Who Wants an End to HAL Formal Nights Entirely?

[iancal]

Where I came from, not so many years ago, more that one occupant of a cemetary was 'enumerated' and showed up on the voting list and was registered as having voted. The going rate was $5.

[babyher]

And then they call you a snob. :) Like has already happened on this thread. :D

 

 

They can call me anything they like except late for dinner *LOL*

 

Seriously though. You had to see my dad. He could walk in a room full of strangers and by the time he left had a room full of friends.

 

Never overbearing, just friendly, loved to strike up conversation and honestly enjoyed listening and talking to people. Always good for a corny joke or just a nice remark to make someone smile and feel good. I think people sensed he really was sincere and took to him.

 

Another of his famous pearls of wisdom was "You aren't better than anyone else, but no one is better than you."

 

His way of saying don't put on airs and look down at people, and certainly don't stand for people who put on airs and try and look down on you.

[Sail intoDamship Paradise]

Definitely continue with them. Me personally I don't mind dressing up every once and a while. If you don't want to take the time to look and feel good about yourself then there is the Lido.

[Pokeynose]

Do I sense more and more snobbery as this thread continues? Why do we who choose not to go to the expense of formal clothes and really are a lot more comfortable in non-formal (no, not rags!) wear to be regarded as backwoods yahoos? As long as we don't infringe on your formality in the MDR on formal nights, why are you so bothered by us?

 

We choose HAL because we like the ships, the crews, and the itineraries. Why do some of you insist that we shouldn't contaminate the HAL ships if we don't enjoy formal evenings? We don't condemn you for your choices, why do you choose to condemn ours?

 

I agree with you. I can't see where not dressing up in a tux or gown will spoil others meals. If we choose not to go formal it is our choice no one else's and I won't be told to go on another ship line. Last time I looked we lived in a free world and were free to do as we wanted within limits. I cannot see the expense of a tux or gown, a nice suit and dressy slacks and sparkly tops do just fine. On our last cruise I counted maybe 20 in tuxes. This is my opinion. As to no formal nights, I could care less. That said, HAL will do what they want anyway.:rolleyes:

[Rudolph38]

Pokeynose is right. Despite all the huffing and puffing that has gone on on this topic, the profit motive will decide if formal night stays. HAL will make this decision based upon its profit position vis a vis the competition. Cynical? No. Realistic? Yes.

[cruznseas]

I agree with you. I can't see where not dressing up in a tux or gown will spoil others meals. If we choose not to go formal it is our choice no one else's and I won't be told to go on another ship line. Last time I looked we lived in a free world and were free to do as we wanted within limits. I cannot see the expense of a tux or gown, a nice suit and dressy slacks and sparkly tops do just fine. On our last cruise I counted maybe 20 in tuxes. This is my opinion. As to no formal nights, I could care less. That said, HAL will do what they want anyway.:rolleyes:

 

Excellent point! What caught my attention, having been a "lurker" on this thread for quite a while, is that it is the exact same argument the "other side" (pro formal wear) makes;)

[Pernilla]

We no longer bring formal wear with us. On formal nights, we either take advantage of room service or eat in the Lido. Formal nights now seem to be formal-dress nights -- as differing from the "old days" when you sat down to so much silverware, you were intimidate into ordering something from each course, just so you wouldn't lose track of what piece to use next -- and the finger bowls were brought around at the end of the meal.

 

However, because we don't enjoy formal nights certainly doesn't mean that everybody should make the same choice. I won't object to the person strolling the deck in formalwear and I expect the same reaction from that person to me, strolling the deck wearing casual slacks.

 

If I choose to attend the show in my casual slacks, I'll sit in the back of the room, where I won't offend those who feel wearing formalwear is the only way one should attend a show. Though actually, if they'd put the shows on the in-house TV, I'd be happy to watch from my cabin! :)

[BNguy]

Put me in the column that says formal nights should be done away with. I'm not saying that is should be REQUIRED that you not wear formal wear, what I am saying is that when I'm on vacation dressing up is NOT what I want to do. Sure there are other cruise lines who don't require formal nights, but I like HAL and really don't want to switch. At the moment I either do room service or the Lido on formal nights, and if I want to attend the show that night I make sure I'm presentable and just go. The world has changed, for I can remember when you dressed up to travel by train or airplane, no longer do you have to do that and no longer should you have to pack all the extra clothing just to take a cruise, which is almost all cases is a vacation and not a business trip.

