Cap_D

@kwokpot thanks for sharing the pics. I have never sailed on a non-Edge class Celebrity ship. I personally like bright and energetic too, and like how the flow of the ship interior works. (The new ships plus the 2022 version of the Retreat is what got us to pay attention to cruising during the pandemic. Endless videos and then reading this board.). And, I know from your posts you've got attention to detail. So, I'm curious is the Michaels lounge carpet design seen in other places on the ship? The Edge class Retreat lounge carpet is, of course, in the staterooms.

Ditto @DaKahuna My hotel price example is based on a large online travel agent network. Not big box store or direct from Marriott/Ritz. Dates and such may impact the amount. But, one point is something nice on land with hundreds or a thousand others (maybe not 3k) gets close to the SS price per day, once dining out is factored in and other expenses, and one still has to line up at Starbucks or obtain lounge access for coffee, find a reservation, and so on. The items Celebrity took away coupled with advance booking with fickle offerings, inherent limitations to menus and other quirks of what is available, makes it easier to consider the land stuff (that can be booked the day of or weeks out, not months/years) or the non-Retreat.* *Presumes OVC and MDR not gutted (again), and that they are on the upswing. If not.... That's a different thread.... or time. Have to work today.

PS to my post above, it's @JDPCruisers comment about the out years that makes sense, too. The lack of real benefits or connection that makes the SS or Retreat something that's a room play at this point. Couples especially have other choices for elevated experiences as compared to families that are left with the other ships within a ship, and DCL. Royal at 7k people, and just as messed up or or worse suite ship within a ship experiences (when it's even available), doesn't compare, in my view. And, now counter to everything, a lot of what we're talking about is ease of access and value (and even some places where marginally improvements could make a big difference). But, price out a resort, and factor in some of the inconveniences and variable weather that can't be steered around, etc. and a cruise can still appear to be a good overall experience. At various south Florida Ritz Carlton resorts for a basic room (SS equivalent) over the holiday break are at best $750 / night (most are over 1k a night) with breakfast and small credit, not enough to cover or including cost of drinks, lunch, dinner, entertainment, lobby shop for snacks, rental car, etc. No butler, no included room service (or just a flat delivery fee) and find your own coffee or in room Nespresso, mini bar costs, and other costs. Probably wouldn't wait an extraordinary amount of time for lunch, and may not run into a 2 hour window to have it in or pivot to a backup. All food would be cooked to order, and not just based on venue or a special request.

This seems to be the consensus experience of those that have been in SS and non-Retreat on Edge class. While not evident from the reports (and they can speak for themselves), the lack of included OBC (to cover self obtained basics, like food to make up for sundeck delays), included gratuities, declining or sparse service in Retreat areas, including the lack of the butler, frazzled room attendant, etc, do not help matters. If food were to decline in the MDR and be offset by Luminae or included speciality dining (whether included or with OBC), then maybe there's a case to be made. So, with that said, it is Luminae, and a few extra square feet in a room and balcony that are the hard differences. To those staying in the so called upper suites, I'm hard pressed to see the value unless you were to get dedicated service throughout the ship, including the Retreat sundeck, truly reserved seats at shows you are able to get to, Luminae with USDA prime cuts, etc or not pay the current high rates. The butler would really need to be with you outside the room envelope and the tethered phone to get the value, in my view. I'd be demanding a mobile like they have to get service on demand for 20k / 2k + per day, or more and up. (The 20k is a stab at the low end from old bookings). The SS cutbacks and that Retreat experience, in my view also calls into question the entire Retreat pricing structure vs services. They don't drive me to the bigger room and the faux amenities. The CS has a barely separate sleeping area (and still same room service breakfast), and the upper suites are a lot of space, yet still at the mercy of the staffing levels, and quality of food and such of the rest of the ship. In other words on a port day, one can go to shore and dine at beach club x / local watering hole, wait it out on the Retreat Deck with the SS passenger, or perhaps hang in the room and maybe get higher quality room service based on the butler. That seems close to the same as the SS customer with the exception of a dedicated food runner. Unlimited specialities like rooftop grill or fine cut at night isn't enough to make up for waiting an hour or more for a 5 item lunch menu, waiting for drinks, or having to go to OVC for ice cream or anything else that is the same for everyone. Those other venues are open to anyone, and the cost has been covered by the included OBC (for the night one needed a change from Luminae) or incrementally is not a lot. Of course, if one likes it, then great; and if it was offered, a good deal, etc. more space and marginally more services is a plus. Convenience is an important part of a vacation. And, so there no reason anyone shouldn't do a suite if they want one, but it's hard to fathom it being demonstrably better in every way that it would need to be to make up for general shortcomings anyone can experience, or, more positively said, the elevated mass experience of the rest of the ship, including Retreat. The caveat being I'm of the mind that one should expect the same degree of service and quality when a certain level is purchased as advertised, like the Retreat and not that larger rooms or higher cost rooms should get better service. No one wants to wait in line, be caught in a jam for lunch, sit in the last row, have to search for morning coffee, etc.

