No more event staff - what next?!?

[kakalina]

We were very disappointed in the reduction of the number of activities on our recent 32 day Hawaii/Tahiti cruise.

There were 17 sea days on this cruise and extrememly little in the way of planned activities. When I spoke to the CD about this he countered with the company line that " HAL is looking to more 'edutainment' than entertainment nowadays".

There was a party planner but I never quite figured out her job. She did hold the mic at the Culinary Events but that seemed to be about it for her workday.

There were bingo assistants who only seemed to do bingo. There were no planned games during the day other than daily trivia which I never miss. There were no games of pictionary, or outburst etc.

One would hope that HAL hears that many of us aren't thrilled with this particular cutback.

[katgio50]

On our recent Noordam cruise, we both felt that the CD Drew was outstanding. However, it was evident that he was stretched to do all the stuff himself. He led the Susan Komen walk and did all 5K by running and then did Trivia right after that. We noticed a distinct lack of activities compared to cruises that we have taken before. I hate to see HA cut back on things that made them my favorite cruise line.

[INSIDERS CABIN]

Our last time with all the assistant cruise directors was in fall 2007-maybe even spring 2007-after that it was the party planner and the CD! I think the party planners do their own scheduling--we have had very active ones in the cuilinary center and almost absent ones! On the noordam we thought that the DJ was also stretched very thin with long hours. Maybe a factor is passengers doing fewer activities on board, especially with a port intensive cruise like Europe, shore ex take up the slack! the cast members in the past have been very active, working the library, accompanying shore ex trips and working with that dept, giving the backstage tours--on recent trips, we didn't see any of that. We had 7 day cruises with future cruise consultants last 18 mos or so. On holiday noordam i don't think there were any microsoft classes, which were big on the Eurodam this summer.......and which also required a separate staff position. Beginning to think all this staffing varies by the demographics of the cruise

[hammybee]

 

We all love to see the prices of our cruises come down and we squeal with glee when we discover that we are paying less today for a seven-day cruise than we paid five to ten years ago. But there is a downside to that, and the downside is that the cruise lines have to cut costs in order to maintain their profit margins. The events staff is probably one area where they are doing that. Blue skies ...--rita

 

Excellent summary, Rita.

 

The name of the game is affordable cruising. The big ship cruise lines can and do offer more activities because they can amortize the cost over a substantially larger passenger base.

[fann1sh]

I understand and agree this is a $$ issue.

 

I can roll with the punches on every other change the new economy has brought to cruising, and HAL in particular. But, silly as it may sound, this is the issue I can't get past.

 

I'd pay to participate in small venue games....but that ship has sailed, at least on HAL. I may sail on along with it! At very least, I'm considering Celebrity for my next cruise, and no longer consider HAL "my one and only".

 

I feel for MountainGuy, and every other overworked and under appreciated HAL employee - but especially those involved in ship's activities.

[michmike]

we've always met a fun group of people at Trivia, Pictionary, Scattergories, Catch Phrase etc.. and enjoy the little trinkets we have won, esp the HAL coffee mugs. I think it is a distinct loss esp on sea days if those activities no longer take place.

 

If nothing else, if HAL would provide the space and the prizes, some of us cruise critic folks might be willing to run an event during our time on board just to keep those things going on.. I'm sure there will be those who offer up a host of reasons that couldn't work, but seems to me to be preferable to losing those venues altogether.

 

What are your thoughts?

[RuthC]

I can't help but wonder ... was this a seven-day cruise? If so, there shouldn't have been any future cruise consultants onboard. I was under the impression that on shorter cruises, you can just pick up your cabin phone and dial a special number for HAL in Seattle to book a future cruise. The call is also free. Has that policy changed, I wonder?

Future Cruise Consultants have been on all regularly scheduled HAL cruises for over two years now. This expansion started at least by July 2006.

[irishjim]

Bingo will never be cut,makes lots of money for HAL. imho.

[mountainguy]

