HOLY COW! and one parent with the kids. . .

[jenmouse]

First of all, I was looking for a cabin for my brother-in-law and his three kids to sail with us on the August 21, 2011 sailing of Allure. The only cabins left on the ENTIRE SHIP that sleep four were some OV staterooms on deck three, and one Boardwalk view balcony stateroom on deck nine, according to the rep on the phone. I didn't check suites, though.:D When I booked a few weeks ago, there was a lot available for a group of four!!

 

Now, for my question! My brother-in-law is in the process of getting a divorce. Without going into the detail, it is his soon to be ex-wife's fault, completely - let's just call her Tiger.:rolleyes: She is very angry that he DARES to divorce her, and won't make his life easy about taking the boys on vacation. Without going into the need/no need for a passport debate, and the necessary steps to get one (I am aware of all that) my question is will RCCL allow the kids to sail on the ship with one parent, without a notarized letter from the other parent? I checked the RCCL website and the only thing I see pertains to children traveling with someone who is not their parent or legal guardian.

 

Thanks for any help - the soon to be ex has isolated my brother-in-law from his family for several years now, and he really needs this vacation.

[BND]

While he needs the letter and should have it, some people have posted they have never been asked for it. If she is that angry, he better be prepared to go to court to force her to sign the letter because she could easily claim kidnapping, etc if she wants to really cause problems. They really need to have a custody agreement in place that lays out the vacations, visitations etc before he ever considers taking them anywhere. BTW, the "tiger" comment is a pretty thinly veiled word. I know exactly what you are referring to, so you might as well have used the current term.

[mgmigs]

he will need a letter giving her permssion.

 

addditioanlly, if he does not want to awaken the sleppping tiger for real, he won't do something that he knows would antagonize her.

 

when trying to divorce, you want to be able to negotiate on your own terms as much as possible, otheriwise all you end up doing is having 2 people with hatred for eachother, who pay each of their attorney too much money for a decsion neither may be all that happy with.

[jenmouse]

BTW, the "tiger" comment is a pretty thinly veiled word. I know exactly what you are referring to, so you might as well have used the current term.

 

Well, really, it's that I don't need to spell out the whole story as to the exact details. I should have just said she cheated multiple times, but figured that got the idea across!

[jenmouse]

addditioanlly, if he does not want to awaken the sleppping tiger for real, he won't do something that he knows would antagonize her.

 

when trying to divorce, you want to be able to negotiate on your own terms as much as possible, otheriwise all you end up doing is having 2 people with hatred for eachother, who pay each of their attorney too much money for a decsion neither may be all that happy with.

 

I totally agree with this, but she is really unhinged. My BiL is going for custody, and his wife's MOTHER is supporting him, if that gives you the idea. He is trying to avoid dragging her into court and forcing her to sign, knowing that she would make the KIDS pay the price for that. While I know these rules are in place for a reason, it isn't fair for the kids to be punished so that she can punish him (for something she did, after all)!!

[01Sweetpea]

He should try and get the letter just in case. I wouldn't chance it. He's got a year before he cruises, once he heads to mediation or divorce court I'd bring it up then and ask the judge force her to sign it on the spot.

 

My DH was divorced and I was widowed and not once have we been asked to supply the paper for any of our kids from the prior marriages.

[skiiergirl]

Well, really, it's that I don't need to spell out the whole story as to the exact details. I should have just said she cheated multiple times, but figured that got the idea across!

 

I understood exactly what you meant immediately. Maybe because I am a golfer. But with the never ending news stories I would think even someone hidden in a cave the last 9 months have heard the stories. LOL!

 

Another thing to think about if they have to fly to the ship is security at the airport. I don't know how old the kids are you are referring to and I don't know airline/airport policies. However, when I flew a few weeks ago there was a man and his son (I would guess about 11 years old) in the security line next to me. The TSA agent looked a the Dad's DL and both tickets. Then he addressed the boy and said "David (or whatever the kid's name was)....who is this man?" The kid said "My Dad". TSA said...."Are you sure?" Kid said "Yes". TSA said "You are really sure?" Kid said "Yes". TSA said "I don't need to call the police?" Kid said "No sir, he is my Dad". TSA said "Have a good trip".

 

 

Sorry to hear about the situation with the BIL and the kids. Good luck to them!!!

[dforeigner]

Here is a nasty scenario. Your brother in law (BIL) leaves on a cruise with his children. Their mother did not sign a written consent letter giving them permission to leave the country.

