Europeans (and Brits), Me & Gratuities

[Denny01]

So after 100 posts, every European/Brit poster, including ones that are about to cruise for the first time, are all well aware of the gratuities, all but one (or 2?) plan on using the prepay or the onboard autopay. A few have said how they'd like to pay cash directly to the staff, but are still going to use the Celebrity process. Oh, and some think all would be well if they renamed the gratuity. And a few others think it should be rolled into the base cost and the Line increase the staff pay, ignoring that all Lines would be required to change to this at the same time, and if not we’d then see Celebrity’s stateroom costs $100 or so more than the other lines because we’d not be comparing apples-to-apples.

Oh, and by the way, the real tipping-culprits are Americans vacationing in Europe. Right.

I’ll tell my daughter who worked as a waitress while in college that it was just in her mind that almost every time she served Euro’s, they’d either did not leave anything or they left a few coins and a dollar that was change from the $100’s to pay the $98.75 bill. There, that should result in another 100+ posts!

But in truth, except for a few who apparently enjoy handing over cash, most of us, North Americans, Euro’s Brits, Auzzies (Kiwi’s and any of our South American, Asian, Indian, African friends out there?) all use the auto and pre pay approach.

And Bob, of the staff we’ve talked with, a few are married to a staff person, but many have either wife/husband and kids, and the singles have parents and extended family that depend on them financially.

Denny

[bobbyleduck]

And Bob, of the staff we’ve talked with, a few are married to a staff person, but many have either wife/husband and kids, and the singles have parents and extended family that depend on them financially.

Denny

 

Hi, Denny:

 

You know this to be so, because those hard working, totally honest, waiters and stewards told you so. Let's be real! Those people learn or are taught, just as waiters and waitresses in restaurants, how to maximize tips, and a good sob-story has been known to go a long way when it accompanies good service. I would never tip based upon the word of the people being tipped. I tip because I tip, but no hard-luck story would ever separate me from my money. If I wish to donate to a cause, I donate to a cause, but my tips are not donations.

 

And, I would never tell others how to tip, either more or less than what they believe is correct.

 

Happy cruising to all!

 

Bob

[Denny01]

Hi Bob

 

you mean someone lied to me and told me a sob story to 'work me'? Oh nooooo. Hold on, I tip because of good service and know that is part of their income as it was my daughter - right or wrong. I don't tip to save the poor.

 

Hope we meet up sometime on a cruise - think it'd be much more fun face-face instead of this infernal typing, especiaaly one my iPhone - yes Im an addict.

 

Den

[FinelyCruising]

Hi Bob

 

you mean someone lied to me and told me a sob story to 'work me'? Oh nooooo. Hold on, I tip because of good service and know that is part of their income as it was my daughter - right or wrong. I don't tip to save the poor.

 

Hope we meet up sometime on a cruise - think it'd be much more fun face-face instead of this infernal typing, especiaaly one my iPhone - yes Im an addict.

 

Den

 

I confess sometimes on a iPhone too. Yup we have issues.:D

[Garibo]

I’ll tell my daughter who worked as a waitress while in college that it was just in her mind that almost every time she served Euro’s, they’d either did not leave anything or they left a few coins and a dollar that was change from the $100’s to pay the $98.75 bill.

 

To be honest she should be glad of any tip. A tip is something that shouldn't be expected.

I actually find it quite arrogant and rude that someone is annoyed at not getting a "big enough tip".

 

No offence to your daughter.

[FinelyCruising]

My wife and I, as I have indicated previously, live on about $1,000 a month, and that includes paying for all of those things mentioned. Of our approximately $2,400 a month net, we also save $1,000 a month and contribute $400 a month to the upkeep of my dear MIL. We're also able to go on cruises and other vacations as well. We have no debt, and paid for our home in two years, 14 years ago.

 

Yes! I know, that I'm better at handling money than are most people, and that is why I work as a full-time, volunteer, personal finance educator, but if we can do that then others can live on more than three times the amount we do. In fact, I believe there are more people who do as well or better than we do than you'd imagine.

 

Happy cruising to all!

 

Bob

 

Bob - Your $2,400 a month is very close to the $3,000 that is monthly in the example give. I have found though that many of the people we have spoken with over time are married, more often than not. They are much younger than we are, so the liklihood of them having a home paid in full, is unlikely, chances are they are paying rent some where or paying toward and extended family home. I think in many intstances due to their culture and upbringing that are taking care of parents as you are yours along with their own young children and their needs.

 

Like many working parents they need every penny they can get.

[brfan]

Wrong! There is no pooling of tips.

