Silver Spirit Blog is Now OnLine

The Silver Spirit Blog is now live. You can access it from the newly redesigned homepage of http://www.silversea.com, or you can access it directly at http://www.silverspiritblog.com.

Thank you for your interest in Silver Spirit,

Steve Tucker

Vice President Field Sales -The Americas

Silversea Cruises

Steve, thanks to the Silversea Team for developing the blog...Spirit double decker pook deck looks awesome and can't wait to have drinks in the Spirit Panorama lounge.

Dear Mr Tucker

Thank you so much for the link. It is very interesting.

One other different but related question. Your "2010 Voyages" book showed (page 179) that the newbuild Spirit is 36,000 tonnes for 540 passengers, that is a space ratio of 6,666 cu.ft. per passenger (rounded to 6,700 in the link). Then on page 175 of the book, it lists the Shadow/Whisper at 28,258 tonnes for 382 passengers, that will be a space ratio of 7,397 cu.ft. per passenger, which is 11% higher than the newbuild, which means the newbuild has a substantial decline in space ratio.

Despite the above, the standard suite on the newbuild is 376 sq.ft. versus the Shadow/Whisper's 345 sq.ft., an increase of 13%. So where does the space come from on the newbuild? Unless the newbuild has much lower ceiling (which I doubt), the additional suite floor space must come from the total public area space (which if it is roughly equal to the total suite space), must decline roughly by 11+13 or some one quarter to make the data consistent. Is this the case?

Given the newbuild will have six restaurants and a larger spa/gym area, it will be difficult to shrink other public space to account for the shrinkage. Perhaps the theatre will no longer hold all passengers in one sitting? Perhaps the pool area will no longer hold all passengers for a poolside barbeque. We were already told (by another poster on this board) that the main restaurant can no longer hold all passengers in camera. Even though space on a larger ship can be utilized more efficiently, still space is space, and I wonder how the numbers can be explained.

Actually, a decade ago, the Shadow/Whipser was claimed at 25,000 tonnes, so with 382 passengers, the claimed space ratio then would be 6,544 cu.ft. per passenger, which would have been 2% lower than claimed for the Spirit, but somehow, it was revised to 28,258 later. Now if we look at these ships dimensions, the newbuild is 642 ft. long, 86 ft. wide, with 11 decks, while the Shadow/Whisper is 610 ft long, 81.8 ft. wide, with 10 decks, if we assume that all these ships have similar shapes, then the total space of the newbuild versus the Sahdow/Whisper will be 642x86x11 to 610x81.8x10 or 1.22. This ratio is much closer to 36,000/28,258 (1.27) than 36,000/25,000 (1.44). That being the case, I would assume the 36,000/28,258 values to be correct.

While many people will consider these numbers trivial, and unimportant to passengers, neverthelss, they are highlighted "sales points" by Silversea in your advertisements. They are thereby legitimate questions to ask, and which the cruise line, if they don't know it themselves, should ask the ship builders for a clarification, such that the public's desire to understand can be satisfied. For the newbuild, with lower space ratio, and larger standard suites, where do the space come from, reduced public areas?

meow!

Wow!

Dear Mr Tucker

 

Thank you so much for the link. It is very interesting.

 

One other different but related question. Your "2010 Voyages" book showed (page 179) that the newbuild Spirit is 36,000 tonnes for 540 passengers, that is a space ratio of 6,666 cu.ft. per passenger (rounded to 6,700 in the link). Then on page 175 of the book, it lists the Shadow/Whisper at 28,258 tonnes for 382 passengers, that will be a space ratio of 7,397 cu.ft. per passenger, which is 11% higher than the newbuild, which means the newbuild has a substantial decline in space ratio.

Despite the above, the standard suite on the newbuild is 376 sq.ft. versus the Shadow/Whisper's 345 sq.ft., an increase of 13%. So where does the space come from on the newbuild? Unless the newbuild has much lower ceiling (which I doubt), the additional suite floor space must come from the total public area space (which if it is roughly equal to the total suite space), must decline roughly by 11+13 or some one quarter to make the data consistent. Is this the case?

