JRG

Sometimes I feel like VanHelsing when trying to defend my point of view. BTW, thank you for the trip report on the WDam, It reminded me of the time Dan Rather chained himself to a palmtree to report on a hurricane. I appreciate alot of the travel trips you've given especially on the transit and excursion saving ideas and that's going to come in handy when we finally make it to Japan, but things just don't seem right now to cruise there. Having @cruisemom42 on board and commenting at the same time made for good CC reading because I don't remember that happening before and it was fun We had been avoiding cruises like the plague, but finally broke down and did the Galapagos islands with our lift and shift remnants, but we are getting back into it and starting the planning stages again. Our standards for food have been raised considerably because of the quality of the food on the Celebrity Expedition so we are probably spoiled in that regard. I used to enjoy buying our cabins long at low prices and slowly upgrading as market conditions changed and the cruisedate approached, but its a little different now but we were definitely spoiled because we used to get such great deals. .

You have a wonderful outlook on cruising! What is really funny is that alot of the hobby complainers are actually not cruisers or cruise very very rarely, but complaining on CC is the only life they have.

Us too, we did the southern loop last year and we are looking at the northern loop on the Expedition. Having just the 48 passengers when the ship was built for 100 is really really nice.

Actually NCL instituted it's version before Covid. As I said, I was on an CC thread casually discussing how smart phones could potentially help the muster process and then NCL beat everybody to the punch, so the people on the losing end of the argument 'lost out' because it caught on like wildfire. The timing was perfect. E-muster definitely helped with Covid not to mention how it helps mitigate spreading cruz crud, and probably novo and the flu by eliminating the beginning of cruise congregation where everybody sniffs the same air and spreads the germs du jour that they have picked up in their travels. Those days are gone. By the way, it is just a matter of time before the smartphones can interface with the ships onboard EMS so that in the event of a Type 2 Emergency, the EMS system will actually send passengers to the nearest available lifeboat to avoid the confusion that happens when everybody crosses each others path and has to go up and down stairs. Can you imagine how much better this would for those who are ambulatory challenged? The EMS system will be able to re-direct passengers in the most efficient way possible and it won't matter if they have forgotten their muster station. It will alert them to best path by interfacing with the damage control systems for blocked access ways. That's how I would tell the experts in the field of marine safety what they should be looking for in the ways to improve the efficiency of the muster drill and execution. And I would help them with the high-level systems design on the project too. Consider this a cocktail napkin of sorts.

Here is one experience we had on an Alaskan cruise. We had taken a river rafting tour earlier in the day with our family and this mandated that before starting out we had to learn the basics of rafting to maintain balance as a group and .......later that night in the MDR.... ...We were a group of ten or so sitting in the far back right (starboard), which was sort of sectioned off but still part of the MDR, when during dinner the ship made a loud clunk which seemed right below us and then started a very slow listing with a creaking sound. Everybody in the dining room grew quiet as the ship started tilting and tilting and tilting, all very slowly and you just kept expecting it to come to stop, but it wouldn't stop. The whole episode took about 30 seconds, maybe longer to unfold but nobody knew what was going to happen because all expectations were ho-hum not a big deal and the ship would right itself but no, instead people were deathly quiet (not screaming or running for balconies) and yes, most people probably panicked. (This was a Type 1 Narrative, lifeboats could not be used by now). The ship has listed so far that things were sliding on tables and frankly, this was the closest thing to a Posieden Adventure Scenario that I had ever experienced and I'm not joking, that is a strange feeling if the ship had continued to keep listing until it capsized. It if had kept rolling over then the screaming would have kicked in but all you could hear was the China jingling on the table... Then all of a sudden, our 9 year old shouts out "Everybody run to the Other Side of the Ship", followed by another moment of silence, and then a lady in the table closest to ours in the corner of the MDR starts laughing out loud hysterically (not ROFL though) followed by me who realized that in all of the deathly still of an emergency, it was the wit and smart thinking of a 9 -year old who had the presence of mind to stand up and warn the other passengers to try and save the ship by remembering his river raft training to maintain balance in the raft and apply it to the ships listing. The Captain would later announce to the passengers that the ship had to pull an ermergency full hard right or left to avoid a small craft and that was what we heard and experienced. There is probably something to be said for improving Muster awareness and that process should always be ongoing, but I'm guessing there were too many injuries and heart attacks and heat-strokes and sprained ankles from the old-style of muster drill, but nobody ever talks about that. That might have been some of the impetus to change to E-muster and it makes sense. This is a true story and is entered into the Captains log with the details. p.s. Son we love you very much and are always thinking of you!

