Why only one "Splendor Class" ship?

[*Mach*]

They must have had Spirit floored as we were leaving Vancouver in May. She was doing 24 knots, maybe she got the sport package....:D

 

 

The 22 knots advertised is cruising speed. They will often sail slower, conditions permitting, to reduce fuel consumption.

The ships can run quite a bit faster than cruise speed.... perhaps as fast as 30 knots but the fuel used rises dramatically...

I researched this some time ago for a discussion here about 'flank speed.' The ship in question could nearly double its cruise speed but the fuel burn increased by an amazing 700%!!!!!

:eek:

[iluvdoxies]

I HATED the Splendor--the dome was closed the whole time and it was hot.

 

I really love the Spirit class !

[jimbo5544]

I HATED the Splendor--the dome was closed the whole time and it was hot.

 

I really love the Spirit class !

 

Love it as well (Spirit class). But wouldn't any ship that had closed the dome do the same thing as the Splendor? Matter of fact, think I was on the Spirit and had the same thing occur.

[Essiesmom]

Closing the done creates the greenhouse effect, which was great for passengers on our Mexi-not cruises.

Speed can also be increased by retracting the stabilizers. EM

[jetwet1]

The 22 knots advertised is cruising speed. They will often sail slower, conditions permitting, to reduce fuel consumption.

 

The ships can run quite a bit faster than cruise speed.... perhaps as fast as 30 knots but the fuel used rises dramatically...

 

I researched this some time ago for a discussion here about 'flank speed.' The ship in question could nearly double its cruise speed but the fuel burn increased by an amazing 700%!!!!!

 

:eek:

 

Which ship is that ? The two fastest cruise/ocean liners are the QM2 (cruise speed 30 knots) and the MS Grand Voyager (cruise speed 29.9 knots) and even out of those two the Grand Voyager has the higher top speed, but it's no where near 60 knots, actually it's closer to 40 knots, the QM2's flank speed is 33 knots, not much above her cruising speed.

 

As I said in a post above, once a hull reaches around 26 knots it takes twice the power to add 1 knot of speed, of course you can design hulls to work in many ways, but top speed is not really a concern, ride and fuel consumption at lower speeds are far more important.

 

Now what this really shows is how over engined the Voyager is to give you an idea, QM2 has a GT of 150,000 tons, her engines put out 157,000 hp.

Voyager has a GT of 25,000 tons and her engines put out 51,000hp.

 

So 1/6th the gross tonnage,but only 1/3 the engines, yes she can motor !

 

Boy I am rambling again...Sorry :o

[TexBear]

also wanted to add... (but i know you're quick to reply so don't want to edit) - that a smaller spirit type ship would suit the current business model of carnival...

 

that is, position ships close to home, easy to drive to, all that.

 

it's a lot easier to put a spirit type ship in ports like norfolk, va, the carolinas, bayonne, nj, or even mobile, nola, seattle, the lesser fla ports, etc. - and fill it up every week - than a larger ship like splendor, dream, etc.

 

i wouldn't be surprised at all to see this in the future, but it would also dictate a re-positioning from the mass of miami and other big fla ports.

 

Probably would be nice to have a Carnival ship home-ported in San Francisco too and seasonal sailings from Portland/Astoria, Oregon.

[jetwet1]

Probably would be nice to have a Carnival ship home-ported in San Francisco too and seasonal sailings from Portland/Astoria, Oregon.

 

The problem with that is where does it sail to ?

 

As Carnival and Princess both found out this spring, people have no interest in sailing in the areas they live in, they want to get away, Carnival was offering a 7 day Splendor cruise for $199 pp balcony cabins, the ship still sailed half empty, yes it was short notice, but when your dealing with a catchment area like So Cal filling the Splendor at those rates should be an issue, unless your sailing to ports that nobody wants to go to.

[Shipyard Cruiser]

The problem with that is where does it sail to ?