This is an interesting discussion. Let me chime in as an insider: I believe there is a "future cruise consultant" on every cruise, as this is vital to promoting cruises and generatig income for the fleet. The position is seen as so vital to operations that the "future cruise consultant" is introduced during the Captain's Welcome Aboard Toast and attends most if not all Mariner Society functions. The singers and dancers are actually semi-HAL employees - they have the freedom to dine with the guests, attend the Crow's Nest at night, etc., unlike most non-officer crew, but they are actually employed by Stiletto Entertainment from Los Angeles. In the old days entertainers did function to some degree as helpers at events, but not anymore. The Party Planner position is problematic - resented by older, existing staff and not really responsible to Entertainment Department or Hotel Department. Most Hotel Manager's hate the position and resent whoever has it. As a matter of fact, the Dutch senior crew have a very bad attitude about Entertainment staff in general and are generally disgusted that Bill Prince has the new Event Manager wearig a uniform, complete with Junior Officer stripes. We wondered why the CD didn't have a similar uniform for certain formal events, since CD's are 3-stripe officers - second only to the Hotel Manager. But there is certainly no external evidence of such rank. Also, an important development is that HAL home office has a carefully defined list of "approved" activities that may be conducted now. Shuffleboard is out for staff participation. Most of the old games are now not allowed. Mostly golf chipping, golf putting, ship building, a couple of silly game shows on stage before certain performances, bingo, bingo, bingo and trivia. With regard to the librarian being the IT person, that's not correct. They are separate. Unless, of course, they've changed it again. They change it all the time. Once we wore uniforms, then our own clothes (no clothing allowance reimbursement), and then all sorts of varieties, depending on today's whim. One other thing that's important: we work up to 4 months on a ship, then two off, then 4 on, etc. During the time we don't work, we aren't paid, aren't eligible for unemployment - most states don't recognize Washington State or Holland; and they don't take out the normal deductions from your check. We get paid onboard twice a month in cash!! Most staff/crew have thousands of thousands of dollars laying around in their cabins while they try to figure out how to get it deposited. Ever try to get $5,000 home from Denmark to your bank in Silver Spring, MD? It's a nightmare. But back to the event staff. They usually only work one or two contracts. Many are college kids or straight out of college. Most have GOB's or BOB's onboard - girlfriend's or boyfriend's onboard and some are dating the Dutch crew. Almost all the people I worked with are now gone - either not rehired or dismissed under dubious circumstances. It's really sad, too, since a lot of us really like the company and could see what it could be - it's potential, that is. We know the shows are tired; the food iffy; the giveaway's chinzy. We know we sail without enough provisions to get through the voyage. We are overworked and underpaid. Gosh, why do we do it? Being on the sea is fabulous and you meet the most interesting and wonderful friends, I guess.

[eldercruser]

This is an interesting discussion and illustrates the internal problems happening at HAL which many of us have suspected for some time. Once personnel problems become so severe that former employees start sounding off in problem anyone who is familiar with large organizations know that a downward trend has been firmly established.

 

It appears that HAL has at least, temporarily, lost its way in trying to decide what kind of a cruise line it wants to be. I expect the next group to start leaving will be the Dutch officers, particularly the ones in the Hotel Department since they take the brunt of passenger dissatisfaction and the pressure of cost reduction from the home office.

 

We will be on board the Noordam in a few weeks. I plan to keep a keen eye out for the subtleties that indicate short staffing and personnel morale problems. Having been in the service industry for many years, I don't think such things will slip by.

[bepsf]

Make your suggestions to Bill Prince...

...at the home office. Maybe they will listen to the public.

 

Don't waste your breath on Bill Prince - That one doesn't give a Rats You-Know-What about what we paying passengers or anyone else thinks (except Stein Kruse).

 

IMO - Rather than cutting back on staff aboard the ships, they should send him back to Vegas.

[RuthC]

Don't waste your breath on Bill Prince - That one doesn't give a Rats You-Know-What about what we paying passengers or anyone else thinks (except Stein Kruse).

 

IMO - Rather than cutting back on staff aboard the ships, they should send him back to Vegas.

I absolutely agree. Since he came to town the entertainment hasn't been anywhere near acceptable. It used to be the best part of my cruises.

[Copper10-8]

Appreciate the input, Mountainguy! I have seen the silly games on stage in the showroom i.e. 'how fast can you make the bed':rolleyes: There was a time when the - then called - cruise staff consisted of at least six persons who each 'ran' certain onboard games like volleyball, ping pong, golf chipping, shuffleboard, even tug-o-war on HMC but I guess that's all a thing of the past.

 

Just making sure I understand; this new position 'event manager' (saw her in uniform on Ryndam last Spring, she was, I believe a one or two striper) reports to the CD. If she more or less 'assigns' the CD his/her activities for the day while the CD only reports to the HM, kinda wonder how that one jives? Makes for an interesting relationship between the CD and the EM:eek:

[hammybee]

 

Once personnel problems become so severe that former employees start sounding off in problem anyone who is familiar with large organizations know that a downward trend has been firmly established.

 

Former and existing disgruntled employees have been sounding off about their current and former employers since time began. For a real jaw dropper, try reading some of the internet health care forums, sometime.

 

None of us know who is behind most screen names or their motives, if any.

Just because it's posted somewhere, does not make it true.

Just because it's not posted somewhere, does not mean it isn't true.

[hammybee]

I hate to say this, but what do the cast members do on days they don't rehearse and don't have a show? Why aren't they picking up the slack and assisting the cruise director with some of these activities. Not that I'm saying they will make the cruise director's job a breeze, but there are still a lot of things they can do to ease his/her load. Why not have them running golf chipping and Dam dollar events, assisting with some of the games, etc.?

