen v. Beneficial Indus. (addressing this specific issue of state law requiring the posting of a bond), and Hannah v Plumer (discussing the no direct conflict, outcome determinative, and forum shopping aspects of this rule).

 

As far as what happens, Cuizer2 is right, NCL has 20 days to Answer (file a pleading saying whether they admit or deny the statements in the Complaint). alternattively they can (and probably will) file a Motion to Dismiss, which basically says- even if everything that Plaintiff says is true, legally she has no leg to stand on. (Hard to win). If that's denied, then there will be discovery, then summary judgment, plus motions for and against class certification (not necessarily in that order), then potentially a trial and appeals. The court will also probably press for mediation or some other kind of alternative dispute resolution/settlement talks....

 

Cuizer1 are you from CA? I ask only because that's the only place I've ever filed a demurrer instead of a motion to dismiss!

[Cuizer2]

I sailed on NCL last Sept and couldn't get into a non premium restaurant without a 2 hour wait. I think NCL is definatly guilty of false advertising and should revise it's advertisments. Do I think a law suit is necessary, Well it will open some eyes but i doubt the plaintiff will win an award.

 

Wow, I must be living right. The most I have ever waited was five minutes because I got there before the restaurant opened and there was already a line. Obviously since all the tables were open the line moved quickly.

 

The other times I ran into a line I changed restaurants or I looked for something in the store and then when back to the same restaurant (since I realized that line was caused by the show just getting out).

 

Okay, I do recall waiting longer once, but that was because the hostess was also the waitress (or the waitress was also the hostess) and I had to wait for her to get to me. However, there were open tables and I was second in line (first after the other couple gave up).

 

Nonetheless, I don't think I would jump to an allegation of false advertising. Most of the written material I have seen does include a disclaimer about "prime time".

[Cuizer2]

Cuizer1 are you from CA? I ask only because that's the only place I've ever filed a demurrer instead of a motion to dismiss!

 

You know, I've never seen a post from Cuizer1. But we will not go into how I ended up with this screen name here. If you look you'll see that I claim to be in Los Angeles. Despite rumors to the contrary, Los Angeles is still in California. So a direct answer to your question is - yes.

[tchix]

You know, I've never seen a post from Cuizer1. But we will not go into how I ended up with this screen name here. If you look you'll see that I claim to be in Los Angeles. Despite rumors to the contrary, Los Angeles is still in California. So a direct answer to your question is - yes.

 

Clearly my attention to detail is poor! I love L.A., especially Central Civil West...

[isles1]

Legal arguments and analysis aside: I trust that anyone who has denounced the possible basis for the lawsuit here and by some coincidence turns out to be a member of the Plaintiff's class (if it were certified and went to judgment or settlement) would not file a claim? :D

[triplej2484]

This is ridiculous. When I worked on the Hawai'i as a crew member classified as "staff" we were able to go to public restaurants and bars. We never had a problem getting into Jasmine Garden or Cagney's (the two most popular on the ship). Peak time is different of course, and we often went around 8. You need to plan accordingly and aim for off peak and you shouldn't have a problem. Or if you want peak hours, that reservation desk opens prior to 7am on most days!

 

I'm a cruiser myself and I always thought some cruisers were the whiniest bunch. Then I worked on board.....no comment.:)

[newmexicoNita]

Wow, I must be living right. The most I have ever waited was five minutes because I got there before the restaurant opened and there was already a line. Obviously since all the tables were open the line moved quickly.

 

The other times I ran into a line I changed restaurants or I looked for something in the store and then when back to the same restaurant (since I realized that line was caused by the show just getting out).

 

Okay, I do recall waiting longer once, but that was because the hostess was also the waitress (or the waitress was also the hostess) and I had to wait for her to get to me. However, there were open tables and I was second in line (first after the other couple gave up).

 

Nonetheless, I don't think I would jump to an allegation of false advertising. Most of the written material I have seen does include a disclaimer about "prime time".