 

Given the newbuild will have six restaurants and a larger spa/gym area, it will be difficult to shrink other public space to account for the shrinkage. Perhaps the theatre will no longer hold all passengers in one sitting? Perhaps the pool area will no longer hold all passengers for a poolside barbeque. We were already told (by another poster on this board) that the main restaurant can no longer hold all passengers in camera. Even though space on a larger ship can be utilized more efficiently, still space is space, and I wonder how the numbers can be explained.

 

Actually, a decade ago, the Shadow/Whipser was claimed at 25,000 tonnes, so with 382 passengers, the claimed space ratio then would be 6,544 cu.ft. per passenger, which would have been 2% lower than claimed for the Spirit, but somehow, it was revised to 28,258 later. Now if we look at these ships dimensions, the newbuild is 642 ft. long, 86 ft. wide, with 11 decks, while the Shadow/Whisper is 610 ft long, 81.8 ft. wide, with 10 decks, if we assume that all these ships have similar shapes, then the total space of the newbuild versus the Sahdow/Whisper will be 642x86x11 to 610x81.8x10 or 1.22. This ratio is much closer to 36,000/28,258 (1.27) than 36,000/25,000 (1.44). That being the case, I would assume the 36,000/28,258 values to be correct.

 

While many people will consider these numbers trivial, and unimportant to passengers, neverthelss, they are highlighted "sales points" by Silversea in your advertisements. They are thereby legitimate questions to ask, and which the cruise line, if they don't know it themselves, should ask the ship builders for a clarification, such that the public's desire to understand can be satisfied. For the newbuild, with lower space ratio, and larger standard suites, where do the space come from, reduced public areas?

 

meow!

I must be missing something but "tonnes" is a measure of weight and "cu. ft." is a measure of area. How can you compare the amount of usable space in a structure by looking a the weight of the ship and the number of passengers?

(Disclaimer: I managed to get a Master's degree without having to take any maths courses!)

Love the new blog - the pool area looks amazing.:D

Cheers

ging466

I must be missing something but "tonnes" is a measure of weight and "cu. ft." is a measure of area. How can you compare the amount of usable space in a structure by looking a the weight of the ship and the number of passengers?

For cruise ships, by convention, tonnes means 100 cu.ft., it is a volume unit, not a weight unit as normal.

You learn something new every day! Thanks!

She's a beauty!!

Host Dan

When they say tonnage that is not, technically, the weight of the ship; it is the displacement.

Copied and pasted from Wikipedia:

Tonnage measurements

Gross Register Tonnage (GRT) represents the total internal volume of a vessel, with some exemptions for non-productive spaces such as crew quarters; 1 gross register ton is equal to a volume of 100 cubic feet (2.83 m³), which volume, if filled with fresh water, would weigh around 2,800 kg or 2.8 tonnes. Calculation of GRT is complex; a hold can, for instance, be assessed for bulk grain (accounting for all the air space in the hold) or for bales (omitting the spaces into which bulk, but not baled cargo would spill). Gross register tonnage was replaced by gross tonnage in 1994 under the Tonnage Measurement convention of 1969, but is still a widely used term in the industry.[1][2]

Net Register Tonnage (NRT) is the volume of cargo the vessel can carry; ie. the Gross Register Tonnage less the volume of spaces that will not hold cargo (e.g. engine compartment, helm station, crew spaces, etc., again with differences depending on which port or country is doing the calculations). It represents the volume of the ship available for transporting freight or passengers. It was replaced by net tonnage in 1994, under the Tonnage Measurement convention of 1969.

Displacement is the actual total weight of the vessel. It is often expressed in long tons or in metric tons, and is calculated simply by multiplying the volume of the hull below the waterline (ie. the volume of water it is displacing) by the density of the water. (Note that the density will depend on whether the vessel is in fresh or salt water, or is in the tropics, where water is warmer and hence less dense

Steve, thanks for the blog link. We are all looking forward to new entries, I am sure.