 

She wants to get him in trouble; therefore, files a report claiming he has kidnapped the children, etc. The police file a look out for your BIL.

 

Upon re-entering the US, your BIL is arrested.

[wg6530]

If he can't get the letter, maybe he should consider other vacation options. Much as I love cruising, there are so many other good, domestic options for an August vacation.

[merees17]

Morning all. Assuming he has a lawyer, have the lawyer draw-up a temp custody order and get a judge to sign. She doesn't have to sign anything. Not sure what they call them now, but in the day they were called separation agreements.

[mgmigs]

I totally agree with this, but she is really unhinged. My BiL is going for custody, and his wife's MOTHER is supporting him, if that gives you the idea. He is trying to avoid dragging her into court and forcing her to sign, knowing that she would make the KIDS pay the price for that. While I know these rules are in place for a reason, it isn't fair for the kids to be punished so that she can punish him (for something she did, after all)!!

 

i work in family court and i see stuff like this all of the time. i can assure you that if he takes the kids out of the counrty without her permission, it will be used agaisnt him in court. without knowing specifics, just because tiger cheated does not give your brother in law the upperhand in gaining full custody. he really should make as few waves as possible.

 

also, they do not need to go to court to get the travel letter.

[sandinmypants]

He should try and get the letter just in case. I wouldn't chance it. He's got a year before he cruises, once he heads to mediation or divorce court I'd bring it up then and ask the judge force her to sign it on the spot.

 

I agree, he has a year during which they'll both be siging stuff right & left - he should just have his lawyer get the letter ready, and when she's signing the other stuff just have her sign that one, too. Why take any chances? Right now emotions are running high, but over the course of the next year things are going to change a lot.

 

And - if she's that "unhinged", she needs treatment, so she can have a good relationship with her kids. Both mom & kids need that.

[jenmouse]

I should have specified that it was NEVER his intention to take the kids without the letter if he needs it. The question is just if he needs it; if so, we have to figure out the best way to get it. My suggestion before posting on here was, if he does need it, have him talk to his lawyer about it and have it specified in papers that he has the kids the dates of the cruise, and to have her sign any necessary papers. I went through a messy divorce myself, so I am aware how bad things can get!!

[thelion]

For RCI, he does not need the letter as long as he can prove he is their legal guardian or parent. Think about it. What about a single parent when there is no mother around? How would they get a letter? If he sails with BC/ID (where appropriate) and his name is on that BC, he will be fine for RCI's standards.

 

That said...it gets ookie taking kids out of the country without the other parent's permission.

[Wayniac]

Your BIL needs to ask "The Tiger" one question.

 

As her actions are directly responsible for the pending divorce, the chaos and the pain, why would she want to deny the children this small sliver of enjoyment in their lives?

[jewelmick]

If you have passports, the same last name......I don't see an issue. Usually, like the other poster said, they will ask the kid who you are. They say dad/mom no problem. We took our neice, they asked her, she said aunt, they asked if her mom and dad knew where she was.....she said yes. No problem...........never had anyone ask for the letters.

 

Of course, the one time you don't have it...

 

But, since most people now have passports, there is MUCH less of an issue.

[carribeanpirate18]

My wife is divorced and we have cruised twice with RC since we have been married. The first time, no letter was needed. The last cruise (8/1/10) we were asked for it. Better to have it and not need it......

 

I can sympathize.....we struggle to get this signed each time and its torture until the day its signed. Even after its signed, we deal with threats his father of not allowing him to travel and whatnot. Divorce agreements are worthless, because the only way to enforce them is through the courts. Police wont touch it. Thats a story for another board.

[jenmouse]

Your BIL needs to ask "The Tiger" one question.

 

As her actions are directly responsible for the pending divorce, the chaos and the pain, why would she want to deny the children this small sliver of enjoyment in their lives?

 

I agree. . .she is just "not right", as I said. In fact, her doctor supposedly discourages her having custody (they will probably have to subpoena her). I feel so sorry for my BiL. I know how much he and the kids would enjoy this trip, and they don't want to break any rules to go. I really hope he manages to work it all out.

[Rancher Dave]

Here is a nasty scenario. Your brother in law (BIL) leaves on a cruise with his children. Their mother did not sign a written consent letter giving them permission to leave the country.

 

She wants to get him in trouble; therefore, files a report claiming he has kidnapped the children, etc. The police file a look out for your BIL.

 

Upon re-entering the US, your BIL is arrested.

