No more event staff - what next?!?

[mountainguy]

No. Many are not even college grads. They come from shoreside and usually don't have an entertainment or marine background. Honestly, I guess they just pick them up off the job boards. A couple were Club Hal assistants, one I know came from the old cruise staff when it was phased out, and the rest...who knows? Several I know are brilliant, several not so - like everything. :cool:

[Copper10-8]

No. Many are not even college grads. They come from shoreside and usually don't have an entertainment or marine background. Honestly, I guess they just pick them up off the job boards. A couple were Club Hal assistants, one I know came from the old cruise staff when it was phased out, and the rest...who knows? Several I know are brilliant, several not so - like everything. :cool:

 

Thanks! Hope you consider sticking around here once and a while and share your experience

[kryos]

We are overworked and underpaid. Gosh, why do we do it? Being on the sea is fabulous and you meet the most interesting and wonderful friends, I guess.

Thank you so much for that inside glimpse into how things work at HAL. I agree, the company probably has so much potential they are not taking advantage of ... cost-cutting rears its ugly head again. :(

 

Thank you for correcting me regarding the future cruise consultant. Yes, she was introduced along with the other officers at the Welcome Aboard event, but since I was on a 35-day cruise at the time, I didn't realize these folks were on ALL cruises. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

 

I also wasn't aware that the cast didn't work for HAL. I knew Stiletto Entertainment puts each cast together and rehearses them in Los Angeles, but I thought they were only acting as HAL's agent for entertainment. Interesting. That explains why the cast can't be used onboard for other functions.

 

Again, your post was very edifying. Hope you stick around to occasionally clear things up for us when they get "muddy."

 

Blue skies!

 

--rita

[eldercruser]

Mountainguy - thanks for the input. I relate 100% to everything you say. Have seen this type of personnel shuffle played several times before and rarely has it come close to being successful.

 

Time will tell in the case of HAL. Obviously, one of the big factors driving these decisions is the price of CCL stock which is now worth half of what is was worth two years ago. When a company suspends its dividend as Carnival has, you know cash flow is tight. The question remains whether it is worthwhile, in the long run, to irreparably damage the product trying to manage your way through the problem.

 

Perhaps the dramatic decrease in oil prices will give management some breathing room and let them return to the job of providing a superior product. On the other hand if they insist (or if the market demands it) on meeting the prices of the lowest cost provider we may see even more "economic" measures.

 

My personal opinion, which is worth nothing, is that the the cruise lines are slowly going down the path of the airline industry where everyone is trying to match the lowest price and service is continuously compromised. Eventually cruise lines will lose their brand identity and individuals will book based on price and schedule just as the public now does with airlines.

[whogo]

I do not know anything about cutbacks. I thought the event staff on the Rotterdam 12 day cruise starting 12/23/08 was the best ever.

 

Cruise director Jesse Highley

DJ Matt

Party Planner Kyle

Amber

John

The woman who looked like Amber but wasn't.

 

I had no dealings with the Club Hal staff. Trivia was very well run and offered at least once each day. Looking through my Daily Programs, I count 47 Sports of Call events, about 4 per day.

 

There were 35 Party Planner events or almost 3 per day. I did not take part in any party planner events and have no idea what the party planner did for the dessert extravaganza.

 

Jesse Highley ran at least three of the trivia contests. If this is because someone else schedules his activities, then I am all for it.

 

Bridge players were unhosted. Could not other games be unhosted? Pictionary? Scattergories? Does there have to be a HAL logoed prize to draw people in?

 

Not really event staff, Michael Millwood was the best port lecturer ever, speaking on the Panama Canal and Columbus's first voyage, and piano man Jeff Warren ran a few name that tune contests.

 

There was more than enough to keep me entertained.

[hammybee]

I just want to be clear about one thing, I'm not what you'd call "a disgruntled former employee." I just want to participate in this forum from an insider's perspective because I think it's important to know the source of certain corporate behaviors and answer questions or clarify things as only an insider does.

 

I appreciate the insight you bring from an onboard experience standpoint. This experience however, is that of the front line and far removed from the financial aspects of running a business, any business.