 

--rita

 

Cast members are not HAL employees. Here's a link to the company that provides HAL's onboard entertainers. Their contracts do not require them to perform the functions you describe.

http://www.stilettoentertainment.com/cruiseship/faqs.htm

[eldercruser]

Hammybee - I know you consider yourself an expert on many issues and that you particularly like to discredit "disgruntled" employees. However, the trend is clear that HAL has an employee morale problem. That fact is being reported time and again and been observed by many veteran customers.

 

As for the health care forums - no doubt there are many employee complaints. With the squeezing of revenues versus costs, employees are taking the brunt of the problem just as they are at HAL. Insurers and the government (Medicare for example) are paying as little as possible and costs continue to rise. Solution: trim the staff.

 

HAL is doing the same. The problem here is they have decided to compete on price with the lowest cost operator, but still promise a superior product. Eventually that approach takes a toll on employees who are asked to do more with less and the venture either fails or redesigns itself. HAL appears to be going through that process now. It may well be the "Oldsmobile" of the Carnival Corporation. It is neither the high end or the low end of the corporation and is trying to figure out how to identify itself. If it doesn't it may be doomed to the same fate that befell Oldsmobile.

[hammybee]

Don't waste your breath on Bill Prince - That one doesn't give a Rats You-Know-What about what we paying passengers or anyone else thinks (except Stein Kruse).

 

IMO - Rather than cutting back on staff aboard the ships, they should send him back to Vegas.

 

(Brian, This is not directed at you.)

 

As the Director of Entertainment for HAL, he gets a budget and is expected to make it work, no different than most corporate functions.

 

Maybe he is a creative genius and can get blood from a turnip. Maybe he is an organizational nightmare. Beats me. I DK Bill Prince from the next guy.

 

What is obvious is that the cost of cruising, in most cabins, on most sailings has been declining, for years and yet the cabin appointments have never been better. Cruise line A slashes their prices, undercutting the competition. Cruise line B offers $500 substantial OBC. Cruise line C offers free shore excursions. And the cruise line that does not compete is not going to be around for much longer because most people are looking for affordable vacations, assuming they are not in the middle of a foreclosure and/or in the unemployment line. Is this a race to the bottom or survival? You tell me.

 

A party of 4 can book, right now, a 14 day BTB Alaskan cruise in an outside cabin for about $45 p/p, per day. There's no charge for Club HAL, live shows, movies, decent and abundant food, room service, a well-appointed cabin with a flat screen TV/DVD, comfy beds, guest speakers and naturalists, beautiful scenery, swimming pools, prominades and more.

 

This same party of 4 can then rationalize voiding the Hotel Service Charge because it's not their job to pay the people who serve them and since their CC card is maxed out due to the economy, they are not going to do any onboard spending.

 

And some of them are going to be very, very disappointed that their half star priced cruise vacation did not result in their perception of a 5 Star experience, the way it used to be, back when.

[barbon2]

Yes, our 7 day cruise had a couple who were the future cruise planners. Again, take up cabin space on a ship to make money for the cruiseline. Keep cutting back on entertainment, etc., and soon the line will not require future cruise planners, because no one will be cruising HAL.

Barbara

[cruisequeen10]

I just booked my Veendam cruise (Mexico - Sea of Cortez) for Sep/09. After reading this about cutting back on activities, maybe I will think again about going HAL. We will be having 5 sea days and I expect to attend every trivia game, dancing, bingo (and of course the cruise line makes money on it, they don't pay out to the winners so they keep it) and anything else they can come up with.

[kyriecat]

While I agree that new cruisers want the 5 star experience for minimum $$$ that the cruiselines seem to advertise, it seems like the more experienced cruiser wants a good value for their money, not necessarily the cheapest price. Also, HAL won't get over its "cruiseline for the aged" reputation if they don't offer entertainment that appeals to the mass cruisers. I had sailed with RC for several years but I haven't appreciated the cut backs in service and rude staff on my last couple trips. However, they do offer several events every day to give cruisers a choice in activities. I heard good things about the service on HAL and was willing to give it a try despite the price of my 14-day cruise being more than I would have paid for 2X 7-night B2B cruises in a similar cabin size on RC. My friends, when hearing I was sailing next on HAL, made comments like "My GRANDMOTHER sails on HAL". Hubby and I are in our middle 30s. We don't need tons of entertainment since we've got a balcony to enjoy and have a port-intensive cruise. However, a good show or an entertaining pianist would be nice for the evenings. It would also be nice to have a few organized games during sea days - we enjoy trivia and some of the board-type games mentioned. I've never been a fan of bingo so will always skip that.