 

BNguy

[sail7seas]

I agree with you. I can't see where not dressing up in a tux or gown will spoil others meals. If we choose not to go formal it is our choice no one else's and I won't be told to go on another ship line. Last time I looked we lived in a free world and were free to do as we wanted within limits. I cannot see the expense of a tux or gown, a nice suit and dressy slacks and sparkly tops do just fine. On our last cruise I counted maybe 20 in tuxes. This is my opinion. As to no formal nights, I could care less. That said, HAL will do what they want anyway.:rolleyes:

 

 

**I provided the underline.

 

Yes, you are right. A nice suit and dressy slacks and sparkly tops do just fine. I think that was made clear throughout this thread and certainly by HAL's definition of formal. HAL says a jacket and tie for gents meets their minimum request for dress on formal night. Your description of what to wear certainly fits that.

[WhansaMi]

No ... but some of the stares and people asking each other who you thought you were, "putting on airs" like that might be a little unnerving. Some people don't like "standing out."

 

Rev, you have brought this up on several occasions on threads like these, and I feel the need to provide an alternative perspective.

 

I'm a teacher, and I teach many kids with IEPs, because they have disabilities. I teach in an inclusion setting, which means there are general ed kids in there as well.

 

For whatever reason (I think because I am pretty easy-going and fair, although I make sure that my rules are few and specific, and that the consequences are clearly stated), I get a lot of the ED, or emotionally disturbed kids, in my class.

 

Last year, I had a class that was.... well, let's just say that I was at my wit's end most days with them. It was the rarest of days, the first two quarters, when at least one student from that class had to be sent out for disruptive/disrespectful behavior. (By comparison, I have not sent a student out all of this year.) However, because I want ALL students to receive a good education, I tried very hard to ignore the behaviors that weren't over the top, and to use humor to diffuse potentially inflamatory behavior. I tried to enlist the "difficult" students as helpers to me, and, yes, if the behavior was severe enough, I referred it to our ED "cooling off" teacher/ room. It took until third quarter, but.... at the end, I rarely had a problem.

 

Also in that class I had a kid in there who was not ED, but, he had difficulty accepting adult authority, especially, it seemed, from reports from other teachers, from females. He would "push the envelope" on many occasions. When "reminded" or reprimanded, his body language and his verbal language was argumentative and dismissive.

 

One day, he did something I specifically and clearly asked the students not to do, and he not only did it, but he waved his hand in dismissal toward me when I started to address him about it. I sent him from the room.

 

Later, I found out that he felt that he was being singled out because he was black.

 

It wasn't until I found this out (through the counselor, who is also black, and knows me well, and understood that I am NOT a racist) that I realized all the kids with IEPs and behavior plans, except one, was white. The one non-causcasion one was hispanic.

 

I went and told this student thank you for helping me to see things through different eyes, and helping me to understand that, while I can't announce confidential informartion about other students, I should keep in mind the perceptions that the other students have --how their teacher might not treat students exactly equally. Equal does not always mean fair. If a child is blind, and he get books on tape, it doesn't mean the rest of the class doesn't have to learn to read text.

 

The fact is, Rev, you don't KNOW why this person looked at you oddly. If you were in clerics uniform, he might just not like men of the cloth -- for whatever reason. He could have overheard you talking two nights before, and thought what you said was wrong/offensive/inappropriate. Heck, he could have been a member of this board (there are lots of lurkers) who found your posts to be, for whatever reason, offensive. You could have accidently cut in front of him in a line somewhere on the ship, and he still carries the resentment.

 

I personally, have never heard or seen anyone put down because they were dressed up on formal night, although I have seen and heard the opposite. I find it much easier to believe that any of the other things I mention above happened.

 

However, please, the next time you are formally attired, and you receive these kinds of looks, PLEASE ask the person why. You could be right. But, I think you might be surprised by the answer.

