In his own words: Where Service Charge in Specialty Restaurant goes!

[FinelyCruising]

oops, Finley beat me to the point I was going to make about suite guests and the fact they are told the suggested gratuity is $5.

 

As I said it contradicts what was quoted, but what was the context and suite guests are paying a heftier fare, so it may be prorated. Suites are not the norm over all the cabins available on board so I am not sure they are a reliable measurable standard for the purpose of this discussion other than to parse out some amount that X has identified.

 

We/I may be embellishing via ignorance.

[FinelyCruising]

oooohhhh...ok...timing and catching up times three.....

[SeaCod]

Uh...it says it's his/her 49th.

 

I stand corrected:o, the OP posted first on June 25th of this year and has posted on Celebrity and Royal Caribbean threads. Not sure from the posts if he/she has ever cruised either line, but I'll assume he or she has.

[BananaAnna]

Quote:

There are accusations in the cruise community that Celebrity Cruises is downgrading the quality of cuisine in its main dining room in order to drive guests to specialty restaurants, where on ships like Celebrity Solstice, cover charges range from $5 per person to $35 per person.

 

On board Celebrity Solstice this week, I put the question to Jacques Van Staden, vice president of culinary operations.

 

“It’s a vicious rumor,” Van Staden told me during an interview in Silk Harvest, where the cover charge for dinner is $25 per person. “The specialty restaurants weren’t designed to drive up revenue. What people don’t realize is that the service charge goes 100 percent to our staff. That’s their gratuities.” End Quote

 

I guess I'm reading this differently from other folks. I interpret it as: COVER charge is, let's say, $25. The SERVICE charge goes 100% to the staff.

 

So I see it as COVER charge of $25 is made up of $10 overhead, $10 food cost, $5 SERVICE charge. 100% of the $5 goes to the staff.

(These are totally made up numbers, just trying to clarify my perception of COVER vs SERVICE.) I don't interpret it as saying 100% of the COVER charge goes to staff, only the SERVICE charge which is a small portion of the COVER charge.

[Gonzo70]

Quote:

There are accusations in the cruise community that Celebrity Cruises is downgrading the quality of cuisine in its main dining room in order to drive guests to specialty restaurants, where on ships like Celebrity Solstice, cover charges range from $5 per person to $35 per person.

 

On board Celebrity Solstice this week, I put the question to Jacques Van Staden, vice president of culinary operations.

 

“It’s a vicious rumor,” Van Staden told me during an interview in Silk Harvest, where the cover charge for dinner is $25 per person. “The specialty restaurants weren’t designed to drive up revenue. What people don’t realize is that the service charge goes 100 percent to our staff. That’s their gratuities.” End Quote

 

I guess I'm reading this differently from other folks. I interpret it as: COVER charge is, let's say, $25. The SERVICE charge goes 100% to the staff.

 

So I see it as COVER charge of $25 is made up of $10 overhead, $10 food cost, $5 SERVICE charge. 100% of the $5 goes to the staff.

(These are totally made up numbers, just trying to clarify my perception of COVER vs SERVICE.) I don't interpret it as saying 100% of the COVER charge goes to staff, only the SERVICE charge which is a small portion of the COVER charge.

 

Excellent observation - I think you might be spot on with that theory! :)

[laurieb]

I think that may be true. We've only been in specialty restaurants on Princess, but that is what the servers told us at those venues, that the charges went 100% to the servers. I think that the best usually are given those positions, why wouldn't they make more money?

[Project_gal]

I am only guessing but just maybe the staff are higher paid staff. If you are a great waiter and the line gets comments from passengers that your are a great waiter in the MDR you get a chance to move up to the big bucks in the speciality restaurants. :rolleyes:

 

It was explained to us by the maitre d' of one of the speciality restaurants that the staff are paid US$40 per month. They depend on the gratuities - both those included in the cover charge and any extra paid for good service.

 

Sue

[dalitos]

I guess I'm reading this differently from other folks. I interpret it as: COVER charge is, let's say, $25. The SERVICE charge goes 100% to the staff.

