Europeans (and Brits), Me & Gratuities

[UKBayern]

All the usual misconceptions about tipping in Europe are flying about on this post again. Just about all Europeans tip. In fact, in our experience in the service industry in Europe, the only ones who generally don't tip are the Americans and Canadians. They read or hear all these fairytale stories about service personnel earning this great wage and don't leave a dime. German waiters are not well salaried, and nor are those in other countries. Everybody tips in Germany, by rounding the billed amount up. Every Italian, French, Spanish who stand at the bar drinking a quick coffee will leave a coin on the bar on exit. Every waiter in the whole of Europe considers it rude when he just delivered above average or even outstanding service that people exit without even leaving a coin on the table. Unfortunately, in our experience, the largest group guilty of such behaviour are North-Americans. A tip is expected, as long as the service was not bad. Not tipping in Europe is saying you found the service lousy.

 

There is another much more important thing to consider: Europeans pay much much more than Americans and Canadians for their cruise. In some cases it can be as much as $1000 or even a few thousand $ more for exactly the same cabin on the same cruise. Europeans regard this as an injustice and will therefore remove their automatic tips, not realising it is the staff that suffer first and foremost, not the cruise line. The cruise lines only step in financially when the tipping pool drops below an unacceptable level. For a useful discussion on this, read this thread:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1155847

There you will find that Australians have the same problem, and a manager of one of the cruise lines explains how the tipping- and pricing policy of the cruise lines work out in practice. One Australian lady was even charged $6400 more for her balcony cabin than an American. In such cases, it is not a surprise that people will not tip as they feel they are already (over)paying for service.

[swigso]

I am British and have pre-paid my tips.

 

What I cannot stand is all the whinging by cruisers who know exactly what is the norm then complain all day long about tipping . Please stay at home and spare the rest of us .

 

Scotslizzy

 

Agree completely about the moaners, also as more opt for select dining, prepaid tips are automatic.

[jackdiamond]

You may simply avoid being a cheapskate by not removing the auto tip; and, then you may wish to tip additionally for excellent service. Of course, if you do select dining then there is no problem since your tips will be automatically prepaid.

[Happy Cruiser 6143]

As a Brit who always tips generously, I resent your generalization. However I do wish cruise lines would start calling it a service charge and make it mandatory thereby putting an end to this constantly repeated silly discussion.

 

AMEN!!! Are you listening, Celebrity?

[Tinklebut]

As a Brit who always tips generously, I resent your generalization. However I do wish cruise lines would start calling it a service charge and make it mandatory thereby putting an end to this constantly repeated silly discussion.

 

Hear , hear :mad: I get fed up with this subject coming up time after time and some people assuming we Brits don't tip. If I get good service then fine but YES I do find it hard to accept when you have pre-paid and you get poor service (fortunately hasn't happend on a cruise to date) :)

[Johnthed0g]

I bet we don't tip as much to as many people as the Americans & without a guideline from the cruise company I would have NO idea how much to give. If it was just a tip as a way of saying thank you I would probably leave about £10 if I had not been told how much was expected!! I really do think that the amounts paid as tips by Americans are very high...on our Eclipse cruise of 4 nights our tip bill will be about $100 + all the 15%'s on top of the drinks. My view is if it is charged to your account it's a service charge, if it is something you choose to give on your own it's a tip. I think the system of the passengers being embarrassed into paying towards the staff wages is a ludicrous situation.

[cruie4ever]

Just to clarify one point: I did not assume that Brits do not tip. I picked up the matter from the cruise travel publications that people in Europe do not tip as North Americans do. Therefore, the cruise lines will have make up salaries. There was a suggestion that perhaps the cruise lines will have to include the gratuity as part of the cruise price in that region.

 

As I indicated, I have always paid the gratuity where, presumably, most people did. This case is different in that most, by custom, will not. So the question to myself is: If most do not, why should I? Won't the cruise line make up salary difference anyway?

 

 

My thanks for your surprisingly quick responses although some seem to have been given too quickly.

 

If you do a google search on tiping in european countries you will find lists of recommended tiping .As a example, I do know that Italians don't generally tip taxi drivers,yet in Italy we did tip them for good service ,especially handling our luggage .In restaurnats in Italy & other parts of europe the tip is automatically added into the bill .If you have had extra good service then leave a few additional coins on the table.

[ellasnan]

We too are British and have pre paid our tips....The thing the Americans have too remember is that if we were to pay cash at the end of the trip if the dollar drops we end up paying far more than actually recommended...If we had to pay $253 at ROE of $2=£1 we are paying £126.5 ..but as todays ROE is $1.454 we would pay £174...... So we have to pay £47 more or at todays ROE $68.34 more....That is when we find it expensive. That is why it is better for us to prepay!! But we don't underpay our staff and expect them to earn tips to survive, their tips are their bonus....

 

I've just been out for lunch and left a tip of 10pc.We were only in for 45 minutes. I thought that was OK...