 

Cruise lines did not write the book on unbridled expansion. It is the nature of business to expand until supply exceeds demand, whether it's Starbucks, Subway, residential/commerical construction, hotels, banks and oh yeah, cruise lines.

 

The travel/hospitality industry has always been highly vulnerable to all economic downturns and this particular downturn is worse and deeper than any other, in recent history.

 

Third-quarter profits fell a whopping 28 percent at Marriott, an industry bellwether, because of its huge global presence and its wide range of hotel brands, Courtyard -Ritz-Carlton, and everything in between. They can't fill their rooms, regardless if the rate is $79 or $799 per night. Should they upgrade the pillow chocolates?

 

Analysts forecast a significant downturn of both passenger volumes and pricing in 2009 and 2010, for all cruise lines. This downturn has absolutely nothing to do with the onboard experience and all to do with consumer fears, changing priorities and tapped out credit cards.

 

The dramatic reduction in demand is expected to compress operating margins because of the significant fixed costs involved in operating a cruise line. Depending on the magnitude and duration of the economic downturn, most alanysts believe that one or more cruise lines will face serious financial health issues because of debt loads and the need for ongoing financing. Right now, RCL is the weak link. Who knows what tomorrow will bring other than some will not survive.

 

BTW, most people who are employed wear their own clothing to work and do not receive any reimbursement. Most people who are employed by contract are not paid when they do not work and are not eligible for unemployment benefits, upon expiration of their contract. Job functions and reporting structures constantly change in most organizations. ANd no doubt about it, most employees feel over worked and under paid. Internet message boards are yesterday's water coolers.

 

As I said, I appreciate your perspective and that it plays well to consumers, some of whom are disgruntled, too. Disgruntled means nothing more than disatisfied, a chronic human condition. Peace. :)

[hammybee]

My personal opinion, which is worth nothing, is that the the cruise lines are slowly going down the path of the airline industry where everyone is trying to match the lowest price and service is continuously compromised. Eventually cruise lines will lose their brand identity and individuals will book based on price and schedule just as the public now does with airlines.

 

I agree with this. The part that I see differently ( and my opinion is also worth nothing) is that it's the consumer who changed the airline experience because the consumer decided price was more important than anything, other than safety. Most passengers will not even take advantage of the opportunity to improve their onboard experience and upgrade to more legroom in coach, for a relatively nominal fee. Most passengers will not pay the premium for Business/ First Class unless they are using points/frequent flyer status to do so.

 

Flights between domestic hubs are as much as 75% less than they were 15-20 years ago, with fewer restrictions. The airline who will not or cannot compete on price, is an airline that is history.

 

And maybe that's OK. Maybe consumers will drive, take a bus or stay put, do without and live within their means and air travel will revert back to something more than the back of the bus experience it has become. And if it does, it's going to be because there are sufficient passengers willing and able to consisitently pay a significant premium for a premium experience.

[cruzincurt]

I agree with this. The part that I see differently ( and my opinion is also worth nothing) is that it's the consumer who changed the airline experience because the consumer decided price was more important than anything, other than safety. Most passengers will not even take advantage of the opportunity to improve their onboard experience and upgrade to more legroom in coach, for a relatively nominal fee. Most passengers will not pay the premium for Business/ First Class unless they are using points/frequent flyer status to do so.

 

Flights between domestic hubs are as much as 75% less than they were 15-20 years ago, with fewer restrictions. The airline who will not or cannot compete on price, is an airline that is history.

 

And maybe that's OK. Maybe consumers will drive, take a bus or stay put, do without and live within their means and air travel will revert back to something more than the back of the bus experience it has become. And if it does, it's going to be because there are sufficient passengers willing and able to consisitently pay a significant premium for a premium experience.

 

Sitting on an airplane for 2, 3 or 4 hours is nowhere near being on a cruise ship for 7 days. Paying $100 to upgrade to a first class seat for a 2 hour trip is questionable, paying $100 to upgrade a ship cabin for seven days is not the same. I don't need to be pampered for those 2 hours, just get me there safe, and on time with my luggage.

 

After the first couple of cruises, I don't even notice who the CD might be; he/she is not an integral part of our cruise experience.