 

So I see it as COVER charge of $25 is made up of $10 overhead, $10 food cost, $5 SERVICE charge. 100% of the $5 goes to the staff.

(These are totally made up numbers, just trying to clarify my perception of COVER vs SERVICE.) I don't interpret it as saying 100% of the COVER charge goes to staff, only the SERVICE charge which is a small portion of the COVER charge.

 

That makes sense, especially since the quote of Van Staden in the original post doesn't.

But if you are right in what he meant, then he didn't really answer the question (or accusation), he just played with words.

[FinelyCruising]

I dug back into the history as there was an extensive Q&A that set up by Laura S. with Jacques van Staden.

 

Here is the link to all of the Questions & Answers, one of the questions did refer directly to the Specialty Dining and Gratuities that many have wondered about.

 

Enjoy this insight, I did when it was occurring.:) Please note that the window will open to a full page. You can go into each topic and find the questions and then the answer, which when Jaques posted the thread was locked to prevent further questions on that topic.

 

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/forumdisplay.php?f=584

[kelmac]

Perhaps the charge is going to the entire staff? (i.e. waiters, chefs, maitre'd, asst' waiters, cooks, dish washers...,) -- everyone needed to pull off the operation of each alternative restaurant. I would guess it takes 20 to 25 people to run Murano's, even more for the Tuscan Grill. $70 per couple divided by 25 = $2.80 average per couple; X 100 couples per evening = equals an average of $280 per staff member per day. Of course, these people have other duties during the day (Aqua spa cafe, Bristro on Five, the buffet...,) We know the chefs, Maitre'd, Asst Maitre 'd make pretty good money. Jacques statement may be accurate?

I would think the wine sales and drink sales is the real money maker in these restaurants?

 

Enjoy!

Kel:)

[Solstice23]

either way we enjoy the specialty restaurants on Celebrity! and we do not ming paying some money for them just to enjoy a different space and menu. When you have passengers the past few years paying 400.00 or less for a 7 night cruise you cant expect the food in the MDR to be like it was 10 years ago!!!

[iancal]

Yes, and I believe in the tooth fairy.

[Snorkel2Much]

http://www.avidcruiser.com/2010/08/is-celebrity-downgrading-its-main-dining-room-experience-to-boost-the-bottom-line-in-its-specialty-restaurants/

There are accusations in the cruise community that Celebrity Cruises is downgrading the quality of cuisine in its main dining room in order to drive guests to specialty restaurants, where on ships like Celebrity Solstice, cover charges range from $5 per person to $35 per person.

On board Celebrity Solstice this week, I put the question to Jacques Van Staden, vice president of culinary operations.

 

“It’s a vicious rumor,” Van Staden told me during an interview in Silk Harvest, where the cover charge for dinner is $25 per person. “The specialty restaurants weren’t designed to drive up revenue. What people don’t realize is that the service charge goes 100 percent to our staff. That’s their gratuities.”

So in spite of the mis-information that has been posted here and claimed by the staff onboard to drive up their tips, there is no reason to tip extra in the Celebrity Specialty restaurant. You may of course if you want, but the staff is in fact getting all of the service charge. No one should ever feel guilty by not leaving extra.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=19842080&postcount=4

Jacques Van Staden

Vice President Food & Beverage - Celebrity & Azamara Cruise Lines

Join Date: May 2009

Posts: 21

 

 

specialty restaurant surcharge and guest survey

The majority of the surcharge does go to the staff. It varies slightly by specialty restaurant, but again, the largest percentage goes toward gratuities for our staff, and the rest toward purchasing higher quality ingredients.

 

To your question regarding “excellent” ratings on our guest surveys: Under no circumstances does it reflect badly on the server if our food is not up to our guests’ high standards. I will tell you that we certainly strive for excellence, but realize we’re not perfect. There is always room for improvement, and if we haven’t executed flawlessly, we welcome your honest opinion, and are committed to responding accordingly.

 

Culinary regards,

JVS

__________________

Jacques Van Staden

Vice President, Food & Beverage

Celebrity & Azamara Cruise Lines

.

:D

[Jerry and Shelly]

If the standard service charge, or tip, is 15% (such as on drink orders), then a $70 charge for Muranos, if strictly a tip, would amout to a 15% tip on a dinner costing $467.

