Has anyone returned from Cuba via Royal Carribean?

There is a ton of confusion on these boards about getting of the ship and walking around Havana on your own. RC Is saying you must take their tours. Has anyone recently returned from their Royal Carribean cruise that can provide any information on getting off the ship without a tour?

No cruise line can keep you a prisoner on the ship.....but they can bully you into buying their tours.

 

There have been hundreds of posts on this topic by those of us who have recently been to Cuba. Read a lot of these Cuba threads.

I have been trying to find those thread. Any suggestions?

I have been trying to find those thread. Any suggestions?

 

You are already on the Cuba Board, just scroll down and start reading.

you can book your own guide (recommended as best way to see the city) or you can wander on your own...get a classic car to cruise around in or go on a mass market tour organized by the cruise line...your choice and your money. we just returned and did not come on a cruise but sure spoke with many on the ship who were exploring on their own...no problem.

Royal and Azamara are the same family, but I don't know if Royal is being more strict about it... Just off Azamara March 9-19 Cuba Intensive cruise....we were not told we could not get off the ship without one of their tours. We were sold the Cuba Visa onboard ($75). First port we showed our visa and passport, which was stamped. Santiago gave us a little boarding card which we needed to return to get back on the ship. Cienfuegos needed to see visa and passport. Havana was more involved...we waited in line to one at a time see their border patrol, had a photo taken, and they took the visa away. You need your passport, which they looked at and compared to the photo they took for all subsequent exits/entries. No one ever asked us if we had a tour arranged at any port, nor did they ask when you had booked your cruise (for those who booked prior to the last change of rules). We were free to do as we wished the entire cruise. Cuba relies greatly on tourism, the people don't care what country you are coming from.

cinio...the Cuban authorities don't care at all if you have a tour arranged or when you booked your tour or anything other than you have the visa and your valid passport. So much mis-information spread by the cruise lines who want you to buy the tours.

cinio...the Cuban authorities don't care at all if you have a tour arranged or when you booked your tour or anything other than you have the visa and your valid passport. So much mis-information spread by the cruise lines who want you to buy the tours.

This is totally true!

 

Very sad that so many cruiselines are trying to confuse and scare passengers just so they can make more money. :(

cinio...the Cuban authorities don't care at all if you have a tour arranged or when you booked your tour or anything other than you have the visa and your valid passport. So much mis-information spread by the cruise lines who want you to buy the tours.

The Cuban government has always welcomed tourists with hard currency. It is The US government that imposed all the restrictions. The US back in the early 1960s attempted to ban virtually all US citizens from going, but that ban was overturned by Courts. The U S response was to set up the Office of Foreign Asset Control and make it illegal to spend money in Cuba (and some other countries). OFAC rules were gradually loosened to the point that individuals could do their own People to People Program (theoretically educational, but you were supposed to keep a diary documenting your “education”). In Nov 2017 new more restrictive rules eliminated individual P2P and says you are in violation of OFAC rules if you are not on a formal tour. As much as I hate the step away from freedom I think both you and cruise lines are in violation if you are off the ship and not on a licensed tour for at least part of the time. I was in Cuba in 2017 under the previous rules and we were told to keep our documentation for 5 years in case Big Brother asked.

 

I find it repugnant that the only 2 counties that I am aware that claim a right to restrict foreign travel of their citizens are North Korea and the US. But given rules in place I’d recommend keeping a low profile on not using guides who met OFAC rules.

 

ADD. If you checked “Support for the Cuban People “ rather than P2P on your affidavit and maintain documentation of what you did you have reasonable legal grounds.

Edited March 30, 2018 by TravelerThom

my reply is based on just returning from my second trip...ie first hand knowledge of exactly what is or is not being implemented. You can do what you want in Cuba and support the people in many different ways nothing at all illegal.

my reply is based on just returning from my second trip...ie first hand knowledge of exactly what is or is not being implemented. You can do what you want in Cuba and support the people in many different ways nothing at all illegal.

What did you do to meet the provisions of 31 C.F.R. Part 515, administered by the Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) of the U.S. Department of the Treasury? Did you collect and are you retaining for 5 years supporting documentation and evidence to validate your activities while in Cuba in the event of an OFAC inquiry?

 

Unless you have good answers for those 2 questions what you did is illegal in the eyes of the US Government. And since RCI’s Cuba visits leave from US ports, the US Government position is that 31 C.F.R. 515 applies to everyone on the ship, not just US citizens. Just because you were able to do something does not make it legal.

What did you do to meet the provisions of 31 C.F.R. Part 515, administered by the Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) of the U.S. Department of the Treasury? Did you collect and are you retaining for 5 years supporting documentation and evidence to validate your activities while in Cuba in the event of an OFAC inquiry?

I went under People-to-People and, yes, I have daily documentation in a journal and photos that show that I was engaged in activities that were educational and supported the Cuban people toward democracy. I will keep them for the required 5 years.

 

BUT.....I have a request for you....please post the law that specifically states that only ship tours do not violate the U.S. law.

I went under People-to-People and, yes, I have daily documentation in a journal and photos that show that I was engaged in activities that were educational and supported the Cuban people toward democracy. I will keep them for the required 5 years.

 

BUT.....I have a request for you....please post the law that specifically states that only ship tours do not violate the U.S. law.

There is none. C.F.R.s are in the Code of Federal Regulations, Not officially laws, but enforceable in court.

 

Self-Guided People-to-People Program (which it sounds like you did) are ONLY PERMITTED FOR PASSENGER BOOKINGS MADE BEFORE JUNE 16, 2017 (which I will assume you did). To imply that this is legal for everyone is grossly misleading. It is still legal to use non-ship tours prebooked through an authorized US vendor, but unless grandfathered in by a booking before June 16, 2017, it is a violation to do a Self Guided P2P.

