PVSA question.

Couldn't Princess just price the B2B to cover the $300 fine per passenger?

Can you elaborate on this? I cannot see how the act prevents anyone shipping from Vancouver to Alaska.

No, it doesn't. Most of the stores and businesses in early US Alaskan history were "company stores" where they would only sell products from Seattle stores, so the merchandise had to come from Seattle. Basically, the Seattle merchants owned the businesses that supplied things to Alaska, owned the stores in Alaska, and the ships carrying these supplies to Alaska. What was happening was that "renegade" traders were buying supplies in Canada and using Canadian ships to transport. So, the Jones Act was originally intended to perpetuate a monopoly in Alaska, but has become the protection of all US coastwise and inland maritime traffic.

If the ship overnights in port and you exit the ship for a full 24 hours (fully disembarking and taking all your stuff with you, and staying at a hotel at your own expense) it breaks the chain. That unit an option most of the time, though.

Yes, the wording of "permanent disembarkation" as noted in my post above is required. However, there is not a strict "24 hour" rule, only that you disembark on one calendar day, and re-embark on the next calendar day.

In speaking with one of the attorneys who handle these decisions in DC, I was told the 'permanent disembarkation' policy asks whether the passenger is onboard when the ship in question next leaves the port in question.

When asked about the '24 hour rule' I was told there is no time frame or hour requirement listed in the regulation. The 24 hour break came into play when passengers left a ship, the ship left that port and later returned, and the passenger rejoined the ship. It was deemed that a ship would have to leave the port for at least 24 hours (and preferably make an interim port stop) before it could return to pick up previous passengers at the debarkation port and consider it to be a different journey. If the ship stayed in the port and did not leave, it would not be considered a different journey, even if it stayed 24 or more hours.

Couldn't Princess just price the B2B to cover the $300 fine per passenger?

No. Well, I suppose they "could" but they won't.

If a cruise line flagrantly flouts the law (by allowing passengers to break the law), other penalties can be enacted, including being banned from certain ports/itineraries.

In speaking with one of the attorneys who handle these decisions in DC, I was told the 'permanent disembarkation' policy asks whether the passenger is onboard when the ship in question next leaves the port in question.

 

When asked about the '24 hour rule' I was told there is no time frame or hour requirement listed in the regulation. The 24 hour break came into play when passengers left a ship, the ship left that port and later returned, and the passenger rejoined the ship. It was deemed that a ship would have to leave the port for at least 24 hours (and preferably make an interim port stop) before it could return to pick up previous passengers at the debarkation port and consider it to be a different journey. If the ship stayed in the port and did not leave, it would not be considered a different journey, even if it stayed 24 or more hours.

Thanks, hadn't heard that interpretation. It does make sense, however, within the spirit and letter of the law.

I've always wondered how can a ship leaving Los Angeles for Hawaii return to Los Angeles with a short stop in Ensenada pass this test. I don't know how Ensenada would pass the test of a foreign port if Vancouver can't.

I've always wondered how can a ship leaving Los Angeles for Hawaii return to Los Angeles with a short stop in Ensenada pass this test. I don't know how Ensenada would pass the test of a foreign port if Vancouver can't.

The law says that a foreign flagged ship cannot transport passengers from one US port to a different US port without a stop at a DISTANT foreign port.

A distant foreign port is described as any port NOT in North America, Central America, the Bermuda Islands, orthe West Indies (including the Bahama Islands, but not including the Leeward Islands ofthe Netherlands Antilles, i.e., Aruba, Bonaire, and Curacao).

A cruise that's a round trip cruise, or a cruise that starts or ends in a foreign port only has to call at ANY foreign port (close or distant).

Both Ensenada and Vancouver fit the bill for a closed loop cruise, as well as a one way that begins in a US port and ends in a foreign port, or vice versa.

Where did you see that Vancouver doesn't count as a foreign port?

The law says that a foreign flagged ship cannot transport passengers from one US port to a different US port without a stop at a DISTANT foreign port.. . .Where did you see that Vancouver doesn't count as a foreign port?

Vancouver is a foreign port, but it is not a distant foreign port. The key word is distant.

Tom

Vancouver is a foreign port, but it is not a distant foreign port. The key word is distant.

 

Tom

Yes, I know. I was asking where AZ Ocean Lover was seeing that Vancouver doesn't count as a foreign port (like Ensenada does).

Yes, I know. I was asking where AZ Ocean Lover was seeing that Vancouver doesn't count as a foreign port (like Ensenada does).

Ah. Sorry 'bout that, I misunderstood.

Tom

Let me get this straight. If I board a ship in Vancouver BC and go to Seattle (Trip 1), I cannot re-board this ship for a cruise to Alaska (trip 2) ?

Let me get this straight. If I board a ship in Vancouver BC and go to Seattle (Trip 1), I cannot re-board this ship for a cruise to Alaska (trip 2) ?

No, that is not correct. The PVSA does not apply here since your cruise starts in a non-US port. What you could not do is board a ship in, say, San Francisco, sail to Vancouver and then remain on that same ship and sail to Seattle on that ship. That would, in effect, be a cruise from San Francisco to Seattle which, since Princess is a non-US flagged ship that was not built in the US and is not crewed by an American crew, would be a PVSA violation. You could sail from SF to Vancouver on one ship, get off in Vancouver and get on another ship and sail from Vancouver to Seattle. That would be okay.

Tom

Thanks Tom, I was wondering about this because we are booked this way and departing in a couple of weeks. Thanks for the feedback

Hank

Let me get this straight. If I board a ship in Vancouver BC and go to Seattle (Trip 1), I cannot re-board this ship for a cruise to Alaska (trip 2) ?

As noted, you can take a Vancouver/Seattle B2B with a Seattle (either round trip or one way) cruise.

What you can't do (even if one were available) would be a Seattle to, say, Anchorage cruise by itself.