[marle7]

I am one of those cruisers who rarely participates in the daily activities and who mostly never knows who the cruise director is.:) We spend our days either at the pool, on our balcony or at the casino. I probably won't notice that some of these activities are gone. Still, it distresses me to hear of the cutbacks in a line that bills its self as a premium cruise line. And more, to hear of the overall morale problem that seems to be occurring on HAL ships.

[mountainguy]

I just want to be clear about one thing, I'm not what you'd call "a disgruntled former employee." I just want to participate in this forum from an insider's perspective because I think it's important to know the source of certain corporate behaviors and answer questions or clarify things as only an insider does. I genuinely don't have an axe to grind. I don't know what qualifies anyone to make comments about the things I've spoken of except someone who has sat at the conference table and participated in making every detail of a cruise happen, as I have. But honestly, this isn't about me and any perceived gripes I might have, it's about being a rare resource and glimpse into the inner workings of HAL, which I believe the majority of cruisers appreciate. For my part, I truly love HAL, but just because I might not agree with every decision they make is merely my right, just like everyone else's. They do 90% right in my book. But how else will the facts get out and change be implemented? Criticism, percieved or real, is not a bad thing. That's what a forum is.

[RuthC]

I just want to be clear about one thing, I'm not what you'd call "a disgruntled former employee." I just want to participate in this forum from an insider's perspective ...

And at least some of us are glad to have you aboard. Please pull up a keyboard and participate. Your imput is welcome.

[mountainguy]

Appreciate the input, Mountainguy! I have seen the silly games on stage in the showroom i.e. 'how fast can you make the bed':rolleyes: There was a time when the - then called - cruise staff consisted of at least six persons who each 'ran' certain onboard games like volleyball, ping pong, golf chipping, shuffleboard, even tug-o-war on HMC but I guess that's all a thing of the past.

 

Just making sure I understand; this new position 'event manager' (saw her in uniform on Ryndam last Spring, she was, I believe a one or two striper) reports to the CD. If she more or less 'assigns' the CD his/her activities for the day while the CD only reports to the HM, kinda wonder how that one jives? Makes for an interesting relationship between the CD and the EM:eek:

 

That is correct. The Event Manager is a two-stripe junior officer, technically still under the pervue of the CD. But the home office has taken away the CD's desk, desk duties, changed the sign on the door to Entertainment Office and given all administrative functions to the Event Manager. We CD's used to attend weekly revenue meetings, proforma meetings, etc., but now the Event Manager does it. The Event Manager decides what does or doesn't go in the Daily Program, what the daily schedules are of the CD, DJ/MC, Party Planner and all the other department members. The Event Manager reports directly to home office. Often we never knew what was going on because we were totally out of the loop. Most CD's are young men and women without much experience, thus, the salty dog Hotel Managers and Captains wouldn't give them the time of day. The creation of this position engendered huge waves of problems throughout the company and aboard all vessels in the fleet - so much so that it hasn't been effectively implemented across the board yet. Aside from meetings and other functions, Event Managers stay in the office and have no guest contact. At least the old position of Senior Assistant Cruise Director was before the guests nearly as much as the CD. Also, Senior Assistant Cruise Director was on career path to becoming CD, but neither Event Manager, DJ/MC or Party Planner is considered a candidate for CD. In all fairness, the new plan might work, but the way it was implemented was shocking to staff and crew. Does that help? :D

[Copper10-8]

That is correct. The Event Manager is a two-stripe junior officer, technically still under the pervue of the CD. But the home office has taken away the CD's desk, desk duties, changed the sign on the door to Entertainment Office and given all administrative functions to the Event Manager. We CD's used to attend weekly revenue meetings, proforma meetings, etc., but now the Event Manager does it. The Event Manager decides what does or doesn't go in the Daily Program, what the daily schedules are of the CD, DJ/MC, Party Planner and all the other department members. The Event Manager reports directly to home office. Often we never knew what was going on because we were totally out of the loop. Most CD's are young men and women without much experience, thus, the salty dog Hotel Managers and Captains wouldn't give them the time of day. The creation of this position engendered huge waves of problems throughout the company and aboard all vessels in the fleet - so much so that it hasn't been effectively implemented across the board yet. Aside from meetings and other functions, Event Managers stay in the office and have no guest contact. At least the old position of Senior Assistant Cruise Director was before the guests nearly as much as the CD. Also, Senior Assistant Cruise Director was on career path to becoming CD, but neither Event Manager, DJ/MC or Party Planner is considered a candidate for CD. In all fairness, the new plan might work, but the way it was implemented was shocking to staff and crew. Does that help? :D

 

Yes it does, thanks! One more if you don't mind? Do the new event manager(s) have a similar (entertainment) background as the CD's and, if not, where (from what Dept) does HAL get them from, Aministrative?