Craig, hats off for getting the masters' with no math. I almost did that with my bachelors and then found out the rules changed my last year. Ugh.

You all are on the right path. A GRT, (as defined by CLIA in their 2007 Cruise Manual) is "a measurement of 100 cubic feet of enclosed revenue-earning space aboard a vessel". So it is not weight or water displacement, but rather a measurement of space. You are also correct that the GRT upon vessel completion will be slightly different than what we publish intially from the shipyard as they don't really know the exact GRT until the ship is completed at which time the "enclosed revenue-earning space" is measured to determine the GRT. You are also correct that the slated Space Ratio (the GRT divided by the double occupancy) of the Silver Spirit may come out to slightly less than the Silver Shadow and Silver Whisper, (which have the highest space ratios in our market segment) but still substantially higher than most other cruise ships. Until I physically see the ship (and/or ask our Operations Team) I can not tell you where or how the space will differ on Silver Spirit from Silver Shadow and Silver Whisper.

Steve Tucker

Vice President Field Sales - The Americas

Silversea Cruises

Steve, do you know when the Seishin prices will be set?

Until I physically see the ship (and/or ask our Operations Team) I can not tell you where or how the space will differ on Silver Spirit from Silver Shadow and Silver Whisper.

Based on what we have said earlier on this thread, one PLAUSIBILITY is that if the newbuild Spirit has the same total area of public space as the Shadow/Whisper (despite its larger number of passengers), then it could have the slightly larger cabins as claimed and yet fit into the reduced overall numbers as claimed. However, the public spaces will be more crowded with 540 instead of 382 passengers. Perhaps Silversea figures that a lot of space on the Shadow/Whisper now is hardly used. So they may as well arrange a bit differently to better spread out the passengers, such that there won't be bottlenecks. And as the cabins are large and comfortable, perhaps few will need much public space (as is the case now on the Shadow/Whisper) anyway.

The Shadow/Whisper were conceived and "cast" at the turn of the millenium, at the height of an economic boom. The Spirit's gestation coincides with the economic tsunami, with the world's sole superpower on deep descent in the intervening eight years. Such economic sea change that spreads around the world is bound to have effects on many aspects of life, the design of a new ship is but a tiny reflection of reality!

I guess commercial shipping is different than military. For military ships gross tonnage is displacement and it's normally identified as such; ie displacement.

Following our own guess above, we did a cursory measurement based on deck plans published in Silversea's "2010 Voyages" book. We measured with a ruler the length of cabin areas on the drawing, and compare it to the length of the public areas on the same drawing. Mind you that it is difficult to define the public areas in each case, and therefore the measurements are somewhat subjective and can only give a general idea and not absolute accuracy.

We found for the Shadow/Whisper pubic area 443 mm and cabin area 412 mm (108%)

We found for the newbuild Spirit public area 427 mm and cabin area 516 mm (82%)

So the public to cabin area ratio has shrunk by one quarter (82/108), which appears to indicate that our guess in the previous thread (similar total public area despite increase in number of passengers for the newbuild Spirit) may not be far from the ballpark. Perhaps Mr Tucker would like to ask the ship designer about this .. meow!

I guess commercial shipping is different than military. For military ships gross tonnage is displacement and it's normally identified as such; ie displacement.

I think the blog is great. Steve, thanks so very much for posting this information.

Keith

Reading the twitters sent back by the two reporters on board the newbuild Spirit so far, it looks apparent that the new ship's cabins will be very nice. After all, the standard cabin has been increased from 345 sq.ft. to 376 sq.ft. and this must be welcomed.

It also appears that the public areas will be nice too, the restaurants, the spa, the pool decks that they show us pictures of. Nonetheless, we are just cautious about the reduced public space per passenger, well, space is space, though it can be better utilized. But the reduced space must come from somewhere.