 

brfan: You said, "How do you know it is tax free? I'm sure many if not all crew members must pay a tax in their home country on the income they earn. Plus they may have free housing, etc, on the ship, but they have all those costs to pay at home."

 

I know, because Bob Dickinson, former president and CEO of Carnival reported such in his book "$elling the $eas." What if the cruise ship is their home? If you pay close attention, you'll find that most of these people are single, or attached to someone aboard ship, and the ship is their home.

 

Happy cruising to all!

 

Bob

 

Sorry, but I find that unbelievable that either you or Bob would know the tax laws of every country that these crew members are from and can say that they do not have to report or pay tax on their income. Plus their ship is their home for the length of their contract and then they go home to their own country for their holidays. Plus not all crew members are single or attached to someone on the ship...many have spouses/children back home they are supporting. Plus a relationship on a ship would be very hard as it is unlikely that the cruiseline would try to keep them together as they are sent where they are needed not by who they are sleeping with. :rolleyes:

[Waterlily777]

Why do you assume that Brits don't tip? On P&O the tips are left up to the passenger, the cruise line gives a guideline, the passengers give the tip in cash. We just don't make it a crusade like the Americans do. We certainly don't tip as much as US people & don't expect children & babies to tip. Any tip we give is for service as a real tip, not a service charge. You could say that the cruise line trusts us to do it as they don't charge it to our accounts like =X=!! As far as I know it is only North Americans that tip to the degree that they do.

 

Rather than relying on the assertions of CC posters as to the relative difference in tipping habits of UK cruisers, here is a statement by the RCI Vice-President and UK managing director.

 

October, 2009:

 

"Robin Shaw, the company’s [Royal Caribbean International] vice president and UK managing director, claimed that the disparity between UK and US passengers existed because of the large difference in tipping culture between the two countries.

 

Mr. Shaw said that the cruise line is presently evaluating its options, adding that gratuities are an important part of the salary for the onboard staff. He also said that when a cruise has a large group of UK vacationers on board, the remuneration pales in comparison to when the ship has large North American contingencies."

 

http://www.eturbonews.com/12241/royal-caribbean-cheap-brits-are-poor-tippers

 

I include this for information only, and because it quotes a semi-authoritative source, rather than what we usually see...the opinions of individual posters. I do not include it to cast any aspersions, as I do not doubt for an instant that most of our Brit friends that post here DO tip as they have posted.

-

[FinelyCruising]

Well then it seems they (UK X) understand the issues. They may have to make an adjustment in renumeration when there is this disparity known at the time of sailing.

[Seanster]

Rather than relying on the assertions of CC posters as to the relative difference in tipping habits of UK cruisers, here is a statement by the RCI Vice-President and UK managing director.

 

October, 2009:

 

"Robin Shaw, the company’s [Royal Caribbean International] vice president and UK managing director, claimed that the disparity between UK and US passengers existed because of the large difference in tipping culture between the two countries.

 

Mr. Shaw said that the cruise line is presently evaluating its options, adding that gratuities are an important part of the salary for the onboard staff. He also said that when a cruise has a large group of UK vacationers on board, the remuneration pales in comparison to when the ship has large North American contingencies."

 

http://www.eturbonews.com/12241/royal-caribbean-cheap-brits-are-poor-tippers

 

-

 

The proverbial "smoking gun." Interesting quote.

[ShareViews]

Rather than relying on the assertions of CC posters as to the relative difference in tipping habits of UK cruisers, here is a statement by the RCI Vice-President and UK managing director.

 

October, 2009:

 

"Robin Shaw, the company’s [Royal Caribbean International] vice president and UK managing director, claimed that the disparity between UK and US passengers existed because of the large difference in tipping culture between the two countries.

 

Mr. Shaw said that the cruise line is presently evaluating its options, adding that gratuities are an important part of the salary for the onboard staff. He also said that when a cruise has a large group of UK vacationers on board, the remuneration pales in comparison to when the ship has large North American contingencies."

 

http://www.eturbonews.com/12241/royal-caribbean-cheap-brits-are-poor-tippers

 

I include this for information only, and because it quotes a semi-authoritative source, rather than what we usually see...the opinions of individual posters. I do not include it to cast any aspersions, as I do not doubt for an instant that most of our Brit friends that post here DO tip as they have posted.

-

 

Thanks Waterlily. I have been looking long and hard to find the source of my information about tipping customs referred to in my OP. It could have been from CruiseWeek or Cruise Log USA Today but in essence what I read was very much the same as above.

 

Like you, and as I indicated in an earlier post, I am not Brits/European bashing. I was more concerned with finding out if the allegation was true and then to decide how I should position myself.

 

As I said, tipping is fine with me and I'll very likely do the same on this trip. I have the funds.

