Disembarking before final port

[jtl513]

Good idea, but no can do. I got a super air fare many months ago (Seattle to Ft. Lauderdale) from Delta ($125 per person) and it's unrefundable. I'm too cheap to "eat" $250! :o

So you'll be parking your car at Seatac then? Aren't there some kind of buses (or HAL transfers?) between Canada Place and SEA? :confused:

[IRL_Joanie]

We are sailing on the Statendam this spring from Ft. Lauderdale to Vancouver, BC. We actually live in Port Angeles, Washington and the ship is stopping there the day before it docks in Vancouver. We are planning on disembarking in Port Angeles and are running into problems with HAL.

 

Has anyone out there ever disembarked early? We have already made arrangements with U.S. Customs to meet us and clear us upon arriving in P.A. Will we be held captive by HAL in our staterooms if we try to get off early? I'm too old to go to jail. :o

 

I was reading on another website and came across a link that I think explains the Passenger Service Act (PSA) definitively, and believe it or not, it is on a Canadian web site!!

 

Here is the portion that I think is most definitive and why HAL says you cannot get of in Port Angeles:

 

I quote:"A cruise originating in Los Angeles or Seattle and terminating in Whittier is NOT permitted since the cruise originates and terminates in different U.S. cities and does not call at a distant foreign port Distant foreign ports do NOT include Canada, Mexico, Central America, Bermuda and most Caribbean islands. South America and the ABC islands do qualify as distant foreign ports.

In addition, passengers may travel between 2 U.S. ports if they travel on 2 different ships as Passenger Services Act violations are ship-specific. A violation occurs when a ship (not two ships) transports passengers between two different U.S. ports.

Even if the passengers disembark completely from the 1st voyage and then return to the pier to embark the 2nd voyage – it is still a violation of the PSA." Unquote

 

 

To read the full statement/description go here: http://seatravel.wordpress.com/2008/05/08/passenger-services-act-united-states/

 

Joanie

[jtl513]

I think I found the Legal answer

Sorry, but that's not the answer. The cruise will be stopping at Aruba (one of the ABC Islands that does qualify as a distant foreign port) so it is perfectly legal for anyone who was on the ship at the time it stopped at Aruba to subsequently get off at any US port - and many will at San Diego.

 

There is some other reason that HAL does want to let them off at Port Angeles.

[IRL_Joanie]

Sorry, but that's not the answer. The cruise will be stopping at Aruba (one of the ABC Islands that does qualify as a distant foreign port) so it is perfectly legal for anyone who was on the ship at the time it stopped at Aruba to subsequently get off at any US port - and many will at San Diego.

 

There is some other reason that HAL does want to let them off at Port Angeles.

 

 

John, this is what I think speaks clearly as to why they cannot get off in P.A.

 

A violation occurs when a ship (not two ships) transports passengers between two different U.S. ports.

 

Even if the passengers disembark completely from the 1st voyage and then return to the pier to embark the 2nd voyage – it is still a violation of the PSA.

 

This would mean Seattle to P.A. is literally being transported between 2 US Ports. Even if the ship goes to china before going to Seattle, it is still traveling between Seattle and P.A. that violates the PSA.

 

Joanie

[mimigirl54]

So you'll be parking your car at Seatac then? Aren't there some kind of buses (or HAL transfers?) between Canada Place and SEA? :confused:

 

No, we'll have our son shuttle us to the ferry and then our daughter will pick us up and take us to the airport. Or we'll drive our own car, go to her house, pick her up and have her take us to the airport and then keep the car at her house while we're on the cruise.

 

There is a Gray Hound bus from downtown Vancouver to downtown Seattle for around $39.00 if we prebook; it goes up to over $50.00 if we buy tickets the day of.

[jtl513]

John, this is what I think speaks clearly as to why they cannot get off in P.A.

 

A violation occurs when a ship (not two ships) transports passengers between two different U.S. ports.

 

Even if the passengers disembark completely from the 1st voyage and then return to the pier to embark the 2nd voyage – it is still a violation of the PSA.

 

This would mean Seattle to P.A. is literally being transported between 2 US Ports. Even if the ship goes to china before going to Seattle, it is still traveling between Seattle and P.A. that violates the PSA.

 

Joanie

Well, first of all the ship is not going from Seattle to Port Angeles, or Port Angeles to Seattle. After the Panama Canal transit and a few stops in Central America and Mexico, the ship stops at San Diego, Port Angeles, and then ends its voyage in Vancouver. But regardless - as RuthC said in post #40 of this thread:

The PVSA is only concerned with the ports where the passenger first embarks, and leaves the ship for the final time, and what foreign ports the ship has stopped at in between. In OP's case, boarding is in Ft. Lauderdale, proposed disembarkation is Port Angeles, and the ship will stop at a distant foreign port.

There does not appear to by any violation of the PVSA.

San Diego is not the end of one voyage and start of another for the OP. It is merely a stop along the way. If the OP were boarding in San Diego she could not get off in Port Angeles without violating the PVSA, but that's not the case here.

