Protests in French St. Martin

Is anyone else concerned about the protests in St. Martin?

We will be there in 2 weeks and a cruiser on our roll call has received the following email from the US Embassy...

"United States Embassy in Bridgetown, Barbados

Security Message for U.S. Citizens: Protests in French St. Martin

October 22, 2015

The U.S. Embassy to Barbados and the Eastern Caribbean has received reports of protests on French St. Martin and therefore alerts U.S. citizens to take caution if traveling in or to the island.

The U.S. Embassy has received reports that protesters in St. Martin have shut down all road access to the city of Marigot and to Grand Case Airport. Protesters have reportedly threatened violence if their demands are not met.

Even demonstrations intended to be peaceful can turn confrontational and escalate into violence without warning. Avoid areas of demonstrations, and exercise caution if in the vicinity of any large gatherings, protests, or demonstrations."

Is anyone hearing anything about this?

__________________

It is my understanding that the protesters and the elected officials of both the Collectivity and the Republic came to an agreement late last evening (evening of October 22), and the demonstrations have ended.

The new zoning regulations at the heart of the dispute are being reconsidered, and some government actions have been reversed.

Protesters have reportedly threatened violence if their demands are not met.

I don't know where this is "reportedly" from, since it doesn't cite any source, but the locals don't seem to be aware of any such threats.

We are totally clueless! This is the first we have heard about this.

Addition info would be appreciated.

I believe this is the source.

http://barbados.usembassy.gov/pr91124.html

From the island newspaper (Dutch side) The Daily Herald.

<snip>

There was one unconfirmed report of a confrontation caused by Gendarmes trying to remove a barricade and another incident where a frustrated motorist with children in the car forced his way through a barricade, almost killing the people guarding the barricade.

gary

Thanks for the update. Hate all of this sort of thing is happening.

Found that there had been a proactive move for visitors.

See article here.

Port St. Maarten Management took a number of measures as a pro-active approach to ensure that the approximately 10,000 cruise passengers in town today-Thursday, enjoyed their stay on the island without any discomfort. The vessels in port today were: Celebrity Summit, Arcadia, Eurodam and Freedom of the Seas.

The action was prompted due to a planned demonstration in Marigot with possible road blocks on the French side of the island.

gary

I don't know where this is "reportedly" from, since it doesn't cite any source, but the locals don't seem to be aware of any such threats.

I did cite a source - it was "reportedly" from the US Embassy via email. Several people who renewed their passports received these emails. And the locals most certainly do know of these threats and are fully aware of the impact it could have on their livelihood with Cruise Passengers. I emailed Bernard's Tours, who we are booked with in 2 weeks, regarding the situation.

This was his response:

"Have no fear i can guarantee one hundred percent nothing will happen and the strike is over. They was asking that Government to reduce taxes and it has been settle, so have no fear...Bernard"

From the island newspaper (Dutch side) The Daily Herald.

 

<snip>

 

There was one unconfirmed report of a confrontation caused by Gendarmes trying to remove a barricade and another incident where a frustrated motorist with children in the car forced his way through a barricade, almost killing the people guarding the barricade.

 

gary

Good article - it DOES mention that there was a barricade at Oyster Pond, which I'm fairly certain, Oyster Pond is one of the brief stops on our Island Tour with Bernards. Seems everything has been resolved and hopefully so!! This article in their Daily Herald is further proof that the locals were indeed aware as it was in their Daily newspaper. Glad the problems seem to be resolved.

I did cite a source - it was "reportedly" from the US Embassy via email. Several people who renewed their passports received these emails. And the locals most certainly do know of these threats and are fully aware of the impact it could have on their livelihood with Cruise Passengers. I emailed Bernard's Tours, who we are booked with in 2 weeks, regarding the situation.

 

This was his response:

 

"Have no fear i can guarantee one hundred percent nothing will happen and the strike is over. They was asking that Government to reduce taxes and it has been settle, so have no fear...Bernard"

Your comment that "the locals most certainly do know of these threats and are fully aware of the impact it could have on their livelihood with Cruise Passengers" and then you quote Bernard who is in the cruise passenger game.