👍 The best scenario for food on the Retreat deck is probably ordering early and extra, which we did on Apex after my wife and child went on a shore excursion and texted me from the shore before boarding their return tender. I was camped out doing work from the sundeck bar. The timing worked great and everyone agreed their burgers were as good as the reputation (crust was memorable), but so was the fresh guacamole at the OVC on Mexican lunch day when they ran of corn chips and seemed to on the fly fry up their stock of flour tortillas to compensate. (So really hoping Celebrity keeps up quality at lunch in the OVC, as we rarely see reports of fresh non processed food from the other mass market lines - and we cant eat the burger or a composed lunch every day). Nothing we don't all realize here, but the neat thing is for you and @Norwaylady everything about your respective trips except the fare type and rooms were equal for comparison purposes. Same ships, crew, just as crowded, etc. You even had the small porthole balcony (I hope I'm not confusing my trip reports), so the SS balcony isn't entirely different. That being said, wow, what great trips you've had and thanks for sharing your time and observations.

The service issues on the sundeck may not be growing pains. We've had delayed, raw burgers, and then more delay for items to be fixed. A trip to Mast Grill was a snack at one point during that ordeal. Considering the company wants to save money, the wait time may not be a concern. Yet, it would be nice if they gave Retreat guests a voucher for the Bistro, a clear way to order room service (a different set of food runners), or decent means to do takeout from the the OVC. The cost of Retreat is incremental based on sea days and port days with some allowance for lunch, so when there are long waits there is some aspect for paying for something one can't access, in addition to the inconvenience. The hours of the other venues don't help either.

I am interested in this one, too. We often had to ask on Apex last March/April. Occasionally we would come across a single bottle that may have been an extra from when someone else asked. It appears the soda selection was stocked with European versions, e.g., Coke Light. Will be interesting to see how long those supplies last until they restock at FLL. (I think some of the frozen fries last until the end of the Caribbean season given the labeling on the bags.). On the Retreat sundeck are there grab and go canned and bottled drinks in carts or on the bar? One of the YT videos I saw showed a cart near the bar during the first sailing - but only for a second and it may have been for restocking. Grab and go could help avoid lines for the basics at the sundeck bar, which on Edge and Apex spill over into the pathway. Most everyone has some type of drink package that would cover the items.

Happy birthday, Jim! Thanks for sharing. Nice to see this video, and also a reminder of how the Celebrity CD is a bit unique among the bigger cruise lines. I hope that doesn't change. Sure they will do fun and games, and make themselves the focus of jokes. Yet, they are bit elevated, stand ins for the passengers, etc. (and do behind the scenes work with the entertainment scheduling and such that utilizes the ship). The observation is coupled with my reading of Google news served articles about the mid-contract resignation of a Carnival CD, Cookie. And, the comments were insightful as some book, in part, based on the CD. It's not an easy job.

Unfortunate. The Apex pizza was better compared to Edge too. Someone mentioned, I think who was a member of the crew on Apex that posted around February 2023, that they had been trained on adjustments to dough handling and oven temp or length of baking. The made to order results was praiseworthy.

The Annex space appears to be the space that was formerly a Captains Club "lounge," although we never saw anyone in it other than a crew member.

That definitely a valid concern. In March on Apex the wait for drinks in the Retreat lounge was hit or miss, and that's with the bar in place of the next cruise desks that are on Edge (and not removed on the dry dock), and before the butler firings. The space generally has a few bottlenecks, and there are a few places to sit that would allow someone to not see lines forming or people navigating around each other. Generally Retreat rooms have been sold out or near full on most sailings, so demand is probably even most sailings. There's also some comments on this topic among the recent posts in the thread on @Norwaylady's world cruise, but you may have seen those already (hard to keep track today or all the conversations taking place. Also, in the new Ascent live report it was mentioned by @lhsail that martini bartender and entertainer Rendy was headed to Edge presumably to help train or add to their staffing. I would think the elimination of butler service probably adds to in person demand in the lounge for any number of requests and questions.

If it's a middle tier, i think this ostensibly creates a path for Celebrity to get a few additional dollars from passengers that may not want the premium package and hedge with a middle package, yet without Celebrity having to actually provide more product. Said differently, to those that purchase good luck getting and identifying the items that fall between the classic and premium offering. It may be a lot of work. Consumption will be what it is, but the right offerings and access/time seems to be increasingly the gating factor as to whether someone gets their money's worth and comes out even or ahead. This will just add to confusion pre and post purchase. Our own experience is limited, but even with unlimited possibilities when we had the premium package that came with the Retreat we didn't feel we got our money's worth from the drink package. My wife, child, and myself found ourselves with mixed outcomes with wait times, when ordering, in line at the Cafe Bacios trying to explain blended frozen espresso drinks (the basis for a lot of Starbucks sales), or bars that didn't have our desired spirit. And, our sailings were not at full capacity and before cutbacks.