I did not want you to comment, I just wanted to show you what a massive mistake you made by generalizing how you think all people feel. You are fighting a battle that was lost two years ago when all of the naysayers were shocked that NCL instituted the E-muster. The funny thing is that is happened while I was just casually commenting that in a current thread that it would be nice to use smart phones to help with Muster and then the naysayers jumped in. Long story short, they were all sent packing in a life raft with the tails between their legs. They always show up with sour grapes when the discussions turns to emergencies and or mustering. E-muster is here to stay, and it is a morbid thought to think that there are some who wish it to fail at the expense of crew or passenger injury life just to prove that they think that their old way is the best way.

With respect to emergencies and lifeboats....there are essentially only two narratives. And you do not need a captains license to figure this out. 1) the ship is tipped over so far that the lifeboats cannot be used, or something else happened bad that the lifeboats cannot be used. (in other words, the emergency is so bad that is doesn't whether you mustered under General Patton or in the comfort of your cabin as you unpacked your unmentionables.) or..... 2) the lifeboats can be utilized safely because the emergency is not that bad as to prevent the lifeboats from being utilized.. (This is why we drill and muster) So, the US Coast Guard was smart enough to realize that in situation 2), because of the amount of time is takes the crew to get the lifeboats enabled for boarding, most people will have been able to reach the lifeboat and it was not necessary to stand in rows of 15 or 20 by 6 deep as that would probably just be a major cluster. People are probably going to be loaded into the boat on a first come first served basis, so we probably won't be standing in rows unless the crew is having trouble with the lifeboat. The US Coast Guard is also smart enough to know that cruisers have their muster station numbers printed on their cruisecard (or app) so they would not believe the baloney stories that are on this thread about people panicking and screaming because they forgot their muster station. I'd be more worried about lack of experience and training on a cruise ship today because of the immense turnover in personnel that the industry has experienced.

(1) this part is definitely true (2) this part is definitely not true.....(you know it because you were an umpire for 33 years) .....Most cruisers are aware that emergencies can occur and most regular cruisers are aware of muster drills ,their purpose, and the change to E-Muster.. In the words of Mr. Spock...."the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" The Coast Guard got it right when they approved the change....and the naysayers who wanted it to stay the old way have lost out. Sometimes this causes alot of sour grapes when any kind of an emergency arises at sea and people want to blame it on E-muster during a thread. If you really want to still muster the old way, you still can, just go out and do it, people will know what you are trying to do but it will feel pretty silly especially when you are waiting to hear the 7 loud blasts followed by a single long blast.

This is a cruising forum, and I believe there are hundreds of passengers who have successfully done the same thing (disembarking a port early), after having properly reviewed the exit and entry requirements with the proper authorities. I believe we are entitled to hear the opinions of those other passengers who have done the same things so that we don't inadvertently spread false information that certain activities can't be done, just because so and so says so. Please listen to the experience of the people who have been there and done that. p.s. Maybe CC can dedicate a section to the many marine professionals on the board who also deserve the same credential recognition, lets just make sure we do it the right way.

I'm going to respectfully disagree.... In the context of this thread , the actual experince of the OP and the other posters who actually EXPERIENCED disembarking a port early means much more than what is being said by so-called experts who are wrong as often as they are right. I'm mot impressed by the Canadian credentials of a ferry boat driver enough to outweigh what the posters here have done.

Maybe passengers have retreated back to their cabins to log on and see what the recap was for today?

But you know to look for Venus in the early dusk sneaking out behind the moon, and because its supposed to be the brightest planet you take your chances... But what are the steps to read the elevation on the arc of the sextant., Does that mean that you are looking through the viewer and adjusting the arc until it is in best focus, or how do you dial it in and I am assuming that the elevation is marked on the arc and when it is in focus that is one of the components of the time and location calculation, (thats why people look at their watch), so they have the time (presumably) and the elevation marked, what comes next. What is the calculations, it should be basic geometry.... How about a primer or the process?

Pull up a chair and I will go get another bottle of Riesling.....these threads can get very interesting.

We like many of the ports mentioned here but my favorite is our home port of San Diego. Why, maybe it's because it was voted the number 1 embarkation port in the world. Survey Says: San Diego Named World's Best Cruise Port in International Traveler Survey - Times of San Diego P.s. I once remember a CC poster saying that you should avoid it like the 'plague'

I agree with almost all of your postings in this and other threads as they have alot f of merit, but I think you will agree that this one might be changing. Smartphones will enable Bingo and Casino games to provide revenue without a need for retail space via ship wi-fi and now that sports gambling has been approved all they need to do is build the app. Utilizing technology in this way makes sense and bypasses all the complications that come with crowding people into common areas. This is the type of change that HAL needs to evaluate to keep and attract new customers. Maybe its too much too late though?