Knowing the island over the years I would tend to agree that many folks especially those on the Dutch side would not know about this issue. It's a small island yes, but there is a distinct Dutch side and French side to those that live there. Just because something is in the news or the newspaper does not mean that the residents are aware of it. I don't read the local newspaper here at home and by the decrease in sales of newspapers over the years I don't think that I am the only one.

I often learn of things happening on the French side and fill in or ask people on the Dutch side about their knowledge of it and they have no idea. I'm speaking of road construction, hurricane damage and the like. We go out and visit and spend money on both sides of the island nearly everyday of a vacation but many of the locals do not from my knowledge over many years of visiting.

I don't know where this is "reportedly" from, since it doesn't cite any source, but the locals don't seem to be aware of any such threats.

I did cite a source - it was "reportedly" from the US Embassy via email. Several people who renewed their passports received these emails. And the locals most certainly do know of these threats and are fully aware of the impact it could have on their livelihood with Cruise Passengers. I emailed Bernard's Tours, who we are booked with in 2 weeks, regarding the situation.

 

This was his response:

 

"Have no fear i can guarantee one hundred percent nothing will happen and the strike is over. They was asking that Government to reduce taxes and it has been settle, so have no fear...Bernard"

 

What I meant was that the US Embassy in Barbados, who used the word "reportedly", did not cite a source for their report. I expect that it was diplomatic boilerplate from the French government. Demonstrations, including disruptive civil disobedience, are fairly common in France. It can be very inconvenient, but it's rarely dangerous.

The issues were new land use restrictions; an attempt to invalidate some land titles held for generations by islanders, requiring the landowners to "buy" their own land again; and a plan that would allow high-rise apartment blocks in Marigot without addressing the already-overstressed sewer infrastructure.

Many locals are upset by short notice of these changes; part of a general dissatisfaction with local government responsiveness. Some don't like the fact that the Collectivity's vice president is also its Senator in the French parliament, which some call a conflict with the law. There are also some fairly predictable political, class, race, and language disputes.

According to my friends who live near Marigot, these are the issues that came to a breaking point. The demonstrators initially blocked roads leading to Marigot and Grand Case. Then they also blocked border crossings, although for most of the demonstration, there was a crossing near the airport that remained open. The parties to the disputes came to an agreement; some of the land restrictions have been retracted, and political life will go on, to resolve the other issues, or not.

My source is an email conversation with a French couple who retired to a cottage near Marigot about three years ago. So, like the embassy's statement and Bernard's email response, it represents their own point of view on the situation.

We know of it here in the states. Seriously, with internet, cellphone, TV, newspaper outlets and news, I find it very difficult to believe that for most anyway (not a few people here and there that "don't read newspapers") that people that live on that small island are unaware. Also, with the population, which I believe to be under 80,000 for the entire Island (BOTH SIDES) (could be wrong, for those that want to jump all over me), if there were protests blocking roads to such busy places as Marigot, I'm FAIRLY CERTAIN that most people that live on the island are aware.

I am a concerned cruiser,and all I did was ask. If you don't have an answer, keep scrolling. When something comes from the government, (which nothing usually does) I take it seriously. All I did was ask if anyone was hearing what we were hearing. My thread didn't need to get hijacked by people trying to tell me that what I HEARD wasn't based on fact. Jeez. Thanks for rambling on and yet I still don't have an answer. Thanks.

What I meant was that the US Embassy in Barbados, who used the word "reportedly", did not cite a source for their report. I expect that it was diplomatic boilerplate from the French government. Demonstrations, including disruptive civil disobedience, are fairly common in France. It can be very inconvenient, but it's rarely dangerous.

 

The issues were new land use restrictions; an attempt to invalidate some land titles held for generations by islanders, requiring the landowners to "buy" their own land again; and a plan that would allow high-rise apartment blocks in Marigot without addressing the already-overstressed sewer infrastructure.