[Pokeynose]

**I provided the underline.

 

Yes, you are right. A nice suit and dressy slacks and sparkly tops do just fine. I think that was made clear throughout this thread and certainly by HAL's definition of formal. HAL says a jacket and tie for gents meets their minimum request for dress on formal night. Your description of what to wear certainly fits that.

 

Thanks sail, I wasn't trying to be contrary but we don't cruise enough for DH to buy a tux and I can never find a dress that looks good on me. I guess I just don't like other people telling me to go to another cruise ship if I didn't like formal nights.:mad: HAL is the only line I want to cruise on and will do so. Thanks again. Barb

[cruznseas]

That, WhansaMi, was one excellent post! I learned from it. Thank you very much!

[Storylady]

Thanks sail, I wasn't trying to be contrary but we don't cruise enough for DH to buy a tux and I can never find a dress that looks good on me.so.

 

 

I was just on a cruise with Mama Lou. She is 85 years old and has cruised for more than 5,000 days.

 

On formal night she wore black slacks, a black top with some kind of sparkly collar. She put a flower in her hair and she looked great. There is nothing in the formal dress code that says you have to wear a dress.

[Pokeynose]

I was just on a cruise with Mama Lou. She is 85 years old and has cruised for more than 5,000 days.

 

On formal night she wore black slacks, a black top with some kind of sparkly collar. She put a flower in her hair and she looked great. There is nothing in the formal dress code that says you have to wear a dress.

 

Thanks Storylady but I think I would like to meet Mama Lou, maybe she'll pack me in her suitcase:D;) Barb

[DizzyDallasDi]

I know that men sometimes rent their tuxes from the ship but have any of you ladies rented your formal wear from them? I just looked at the offerings they have for ladies formal attire and the outfits are very bland and kind of frumpy. Given the clothing line that HAL is offering for ladies on formal nights, if you show up in something black or gold or the least bit shimmery, you're dressed to their code. Here's their offering: http://www.cruiselineformal.com/cf_pages/ladies.php?c=hal

 

Frankly, the ladies clothes they offer don't appeal to me so I'll continue to pack my own fancy schmancy attire. Then, depending on my mood on formal night, I may or may not dress up to "formal code." If not, I'll dress in some fashionable country club chic outfit (comfy :)) and either order a fabulous room service meal from the MDR or go to the Lido.

 

After dinner, I will not change out of my "fashionable country club chic outft" as I continue my evening activities in the bars, show lounge, casino, etc. If I get side glances of looks of reproach or am actually spoken to by pax :eek: while I'm elegantly composed in manner but dressed down a notch, I'll thank them for their opinion then continiue to enjoy my evening.

 

I like formal nights and hope they don't do away with them. One would think that people tend to act better when dressed up and, hopefully, manners would follow suit. Sadly, that is not always the case because the "top of the notch" dressers generally display the nasty attitudes. And, these attitudes aren't necessarily directed toward the "under dressed" pax, it appears to be their general demeanor. Rarely do the "underdressed" pax exhbit such haughty attitute. Alas, it's the formal dressers who dole out the side-glance-with-slit-eyes behavior while emitting "hurmphs."

 

At tne end of the day, my mood will dictate my attire on formal nights. And, my fellow pax will not be blinded by the attire I choose if my mood just isn't into it that night.

[Nanner]

While DH and I are relatively casual sorts, we do enjoy the idea of formal nights. It's a chance to strut around in nicer clothing in a world where people don't do that much anymore.

 

We are preparing for a cruise soon, and DH always rents a tux. While we know it would be cheaper in the long run for him to buy one, we are both yo-yos when it comes to our weight, and it's guaranteed that the rental will fit his body shape of the moment. I was happy to see they have added more modern rental options, with the vest and neck tie in place of the cummerbund and bow tie. He'll feel more at ease and still look sharp.

 

I do think the occasional excuse to put on the nice duds also leads to a different feel for an evening, and in a fun way. It's roleplaying for grown ups. I don't think we turn into snobs, just Bond and his sophisticated female companion. Those who will go to the grave in their jeans are the ones who need to loosen up, not those of us who like to break the mold on occasion.