 

"Obviously, one of the big factors driving these decisions is the price of CCL stock which is now worth half of what is was worth two years ago." Or not, most stocks are worth half of what they were two years ago due to market conditions. The price of a stock does not determine the profitability or operating costs of a company. The price of a stock is what someone is willing to buy it for.

[kryos]

My personal opinion, which is worth nothing, is that the the cruise lines are slowly going down the path of the airline industry where everyone is trying to match the lowest price and service is continuously compromised. Eventually cruise lines will lose their brand identity and individuals will book based on price and schedule just as the public now does with airlines.

It's funny, but I was thinking the same thing. I wonder if it might not be a more sound business decision to hold prices in line with what they've been ... even if that means sailing with ships being below their passenger capacity? I don't know ... but if I were running a premium line like HAL, or a luxury line ... I would be inclined to only let prices drop so much, and no more. If I slash prices, the public is gonna infer that my cruise line is no better than a mass market line, and that perception is gonna be hard to erase in the future. It might be better to let the ships sail with empty cabins for a year or so ... until the economy straightens out than to try to price compete with the mass market lines for passengers.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

Bridge players were unhosted. Could not other games be unhosted? Pictionary? Scattergories? Does there have to be a HAL logoed prize to draw people in?

That was exactly the case on our 35-day cruise. When we found that there were no longer any games like Scattergories and whatnot, one of our CC group members made exactly that suggestion to the CD. Can't you put something in the daily program about an UNHOSTED game at such and such a time, and let interested passengers head there to play? He did exactly that, and most days if two or three people showed up, that was a lot. And remember, this was a cruise with about 18 sea days. Most cruises with a normal number of sea days, you probably wouldn't even get that.

 

We did have a bridge lecturer, though ... so I know the bridge games were hosted. But, again, this was a 35-day cruise. On shorter ones, no bridge lecturer is brought along.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

But honestly, this isn't about me and any perceived gripes I might have, it's about being a rare resource and glimpse into the inner workings of HAL, which I believe the majority of cruisers appreciate. For my part, I truly love HAL, but just because I might not agree with every decision they make is merely my right, just like everyone else's. They do 90% right in my book. But how else will the facts get out and change be implemented? Criticism, percieved or real, is not a bad thing. That's what a forum is.

And we truly appreciate you being that resource. It's funny, but while some of us sound disgruntled when we complain about this and that on our cruises, the fact is that I think the majority of us would admit that we love HAL too ... and feel they are doing most things right. Otherwise, why would we have so many sailings on HAL ships?

 

Please stick around and be that resource for us. You are truly helping us to understand some things.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[cruzincurt]

Quote: "If I slash prices, the public is gonna infer that my cruise line is no better than a mass market line, and that perception is gonna be hard to erase in the future. It might be better to let the ships sail with empty cabins for a year or so ... until the economy straightens out than to try to price compete with the mass market lines for passengers."

 

I don't understand this apparently negative fear of "mass market". If I build a dozen ships costing $500 Million or more, accommodate 2,000 passengers and sail weekly, what do you call that? If the ships sail less than full, the cruise line will not be in business for long. How do they make their payments on all those new ships?

[kyriecat]

Sitting on an airplane for 2, 3 or 4 hours is nowhere near being on a cruise ship for 7 days. Paying $100 to upgrade to a first class seat for a 2 hour trip is questionable, paying $100 to upgrade a ship cabin for seven days is not the same. I don't need to be pampered for those 2 hours, just get me there safe, and on time with my luggage.

WOW! What airline only charges $100 to upgrade to first class? I've always seen prices that were 3 or more times the coach price. Like someone posted earlier, we only upgrade when we can use FF miles to do so because of the costs.

[luxurysailer]

All one has to do in order to confirm what is happening with onboard entertainment is to review daily programs from past cruises. The number of activities has undeniably decreased significantly, I would say roughly by about 30%.

 

Our trip out of Venice on the Zuiderdam last April was a very good example. I think the CD had only a staff of two. And the results showed. Activities were almost invariably late starting, personnel didn't know how to operate equipment and were out of breath when they finally arrived late to conduct some activity, etc.