Perhaps this reduction will only become apparent when the ship is actually carrying a full load of passengers, and when these passengers leave their lovely cocoon cabins. Will the tables in the dining rooms be put closer together instead of generously spaced as on the Shadow/Whisper? Will the theatre seat all in camera, or will its separate little table arrangement be replaced by long rows of seats with benches? Will it be difficult to find tables for two for breakfast in La Terrazza, especially on a rainy/windy day when people cannot sit outside? Are the libraries/internet rooms much more crowded (they seem smaller than the Shadow/Whisper's on the Spirit's deck plan)?

Perhaps they will encourage passengers to eat breakfast in suite and use wireless internet, or check the library on those double TVs in the cabins and have books delivered! Perhaps the pool area is truly double-decked to make it possible to hold all passengers in one sitting for poolside barbeques (there appears to be tall glass walls surrounding the deck above the pool area, making it semi-enclosed on the upper level, which is a new design).

By the way, I hope those reporters will kindly find out:

1. Are the sinks in the washrooms of standard suites the new European basin type (sitting above the counter instead of beneath it). That may be the reason why the double sinks on the Shadow/Whisper are replaced by the single ones on the Spirit.

2. Are the wooden furnishings in the cabins "pattern veneered" (for elegance)? From the pictures, they are "straight carpentry" and not curved.

3. Are the air conditioning / heating vent outlets still long thin bidirectional slits to spread and smoothen the air flow?

4. Are the marble surfaces in the washrooms genuine (cool to the touch), instead of synthetic?

Perhaps one of you may be so kind as to relate these questions to the reporters on board while possible. It should be an exciting ship, and we are really curious, though we do not have the means to get onto it until perhaps 2011 or after to do our own observation and measurement .. meow!

Meow, done..have forwarded your ? to both Anita and Ralph..if you're on Twitter

watch your electrons..if not, I will post their answers...best, Wes

Thank you kindly Colonel. You are so nice. We will watch for your postings.

Dear Colonel: I just got the following from "Expert Cruiser" twitter

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Copied and pasted from "Expert Cruiser" twitter

Yes, the the air conditioning heating vents are long thin bidirectional slits set in recessed tray ceilings with lighting

2 minutes ago from TwitterBerry #travel #cruise the sink counter tops are marble. Wood furnishings appear to be pattern veneered - I will double check this this morning.

5 minutes ago from TwitterBerry #travel #cruise Yes the sinks in the bathrooms are the new European basin type. In regular suites there is just one in the larger suites two

12 minutes ago from TwitterBerry #travel #cruise Wes the track and it didn't seem any longer than Shadow or Whisper. Yes you will be able to jog around dk 10 early morning

19 minutes ago from TwitterBerry #travel #cruise here are answers to some reader's questions. Wes, I estimate its an 8 stroke across the pool Could not get answer on jog trk

22 minutes ago from TwitterBerry #travel #cruise I was able to sleep in a Silver Suite on deck 10. This is the most popular suite category - Spirit has 26 each at 742 sq ft

24 minutes ago from TwitterBerry #travel #cruise Hi everyone! Sorry I was unable to 'Tweet' earlier was out of cell range. Lovely morning on Silver Spirit full moon and all

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Thank you kindly for all your valuable contribution to this board. By the looks of it, the newbuild's cabins are really nice. We just hope that there are no "bottle necks" on the new ship due to the reduced per passenger public area (by our cursory estimation the same total "public area" as the Shadow/Whisper but with 540 versus 382 passengers at full load).

Some further news from "Expert Cruiser":

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We have had a slight change of plans. We are headed into Ancona a day early. There is a bearing issue that needs to be fixed

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I hope that is "routine" for trying out a new ship. Presumably, Silversea does not use those "pod systems" so popular in new mega ships. Silversea ships are small enough to be manouvrable enough not to need pods. Without the added depth required by the pods sticking out under the bottom, Silversea ships can enter shallower harbours, is that right?