 

Others have mentioned that they never want to see shorts, sleeveless shirts (for men, at least) and I would add bare midriffs (for both sexes) in the dining room. It's the equivalent of going to a nicer restaurant, and not at the golf club, either. Let's keep the formal nights, and those who don't wish to participate can use one of the other dining options for those evenings. They have a choice, it is not "imposed", and I certainly see many after the meal who are in the show lounge and elsewhere without formal wear.

[I_r_a]

>women can wear almost anything to formal night now. It's the coat and tie that is the problem. <

 

A jacket and tie is "formal"?

 

Ira

[WhansaMi]

Others have mentioned that they never want to see shorts, sleeveless shirts (for men, at least) and I would add bare midriffs (for both sexes) in the dining room. It's the equivalent of going to a nicer restaurant, and not at the golf club, either. Let's keep the formal nights, and those who don't wish to participate can use one of the other dining options for those evenings. They have a choice, it is not "imposed", and I certainly see many after the meal who are in the show lounge and elsewhere without formal wear.

 

I, too, think that more people oppose the idea that it is a formal *night*, rather than just dinner. Even my DH, who loves to dress up, doesn't want to sit in the casino all night in a tuxedo.

 

Even though I don't really enjoy formal night, I dress according to the recommended guidelines for dinner. Depending on how late I'm planning to stay out and about, I may well go back and put on a pair of slacks.

 

Some pro-formal people say "you have alternative venues for dinner (lido and room service)", but some of them also say that, essentially, you should be confined to your room otherwise, as the entire ship is supposed to be formal.

 

Personally, I'd be happy with the Azamara/Oceana approach, but I'd feel better about the whole thing if people on the board would be a bit more relaxed about the wearing of formal wear after dinner.

[WhansaMi]

That, WhansaMi, was one excellent post! I learned from it. Thank you very much!

 

Awwwww.... thank you! Now I get to start the day with a smile on my face! :-)

[madelinerose]

I just looked at the offerings they have for ladies formal attire and the outfits are very bland and kind of frumpy. Given the clothing line that HAL is offering for ladies on formal nights, if you show up in something black or gold or the least bit shimmery, you're dressed to their code. Here's their offering: http://www.cruiselineformal.com/cf_pages/ladies.php?c=hal

 

Funny, I have a silk, much nicer, updated, fitted "gold blouse" that I've worn with black silk slacks and dark jeans to upscale restaurants in NYC and locally. There is nothing here that I would ever wear, "formal" (and that's a stretch) or not. ;)

 

IMO, if DH wore a tux, none of these dated "formal outfits" would suffice.

 

The "rental shoes" look like a throwback from the 80's when in corporate life we looked like clones dressed in the so-called IBM uniform, navy suits, pantyhose and heels with those big bow blouses. :D

 

Thank goodness for change! ;)

[ctsally]

I agree with you. I can't see where not dressing up in a tux or gown will spoil others meals. If we choose not to go formal it is our choice no one else's and I won't be told to go on another ship line. Last time I looked we lived in a free world and were free to do as we wanted within limits. I cannot see the expense of a tux or gown, a nice suit and dressy slacks and sparkly tops do just fine.

 

Thank you for your thoughts, Pokeynose.

 

I assume I am not to express my opinion again, since several posts have been erased.

 

HAL meets all our expectations and beyond. Our experience with HAL cruises has been superb and we will assume it will continue to be so.

[sail7seas]

Thanks, Pokeynose..... :) I bring cocktail dresses (and at least one long dress/skirt on cruises of over a week), but sometimes it comes formal night and I wear crepe dress evening pants and sparkly top. I feel just fine wearing that if I'm not in the mood for heels and cocktail dress et al

[ramidon1]

I think formal nights are part of what makes cruising special. I'd hate to see it disappear. We enjoy it.

[madelinerose]

I bring cocktail dresses, but sometimes it comes formal night and I wear evening pants.... and top. I feel just fine wearing that if I'm not in the mood for heels and cocktail dress et al

 

 

Ditto for me, Sail. ;)

[RevNeal]

The fact is, Rev, you don't KNOW why this person looked at you oddly. If you were in clerics uniform, he might just not like men of the cloth -- for whatever reason. He could have overheard you talking two nights before, and thought what you said was wrong/offensive/inappropriate. Heck, he could have been a member of this board (there are lots of lurkers) who found your posts to be, for whatever reason, offensive. You could have accidently cut in front of him in a line somewhere on the ship, and he still carries the resentment.

