Alaska B2B cruisers

Any one doing either the LA/Vancouver-Vancouver/Seattle B2B, or the Seattle/Vancouver-Vancouver/LA B2B, please call DCL and have them confirm that you will be able to do this cruise.

It's a violation of the Passenger Vessel Services Act to transport passengers from one US city to a different US city without a distant foreign port. A distant foreign port is defined as any port not in North America or in the Caribbean.

While these cruises are 2 separate cruises, the PVSA views them (when done B2B) as one cruse.

:)

Any one doing either the LA/Vancouver-Vancouver/Seattle B2B, or the Seattle/Vancouver-Vancouver/LA B2B, please call DCL and have them confirm that you will be able to do this cruise.

 

It's a violation of the Passenger Vessel Services Act to transport passengers from one US city to a different US city without a distant foreign port. A distant foreign port is defined as any port not in North America or in the Caribbean.

 

While these cruises are 2 separate cruises, the PVSA views them (when done B2B) as one cruse.

 

:)

Had the same issue with Princess on one cruise as well

LA---> Van --- (Alaska) ------> Seattle

Had to cancel one or disembark spent 24 hrs in Vancouver (not an issue ) then board a different Princes Ship.

a law that went into effect in 1886 that need to be change in some effect.dcl knows that a lot of people like to do b2b they should of plan better. they could of had the la to van repo than did one alaska cruise from van to van that way people could of did the b2b. than at the end of the season they could of had the last alaska cruise from van to van than the repo so people could of did the b2b.

how does the pvsa benefit the usa? it seems to me its causing more harm than good. i know in hawaii the one cruise ship on ncl has american workers so they do not have to have a distant foreign port. when a cruiseline wants to do a one way to hawaii and on the way back to hawaii they have to leave and return from canada or mexico causing the united states to lose money. let say they could leave from las angelas if they didnt have that law well a lot of people will fly in the night before giving money towards the hotels, restaurants etc than all the tax money the city and state will get. is there something about the law im not getting besides the one cruise ship that has american workers how is the law benefiting the united states?

how does the pvsa benefit the usa? it seems to me its causing more harm than good. i know in hawaii the one cruise ship on ncl has american workers so they do not have to have a distant foreign port. when a cruiseline wants to do a one way to hawaii and on the way back to hawaii they have to leave and return from canada or mexico causing the united states to lose money. let say they could leave from las angelas if they didnt have that law well a lot of people will fly in the night before giving money towards the hotels, restaurants etc than all the tax money the city and state will get. is there something about the law im not getting besides the one cruise ship that has american workers how is the law benefiting the united states?

I didn't start this thread as a debate forum for why the law is - just wanted to give a heads up to those who may be in this situation.

:)

Had the same issue with Princess on one cruise as well

 

LA---> Van --- (Alaska) ------> Seattle

 

Had to cancel one or disembark spent 24 hrs in Vancouver (not an issue ) then board a different Princes Ship.

Only problem with this is - DCL only has one ship doing Alaska.

:)

I have been watching the Disney Wonder roll call thread, and it doesn't look like anybody is aware of this yet.

I think Disney is misinformed about the law, and maybe the CBP won't find out, and the passengers will slide through on the B2B...I hope it doesn't end up them being denied boarding on the Vancouver to Seattle leg.

I have been watching the Disney Wonder roll call thread, and it doesn't look like anybody is aware of this yet.

 

I think Disney is misinformed about the law, and maybe the CBP won't find out, and the passengers will slide through on the B2B...I hope it doesn't end up them being denied boarding on the Vancouver to Seattle leg.

There's another cruise meet thread I posted on, and they're aware of it. But DCL is telling them that, because they are disembarking in Vancouver and going through customs, it's not a violation of the PVSA.

I also hope all goes well for the people doing this B2B.

:)

Saw this on another site:

The May B2Brs who have TAs have started receiving notices from Disney. This is a copy of what one TA sent their client:

Due to Canadian Custom regulations, they have recently been informed that you will now need to pack and disembark your first sailing before you are able to board your second sailing. They will provide priority boarding for you on the second sailing.