 

Of course, this would be dinner for 2 NOT including wine or drinks. A very expensive dinner for 2.

[Bobbie John]

Oh come on. :rolleyes:

 

Only a small amount of the cover charge goes to the staff. Most of it goes to the cruise lines to cover the increased cost of the food, the operating expense of the specialty restaurants and for profit. Why do you think new ships (across all mass market lines) are featuring so many specialty restaurants? It is a money maker for the ship. The food in the specialty restaurants is higher end cuts of meat and therefore more expensive. The cruise lines are not giving all (or even most) of the cover charges to the staff and taking a huge loss on the specialty restaurants.

 

Mr. Van Staden was providing a politically correct response so as to make it look like the cruise line is giving away all the money to the staff and/or deflecting criticism that the food in the main dining room has gone downhill to drive people to pay for meals in the specialty venues.

 

We agree with you and all of the other people who do not believe that 100% of the specialty restaurant surcharge goes to the staff. If Von Staden is correct, then the 2 specialty restaurant meals without any extras such as wine, etc would be worth $350 alone.

Because based on a 20% tip times the cost of the $350 meal =$70.

 

Gonzo, you are correct in that Von Staden is deflecting criticism that the food in the main dining room has gone downhill to drive people to to pay for meals in the specialty venues because they are a money maker for all cruiselines.

 

If you believe Von Staden then you would believe the BP Executives in the Gulf.

[kelmac]

Sounds like conspiracy theory stuff! When Von Staden is talking about staff, he doesn't just mean the waiters and asst' waiters. If the up-charge for the alternative restaurants is used to run the entire operation, it sounds pretty feasible. The surcharge pays for the entire staff of the alternative restaurants.

 

I've been cruising Celebrity since 1993, and the quality of the MDR is just as good now as it was ten years ago. What has changed is your frame of reference towards food and quality. What WOWed you 15 years ago, has changed as you have become more experienced and affluent!:)

 

We are all growing up!

Enjoy!

Kel:)

[sasset]

So who are we to believe? The guy (Von Staden) who has direct kowledge of the operation, or a bunch on here that think they know without any factual basis for knowing?

[JeffCoud]

So who are we to believe? The guy (Von Staden) who has direct kowledge of the operation, or a bunch on here that think they know without any factual basis for knowing?

It's just economics and basic human behavior. The cruise lines are not creating these speciality restaurant areas in order to NOT make money off of them. The very notion that they would is of course ludicrous. This is not how cruise lines behave. I doubt alcohol sales alone would justify their existence as the alcohol upsell is not that great....I'm still getting a drink or bottle of wine etc in the MDR, as I would in the speciality restaurant. I am 100% certain they are making $ off the increased charge itself.

 

Jeff

[Snorkel2Much]

So who are we to believe? The guy (Von Staden) who has direct kowledge of the operation, or a bunch on here that think they know without any factual basis for knowing?

Read post #38. Mr Von Staden has offered two different stories. Which Von Staden are we to believe?

[shipshape sam]

It would suggest that if all gratitudies go to wait staff and if the cost of the food/wait staff is higher than the MDR, then the speciality dining areas cost Celebrity more $$$ or breakeven at BEST! So, why would they promote even more of them on the newer ships?

 

I think it would be a "leap" to suggest they made a marketing decision to:

 

set up a special group/area/menu to be funded soley by gratitudies from passengers, when they measure revenue (one metric) by square foot.

 

 

to establish a feature that benefits a small number of passengers with no benefit to Celebrity. Guess they do keep beverage revenues/profit. Celebrity is constantly looking and reviewing their product offering to see where they are making money and those areas that do not, get modified/deleted and replaced with something that does make money. To be fair, Celebrity also makes changes based on passenger input, but still tied to usage and $$$. Which any business has to do overall, even if one specific feature is not profitable, it could be a side benefit to Celebrity to offer speciality restaurants. Just not sure if one is good for business, that more would be better. Sounds like a 'slippery slope'.