 

Many locals are upset by short notice of these changes; part of a general dissatisfaction with local government responsiveness. Some don't like the fact that the Collectivity's vice president is also its Senator in the French parliament, which some call a conflict with the law. There are also some fairly predictable political, class, race, and language disputes.

 

According to my friends who live near Marigot, these are the issues that came to a breaking point. The demonstrators initially blocked roads leading to Marigot and Grand Case. Then they also blocked border crossings, although for most of the demonstration, there was a crossing near the airport that remained open. The parties to the disputes came to an agreement; some of the land restrictions have been retracted, and political life will go on, to resolve the other issues, or not.

 

My source is an email conversation with a French couple who retired to a cottage near Marigot about three years ago. So, like the embassy's statement and Bernard's email response, it represents their own point of view on the situation.

Thank you Blue Shark - when the UNITED STATES Embassy sees fit to put out a warning, I'm not going to ignore it. My concern was that clearly one of the local articles states that the road to Marigot (and only road to it, if i'm not mistaken)was where one of these demonstrations and protests took place, blocking access to the market. My excursion includes a stop at Marigot - therefore, you see my concern.

Thanks for the update.

We are members of a national travel club, and they always post any alerts or warnings when traveling on their web page.

They cover anywhere from USA to WHEREVER.

We check before we travel.

Safe travels.

Thank you Blue Shark - when the UNITED STATES Embassy sees fit to put out a warning, I'm not going to ignore it. My concern was that clearly one of the local articles states that the road to Marigot (and only road to it, if i'm not mistaken)was where one of these demonstrations and protests took place, blocking access to the market. My excursion includes a stop at Marigot - therefore, you see my concern.

Actually, there are several roads to Marigot: coming in from Sandy Ground, coming up from Cole Bay, and down from Grand Case.

Your comment that "the locals most certainly do know of these threats and are fully aware of the impact it could have on their livelihood with Cruise Passengers" and then you quote Bernard who is in the cruise passenger game.

 

Knowing the island over the years I would tend to agree that many folks especially those on the Dutch side would not know about this issue. It's a small island yes, but there is a distinct Dutch side and French side to those that live there. Just because something is in the news or the newspaper does not mean that the residents are aware of it. I don't read the local newspaper here at home and by the decrease in sales of newspapers over the years I don't think that I am the only one.

 

I often learn of things happening on the French side and fill in or ask people on the Dutch side about their knowledge of it and they have no idea. I'm speaking of road construction, hurricane damage and the like. We go out and visit and spend money on both sides of the island nearly everyday of a vacation but many of the locals do not from my knowledge over many years of visiting.

karysa is absolutely spot on correct with this.

Even though it is a small island, residents of the Dutch side are often completely unaware of what is occurring on the French side, and sometimes just elsewhere on their side of the island.

I am constantly amazed when visiting with friends (residents) on the island that I find that I know much more about what is going on on the French side and often what is happening with their own Dutch-side government than they are aware of.

This comes from my chatting with island friends and following the island news from both sides.

Bernard is a personal friend. I helped him get his tour business started, back in 2007 or so. Of course he would talk up his tours, as would all tour operators, but he was 100% correct in his quoted statement, the protest had ended by the time he replied.

gary

p.s. Yes, of course, there at least three entrances into Marigot.

We know of it here in the states. Seriously, with internet, cellphone, TV, newspaper outlets and news, I find it very difficult to believe that for most anyway (not a few people here and there that "don't read newspapers") that people that live on that small island are unaware. Also, with the population, which I believe to be under 80,000 for the entire Island (BOTH SIDES) (could be wrong, for those that want to jump all over me), if there were protests blocking roads to such busy places as Marigot, I'm FAIRLY CERTAIN that most people that live on the island are aware.

 

I am a concerned cruiser,and all I did was ask. If you don't have an answer, keep scrolling. When something comes from the government, (which nothing usually does) I take it seriously. All I did was ask if anyone was hearing what we were hearing. My thread didn't need to get hijacked by people trying to tell me that what I HEARD wasn't based on fact. Jeez. Thanks for rambling on and yet I still don't have an answer. Thanks.