Also, and I’m sorry, I don’t complete understand why and Disney was very vague when I asked questions but due to Canadian Customs regulations, you will not be allowed to have the same stateroom on both sailings. They said they would be heavily fined if this happens.

So it appears some sort of compromise was worked out.

:)

Saw this on another site:

 

The May B2Brs who have TAs have started receiving notices from Disney. This is a copy of what one TA sent their client:

 

Due to Canadian Custom regulations, they have recently been informed that you will now need to pack and disembark your first sailing before you are able to board your second sailing. They will provide priority boarding for you on the second sailing.

 

Also, and I’m sorry, I don’t complete understand why and Disney was very vague when I asked questions but due to Canadian Customs regulations, you will not be allowed to have the same stateroom on both sailings. They said they would be heavily fined if this happens.

 

So it appears some sort of compromise was worked out.

 

:)

Strange.

Behind every law was a problem that seemed to need to be solved. I wonder what the problem was that required them to make you have two separate staterooms in a B2B.

If Disney has found a workaround for the PVSA, then this should be allowed in the future for all other cruise lines, who in the past, made passengers cancel the leg that was in violation.

Saw this on another site:

 

The May B2Brs who have TAs have started receiving notices from Disney. This is a copy of what one TA sent their client:

 

Due to Canadian Custom regulations, they have recently been informed that you will now need to pack and disembark your first sailing before you are able to board your second sailing. They will provide priority boarding for you on the second sailing.

 

Also, and I’m sorry, I don’t complete understand why and Disney was very vague when I asked questions but due to Canadian Customs regulations, you will not be allowed to have the same stateroom on both sailings. They said they would be heavily fined if this happens.

 

So it appears some sort of compromise was worked out.

 

:)

I was reading over on the RCCL boards about the Wonder and the proposed B2B from LA to Seattle so I came over wanting to see what had been told to their passengers. From your posting they are discussing a Canadian Customs regulation which has nothing to do with a US PVSA rule which pertains to the vessel, not the individual cruises. My guess is one of two things are going to happen.

#1 - Passengers will not be allowed to take the second leg, or

#2 - Disney will face at minimum a $300.00 per passenger fine when they arrive in Seattle.

I'll be curious what happens as no other cruise line, all with more experience in Alaska, has been able to get around the PVSA on this type of B2B.

Gregg

I was reading over on the RCCL boards about the Wonder and the proposed B2B from LA to Seattle so I came over wanting to see what had been told to their passengers. From your posting they are discussing a Canadian Customs regulation which has nothing to do with a US PVSA rule which pertains to the vessel, not the individual cruises. My guess is one of two things are going to happen.

 

#1 - Passengers will not be allowed to take the second leg, or

#2 - Disney will face at minimum a $300.00 per passenger fine when they arrive in Seattle.

 

I'll be curious what happens as no other cruise line, all with more experience in Alaska, has been able to get around the PVSA on this type of B2B.

 

Gregg

I don't know of any cruise line has been able to get around the PVSA.

Even they disembark and embark they still are breaking the law . Disney will get the fine when they get to Seattle.

DCL charges enough for their cruises that I don't think they'll be hurting too badly! They'll get socked with the fines again in September, but at least next year's Alaska cruises depart from Vancouver.

I don't know of any cruise line has been able to get around the PVSA.

 

Even they disembark and embark they still are breaking the law . Disney will get the fine when they get to Seattle.

It's my understanding that, typically, these fines are then passed on to the passenger(s) in violation. Is that true?

I don't think that, if DCL does the same, it'll go over real well. DCL is telling everyone that there is no violation, and they will be OK to take both cruises with no problems.

:)

It's my understanding that, typically, these fines are then passed on to the passenger(s) in violation. Is that true?

 

I don't think that, if DCL does the same, it'll go over real well. DCL is telling everyone that there is no violation, and they will be OK to take both cruises with no problems.

 

:)

There's no way DCL would dare charge the passengers the amount of the fine - especially since it's DCL's fault for allowing people to book these b2b cruises.