 

Some examples of changes I have read about or seen is the area where the florist is/was on the S class ships. They used to have classes in that area and to my understanding are being eliminated and a speciality restaurant is being installed.

 

On RCL, the Sovereign class, we enjoyed a "dueling pianos" act and a few years ago it was eliminated. On each cruise we were on the Sovereign the shows (muliple times per cruise) were packed and very popular but it was still eliminated, so I am not sure what the criteria used is. Lots of drinks were sold during the time the pianos were playing.

[Gonzo70]

So who are we to believe? The guy (Von Staden) who has direct kowledge of the operation, or a bunch on here that think they know without any factual basis for knowing?

 

So why are suite guests told the suggested gratuity for the specialty restaurants is $5?

 

So why did Von Staden give one answer here on Cruise Critic, and a contradictory answer in the article the OP referecned?

 

So why would Celebrity be creating so many specialty restaurants on the new ships if they were causing them to lose significant money?

 

If you think about the situation the ONLY conclusion is that Mr. Von staden's comments were misleading.

[JeffCoud]

So why are suite guests told the suggested gratuity for the specialty restaurants is $5?

 

So why did Von Staden give one answer here on Cruise Critic, and a contradictory answer in the article the OP referecned?

 

So why would Celebrity be creating so many specialty restaurants on the new ships if they were causing them to lose significant money?

 

If you think about the situation the ONLY conclusion is that Mr. Von staden's comments were misleading.

 

I would agree. In fact his comments are misleading at best.

[Bobbie John]

Sounds like conspiracy theory stuff! When Von Staden is talking about staff, he doesn't just mean the waiters and asst' waiters. If the up-charge for the alternative restaurants is used to run the entire operation, it sounds pretty feasible. The surcharge pays for the entire staff of the alternative restaurants.

 

I've been cruising Celebrity since 1993, and the quality of the MDR is just as good now as it was ten years ago. What has changed is your frame of reference towards food and quality. What WOWed you 15 years ago, has changed as you have become more experienced and affluent!:)

 

We are all growing up!

Enjoy!

Kel:)

 

How can you say that the quality of food in the MDR is the same now as it was 10 years ago when the menus 10 years ago used to include filet mignon, veal chops, rack of lamb, lamb chops, chateaubriand, whole lobster tails, veal marsala, rack of veal, and broiled or baked fish? Those are all gone and now the menus have veal shanks, lamb shanks, beef cheeks, pork belly(fatback), meatballs and tons of pasta and polenta, chicken marsala, breaded and fried veal cordon bleu, pan fried fish. and fattier tougher cuts of meat. It is not a matter of being wowed easier when we were younger. The fact is the current MDR menus contain lesser quality and preparation of meats and other foods.

[Bobbie John]

So why are suite guests told the suggested gratuity for the specialty restaurants is $5?

 

So why did Von Staden give one answer here on Cruise Critic, and a contradictory answer in the article the OP referecned?

 

So why would Celebrity be creating so many specialty restaurants on the new ships if they were causing them to lose significant money?

 

If you think about the situation the ONLY conclusion is that Mr. Von staden's comments were misleading.

 

Gonzo, You are absolutely correct!

[kelmac]

How can you say that the quality of food in the MDR is the same now as it was 10 years ago when the menus 10 years ago used to include filet mignon, veal chops, rack of lamb, lamb chops, chateaubriand, whole lobster tails, veal marsala, rack of veal, and broiled or baked fish? Those are all gone and now the menus have veal shanks, lamb shanks, beef cheeks, pork belly(fatback), meatballs and tons of pasta and polenta, chicken marsala, breaded and fried veal cordon bleu, pan fried fish. and fattier tougher cuts of meat. It is not a matter of being wowed easier when we were younger. The fact is the current MDR menus contain lesser quality and preparation of meats and other foods.

 

Are these menus showing a pattern? Evolution or dilution?

 

 

http://www.timdotson.com/century/menu9.htm 1998 Menus

 

 

http://www.celebrity-century.com/images/menu12.jpg 2004 Menus

 

http://www.thepreismans.com/celebrity_solstice_menus.htm 2010 Menus

 

 

Maybe we could find some more menus?

 

Kel:)