Me too, I remember this poster posting last year and I for one have a problem with anyone claiming they had to wait 2 hours even once. Not being there I of course can not say she didn't have a 2 hour wait, but it sounds like this was a nightly thing: that I do doubt.

 

Nita

[jemingway]

Well cruising is big business....many lawyers work in a certain field...I guess this is his choice of the type of lawyering he likes to do...I am sure he has plenty of work. He represents passengers, as well as crew members. Must be a need for this type of attorney.

 

 

There's a whole community of these lawyers in South Florida.:rolleyes:

[Cuizer2]

There's a whole community of these lawyers in South Florida.:rolleyes:

 

Not surprising, since the Carnival and Royal Caribbean contracts require that any lawsuit be filed in Miami. If a particular kind of lawsuit is restricted to one jurisdiction, then don't be surprised if there are lawyers in that jurisdiction that specialize in that kind of litigation.

[Cruising Greek]

I agree that this isn't necessarily the best use of resources (this kind of lawsuit). But to play devil's advocate (since everyone else has the exact same opinion), it seems like everyone is saying "as long as you are flexible, you can get reservations- it might not be the time or place that you want, but you can get some reservations." Now, anyone think that is exactly what NCL promises in it's ads? I just watched one that said: "eat where you want, when you want, with whom you want." Now being an avid reader of these boards, I know what that means, that reservations and flexibility are required etc etc etc. But it seems that everyone here also agrees that NCL is promising a little more in its ads that in can deliver- no one seems to think it is reasonable to expect to eat "where you want, when you want," at least when it comes to the specialty rest's. I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but I think part of this has to do with NCL overreaching with its marketing, just a tiny bit, without making sure it has capacity for everyone to take advantage of what it is selling.... Not sure it merits a class action lawsuit, but I do see why some people who are new to NCL get frustrated that they aren't getting what they thought they were...

 

[dons flame-resistant apparel]

 

No flame. I agree with the points you made. I too saw an NCL commercial and questioned when they said "where you want, when you want". It is just a bit misleading.

[NYFL_TRAVELER]

What I can attest to is, when we sailed on NCL when free-style was in its infancy, we were booked in a suite. We had an issue with getting a certain table for our group of 6 that was being held for someone who never showed up. We wanted a round, not a rectangular table. I am sure that I agree with those who have discussed how rediculous this lawsuit is.

However, Nita, I have heard you bashing lawyers before on other thread. I hope that when my husband fights for rights for seniors and the disabled, whatever he accomplishes is not something that you reap the benefits of. There certainly are plenty of bad lawyers around, just like there are dishonest sales people, tradesmen, etc. I have no idea what you do for a living, or did if you are now retired, but I am sure that there are dishonest people in that business too, so please do not say this again.

 

On behalf of us lawyers, thanks Robin.

[flamingos]

The suit states "It's Impossible" to get reservation. It isn't impossible. "SNOOZE YOU LOSE". If you're slow at making reservation and someone else is faster they get the reservation, it's as simple as that. Impossible means there no chance in H-E-L-L for anyone. That's not true many other get reservations.

 

 

But why should I spend my 'when I want, where I want" vacation getting up at 7 a.m. to make reservations?

 

I won't be sailing NCL again because of this - the angry people we saw all week long, arguing with the door staff at every one of the restaurants - even the Summer Palace. For people who actually listen to the ads, they were disappointed, and angry.

 

We got in to every restaurant we wanted because someone in out party was on the concierge level and they slept in while their reservations were made for them. That wasn't in the ads, either.

[jemingway]

Not surprising, since the Carnival and Royal Caribbean contracts require that any lawsuit be filed in Miami. If a particular kind of lawsuit is restricted to one jurisdiction, then don't be surprised if there are lawyers in that jurisdiction that specialize in that kind of litigation.

 

 

I am an attorney myself, although I don't do that type of work. There is another group that sues the airlines only. Another group sues the railroads, etc.