St. Maarten is not the states and to state that you are "FAIRLY CERTAIN that MOST people that live on the island are aware" that the roads into and out of Marigot were blocked for a day is laughable to someone who visits this island often.

Thanks for posting what you found out. I think you got good answers. Gary posted the newspaper article so I'm not sure why you are so upset.

I will be on the island for vacation starting on November 8th so if I can't get to Serafina's in Marigot to get my iced coffee and pastries I will post and share what I find out.

One minute earlier. :)

gary

One minute earlier. :)

 

gary

Maybe she will believe you. I know that I do.:D

Thanks. :)

gary

I was just thinking. We have had labour disputes in Canada, as has the US. Does anyone ever remember a protest in either one of these countries similar to the one in St. Maarten ever being on another countries travel advisory page or written up as a warning from another countries embassy? Remember this protest involved road blocks not violence so compare apples to apples please.

Thank you for posting this thread and the articles- I have been unable to find anything about this incident on the internet until now!

I just want to leave my perspective, as a cruiser who was on the island on Thursday, 10/22. We tried to catch a cab to Marigot from the port at the taxi stand, and were told "Marigot is closed." Thought they were joking at first, because how can a city be closed? Then we asked someone else and were told, no, nobody can cross into the French side today, there is a strike. We were quite disappointed, and sort of in disbelief.

Later, while taking cabs to and from Maho Beach, our drivers were listening to local news radio. It was a show where people call in, and the locals seemed to be quite riled up, including the drivers themselves. By riled up I don't mean violent, we were never worried about any protests or incidents. Just passionate and vocal. We got the impression that it would not come to an agreement quickly and that the barricades would be up longer than a day.

Reading this article, it seems that we may have been able to find a driver to take us elsewhere in St Martin, but we had the impression that all routes across the border were barricaded. Plus, we did not want it to escalate, and get stuck on the wrong side :eek: Our drivers were talking on the radio about tourists not wanting to leave Orient Beach, and risking missing their ship, and passengers coming in from Princess Juliana possibly missing flights out of Grand Case.

I'm happy to see they have come to a resolution for the time being, but we were very disappointed to not get to see the French side :( Oh well, we'll just have to go back!

Thank you for posting this thread and the articles- I have been unable to find anything about this incident on the internet until now!

 

I just want to leave my perspective, as a cruiser who was on the island on Thursday, 10/22. We tried to catch a cab to Marigot from the port at the taxi stand, and were told "Marigot is closed." Thought they were joking at first, because how can a city be closed? Then we asked someone else and were told, no, nobody can cross into the French side today, there is a strike. We were quite disappointed, and sort of in disbelief.

 

Later, while taking cabs to and from Maho Beach, our drivers were listening to local news radio. It was a show where people call in, and the locals seemed to be quite riled up, including the drivers themselves. By riled up I don't mean violent, we were never worried about any protests or incidents. Just passionate and vocal. We got the impression that it would not come to an agreement quickly and that the barricades would be up longer than a day.

 

Reading this article, it seems that we may have been able to find a driver to take us elsewhere in St Martin, but we had the impression that all routes across the border were barricaded. Plus, we did not want it to escalate, and get stuck on the wrong side :eek: Our drivers were talking on the radio about tourists not wanting to leave Orient Beach, and risking missing their ship, and passengers coming in from Princess Juliana possibly missing flights out of Grand Case.

 

I'm happy to see they have come to a resolution for the time being, but we were very disappointed to not get to see the French side :( Oh well, we'll just have to go back!

I like your attitude. When we couldn't go up in a float plane in Alaska that is exactly what DH said.:)

I would not have gone near that protest either. Taxi drivers are a wealth of information as they have to be aware of the goings on.

The good news is that we did not hear of any incidents with cruisers.

I wish our governments dispute with the teachers was dealt with this swiftly. :)

Did you say that folks were flying into PJ airport and connecting through GC airport. Now that would have been unfortunate.

The article that I linked to back in post #8 in this thread mentions that all the 'stakeholders', which would have included local travel related organizations, and specifically the 'cruise vessels' were notified of the demonstrations and possible actions.

gary