 

This has been a very interesting discussion - give and take a few contradicting opinions. Someone shoudl tip me for having initiated it!!!

[Waterlily777]

Thanks Waterlily. I have been looking long and hard to find the source of my information about tipping customs referred to in my OP. It could have been from CruiseWeek or Cruise Log USA Today but in essence what I read was very much the same as above.

 

Like you, and as I indicated in an earlier post, I am not Brits/European bashing. I was more concerned with finding out if the allegation was true and then to decide how I should position myself.

 

As I said, tipping is fine with me and I'll very likely do the same on this trip. I have the funds.

 

This has been a very interesting discussion - give and take a few contradicting opinions. Someone shoudl tip me for having initiated it!!!

 

As a North American, I just pay my recommended tips, and add extra where the service warrants it.

 

I consider the recommended gratuity amounts to be part of the basic cruise costs. Anything extra is given to show our appreciation for excellent service, when we have always had on Celebrity.

 

I don't measure my tipping behaviour in terms of what UK or Australian or NZ guests tip. As long as they understand that 98% of service staff wages come from tips, then they are free to make their own decisions.

 

But I will pop in and offer information if they ask questions about tipping, or don't appear to understand that RCCL/Celebrity tipped staff only receive a stipend of $50 per month and rely on "gratuities" for the rest of their wages.

[Denny01]

To be honest she should be glad of any tip. A tip is something that shouldn't be expected. I actually find it quite arrogant and rude that someone is annoyed at not getting a "big enough tip".

 

No offense to your daughter.

 

My daughter would provide the professional service to you, the person who would stiff her just as she'd provide to the person who understands the basics of the economics - no one even mentioned anyone being annoyed at not being tipped. See ran into it all the time and jsut wrote it off to someone who wasn't brought up properly. I have a feeling you use those terms so you can feel self-rightous when you do stiff the waitstaff that provides you the service and are making under minimum wage, but of course that's not your issue and she took that job knowing she'd make under minimum and would run into your type of cheapsake every once in a while.

 

And don't worry, you can tell us all about the waiter who didn't immediately fill your water glass after you took one sip, so you don't tip him either.

 

Denny

[ShareViews]

As a North American, I just pay my recommended tips, and add extra where the service warrants it.

 

I consider the recommended gratuity amounts to be part of the basic cruise costs. Anything extra is given to show our appreciation for excellent service, when we have always had on Celebrity.

 

I don't measure my tipping behaviour in terms of what UK or Australian or NZ guests tip. As long as they understand that 98% of service staff wages come from tips, then they are free to make their own decisions.

 

But I will pop in and offer information if they ask questions about tipping, or don't appear to understand that RCCL/Celebrity tipped staff only receive a stipend of $50 per month and rely on "gratuities" for the rest of their wages.

 

 

I suppose I could say that I don't need to know or care what you do. The ball is in my court. On the other hand, do forgive me if I have misinterpreted what you are saying.

[Waterlily777]

I suppose I could say that I don't need to know or care what you do. The ball is in my court. On the other hand, do forgive me if I have misinterpreted what you are saying.

 

Woah...consider me solidly smacked upside the head.

 

I don't know what you think I'm saying, but I can assure you it wasn't anything that would have been reason for your reply.

[bobbyleduck]

Hi Bob

 

you mean someone lied to me and told me a sob story to 'work me'? Oh nooooo. Hold on, I tip because of good service and know that is part of their income as it was my daughter - right or wrong. I don't tip to save the poor.

 

Hope we meet up sometime on a cruise - think it'd be much more fun face-face instead of this infernal typing, especiaaly one my iPhone - yes Im an addict.

 

Den

 

Denny:

 

I, too, hope we meet on the high seas, because even if we have a difference of opinion, we both enjoy cruising and that truly makes meeting on a cruise ship something special.

 

Take care.

 

Happy cruising to all!

 

Bob

[Happy Cruiser 6143]

I don't think this is true, the pool part. There may be some trickle down to some other less obvious staff, but amounts conveyed to the wait staff for example, do indeed go directly to them. Ditto for the cabin staff.

 

Well, I get that you choose not to believe it, but nontheless, it has been reliably reported in one of the other thousands of threads on tipping that it is so.

[Happy Cruiser 6143]

Wrong! There is no pooling of tips.

 

brfan: You said, "How do you know it is tax free? I'm sure many if not all crew members must pay a tax in their home country on the income they earn. Plus they may have free housing, etc, on the ship, but they have all those costs to pay at home."

 

I know, because Bob Dickinson, former president and CEO of Carnival reported such in his book "$elling the $eas." What if the cruise ship is their home? If you pay close attention, you'll find that most of these people are single, or attached to someone aboard ship, and the ship is their home.