Thanks for the response. We heard on the thread about the Edge there could be some need for more staff, and so on. Nice to hear they do work on these issues, and use their superstars. @Georgia_Peaches I hope you're enjoying the new ship smell. Sorry for the sidebar. Looking forward to your report, and observations ... Not only is this the actual maiden cruise with passengers, but also a Thanksgiving cruise, and your vacation. Thanks for sharing.

@lhsail does this mean Rendy does training? I've always assumed that is what goes on during the TAs without passengers before the press and revenue cruises, and obviously periodically as new crew join. One Disney DCL doc on streaming had the crew putting down carpet and other decor leading up to the new ship arriving in Florida (about a year ago), and Chris Wong, a casino host, on YouTube showed his Royal Caribbean crew colleagues installing and removing items on a ship during the dry dock.

Fully agree. You articulated the drawbacks very well. It's kind of a pretend lounge. The lounge is missing something even compared to a hotel or airport lounge and somewhat limited by it's configuration. It's also not quite as good in meeting ones snack needs as an airport lounge as the "snack" items (aka junk food) is missing. No candy, bar mix, hard pretzels, etc, and the nuts are only out for a limited time. We found ourselves still needing to leave the Retreat for certain things throughout the day and miss out on convenience. E.g., iced coffee drinks, ice cream, food when nothing was out. One also could try, but ordering from the room service or sundeck menu is not encouraged (not sure about cooler sailings, but haven't seen anyone with a burger in pictures from Iceland, and have never seen heaters in pictures from those cruises). It also is not big enough for everyone that wants to use it on some days, which kind of makes it a gamble.

@Jim_Iain what site do you use for airline price tracking? Somewhere pages ago you mentioned your strategy. Many thanks already, for such a wonderful thread. Best to you and Iain.

No carpet in the guest rooms at Hyatt Centric, which has friendly staff, and a nice restaurant with good service. The guest floor hallways do have low pile carpet. The lobby does not have carpet. The Riverside guest rooms and public spaces are in need of a refresh, and the HVAC has seemed uneven, even if the classic furniture and brown wood look are retained. The analogy is probably the Riverside is like the older Celebrity ships, yet older, and the Hyatt Centric is like the Edge Class or any modern hotel.

@Norwayladythank you and continued safe travels. The journey, candor, and humor is appreciated. We share your concerns about the Retreat experience, and your comments confirm our disappointment. Some of the impacts of the cutbacks or lack of attention to detail is hard to fathom given the price. Whether it's bottles of water, housekeeping, convenience for ordering breakfast, and so on there's no reason those shouldn't be able to be accommodated without a you needing to work and ask. And, I will observe that this thread quickly stopped talking about the dry dock when it was apparent nothing changed, and the door locks need maintenance. Yet, having the number of days vacation you have and the overall experience, it seems you had a great time. Obviously that is priceless. Again, thanks for sharing.

Waldorf that had been the Mandarin Oriental. Management was MIA, and there service and physical issues with the property, including unpleasant smells in public areas. I would also say I was there during a slower few days and it was substantially more expensive on other days of the month. Based on observation and experience - in Vegas, the Wynn properties have tended to have the most attentive staff, and clearly multiple layers of oversight (it was not uncommon to see Steve Wynn walking around, and still there are very active managers). Some of the MGM properties, and Venetian complex are well maintained, but not to the same level and very impersonal. For a new and clean room, Resorts World can be a good option, and renovated Park MGM may be okay. If one doesn't mind walking a lot, the MGM Tower Suites are like mini apartments and have nice pools at the bottom of each tower. And, overall, there's always deals on rooms to be found and some sites that have travel agents behind them will bundle meals and bonuses along with discounts.

The end of this terrific report from @Norwaylady shares thoughts on Sky Suite in Retreat as compared to Concierge class (as she and her husband are in a B2B on Edge). I'm sharing this here so it's also present for anyone reading about the cutbacks and practical impact they cause. I would add that from my own experience the pre-August cutbacks staff levels to occupancy in Retreat on Edge Class ships were already causing the product to the struggling to keep up with expectations.

Yes. There's one under the bathroom trash can. There may be another in the toilet closet.

@mahdnc thank you in advance. I've certainly seen you on other threads and appreciate reading about your trip.

Perhaps. But, it's something to do with drain in the bathrooms, too. We had the smell in a sky suite and a celebrity suite, and used the balcony several times.

With regard to the noise issue, do you think your cabin was in the "stretch" area added to the ship design from Apex and Edge? I am familiar with the noise complaints, but haven't seen them mapped out. It seems prevalent enough that the cabins with issues are not in any one area, though figured I'd ask. I just saw, not surprisingly, that the Edge had complaints of a smell in 2019. And, we had the issue on Apex. So, class-wide issue. https://boards.cruisecritic.co.uk/topic/2629704-sewage-smell-throughout-celebrity-edge/ Any bets on Ascent and Xcel? And, it would seem the track record of Celebrity "working on issues" that are well known is pretty lousy. Haven't seen reports of any ship design or construction issue that has been significant addressed when reading through these boards. And, now we know that the dry dock report on Edge was basically some exterior paint (that gets done on docks all the time), barnacles (big whoop), and engine stuff.

What room number?