 

Maybe they can get away with this on the cruise lines that cater to the 20-30 something year olds, but the majority of HAL pax are too old to make their own entertainment. And if they try, the dispensary is going to be overwhelmed with heart attacks.

[kyriecat]

I don't understand this apparently negative fear of "mass market". If I build a dozen ships costing $500 Million or more, accommodate 2,000 passengers and sail weekly, what do you call that? If the ships sail less than full, the cruise line will not be in business for long. How do they make their payments on all those new ships?

I think the perception is when you slash prices just to fill the ship, you get a crowd who doesn't know what to do on a ship. I saw this article linked on another cruise thread. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/travel/news/article5489227.ece?token=null&offset=0&page=1

 

Basically, they lowered prices to amost nothing to fill the ship and ended up with more than they bargained for. I found that on another cruiseline making a long weekend sailing. Prices were low enough to justify flying to Miami for a quick cruise. YIKES! I won't EVER do that again. I have never seen so many drunk and obnoxious cruisers. There were so many that the staff couldn't seem to control them. I ended up leaving the deck party to return to my cabin because I did not feel safe being on the deck with those people - fights, stripping, people being pushed into the pool, and throwing food.

[our turn]

Kyriecat, thanks for the link to that article. I can not imagine how horrible that cruise must have been. As with most folks, our vacation days and dollars are limited and it would be very sad to have wasted them on such an experience.

 

I found most troubling the paragraph about the limited security available on that cruise. It made me wonder if there are guidelines in place for the amount of security on cruiseships and if we are protected from cutbacks in that area.

 

Kim

[Krazy Kruizers]

Kyriecat

Thank you for the link to the article. Sure glad we weren't on the Ventura.

[kyriecat]

I found most troubling the paragraph about the limited security available on that cruise. It made me wonder if there are guidelines in place for the amount of security on cruiseships and if we are protected from cutbacks in that area.

I don't know if there are any guidelines on how many security personnel are required for sailings. I've mostly followed RC's board and have noticed that weekend sailings (especially holiday weekends), school breaks, and summer seem to generate the most complaints on passenger behavior and lack of security. Unfortunately these mostly involve the behavior of teens or college-age adults. Occasionally, I'll see someone post about a passenger or two who got drunk and embarrassed themselves, but not too often. I've seen a couple threads on bad passenger behavior posted on the HAL board since I started following it but not too many. It seems like HAL passengers are more likely to simply be rude rather than drunk and obnoxious. ;) As a general rule, I avoid sailing during the "high" cruise periods. The only time I had a problem with obnoxious behavior was the cruise I mentioned above. We booked it for my birthday since it was so cheap, not noticing at that time that is was also MLK weekend. On that cruise, it was the young adults behaving like they were at a frat party that caused problems. We had a couple incidents with teens but nothinig like the frat bunch!

[kryos]

I don't understand this apparently negative fear of "mass market". If I build a dozen ships costing $500 Million or more, accommodate 2,000 passengers and sail weekly, what do you call that? If the ships sail less than full, the cruise line will not be in business for long. How do they make their payments on all those new ships?

Perception is everything. If you slash prices to bargain basement rates, of course you're gonna have to slash the onboard experience too ... cutting out lots of things, having lower quality food, bartenders who are very light-handed, less activities, less entertainment, etc., etc. Basically you're offering the identical cruise experience that the more "budget" lines offer.

 

Then the economy improves and you want to raise those prices. You claim, "well, HAL is a "premium" cruise experience, passengers should expect to pay more for HAL cruise than a Carnival one." And those passengers will say, "huh? HAL is no different than Carnival, and Carnival is only asking $399 for their seven-day cruise. Why the heck should I pay HAL $799 for the same cruise?" Those passengers will never come back, and HAL will be stuck. That's because those passengers will perceive HAL as being no different than every other cruise line ... in fact, probably a lot worse considering they don't offer the "family amenities" that many of those other lines do ... such as the rock walls, water slides, ice skating, bowling, etc.