 

Happy cruising to all!

 

Bob

 

Bob, we really don't care what they do on Carnival. On Celebrity, they do have to turn in their cash if the customer has removed the auto tips.

[uktog]

On Celebrity they do not have turn it their tips - we have had that confirmed by two separate Hotel Directors

 

Interesting note from X UK - I have no problem if they wrap the tips into the price or whatever they want to do, what I do want to stop is this second class treatment that is creeping in from crew who automatically assume if its a brit I wount look after them so well because I am less likely to see a tip

[emptynest1]

I asked this question on another endless "discussion" on tipping.

 

Does anyone really know who tips, how much, and what is the percentage of "poorly raised" people out there who don't tip at all??????

 

These tipping threads are full of generalizations and unjustified opinions on the state of tipping with everyone always saying they tip generously while adding their comments.

 

What are the actual numbers, percentages and (wait for it) the nationalities of those not tipping?

[FinelyCruising]

Well, I get that you choose not to believe it, but nontheless, it has been reliably reported in one of the other thousands of threads on tipping that it is so.

 

I think you may be misinterpreting pools, such as bar servers/cocktail waiters/waitress where an automatic 15% is added to the bill, or Select Dining, or potentially Specialty Dining, but no, MDR waiters and cabin stewards are not pooled. They are direct amounts to those people. They may pay out to some more behind the scenes support staff, but they are not part of pool as you suggest.

[bobbyleduck]

Bob, we really don't care what they do on Carnival. On Celebrity, they do have to turn in their cash if the customer has removed the auto tips.

 

As posted by many others. No, they do not pool their tips, whether in cash or auto tips.

 

Happy cruising to all!

 

Bob

[shipshape sam]

I would be interested to know how crew members feel about 'sailing' on itineraries that by 'custom' do not tip if that is the case and the cruise line does not compensate.

[Xain]

I have worked as a bartender in Thailand,Costa Rica,Oregon,California,and Currently in Miami.

 

when it comes to tipping it is in my book, a FACT that the Majority (60-70% depending on the venue) of Europeans do not tip when there is no gratuity included on the check, and when gratuity is included, ask if it is mandatory.

READ: 60-70% is NOT ALL Europeans. if you are European and DO TIP, that means you are the 30-40%

 

As for people from the US, I would say the Majority (70-80% depending on the venue) DO TIP. and many times tip above the suggested 15-20%

 

heres where it gets sticky(er) within the US demographic there's the inner-city African American culture and 80-90% of the time they do NOT tip

 

READ: 80-90% is NOT ALL of said demographic. if you are of the 'inner-city African American culture' and DO TIP, that means you are the 10-20%

 

 

I currently work in a MAJOR hotel in a very popular US city, and we include an automatic gratuity of 18% on every check.

 

the TIPPED EMPLOYEE minimum wage is $4.19 in the state of FL

and therefore we depend on those tips.

YES, some of you may see it as YOU PAYING OUR WAGE....THIS IS THE COMPANIES POLICY!!! NOT OURS!!!! IF YOU DO NOT LIKE TO TIP OR HAVE A PROBLEM WITH BEING THE ONES TO MAKE OUR PAYCHECK then DO NOT SUPPORT OUR EMPLOYERS WITH YOUR BUSINESS....and if you are US residents, do what you can to raise the tipped employee minimum wage.(get involved in local politics)

 

 

A NOTE:

this last part of the post is written assuming the tipped employees are at very least doing their job and providing the consumer with the level of service the employer dictates.

 

 

I Myself have just recently been on my first cruise. (Carnival: Destiny)

and the Bar service was DISGUSTING*. the rest of the staff where Awesome and catered to our every need.

 

*by disgusting i mean no smiles, inconsistent drinks, much longer than reasonable wait times, many mistakes, hardly spoke basic English language, and were very rude to some guests asking very easy-basic questions regarding the cruise and event schedule. (ie "what time do we get to Key west?" "I don't know! go ask someone else!")

 

 

 

 

What do you think?

[C 2 C]

I have worked as a bartender in Thailand,Costa Rica,Oregon,California,and Currently in Miami.

 

when it comes to tipping it is in my book, a FACT that the Majority (60-70% depending on the venue) of Europeans do not tip when there is no gratuity included on the check, and when gratuity is included, ask if it is mandatory.

 

 

What do you think?

 

Since this is your first post, wear your asbestos suit and have the fire extinguisher ready. If the thread was not hot before, some are about to go ballistic. Thanks for your view point from the other side of the bar. I know that I'm happy that I've never had to depend on the generosity of others for my livelihood.