Armed Guards on Board

During the QM2's 4th of July sail there were armed National Guard troops on board during the New York harbour portions of the cruise. This may have been specifically because of the 4th of July nature of this particular cruise or perhaps they are always on when the QM2 sails into New York, I do not know. In light of yesterday's terrible event in London and of course 9/11 is this something that you think we will be seeing more of? Have you seen armed guards on a cruise ship, military or otherwise? How would this effect the vacation experience for you?

So far we have never seen any armed guards on a cruise ship.

But you never know.

Never seen them on any HAL ship, but the day they do have them is the day we will stop sailing. :(

 

Sad what this world is coming to. :(

esme

 

Perhaps you have not seen them, but they are there, on occasion, not always uniformed nor obviously armed.

 

Have you stopped flying because there might be an Air Marshal on board? They are armed, but in plain-clothes (aka mufti).

I have been led to believe that security is on each ship, but "invisible" as noted above. I would guess the armed guards were because of the holiday (remember that the last attack on America had a date connection) and being NYC harbor. While I hate to think it would come to that, I'm sure I could adjust to having uniformed, armed guards on board. They just might make some of the "offspring of parents" to think twice about some of their behaviors!

I think the combo of being NYC, a huge famous ship, this holiday of all holidays, and who knows what kind of rumors of potential trouble, all could easily attribute to placing a few armed troops on board while the ship was in the harbor.

 

I think we all can pick and choose how much risk we are willing to assume and make our own decisions as to how cautious we wish to be in our travels. An Air Marshal on any plane is not enough to get me flying again and I would think twice before being in certain ports on certain holidays.

I think it is more of the concept that if we ever reach the point where obviously armed guards patrolling the aisles of a plane, bus or train or the decks of a ship are required, then we have a problem.

Kathy

 

That sound very much like the "ostrich theory".

 

Does the concept of plain-clothes armed security bother you, or is it just the "obvioously armed" that you have a problem with?

 

I would submit that even before 9-11, there were armed security about - not always obvious!

I think it's the obviously patrolling the streets type of armed guards that I associate with a police state or very crime ridden areas. Or maybe I wish I could stick my head in the sand and go back to a simpler time.

 

My father was a aerospace engineer at an Air Force Wind Tunnel research facility, so armed guards at gates do not bother me. I grew up with it. Or the idea that there are undercover/plain clothes armed guards on planes, boats, trains really bother me either.

 

But if we have to have am armed guard on every corner (so to speak) just to ensure our safety, then I do have a problem. I am probably rambling, but it's late Friday afternoon and my brain is fried.

Many of us would like to go back to simpler times - but it ain't gonna happen.

 

It is rather like the people who think the British Police are all still unarmed. It just doesn't fit the facts of today's world. You might not see the weapons, but they are available when needed.

 

I remember when many of the police in larger US cities wore frock coats, and you couldn't see their sidearms - but they were armed!

 

We live in a different, and often disturbing world.

But if we have to have am armed guard on every corner (so to speak) just to ensure our safety, then I do have a problem.

 

There isn't, and likely will not ever be, a NEED to have an armed guard on every corner to ensure safety...the purpose of visibly-armed guards is to ensure peace-of-mind for people who cannot assuage the incremental risk of a random incident and carry on with their lives without panic.

 

We are unfortunately a country that panics when something happens, because we have too long escaped problems that affect us on our own turf, and have grown into a media-frenzied society that over-hypes and sensationalizes news events. We have become so sensitized in our attempts to over-correct and alter our entire societal process (political-correctness which tells us the previous hundreds of years of knowledge on how to raise children, communicate with others, and diagnose problems was all wrong and must be changed), and so encumbered with the burden of newly-named syndromes and disorders to excuse what had previously required our own responsibility, that we seem incapable of dealing with any risk at all, no matter how infantesimal.

 

So when a terror attack occurs, few calculate the extremely minute risk that they themselves will fall victim to such a random act (one has as great a chance of winning the lottery...several times) and carry on with normalcy (an action which would actually decrease both the incidence and impact of terrorism). The public demands to know who is at fault when an attack occurs - who missed the signs, or failed to stop the attack; what additional security is necessary to prevent another such incident, etc. But the simple answer is that the terrorists are at fault, and no amount of security can prevent another terrorist action. Terrorism has thrived for thousands of years because it is an action executed by the most simplistic and undetectable of beings - an individual - and it feeds and grows on fear and hysteria. So rather than finding someone in our own society to blame for letting it happen, and further restricting our own freedoms by encumbering ourselves with layers of security...we need to deprive terrorism of what it needs most - fear.