[NYFL_TRAVELER]

One wonders when the case is thrown out if the Miami Herald will be as interested in the story and print a follow up. We've been in many of the a la carte restaurants where they were half empty and still heard people complaint they couldn't get in. Can't get in, move on to the next one or head for the buffet. I'm sure they didn't go hungry during their cruise. Got to wonder what made the lawyer take the case in the first place - can't be hoping for big bucks from class action on something this frivolous and unfounded. (or is that the same thing? ) It appears he may not have done his homework on this one. Wish there was more detailed information. I may not always be happy with NCL Reservations - but not being told I wouldn't be able to get into a restaurant (limited seating) was not something I would expect them to tell me. Isn't the reservation situation explained in the Freestyle ?

 

Do they charge you at the time of the reservation? If so, good. If not, they should. That would ensure that the people show up and there aren't half-empty dining rooms with no-show tables when other people cannot get in.

[Cuizer2]

I am an attorney myself, although I don't do that type of work. There is another group that sues the airlines only. Another group sues the railroads, etc.

 

Oh, I am sure there is. What I meant was that it is not surprising that the cruise group is in Miami.

[Cuizer2]

Do they charge you at the time of the reservation? If so, good. If not, they should. That would ensure that the people show up and there aren't half-empty dining rooms with no-show tables when other people cannot get in.

 

If you are in an extra cost restaurant and you don't show up there is some sort of a penalty charge, though at the moment I don't recall what it is.

[Cuizer2]

But why should I spend my 'when I want, where I want" vacation getting up at 7 a.m. to make reservations?

 

That is my beef with Freestyle dining. However, when I mention this on the NCL board I either get flamed or I get people who state that they don't understand the problem.

 

Nonetheless, no system is perfect and one has to learn to work within the system and/or be a little flexible. Life is full of disappointments. You aren't going to solve all of life's ills by filing a lawsuit over every little thing. And while most people understand this, what happens is that a person complains (like they should) and receives a response that basically says your problem is not important enough for the cruise ship staff to care about. The person takes this personally and fumes a while (as many people would). However, instead of putting it behind them, as most people would, they continue to fume and soon it is a personal thing. From there every little problem (a missing pillow mint, a warm rather than hot cup of coffee, a rescheduling of an activity that now conflicts with a different activity ...) becomes part of a conspiracy against the passenger. Upon arriving home the passenger calls NCL and is greeted by NCL's well known customer (un)care staff, and the next call is to the attorney (right after the passenger mutters, "I'll show them!").

 

NCL then spends more than the annual salary of several customer care representatives defending itself in a lawsuit that would never have happened if someone with a little empathy had addressed the problem in the beginning. For example, would it hurt NCL if someone on the ship had listened to the problem, then said, "I understand you are unhappy because you could not get the reservation you wanted." Then explained why it is not always possible to give each and every passenger his/her first choice of reservation time and place. If the passenger is still unhappy, that crew member then takes the passenger to a supervisor who, behind a closed door, listens to the problem and then says, "I can't get you into the xxx restaurant tonight, but I can give you a confirmed reservation for tomorrow. What time would you like?" This would cost NCL less than the cost of just responding to the lawsuit (I not talking about the attorney's hourly rate - the courts charge the plaintiffs to file the lawsuit and the defendants to respond to the lawsuit).

 

Even if NCL only avoids one lawsuit per year this way, NCL still comes out ahead.

[johnql]

I sailed on NCL last Sept and couldn't get into a non premium restaurant without a 2 hour wait. I think NCL is definatly guilty of false advertising and should revise it's advertisments. Do I think a law suit is necessary, Well it will open some eyes but i doubt the plaintiff will win an award.

 

This is a radically different experience from mine. I've been on 7 Freestyle cruises and I have only had to wait twice to be seated and both times it was for only 5 or 10 minutes.