 

Sometimes it is better to keep up perceptions. Yes, you might have to suck it up and sail with some ships not completely full for the short-term. But if you cause public perceptions to decline by slashing prices to levels that would not be indicative of a premium cruise experience, then you will never be able to change the public's perception of your cruise line being just another mass market line. HAL will then be forced, in the long-term, to compete directly with all those other lines ... on the basis of price. If anything, HAL will have to undercut those other lines due to the lack of the aforementioned onboard amenities ... and thus the cruise experience offered on HAL will become greatly eroded.

 

Better to bite the bullet right now to prevent that from happening and to maintain their niche value as a more "elegant" cruise experience. The economy will turn around and when they do, HAL will still have their loyal customer base of people who want a nice, laid-back, elegant cruise experience.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

Basically, they lowered prices to amost nothing to fill the ship and ended up with more than they bargained for. I found that on another cruiseline making a long weekend sailing. Prices were low enough to justify flying to Miami for a quick cruise. YIKES! I won't EVER do that again. I have never seen so many drunk and obnoxious cruisers. There were so many that the staff couldn't seem to control them. I ended up leaving the deck party to return to my cabin because I did not feel safe being on the deck with those people - fights, stripping, people being pushed into the pool, and throwing food.

That's called a "booze cruise." Carnival runs a lot of them on 3-day weekend sailings. They're great for young working people since they can get grandma to watch the kids for the weekend, and head onto the boat to party. They don't even have to take a day off from work since the boat doesn't sail until 5:00 p.m. on Friday anyway. They could just cut out a couple of hours early and head to the pier. Then they can head straight back to work on Monday morning after disembarkation.

 

They come onto the boat for one reason, and one reason only. To party hardy. They're generally at the bars ordering their first drink before the cabins are even ready.

 

That's the nice thing about HAL. They don't offer too many "shorty" cruises and hence don't get that "element" on their ships. But if they start cutting prices on their cruises by too much, trust me, they'll start attracting that same element as well ... and the whole HAL experience will be ruined for the rest of us. That's why I'd rather see HAL hold the line on prices ... even if it means some ships not sailing entirely full. They'll benefit in the long-run by keeping up their standards.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

Maybe they can get away with this on the cruise lines that cater to the 20-30 something year olds, but the majority of HAL pax are too old to make their own entertainment. And if they try, the dispensary is going to be overwhelmed with heart attacks.

I think it all depends on the cruise. Sadly, I think a lot of the activities had very poor attendance and that may be why they were cut out. Especially if the cruise has a lot of ports, people are interested in getting off the ship and doing things there. When onboard they are interested in eating, maybe relaxing in a lounge, and then going back to their cabin to sleep. They really don't have much interest in onboard games and activities and tend to avoid them. That's probably why on the shorter cruises, HAL doesn't offer as much ... little in the way of Explorations Speakers, limited games ... the only thing that really draws a crowd is the Dam Dollars sporting events, and those they do run.

 

On my recent 35-day cruise ... a longer one even by HAL standards ... the cruise staff had eliminated many of the games like Scattergories, Pictionary, etc. Someone in our CC group suggested that if they no longer offer those games as hosted events, couldn't they at least mention get-togethers for them and offer them as non-hosted events. Just have someone make sure the game was available in a certain lounge, and let the passengers meet there to play it on their own. Well, he agreed to do that and when the first meet-up was mentioned in the daily program, only this CC member and one other person showed up to play. Since the game, whatever it was, required a minimum of four people to play, obviously it never took place. I have a feeling the turnout was similar when they were hosting the events, and that's why they eliminated them. You'll notice trivia is still offered ... sometimes several times a day. Why? Because that event tends to draw a large turnout, just as the Dam Dollar events do, which are still run several times a day.

 

Dance hosts are not brought along on shorter cruises. Why? Because on shorter cruises you tend not to get as many single ladies traveling alone. On the 35-day cruise I mentioned above, it was broken up into actually two cruises -- beginning with a five or three day coastal from Vancouver to either San Francisco or San Diego ... followed by a 30-day Hawaii/South Pacific sailing. There were many people onboard from Vancouver who were just doing the coastal. These were a lot of families and couples. The poor dance hosts ... four of them ... were brought on from Vancouver. They spent most of their evenings standing around, asking people to dance, and being turned down. The one guy told me that if this was the way the entire cruise was gonna go, it would be the last time he signed on to be a "social host." I told him "don't worry -- after we hit San Diego and pick up all the 30-day cruisers, you'll be busier than you'd ever want to be." I was right. After that night, those social hosts couldn't keep up with the demand. So, it makes sense that HAL doesn't bring them on for the shorter cruises. Why should they? Just to have them standing around with nothing to do?