 

Hopefully this will be realized at some point - and we won't have to see armed security on every corner...at least once we realize that it offers not an ounce of protection, but only some visual placebo for those not able to cope with adversity.

 

Well, at least that's my opinion!

I'm surprised that there were members of the US armed forces on board guarding a foreign flag cruise liner while she was under way. I wonder when and how they came aboard....and how they disembarked....all this if she was underway. If she was at the pier, I can better understand their presence.

 

Thanks for the heads up.

According to CruiseCAl, the QM2 didn't dock in NYC until 7:30 AM on the 5th...

 

zackiedawg: Great post, couldn't agree more.

In March of 2003 (shortly after we attacked Iraq), the nation was at Orange alert and the Zaandam was escorted out of the harbor at Port Canaveral by several small coast guard vessels. On board the vessels were men armed with machine guns on one arm, and frantically waving to the passengers with their other hand. From the alert that the staff in the Ocean bar showed at the time, this was clearly not a normal, every day occurence.

 

Hopefully we will, at some time in the future, feel that we no longer have to go to such extreme measure to try to prevent terrorism. I, too, agree with Zackiedawg.

I don't believe OP was saying that the QM2 was in NYC on the exact day of the holiday, but he was talking about the visit to NYC harbor portion of what was being called the QM2's 4th of July Cruise because it encompassed the 4th holiday period. That's the way I read it.

Originally Posted by zackiedawg Quote:

 

"We are unfortunately a country that panics when something happens"

 

I totally disagree with you. We don't panic;we do what has to be done. I live in NYC. I saw no evidence of panic following Sept. 11, 2001. I saw a national that picked itself up and did what needed to be done. I've seen far more evidence of a police state in places like Cancun, Mexico and Rome, Italy. We didn't panic at Pearl Harbor; we didn't panic in Oklahoma City and we still don't panic in New York City.

You can have a police state without ever seeing an armed soldier on any street corner. That's usually the last sign you'll see.

If you pay attention to docking, in most ports you will see the harbor master and his crew come on to the ship to bring it into dock. Again when leaving, the harbor master and crew are on board until the ship is far enough from the dock. They arrive and are picked up by a small boat.

 

We watched them last year in Jamaica and Cozomel. In NY, the harbor patrol is monitored by the coast guard - a branch of the American Armed Forces.

. .. we need to deprive terrorism of what it needs most - fear . . . Well, at least that's my opinion!

 

Thanks for a thoughtful essay. It's worth rereading. susan.

You can have a police state without ever seeing an armed soldier on any street corner. That's usually the last sign you'll see.

 

Good point.

If you pay attention to docking, in most ports you will see the harbor master and his crew come on to the ship to bring it into dock.

Actually, this is a harbor pilot and not the master. The harbor patrols have always escorted the ships we've been on in and out of U.S. ports.

It was pretty interesting to watch last year. It isn't easy to get from the small boat into the little door they open on the ship. The water was a little rough in Jamaica and we thought a couple of them were going swimming. Apparently they are much more coordinated than I am, I would have been in the water for sure.

have never seen an armed or uniformed security force on any hal ship with the exception of meeting the master at arms at a social function.

 

on our celebrity cruise there seemed to be a lot of staff moving around and at the entrance to the ship at ports-------------they all wore batges stating "security" but were unable to tell if they were armed-i personally doubt it

Never seen them on any HAL ship, but the day they do have them is the day we will stop sailing. :(

 

Sad what this world is coming to. :(

 

A somewhat defeatist attitude I'd say.

I most certainly don't want to see armed guards on board a cruise ship but if that's what it takes to ensure my safety, I'll go with it. I did not welcome armed guards at US airports but they are there..............in this 2005 year it seems it be the norm

Have never seen more than normal security on ocean-going cruise ships. However, I was startled on a Nile cruise when a soldier with rifle over his shoulder popped up onto the top deck from an outside ladder I had never noticed.