 

As Carnival and Princess both found out this spring, people have no interest in sailing in the areas they live in, they want to get away, Carnival was offering a 7 day Splendor cruise for $199 pp balcony cabins, the ship still sailed half empty, yes it was short notice, but when your dealing with a catchment area like So Cal filling the Splendor at those rates should be an issue, unless your sailing to ports that nobody wants to go to.

 

I was on one of the Splendor cruses to the Canada and we did not sail half empty.

 

While a lot us paid a low price their were more folks on our May cruise to Canada then our April cruise to Mexico.

 

I think a few cruises to Canada in the sumeer would sell pretty well.

[Essiesmom]

I did a B2B Mexi-Not on Splendor, when prices tanked...But the last two or three of those cruises had prices really soaring. EM

[*Mach*]

Which ship is that ? The two fastest cruise/ocean liners are the QM2 (cruise speed 30 knots) and the MS Grand Voyager (cruise speed 29.9 knots) and even out of those two the Grand Voyager has the higher top speed, but it's no where near 60 knots, actually it's closer to 40 knots, the QM2's flank speed is 33 knots, not much above her cruising speed.

 

As I said in a post above, once a hull reaches around 26 knots it takes twice the power to add 1 knot of speed, of course you can design hulls to work in many ways, but top speed is not really a concern, ride and fuel consumption at lower speeds are far more important.

 

Now what this really shows is how over engined the Voyager is to give you an idea, QM2 has a GT of 150,000 tons, her engines put out 157,000 hp.

Voyager has a GT of 25,000 tons and her engines put out 51,000hp.

 

So 1/6th the gross tonnage,but only 1/3 the engines, yes she can motor !

 

Boy I am rambling again...Sorry :o

 

 

My example was not a cruise ship... it's a naval vessel but a hull is a hull and hydrodynamics work the same regardless of who's paying the tab... cruisers or taxpayers...

The speed I quoted was the vessels cruising speed but because of the available power her FLANK speed was much higher but at a tremendous cost. I was off a bit... flank speed of these Littoral Class warships is 50 knots with a cruise speed of 20 knots...

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/littoral/

[TexBear]

The problem with that is where does it sail to ?

 

As Carnival and Princess both found out this spring, people have no interest in sailing in the areas they live in, they want to get away, Carnival was offering a 7 day Splendor cruise for $199 pp balcony cabins, the ship still sailed half empty, yes it was short notice, but when your dealing with a catchment area like So Cal filling the Splendor at those rates should be an issue, unless your sailing to ports that nobody wants to go to.

 

Carnival and Princess could have 10-day cruises to the Mexican Rivera or extended Alaska cruises from SF. The Bay Area isn't exacty know for a lack of well-to-do residents. Also, sailing from SF beats a 4-6 hour drive to LA/Long Beach!

[jetwet1]

Carnival and Princess could have 10-day cruises to the Mexican Rivera or extended Alaska cruises from SF. The Bay Area isn't exacty know for a lack of well-to-do residents. Also, sailing from SF beats a 4-6 hour drive to LA/Long Beach!

 

Now that I would go for, doesn't Princess have a cruise like that in the summer from SF ?

 

 

My example was not a cruise ship... it's a naval vessel but a hull is a hull and hydrodynamics work the same regardless of who's paying the tab... cruisers or taxpayers...

 

 

Sorry, your post made no mention of it being a naval vessel, yes hulls work the same, kind off, but a hulls shape will determine a lot of things, so no they don't all work in the same way, it comes down to what they are designed to do, of course a way around this is a stepped hull, but I seriously doubt we will ever see one off those on a cruise ship :p

[TexBear]

Now that I would go for, doesn't Princess have a cruise like that in the summer from SF ?

 

I don't know if Princess does. I'm pondering the possibilities of an SF homeport. I think Princess has 14 day round-trip Panama Canal sailings from LA or SF.

[CarnivalPride]

Very interesting thread. Like many, my favorite ship class is the Spirit class. I would not be unhappy at all to have Carnival go back to making that size of ship. Always thought that because it was a different shipbuilder, it would make it harder to do so (as well as to continue to fight the "bigger is better war). Like the points on versatility of where a smaller class of ship can go (Panamax and port wise) as well as easier to fill the ship with passengers as well.