 

I personally, have never heard or seen anyone put down because they were dressed up on formal night, although I have seen and heard the opposite. I find it much easier to believe that any of the other things I mention above happened.

 

However, please, the next time you are formally attired, and you receive these kinds of looks, PLEASE ask the person why. You could be right. But, I think you might be surprised by the answer.

 

I appreciate your remarks and perspective. The portion you quoted actually echos the inculcation from my mother, who always assumes that when someone looks at her the first thing they're thinking is either "she's way overdressed" or "she's way underdressed" or "how could she wear those shoes with that dress!" Or other such thoughts. We just buried her mother, and my mother spent an hour prior to the Family time on Friday night debating which pair of shoes to wear. She finally decided upon a pair with heels, even though that particular pair hurt her feet terribly. When I asked her why she just didn't wear a pair of flats her answer was that she wouldn't want to be seen without the proper shoes on at her own mother's Family Night! My response was "Mom, nobody is going to notice but you. And, if they were to notice, I'd tell 'em to take a flying you-know-what. Wear what makes you comfortable." She wore the most uncomfortable, but most "appropriate-looking" pair, which goes to show that she's more concerned without what other people think -- or might think -- than with her own comfort. This reflects an attitude that was instilled in her generation by prior generations; an attitude we've (thankfully) lost. Those who don't have that attitude and concern, however, lack an ability to comprehend why someone like my mother would put herself through agony just in order to conform to propriety. In the end, it's a motivation rooted in the fear of being embarrassed in public, and often stems from a low self-esteem or poor self-image. That describes my mother to a T.

 

My personal experience has shown that there can be multiple reasons for the "looks" and side-remarks of others. On some occasions they've been the kinds of things you suggest: for example, I had one couple point at me, make remarks at each other, and such as I was entering the crows nest one evening. What flashed through my mind was my mother's predilection against being noticed; what also flashed through my mind was the thought that something was wrong with my outfit, so I glanced down and checked my fly and the buttons of my vest to make sure that everything was fit and proper. Everything was. Later the lady came over to me at the bar and asked me where I had gotten my vest ... it was precisely the kind she had wanted to get for her husband, but couldn't find anywhere.

 

On another occasion a fellow had been staring at me during dinner every Formal night all-cruise long. On the last evening of the cruise he stopped me as I passed his table and asked me if I was RevNeal. I told him I was, and he stood and shook my hand and said he was very happy to get to meet me. I thought he must be a Cruise Critic member, but it turned out that he had been been listening, for several years, to my sermon podcasts via iTunes. And, that makes sense ... most cruise critic people come right up and ask, without any hesitation. It happens every cruise, now days ... I've become accustomed to that.

 

However, there have been a few actual occasions where the stares have been directed at me precisely because the person staring thought I was over dressed. On one occasion the fellow was pissed because his wife had used me as an example for how she wished he would dress -- i.e., I was setting a "bad example" for the other men (i.e., him) by daring to wear a Tuxedo when just a jacket and tie would do! (gasp!) Yes ... I found out because he came over and told me. On another occasion -- a smart casual night -- I was standing in the elevator dressed in slacks, button-down shirt, and a jacket. Another guy got on in shorts and a t-shirt, looked me up and down, and said "aren't you over dressed?" And, on one occasion I was dressed in a suit-and-tie on one of the now-defunct "Informal Nights" and a guy (with a little too much to drink in him) came up to me and told me I was over dressed and should take off my tie, since it wasn't Formal Night.

 

So ... yes ... just because you haven't heard of it happening, that doesn't mean that it doesn't. 5 years ago I would have been (and was) exceedingly self-conscious about such things. RuthC has taught me, by precept and example, to eschew such attitude and fears and dress-up as I please. If someone else doesn't like it, that's their problem. I just wish I could teach mom to do/feel the same.