 

As an example of what was shared here...

 

My name is common enough that last year coming back thru the Vancouver Airport...thru US CBP, I was asked to pull out my DL in addition to my passport and DD was drilled about DW and I being her parents. I suppose someone with my same name may have taken his kid(s) without wife/ex-wife's permission and CBP was seriously on the lookout for him.

 

I'd definitely have the paperwork in place before going on the cruise. Better than getting arrested and facing felony charges especially since a felonony on the record could cause problems for years to come.

 

As for the ex-wifey's catting around, maybe they are in a state where that can be used against her towards getting the divorce figured in his favor especially with regards to custody.

[jeast]

This thread makes me sad for kids.

 

I always tell my kids that the most important decision they will EVER make in their lives is not their career, where they live, or who they marry. It is who they have children with.

 

You can always divorce a spouse. You can't change who the other parent of your child is. they will always have power over you and can affect the ones you love the most.

[minnie00]

I have to admit I didn't get the "tiger" comment at first. :oI was thinking she was b word.:p

 

anyway..in AZ its a no fault divorce state so doesn't matter if the spouse cheated 1000 times....and it doesn't affect custody either.

I KNOW both spouses have to agree to the temp custody agreement in our state.

It can be put in your agreement that you have to notify each spouse within 30 days if you plan on taking them out of state...that is what my Sister has. She does NOT have to ask permission.

 

hope this helps.

[BND]

Father's getting full custody is still pretty rare and it usually takes pretty major reasons for the courts to take custody away from mothers. So, he's got a tough road ahead, not to mention expensive if she wants to fight him. As I said in my original post on the first page of this thread, the issue could become a "kidnapping" scenario if this isn't settled or handled right. For the individual who basically said slip the letter in the paperwork she's signing, are you kidding? Her attorney will have everything to read and go over before she sits down to sign anything and will advise her of what she is signing beforehand, not to mention, visitation has to be shifted around to cover vacation time. DH and I have been married almost 30 years and I just will never get the power plays and vengeance I've seen surrounding divorce and children. How selfish.

 

Also, in most states custody isn't impacted by the parents' infidelity either. Most cases I've heard of with father's gaining custody were either voluntary by the mother or involved drugs, abuse or felonies that put mom in prison, even then, mother's can and have maintained full custody upon release.

[MrsPete]

This thread makes me sad for kids.

 

I always tell my kids that the most important decision they will EVER make in their lives is not their career, where they live, or who they marry. It is who they have children with.

 

You can always divorce a spouse. You can't change who the other parent of your child is. they will always have power over you and can affect the ones you love the most.

That's sad but true. I have a friend who has gone through a horrible divorce, and his judge flat-out told him and his ex-wife in court that the two of them needed to get over their "divorce hangover" and start acting like adults -- that it was for the good of their child. Anyway, I think that's a good term: Divorce hangover.

 

Back to the question: Yes, I think the letter is essential, especially since the divorce isn't final and it could easily be held against him later in a big way.

 

Having said that, I'll add that I took my nieces on a cruise recently, and their parents went to the trouble to get a notorized letter for me . . . the cruise line never asked for it, and the letter traveled right back home with me again. However, I wouldn't have gone without it. WHAT IF they'd demanded it and I hadn't had it? We would've had to forego boarding and would've been disappointed both for the loss of the vacation and the loss of the money.

 

In his case, it could be even worse when he goes to court.

 

I'd suggest mentioning it to her now: "I'm thinking of taking the kids on a cruise next June. I'll need a letter from you at some point."

 

Then a month later, have the letter typed up so that all she has to do is sign it. Give it to her during a meeting with the lawyers (first because this is a very reasonable request, second because they'll have a notory right there) and ask her to sign it right then.

[MrsPete]

It can be put in your agreement that you have to notify each spouse within 30 days if you plan on taking them out of state...that is what my Sister has. She does NOT have to ask permission.

Wow, that'd be tough on me. I live near the state line, and we certainly don't plan 30 days in advance. I suppose people who are in custody situations and who live in places like I do must write that into the contract: If you're leaving these two states, then you have to have notice.

[MrFunInTheSun]

He'd be best to leave the kids with her and go on his vacation without the kids. As much as he'd love to him them with him, it's no worth what could come of it all, unless he gets that paper from her allowing the kids out of state and country. He thinks things are a mess now, wait till he comes back from the cruise, how nasty it'll be then if she should claim kidnapping, etc.