 

Well, Costa has the Luminosa, which has the body and layout of the Spirit Class, but the front and rear ends of the HAL's Vista Class. And it is built by Fincantieri, so I don't think shipbuilder really matters here.

[nybumpkin]

I think Mach was talking about the often rumored Carnival Pinnacle project that apparently has found its way to development hell, right along with "Ghostbusters 3".

 

There was a video that circulated around here awhile ago that was leaked from Fincantieri that showed what some believed was the concept. It was huge, possibly bigger than Oasis. It had a mono-rail running around the exterior of the ship, a huge mountain in the middle of the lido deck, all kinds of weird stuff. Some say that it was not the Pinnacle, just a Fincantieri marketing promo, but we'll never know for sure.

In the words of Monty Python and the Holy Grail, "I'm not dead yet!"

 

Last week on Miracle at the past guest party, CD Josh ("Big Sexy") mentioned Dream and Magic as the next two works in progress, but then went on to mention Pinnacle by name as the next "possible" ship with an ETA of 2014. He was careful to mention that it's not definite, but I was surprised that he even brought it up.

[Savoia]

 

dream was under development, and the dream and magic were on order i believe, before splendor ended up in the carnival fleet.

 

 

Dream was also a Costa build pulled over to Costa. Carnival is looking at several serious issues with their fleet that financial analysts have taken notice..the age of their modern tonnage. Carnival lacks, even with the the re-assignment of the Dream, the desired level of balconied tonnage. They've even resorted to adding balconies onto older ships not equipped to handle balconies..many people who have seen these hull balconies have called it the "Lego Affect".

 

Dream has retained the original Costa lay out..fitted out physically and with ammentities for the American market. Remember..Joe Farcus designs both Costa and Carnival and exchangibility within the brands has been a focus in the past and now we see it being used. The Dream may infact have some interesting additions to her design...but the number of similarities is over whelming from other ships. As an avid cruiser Carnival still leaves me wanting..

[jimbo5544]

Dream was also a Costa build pulled over to Costa. Carnival is looking at several serious issues with their fleet that financial analysts have taken notice..the age of their modern tonnage. Carnival lacks, even with the the re-assignment of the Dream, the desired level of balconied tonnage. They've even resorted to adding balconies onto older ships not equipped to handle balconies..many people who have seen these hull balconies have called it the "Lego Affect".

 

Dream has retained the original Costa lay out..fitted out physically and with ammentities for the American market. Remember..Joe Farcus designs both Costa and Carnival and exchangibility within the brands has been a focus in the past and now we see it being used. The Dream may infact have some interesting additions to her design...but the number of similarities is over whelming from other ships. As an avid cruiser Carnival still leaves me wanting..

 

It seems clear to me that they are committed to the Fantasy class by adding the balconies to at least some of the ships and the extensive refurb. The other point I would make is they continue to want to further their existing ship image wile making improvements (Splendor, Dream, Magic etc.). My guess is that is by design, not default. I for one applaud that. Whether they are similar to Costa, or MSC, or any other build is really not of interest.

[Savoia]

It seems clear to me that they are committed to the Fantasy class

 

 

Of course Mr. Arison is committed to the Fantasy Class! He can either Lego balconies onto the hull of these ships (it will be interesting in bad weather to see how they fare) or build a new, modern ship with the modern balconies people expect....the lego approach is far cheaper. These ships also have far fewer non hull suites as well..another defieciency in their design given what the market is offering now.

 

Carnival has a problem which they are trying to address in an economy that leaves them with few financially viable opportunities. Pulling the Dream away from Costa was a decision primarily made to modernize the Carnival fleet as a whole. While it helps with several issues they are facing in the end the interior results are just more of the same...innovation on a budget which pushes me as a 2-3 time a year cruiser away from anything Carnival.

[jetwet1]

Exactly, it has reached a point where we will not even consider a cabin that does not have a balcony, while right now we are limited to a couple of cruises a year that will change in time.