 

As I said, there is some other reason that HAL is saying that she can not get off at Port Angeles ... possibly just a misunderstanding by someone at HAL HQ, or possibly a difference in the port fees that HAL would have to pay to debark passengers at P.A. as someone suggested above.

[mimigirl54]

Well....my husband talked to Port Angeles Customs today and they said the law that applies to transporting passengers between U.S. ports is "archaic" (or something like that) and won't affect us. They tried calling HA, but couldn't get through and the Port Director is going to try again. He said if anyone levied a fine it would come from Customs, and they won't do that, so it's looking like we'll get off here in deed! At least that's the news as of 5:58 on 12/2!

[jtl513]

... so it's looking like we'll get off here in deed! At least that's the news as of 5:58 on 12/2!

Good news! :)

[mimigirl54]

Here's the next installment. DH talked to the Port Director today. He (PD) called HA and got the same run around we've been getting. So.....I just sent a very long, very detailed to HA asking them for either permission to disembark or a reasonable reason as to why they are being so stubborn! (Well, I didn't use those EXACT words, but you get my drift)

 

It will be interesting to see what they say.

[gentlemancruiser]

Well....my husband talked to Port Angeles Customs today and they said the law that applies to transporting passengers between U.S. ports is "archaic" (or something like that) and won't affect us. They tried calling HA, but couldn't get through and the Port Director is going to try again. He said if anyone levied a fine it would come from Customs, and they won't do that, so it's looking like we'll get off here in deed! At least that's the news as of 5:58 on 12/2!

 

Have you looked into the CoHo ferry, Victoria as an option? There is a Pacific Coach bus that takes you from Vancouver to Victoria, you ferry across to PA.

 

http://www.pacificcoach.com/SchedulesFares/VancouvertoVictoria

[mimigirl54]

Have you looked into the CoHo ferry, Victoria as an option? There is a Pacific Coach bus that takes you from Vancouver to Victoria, you ferry across to PA.

 

http://www.pacificcoach.com/SchedulesFares/VancouvertoVictoria

 

I thought about that, but with our daughter living in Seattle and our son living in PA (who would come pick us up at the ferry) I think that would be easier. That said.....I just want to go home when we get to Port Angeles on the ship! :(

[mimigirl54]

RuthC:

 

This has nothing to do with the subject at hand...I just want to say: I hope we end up on the same cruise sometime! You look like a really fun lady.

[RuthC]

RuthC:

 

This has nothing to do with the subject at hand...I just want to say: I hope we end up on the same cruise sometime! You look like a really fun lady.

Ooooo. Thanks! :) It would be my pleasure.

(and I think I'm kind of fun; so do the grandgirls ;). the other grandmas don't want them to get in trouble; I show them how to get out of it. :o)

 

Hope this all works out for you. The letter to HAL asking for a reasonable explanation was a good idea.

[mimigirl54]

Ooooo. Thanks! :) It would be my pleasure.

(and I think I'm kind of fun; so do the grandgirls ;). the other grandmas don't want them to get in trouble; I show them how to get out of it. :o)

 

Hope this all works out for you. The letter to HAL asking for a reasonable explanation was a good idea.

 

By the way, what does the "10,000 + club" refer to? Nights you've spent on a ship?

[RuthC]

By the way, what does the "10,000 + club" refer to? Nights you've spent on a ship?

LOL! I wish it were nights on a ship (but I'm working on it).

All the "10,000 + club" means is that I have far too much time on my hands, and spend it posting here. Keep at it and you can join the club, too. It's not at all exclusive.

[English_in_Spain]

Here's the next installment. DH talked to the Port Director today. He (PD) called HA and got the same run around we've been getting. So.....I just sent a very long, very detailed to HA asking them for either permission to disembark or a reasonable reason as to why they are being so stubborn! (Well, I didn't use those EXACT words, but you get my drift)

 

It will be interesting to see what they say.

 

Please let us know what the outcome is.

 

I am interested in case it affects my cruise next May. I am doing a B2B2B (total 33 days) and if they say I cannot disembark in Alicante I will cancel the cruise.

[mimigirl54]

No reply from HA yet. Don't know if that's good news or bad news.....

[RuthC]

At least it's the lack of bad news. And that's good news for now. :)

[mimigirl54]

Here's the reply I finally received from HA:

 

"Thank you for your recent correspondence with Holland America Line regarding the disembarkation of the Statendam, April 25, 2010 voyage in Port Angeles, WA. Our Ship Inventory Department who is responsible for obtaining permission for special embarkation/disembarkation requests has advised us they are trying to get special permission for you to debark on May 15, 2010 in Port Angeles. At this time the Port Operations has advised us we cannot allow the disembarkation, regardless of whether US Border Patrol allows it or not. However, our Ship Inventory has advised us they are pursuing obtaining permission which may take a while, if it?s approved at all. We cannot guarantee it will be approved."