[I&J Cruisers]

I wish the cruise lines would stop calling the automatic gratuity added to the daily charges what is really is, a service charge. Then we could tip for exceptional service like we always did and put all these endless discussions to bed.

[cruie4ever]

All the usual misconceptions about tipping in Europe are flying about on this post again. Just about all Europeans tip. In fact, in our experience in the service industry in Europe, the only ones who generally don't tip are the Americans and Canadians. They read or hear all these fairytale stories about service personnel earning this great wage and don't leave a dime. German waiters are not well salaried, and nor are those in other countries. Everybody tips in Germany, by rounding the billed amount up. Every Italian, French, Spanish who stand at the bar drinking a quick coffee will leave a coin on the bar on exit. Every waiter in the whole of Europe considers it rude when he just delivered above average or even outstanding service that people exit without even leaving a coin on the table. Unfortunately, in our experience, the largest group guilty of such behaviour are North-Americans. A tip is expected, as long as the service was not bad. Not tipping in Europe is saying you found the service lousy.

 

There is another much more important thing to consider: Europeans pay much much more than Americans and Canadians for their cruise. In some cases it can be as much as $1000 or even a few thousand $ more for exactly the same cabin on the same cruise. Europeans regard this as an injustice and will therefore remove their automatic tips, not realising it is the staff that suffer first and foremost, not the cruise line. The cruise lines only step in financially when the tipping pool drops below an unacceptable level. For a useful discussion on this, read this thread:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1155847

There you will find that Australians have the same problem, and a manager of one of the cruise lines explains how the tipping- and pricing policy of the cruise lines work out in practice. One Australian lady was even charged $6400 more for her balcony cabin than an American. In such cases, it is not a surprise that people will not tip as they feel they are already (over)paying for service.

 

It is difficult to comprehend why cruise lines would chrage you that much more than us in the US pay . Have you considered the differences in the exchange rates between the dollar & the GBP or Euro when figuring your costs ??

[moondoggie]

When we travel in Europe, we follow the local tipping customs, as we realize that in many countries the 'tip/service charge/whatever you want to call it' is built in to the cost of the meal (other than the small change/euro that is left on the table).

 

When Brits or Europeans or ANYONE ELSE choose to cruise where local custom dictates that 'tip/service charge/whatever you want to call it' be added, it should be followed, because the recipients aren't getting the same kind of pay they would get if they were working in a country where meals are more expensive to cover these fees.

 

Regarding cabin attendants, I always leave a tip, esp in less expensive hotels/motels. Those people aren't well paid to be begin with, and we feel they deserve more than they are getting paid.

 

Nuff said.

[English Tim]

I'm a Brit and have also paid up front, but this is clearly a huge problem for cruises departing from UK ports.

[diligaf51]

I will be traveling to England, France, Spain and Italy on an upcoming cruise. What amount should I tip in each country. As an american, I do get conflicting reports so please set me straight. Thanks

[UKBayern]

It is difficult to comprehend why cruise lines would chrage you that much more than us in the US pay . Have you considered the differences in the exchange rates between the dollar & the GBP or Euro when figuring your costs ??

 

Yes we have.

 

Re your other, earlier, comment: the service charge on your italian restaurant bill goes to the owner of the restaurant and goes towards paying wages.

That is so to speak the putting bread on the table of the waiter. He needs your tips to pay for butter.

To re-iterate: NO TIP in Europe is tantamount to saying that the service was lousy :eek: . We would recommend a little tip (Depending on the amount you spend, but just rounding upwards a bit) for standard service, a bit more for the good service we all expect, and 15 or even 20 % if they blow you away with the quality of both food and service.

 

North-Americans (many of them) ARE being cheapskates in Europe because somehow they have come to believe, and keep convincing one another mutually, that hotel and restaurant staff have big fat paychecks and do not need tips, and do not appreciate your complimenting their service. We both have over 15 year's experience in the European hotel and tourism business, we know that the worst tippers are mostly from the US, with Canada a close second.

We can think of no explanation for this unfounded and seemingly uneradicable belief that EU waitstaff and service staff are rich as Croesus anyway, and do not deserve one penny more.

That this misconception is almost hardwired and generally not open for discussion we find disappionting.

[Garibo]

The thing about tips on American cruise lines is that they are not tips. A tip is something you give somebody as a reward for good or excellent service(read: above what is expected), not something that should be forced upon you to subsidise substandard wages.

 

The number of times I've read people complain about lousy service yet saying they continue to tip that person, baffles me. Anybody care to explain?

[UKBayern]

The thing about tips on American cruise lines is that they are not tips. A tip is something you give somebody as a reward for good or excellent service(read: above what is expected), not something that should be forced upon you to subsidise substandard wages.

 

The number of times I've read people complain about lousy service yet saying they continue to tip that person, baffles me. Anybody care to explain?

 

What is called "Tips" on a cruiseline is akin to the 'service charge' on that Italian restaurant bill I mentioned earlier.