There's no way DCL would dare charge the passengers the amount of the fine - especially since it's DCL's fault for allowing people to book these b2b cruises.

It'll never get that far.

Bill

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DCL charges enough for their cruises that I don't think they'll be hurting too badly! They'll get socked with the fines again in September, but at least next year's Alaska cruises depart from Vancouver.

You can't knowingly break the law and just agree to pay the fine.

By the time these sailings happen one leg will be cancelled.

Bill

You can't knowingly break the law and just agree to pay the fine.

 

By the time these sailings happen one leg will be cancelled.

 

Bill

These sailings are going to happen this month!

Bill,

You have been the first to bring up the PVSA on CC Roll Call for the Wonder. It seems that the passengers booked B2B are completely unaware, or chose to not bring it up.

I'm really surprised that nothing has happened yet. As stated before, I hope it doesn't come down to passengers not being able to reboard in Vancouver for the May 21 sailing. It is the CBP's call.

This has happened year after year around the Alaska season, and many passengers have had to cancel their legs that were in violation. If Disney gets away with this, I see it opeing the flood gates for all the other cruise lines who were denied in the past.

Disney doesn't think a law is being broken. Some passengers are being told they have to pack up belongings, leave the ship, and not book the same room for the B2B...but, I haven't seen mention of that on the CC Roll Call thread.

It is sad when people on a messege board know the laws better than corporations with legal teams.

I have been watching the Disney Wonder roll call thread, and it doesn't look like anybody is aware of this yet.

 

I think Disney is misinformed about the law, and maybe the CBP won't find out, and the passengers will slide through on the B2B...I hope it doesn't end up them being denied boarding on the Vancouver to Seattle leg.

Maybe I am being paranoid, but could the CBP already know about this situation and is just waiting to drop the hammer on Disney. With the way information is available, it wouldn't suprise me if they already did know. We have heard that cruise lines monitor these boards, so, maybe government agencies do to:eek::D.

Gregg

Gregg,

Hopefully, that won't happen. If they are aware when the ship gets to Seattle, I think they would fine Disney, and it won't be passed on to the passengers. The fine is $300 per person, but since Disney has said over and over that there is not a violation, I really think it would be nasty of them to pass the fine to the passengers.

Normally, in the past, with other cruise lines, passengers were notified a few months in advance, that the leg needed to be cancelled. This happened to friends of mine in 2010. Luckily, Carnival reimbured them $300 to change their flights that were already booked. But, it was still a hassle for them trying to rearrange flights and hotels that were booked.

You are right that all the other major cruise lines that cruise Alaska have usually given their passengers more notice than a few weeks. I also agree that Disney would have a PR nightmare if they tried to charge the passengers the fine. I do wonder if there is a provision in the law for an additional fine for deliberately booking passengers on these cruises. I believe some of the time the fine is done when somebody misses the ship in Key West, which the cruise line didn't intentially cause to happen.

Gregg

Any one doing either the LA/Vancouver-Vancouver/Seattle B2B, or the Seattle/Vancouver-Vancouver/LA B2B, please call DCL and have them confirm that you will be able to do this cruise.

 

It's a violation of the Passenger Vessel Services Act to transport passengers from one US city to a different US city without a distant foreign port. A distant foreign port is defined as any port not in North America or in the Caribbean.

 

While these cruises are 2 separate cruises, the PVSA views them (when done B2B) as one cruse.

 

:)

"Distant foreign port" has a pretty loose definition as it's applied. Cruise lines from the West Coast of the US routinely stop in Ensenada for the day to qualify on a one-way Hawaii voyage.

This is another reason why the PSVA needs to be heavily modified or sent to the breakers. It's intent was to protect US flagged passenger lines. How's that working out?

I'd modify it to apply only to vessels under, say 25,000 tons.

One way trips to Hawaii usually start or end in Ensenada or Vancouver...Round trips from LA or San Diego stop in Ensenada, which is OK, since the RT starts and ends in same US city.

This also happens during the Alaska season from Seattle to Seattle...it has to stop in a Canadian port. But, you cannot have a one way from Seattle to an Alaska port.