Thank you for pointing this out. There was a similar high-level mis-communication by NCL in their forum that was basically the same thing, the higher ups couldn't differentiate and apparently have used or were using Mrs. Jones instead of Mrs. P. It is comical to me that so many at high levels have displayed this from the postings of the forum members who have been stymied in one way or another. Comical to watch the reactions (at times) but still an unfortunate bummer for a lot of cruisers who simply want to go 'there and back again' without pain. So many instances like this one.

You are perfectly okay and have stumbled upon the "Biggest Snafu on the Seven Seas" There is so much "mass confusion" on the subject of PVSA violations, especially as it relates to back to back cruises and your itinerary is very common and is one of the worse offenders of this 'snafu'. To me, it seems like the problem originated with the travel agent not being able to identify this as a PVSA issue and fell for the common "Jones Act" excuse. This is a industry wide mis-conception and they will take our lunch money first and let you deal with the issue when it arises. Maybe someday, the talking heads will get smart and 'parse-out' the silliness of the PVSA language so that cruise passengers don't have to suffer the obsolescence of an outdated steamboat era protectionist law.

I read what you are saying. I play Tumbling Dice in G standard tuning because thats the way I figured it out but I can see why he does it in open G. It's easier to twerk and twist and be more flamboyant because the chording is so much easier too. Start Me Up and Beast of Burden are my guitar couch potato favorites. There are problems with the BB King venue from a musicians standpoint but as far as a cruising feature it was a big hit. It never highlighted the works of BB King in substance. KC and the Sunshine band and Play that funky music thing song and some good blues singing is what you get, it would have been better named Blues Brothers and Friends. BB King would break his g string if he knew what they were playing in his name. The audio mix is the biggest problem because they are not in an acoustic-friendly shaped space and everything bleeds without surrounding noise and personnel are probably not trained audio engineers or sound reinforcement pros. They need to move it to the main theatre and rename it the ZZTOP room.

This is a good change for the bettor. Didn't know Princess had something either. Turn some of the gift shops into sportsbar-brewpubs may be more attractive to new cruisers, not to mention old cruisers. Maybe they should introduce cruising-keno to keep the revenue flowing.

Speaking of top-of-the-bucket list items, Car-Henge in Nebraska is not one of them. It failed to live up to my expectations which is why I chose not to visit the place when I was working near by. I can wait for Stonehenge.

Never mind that. The Queen has her horse getting to run at Ascot. If it wins the crowd will go crazy and nothing else will matter today. Bet the farm? not at odds on. I hope she wins. I can tell you how Thomas Shelby would deal with the PVSA fiasco, he'd say there's work to be done. Aunt Polly (RIP Helen McCrory) would say it's not family, its business. p.s. Check Roget's Thesaurus for synonyms for ludicrous after the race. p.s.s. I'm not going to give away how season 6 of Peaky Blinders is starting out either.

Bet the farm on it.

Thanks for the discussion. You are talking policy, the thread was talking logic, or illogic. The post doesn't really gain any traction if it starts talking about policy. We are examining the ludicrous nature of the symptoms of an outdated congressional act, not a policy. Hopefully that makes it clear. Its more than just an inconvenience to a handful of passengers. How can one make such a simplification when so many posters complain about the same or similar conundrum.

thanks for the interest level, you take a different tangent after this sentence, so I did not review what you wrote in detail. We know the rule very very well. My point that there is confusion at the higher level is confirmed by the fact that NCL SENIOR mgt were the ones who were confused, so if there is confusion at the higher level then what is a cruiser to do. The OP has alerted this to us in this post but we see it in many places in the posts on CC. The problem is that until we get it parsed correctly, it will continue impede cruising and the travel industry and ancillary services by remaining a barrier to market. So, we cannot cruise Round Trip from San Diego to Hawaii and back, without stopping in Ensenada or doing a longer, cruise, this is the ludicrus part of the 'logic'. Not the Rule. The Rule is Ripe for Changing.....would be a good way to look at it, and it might be the beginning of early dis-embarkations if they can 'parse' out the language for 'coastwise transportation' It is an interesting topic to discuss, but rest assured, frequent posters on CC know the rule, sadly.

Thank You for your post @geezercouple, I find it interesting that senior management at NCL at first tried to claim it was because of the Jones Act and your point that PASSENGERS are not CARGO made it clear to NCL senior management that they should have been referring to the PVSA. (if they put it in writing then it becomes even more verifiable as a cruise-industry problem) It illustrates that there is confusion on this subject and it exists at the very highest levels, and that can be rectified. Same thing with the travel agents and PCC's who will eventually recognize that it is a 'hot button' because cruisers have been getting the "wrong information", and that has been problematic for back to backs and US coastline cruising. I have been looking for the logic in the PVSA from our CC members, as you have asked for it to be explained and the logic is still nowhere to be found. Its like trying to pull out the Sword in the Stone, everybody steps up but nobody has been able to explain the logic. Passengers are not Cargo.