 

They then said they would let us know at some undefined point in the future. Actually they said they would tell our travel agent. Since our "travel agent" is an on-line booking source and I have no relationship with an individual there I asked if they would fax the information to me as well. Have to wait and see what they say about that.

 

I would, however, like to say at this time that I'm sorry for all my complaining and moaning about this situation. I'm a Christian, and God has pointed out that very few people in the world are able to take a cruise like this, and I need to be grateful and appreciative about it no matter where I get off the ship. And, as my DH says, "If we have to get off in Vancouver we'll have one more day of vacation!"

 

So, no matter what HA's final decision is, we're going, we'll have a marvelous time, and I'm looking forward to it. Thanks to all of you who contributed to this board and if we ever do, in fact, get a final decision I'll let you know what it is!

[IRL_Joanie]

Here's the reply I finally received from HA:

 

"Thank you for your recent correspondence with Holland America Line regarding the disembarkation of the Statendam, April 25, 2010 voyage in Port Angeles, WA. Our Ship Inventory Department who is responsible for obtaining permission for special embarkation/disembarkation requests has advised us they are trying to get special permission for you to debark on May 15, 2010 in Port Angeles. At this time the Port Operations has advised us we cannot allow the disembarkation, regardless of whether US Border Patrol allows it or not. However, our Ship Inventory has advised us they are pursuing obtaining permission which may take a while, if it?s approved at all. We cannot guarantee it will be approved."

 

They then said they would let us know at some undefined point in the future. Actually they said they would tell our travel agent. Since our "travel agent" is an on-line booking source and I have no relationship with an individual there I asked if they would fax the information to me as well. Have to wait and see what they say about that.

 

I would, however, like to say at this time that I'm sorry for all my complaining and moaning about this situation. I'm a Christian, and God has pointed out that very few people in the world are able to take a cruise like this, and I need to be grateful and appreciative about it no matter where I get off the ship. And, as my DH says, "If we have to get off in Vancouver we'll have one more day of vacation!"

 

So, no matter what HA's final decision is, we're going, we'll have a marvelous time, and I'm looking forward to it. Thanks to all of you who contributed to this board and if we ever do, in fact, get a final decision I'll let you know what it is!

 

 

mimigirl54 it is good to hear that HAL is trying to work for you!!

 

And you are so right, about the blessings of an extra day of vacation, if necessary:)

 

Joanie

[bishop84]

We are sailing on the Statendam this spring from Ft. Lauderdale to Vancouver, BC. We actually live in Port Angeles, Washington and the ship is stopping there the day before it docks in Vancouver. We are planning on disembarking in Port Angeles and are running into problems with HAL.

 

Has anyone out there ever disembarked early? We have already made arrangements with U.S. Customs to meet us and clear us upon arriving in P.A. Will we be held captive by HAL in our staterooms if we try to get off early? I'm too old to go to jail. :o

 

At what level at HAL are you discussing this with? I would suggest you ask to be connected to a supervisor or higher and sort this situation out.

If you have arranged through the Port Angeles Customs office to be cleared there should not be a problem, maybe you can get something in writing from CBP to send to HAL?

 

In the past I have seen a lot of confusion with the Passenger Services Act with Travel Agents, Cruise Lines and even Customs Officers getting confused. As there is probably a change of passengers in San Diego whoever you spoke to at HAL may just looking at the voyage as San Diego to Port Angeles which would be in violation of the act and not the entire voyage from Fort Lauderdale.

[mimigirl54]

At what level at HAL are you discussing this with? I would suggest you ask to be connected to a supervisor or higher and sort this situation out.

If you have arranged through the Port Angeles Customs office to be cleared there should not be a problem, maybe you can get something in writing from CBP to send to HAL?

 

In the past I have seen a lot of confusion with the Passenger Services Act with Travel Agents, Cruise Lines and even Customs Officers getting confused. As there is probably a change of passengers in San Diego whoever you spoke to at HAL may just looking at the voyage as San Diego to Port Angeles which would be in violation of the act and not the entire voyage from Fort Lauderdale.

 

I've talked to supervisors. In the email I quote in a previous post they said that the situation has nothing to do with Border Patrol (I think they mean Customs). But they are trying to get an ok for us.

[Max2003]

I don't mean to muddy the water, but what are the ramifications of joining the ship at a later port. The case in point is that one of the party would like to join an eastbound transatlantic cruise on the European side and avoid the long days at sea. The other party would enjoy the whole cruise. I understand that both parties would have to book and pay for the entire cruise. It seems that where you board has much less to do with this problem than where you disembark, except the issue of any change in the through status of the ship and fees generated thereby.

And I realize in this case we are not dealing with the Jones Act foolishness.

 

Has anyone ever done this voluntarily?? I know there are many who have been forced to join at a later port because they missed the ship for various reasons.

 

Interesting topic.

[mimigirl54]

Happy day, happy day! I just received an email from our on-line booking agent telling us our request to disembark in Port Angeles has been approved by HAL!!!!! I'm a very happy camper.....er, sailor, I mean. :D

[jtl513]

Wahoo! Persistence paid off! :):)