 

I think HAL is doing things smart. They keep the activities that are popular and dump the ones that only receive a very, very poor attendance. Helps them to keep their costs down, which makes good sense.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

Most passengers will not even take advantage of the opportunity to improve their onboard experience and upgrade to more legroom in coach, for a relatively nominal fee. Most passengers will not pay the premium for Business/ First Class unless they are using points/frequent flyer status to do so.

I think there's a big difference between paying the "big bucks" for first or business class and upgrading to a premium coach experience that gives you more legroom. I will gladly do this when it is offered, because to me it is the lack of legroom that makes flying a miserable experience.

 

When I am on an airplane for three to six hours, I can deal with the conditions in coach. I don't need bottled water, snacks, and drinks. The one time that I upgraded to first class because I happened to have a chunk of bonus points with American Express, I didn't even order a drink. Who wants to drink at 9:00 o'clock in the morning? Other than having a cup of coffee, I don't even think I accepted the snack that was offered. I just wasn't hungry. But I sure enjoyed the legroom. I also liked being in the first row of the plane and being able to get right off when it was time to disembark.

 

But other than that, a first class experience on a short airline flight is far different than opting for a first class experience on a cruise. On a cruise, you are on that boat for an extended period of time ... usually at least seven days. You can enjoy those first class amenities, such as the concierge service and the Neptune Lounge. But on an airplane, at least as far as I'm concerned, who cares? You're merely using that airplane to get from point A to point B, not to settle in and enjoy the experience. In my case, as long as I have enough legroom, the coach experience is fine. And, that's why I will gladly upgrade to premium economy where it's offered, but I generally would never spend a couple of hundred bucks to upgrade to first class. It's just not worth it to me.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[Love Cruises]

Mountainguy... thanks for all your input. It is really interesting to read how HAL's cruise staff is being run! Hopefully, you will continue posting on Cruise Critic. It's much appreciated!

 

 

Another comment ...

There were no dance hosts on our 26 day Amazon Explorer cruise we just came back from on Dec. 19th. Many ladies traveling alone were very disappointed. They were looking forward to dancing in the lounges.

[jig]

The dance host are history except on the 4 grand voyages. I was just on the Amsterdam for 42 days. 22 + 20. There were no hosts onboard even though a friend of mine was told by HAL that there would be. There were a lot of angry women. The CD heard from all of them, some quite loudly. She said she would give her feedback to HAL but my friend would not travel HAL anymore. There were a lot of others that felt the same.

As far as the staff, they were very nice. There was the DJ Drew and Laurence and Kristen and Party Planner Cassie. They did a wonderful job. We had many Dam Dollar events as well as the Olympics. I don't do trivia or Bingo so can't comment about other things. However the Event Planner we never knew but things were poorly planned ie timing. Such as the deck BBQ on a port day or evening deck party just outside of Antartica when it was frezzing. Or the Christmas event at the exact time we were in Antartica's most beautiful bay.

Things are changing and as someone that likes going on cruises I need there to be cruise lines. If they make no money, bye bye. We are all looking for that great deal not realising that it has to come from somewhere. So they will do what they have to to survive and I will be happy that they are.

 

Jeffrey

[RuthC]

However the Event Planner we never knew but things were poorly planned ie timing. Such as the deck BBQ on a port day or evening deck party just outside of Antartica when it was frezzing. Or the Christmas event at the exact time we were in Antartica's most beautiful bay.

You're kidding. :eek: The Antarctica Experience is supposed to be just that---something that stands alone, separate and apart from the rest of the cruise. It is the highlight of that itinerary and nothing should interfere with it.

Since the Captain and Antarctic experts have Plan A, Plan B, etc, and sometimes have to get to Plan M to make for a meaningful day, there's no way to work around it with other shipboard activities.

I would expect that any activities scheduled while in Antarctica would be poorly attended.