[Cosmopolitan]

This is a radically different experience from mine. I've been on 7 Freestyle cruises and I have only had to wait twice to be seated and both times it was for only 5 or 10 minutes.

 

Same for us. We cruise in a suite and have no problem with specialty restaurant reservations BUT... after 8 cruises on NCL, we have waited for a "non premium" restaurant only once.

I believe it was when the Jewel was new. They handed us a "beeper" and said about 20 minutes. We were headed to the lounge for a drink and the beeper when off. The wait was not even 5 minutes.

[dfishner]

I was on RCL jewel of the seas and wanted to make reservations in one of the speciality restaurants, actually try to do it on the afternoon we came aboard, Guess what the restaurant was booked up for the whole week and the only time we could get in was at 9 PM which was to late for us. We tried several times during the week no dice. We were disappointed but it did not ruin our cruise and what we learned is to make our reservation as soon as we board to get what we want. I find the lawsuit funny and so inane I would like to tell this person to get a life. Knowing that there are over 2500 people on a cruise ship and they will all have to eat somewhere it is very easy to do the math that some restaurants will be booked up.

[Sundagger]

I sailed on NCL last Sept and couldn't get into a non premium restaurant without a 2 hour wait. I think NCL is definatly guilty of false advertising and should revise it's advertisments. Do I think a law suit is necessary, Well it will open some eyes but i doubt the plaintiff will win an award.

 

This is a radically different experience from mine. I've been on 7 Freestyle cruises and I have only had to wait twice to be seated and both times it was for only 5 or 10 minutes.

 

Same for us. We cruise in a suite and have no problem with specialty restaurant reservations BUT... after 8 cruises on NCL, we have waited for a "non premium" restaurant only once.

I believe it was when the Jewel was new. They handed us a "beeper" and said about 20 minutes. We were headed to the lounge for a drink and the beeper when off. The wait was not even 5 minutes.

 

This is one thing that has kept me from strongly considering NCL for a cruise. First, there is the lawsuit, then cruisePRN's statement, then the demurrers by johnql and Cosmopolitan. The differences in the statements are so radically different that I have a hard time believing any one of them.

 

I *perceive* that the quality of the pay restaurants is superior to those of the no-added-charge venues. Food and service are important elements of a cruise to me. I realize that not everyone feels this way and other facets of a cruise are more significant to them. Given my preferences, I would probably dine most evenings in one of the pay restaurants. Since I travel solo, it is a rare situation when I could afford suites/villas, so I would have to work within the daily reservation system.

 

I really have no idea what my probability of getting a reservation at 6 or 8 would be (let alone 7) - would it be unlikely that I could get a reservation at one of these times? Would it be better to just show up at a restaurant and take my chances? I truly have no idea even though I've been reading the NCL board for a couple of months.

[coffeebean]

Do they charge you at the time of the reservation? If so, good. If not, they should. That would ensure that the people show up and there aren't half-empty dining rooms with no-show tables when other people cannot get in.

 

You have until 5pm the evening of the reservation to cancel. If you don't cancel in time OR if you don't show, NCL charges your account a fee. I'm not sure how much the fee is, but there is a charge.

[newmexicoNita]

But why should I spend my 'when I want, where I want" vacation getting up at 7 a.m. to make reservations?

 

I won't be sailing NCL again because of this - the angry people we saw all week long, arguing with the door staff at every one of the restaurants - even the Summer Palace. For people who actually listen to the ads, they were disappointed, and angry.

 

We got in to every restaurant we wanted because someone in out party was on the concierge level and they slept in while their reservations were made for them. That wasn't in the ads, either.

I guess we have really been lucky, yes, sometimes we have had to be a little flexible but only twice have we not gotten what we wanted: on the Star last fall we tried to get reservations next to the last night or maybe last night in the Italian restaurant: it was sold out. Another time we tried and tried almost all week to get them at Tapayankis (spelling) we finally did use the concierge.

 

Nita