It is an essential part of the crew's income, who otherwise have a wage of in some cases $1,- per hour. In my book that is coming too close to slave labour. Not paying the 'suggested tips' is only suitable if you REALLY want to punish someone for terribly bad service.

 

That is why many of us would prefer the term 'service charge' to applied to what is currently (mis-)named 'tips', or even to have them included in the price, so the crew get a living wage. We could then tip people who really go the extra mile.

[nikkin]

Whether by cash or automatic deduction, I have always paid gratuities on all the 16 cruises I have taken. In a few months, I will be on the Eclipse sailing from Southampton and I gather that most of the passengers will be Brits and other Europeans. I gather too that it is not their custom to pay gratuities (tips) and so they probably won't.

 

Since they will be getting the same service as I will, why should I pay the suggested gratuity? I am not seeking to short change the crew (I already have the funds) but I am beginning to think it does not make sense for me to pay it.

 

What are your thoughts? Spare me the abusive types, please.

 

He had a point.

[UKBayern]

He had a point.

 

Yes he did and my answer directly addresses it..... the MIS-named 'tips' are making the difference between a living wage and slave labour.

I'm sure there is hardly anyone who would exploit his fellow man that badly anymore.

Do we want to be part of that? No, so we pay. Properly, these wages should be called 'service charge' and be priced into the cruise or made mandatory.

[Johnthed0g]

I think there may be a problem with US ships sailing from UK ports ie, Eclipse from Southampton, many people will not even realise it is an American ship.....no it's true! if people don't know what to wear, if the ship has towels, what dinner sittings mean etc. they sure ain't gonna realise where the ship comes from. ME? cynical? Yup.

[excitedofharpenden]

I really do think that the amounts paid as tips by Americans are very high...on our Eclipse cruise of 4 nights our tip bill will be about $100 + all the 15%'s on top of the drinks.

It's less than $50 each. That's about £30 at current exchange rates for four nights of room care, four dinner services plus maybe six or eight other meals in the buffet. I don't think that is much at all.

 

Phil

[terrierjohn]

Just to clarify one point: I did not assume that Brits do not tip. I picked up the matter from the cruise travel publications that (a)people in Europe do not tip as North Americans do. Therefore, the cruise lines will have make up salaries. There was a suggestion that (b)perhaps the cruise lines will have to include the gratuity as part of the cruise price in that region.

As a Brit who leaves the auto tip in place I would like to suggest that maybe the cruise lines have always added the gratuity to UK base prices, as in b above. We generally pay 30-50% more for our cruises than North American prices, and Aussies and New Zealanders seem to pay even more, no idea what other Europeans pay.

As regards a I would agree we are more canny with our money, and we do not desire the same gratification that a lot of Americans seem to enjoy when they talk about tipping. Now before you flame me do please re-read my first sentence.

[Johnthed0g]

It's less than $50 each. That's about £30 at current exchange rates for four nights of room care, four dinner services plus maybe six or eight other meals in the buffet. I don't think that is much at all.

 

Phil

Yes... but you talk as if they didn't get paid for doing the job at all by the cruise line, a tip is extra as an appreciation of good service as a ''thank you'' not their wages for doing the job.

[Waterlily777]

Yes he did and my answer directly addresses it..... the MIS-named 'tips' are making the difference between a living wage and slave labour.

I'm sure there is hardly anyone who would exploit his fellow man that badly anymore.

Do we want to be part of that? No, so we pay. Properly, these wages should be called 'service charge' and be priced into the cruise or made mandatory.

 

It is my understanding, from the way the cruise line business model is structured as well as associated tax implications, that moving to a "service charge" model will result, ultimately, in the price of the basic cruise fare going up in two ways: (1) the addition of the "service charge" that will replace the gratuities and (2) the addition of a further amount to cover the extra taxes and administration costs that would be incurred when cruise lines move to the "service charge" model.

 

It has been suggested on these boards, by people who appear to have some grasp of the finances involved, that the cost that will be passed on for extra taxes and administration will be in the area of 20%.

 

I am SO tired of these tipping threads and all of the issues involved in ensuring that cruise line staff get fair wages, that I am ready to pay the extra costs that would be incurred by moving to the "service charge" model.

 

How is it that people can't understand the simple fact that, whether you pay up front in terms of a "service charge", or after the fact, in terms of "gratuities", either way it is the passenger that is going to pay the bill for the work that staff does on their behalf.

[Johnthed0g]

I just feel more comfortable with being able to tip those I wish to as an actual reward rather than feeling that I have to make up the wages.

[Waterlily777]

I just feel more comfortable with being able to tip those I wish to as an actual reward rather than feeling that I have to make up the wages.

 

 

Of course, "we" passengers have to make up the wages. Where do you think the money is supposed to come from to pay the staff? One way or another, it comes from the paying passengers...either as a service charge up front, or in the form of "gratuity" payments on board.