 

All this is spelled out in the RCI Guest Certification for Authorized US Travel to Cuba which you were supposed to sign prior to boarding the ship.

 

I feel that US government regulation on Cuban travel are a significant infringement on MY (and your) freedom, and I have no issues with people who skirt these regulations. However telling others that there are no legal issues is irresponsible.

There is none.

That is correct! :D

That is correct! :D

But that has not prevented non-commercial violators of OFAC Regulations from being fined $7,500 - $10,000 (commercial fines are far higher), so what is your point?

 

There are a number of legal ways in addition to cruise line tours to comply with OFAC Regulations, as indeed is pointed out in RCI’s Affidavit. However ignoring OFAC Regulations and then publicly bragging about it (as some do on CruiseCritic) is asking for trouble.

I would venture to say I supported the Cuban in a far more serious way than cruise passengers who get off for a few hours. We stayed in Cuban owned Casas...ate at Cuban restaurants...saw Havana with Cuban guides and spent lots of cucs there. We experienced many things including cooking classes and music performances..I could go on and on...we met many cruise passengers out on their own enjoying the city and we saw some in large groups looking so bored...take your choice.

But that has not prevented non-commercial violators of OFAC Regulations from being fined $7,500 - $10,000 (commercial fines are far higher), so what is your point?

 

There are a number of legal ways in addition to cruise line tours to comply with OFAC Regulations, as indeed is pointed out in RCI’s Affidavit. However ignoring OFAC Regulations and then publicly bragging about it (as some do on CruiseCritic) is asking for trouble.

 

 

It is obvious that you do not know what constitutes compliance and each person reading all of this can decide for themselves...no bragging here at all. I can imagine being on this cruise with you..would be real fun!!

There is a ton of confusion on these boards about getting of the ship and walking around Havana on your own. RC Is saying you must take their tours. Has anyone recently returned from their Royal Carribean cruise that can provide any information on getting off the ship without a tour?

I am returning to the original question and will try to answer with as much fact as possible. If you go to:

 

https://www.royalcaribbean.com/cuba/content/uploads/2017/11/Cuba.Guest_.Instructions.Final_.Nov_.14.Rev_.pdf

 

you should arrive at RCI’s instructions for Royal Caribbean International Guest Certification for Authorized U.S. Travel to Cuba. I think these are both clear and accurate. Options are:

 

1) RCI tour: probably easiest but also large group and expensive

 

2) Non-RCI tour: must be with a U.S. sponsoring organization, so must be pre-booked, so more hassle on the front end than RCI tour

 

3) Self guided People to People: legally available ONLY if your booking pre-dates 16 June 2017

 

4) Other General License: this is the fun part!!

 

5) your own OFAC Specific License: if you have one you should not be having to read this

 

If you select 4) “Other General License “ you then have to select from a number of categories. Most do not apply to the average RCI passenger, but “Support for the Cuban People “ is broad enough that with some planning and during the fact documenting anyone can qualify.

 

NOTE that the Cuba government is happy to welcome your money. As long as you don’t cross rather obvious political and military red lines they allow you broad latitudesd within an environment that is remarkably safe. They aren’t going to assist the US government in prosecuting you for OFAC violations. OFAC concentrates on commercial entities, and doesn’t have the resources to track individual tourists within Cuba; BUT if you insist on making it obvious to them that you are flouting their Regulations they will prosecute to make an example of you.

 

It is entirely possible to have a lovely time independently in Cuba and still stay close enough to both the US and Cuban rules to avoid hassle, but it is not do whatever you want and nothing is illegal. ENJOY!

 

Thom

last paragraph above says it all...up to the traveler. If you are going to lay awake all night concerned about violating some rules...then just take the ship's tours.

BUT if you insist on making it obvious to them that you are flouting their Regulations they will prosecute to make an example of you.

Really??!! Please give specific examples. Sounds like just your opinion. Not right to post unsubstantiated things like this that just cause fear, so please cite specific examples of people who have been prosecuted.

We're on a Majesty of the Seas cruise that is due in Havana at 2pm for a 26 hour stop, leaving the next afternoon at 4pm. We've reserved a RCI tour for the second day and plan to wander around a bit on our own after arrival on the first day. Wondering if we should check box 1 or do the support for the Cuban people option. My sense is that it doesn't really matter.

Jim, i am thinking you might be on my cruise...may 9 to 14. sounds like our hours. i am in the process of perhaps booking through fertours or blexie a 4-hr evening tour. i am being advised by representatives from both companies (who are NOT affiliated in any way with RCI) to check the "in support of the cuban people" box. they both possess business licenses in cuba that meet with the US requirements. it is such a shame that someone feels the need to come on here and frighten people with "being made and example of". yes, if you read the u.s. dept of state requirement on travel to cuba, you will find a list of places that are on the "no fly" list. my suggestion would be do not patronize those places and you are fine.

Appreciate your thoughts; we're sailing a bit later in May (23-28).

i would strongly encourage anyone to organize your own tour as per 22 above...many good companies are listed on Trip Advisor and check"support for the cuban people"...there is no need to take a ship sponsored tour or feel in any way you are not complying with rules of our government. Have fun...Havana is a great place to explore.

Really??!! Please give specific examples. Sounds like just your opinion. Not right to post unsubstantiated things like this that just cause fear, so please cite specific examples of people who have been prosecuted.

 

They can't because there are none and honestly if there were this poster would not know about it. It is a shame the incorrect information and scare tactics that the cruise lines are using to fill their tours.