Dress to Impress - time to revive?

[daiB]

:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

 

Exactly.

 

*********** fiddley.

 

Should be not my phone.

 

 

Gan Canny

 

Dai

[daiB]

And your source for this is??

 

Carnival UK spent all their budget on P&O Ventura and Azura - were not filling berths so took out the older OV inefficient ships cost too much to keep going when fuel prices went up and an offer from P&O Aus division came in.. The idea being then that OV pax were moved onto Ventura and Oceana.

 

Read this.. From the MD:

 

great holiday choice.

Why is Ocean Village phased out if it's been so successful?

Booking levels are good and Ocean Village is an award-winning cruise line which has consistently delivered high quality and great value, but the increase in fuel and flying costs over the last two years have meant that the economics are less favourable.

 

What are the options if I'm looking for an informal holiday option?

While still upholding some of the established cruise conventions, both P&O Cruises and Princess Cruises offer increasingly informal experiences on a number of their ships.

 

source: http://www.oceanvillageholidays.co.uk/ocean-village-corporate-announcement.aspx

 

Craig

 

My source's are:-

 

1. OV has closed down, Carnival making an economic decision.

 

2. Your information from Carnival i.e. " but the increase in fuel and flying costs over the last two years have meant that the economics are less favourable. "

 

 

My wife has just been reading the thread and she sahy you can have Oceana:rolleyes:. I do not think it is her favourate ship.

 

 

:):)Happy Cruising:):)

 

 

 

:cool:

 

Dai

[daiB]

It appears to me after reading all the replies to my initial post, that no one has answered the question I posed.

Is it now an opportune time for P&O to revive its Dress to Impress concept, in lieu of Formal and Semi-formal, in order to be at the forefront of the dress code revolution which has taken place across the cruise industry over the past few years rather than being a seemingly reluctant follower?

As I said, times have moved on and what was revolutionary then no longer is. Most of P&Os sector no longer have semi-formal, and restrict formal to the MDR. Some - NCL and Regent come to mind - no longer have compulsory formal but have special occasions when passengers are invited to dress more formally if they wish - I believe NCL use the term Dress Up or Not, Regent Optional Formal. These are not so different from P&Os Dress to Impress.

Time to give it another try, and hopefully square the circle between the traditional and casual camps with something which neither may regard as ideal, but both could hopefully live with?

 

 

Personally I do not think it would work, I think it would cause a rumpus. On the other hand my wife says they can have Oceana. She is not keen on the dance floor in the disco.

 

 

Errr so that means I am in favour.:o

 

 

 

:):)Happy Cruising:):)

 

 

 

:cool:

 

Dai

[ROSEBASKETS]

Exactly.

 

*********** fiddley.

 

Should be not my phone.

 

 

Gan Canny

 

Dai

 

Are you having a stroke? (Remember F A S T)

[tartanexile81]

I don't want to add to the controversy but there seem to have been so many threads along theses lines recently and it is a bit like the debate about smoking. People will never agree and it polarises opinion. Non-smokers on the whole would rather smoking was banned completely from all ships, whilst smokers think they're being squeezed out. Some ships allow smoking and others don't so if I wanted to smoke I'd choose a line which allowed smoking.

 

P&O has a defined dress code, which I think is made very clear. We cruise with various lines and other lines have a more relaxed dress code but if I wanted to dress casually at night I'd definitely avoid P&O and stick to NCL or Canival etc. There's a useful page on this site which summarises the way people are expected to dress both day and night, on all the main lines. http://www.cruisecritic.co.uk/articles.cfm?ID=76&sr=us

 

I may be naive but if people don't like the dress code on Oceana or any other P&O ship why do they cruise with them? I'd just take my £3000 elsewhere. There's plenty of choice these days.

[ROSEBASKETS]

I may be naive but if people don't like the dress code on Oceana or any other P&O ship why do they cruise with them? I'd just take my £3000 elsewhere. There's plenty of choice these days.

 

I have to beg to differ, there is less of a choice these days thanks to P&O "flooding" the market. Too many ships, too few "traditional" customers to fill berths each week.NCL, Costa, Carnival Princess and RCI offer European / American style cruising.

 

P&O now market their ships at everyone from B, C1, C2, D & E's in our society. P&O didn't do TV ads 10 years ago, they didn't need to. Brochures had to be ordered or asked for, now they sit with the summer sun and Butlins brochures in the local TA's It's cheaper to take a family on a P&O cruise than for 2 weeks in Majorca.

 

I want to cruise British style, with £'s not $'s and with Bitter not lite beer, with chips not fries and with bacon not what passes for bacon everywhere else in the world. I want a decent cup of tea and not warm water and a teabag.

 

The dress code is VERY important to P&O's traditional cruise passenger, which I acknowledge, respect and accept, it forms a significant part of the cruise experience, along with sea days, fixed dining, cocktail parties, lack of kids and sequence dancing, which should be encouraged and allowed to continue.

 

I think that more modern, younger cruise passengers would like to cruise on a more informal basis with freedom dining, a more casual dress code, with no formality, one sea day a week and more recent forms of entertainment e.g Disco's which carry on after midnight with more than Wham and Rick Astley playing (not that I've anything against Wham you understand)

 

Those who dress for formal nights seem to be under the impression that those who do not wish to dress for dinner are somehow worse dressers because of it, I find this perplexing as a pair of smart denims or the latest MiH or Westwood jeans costs far more than the traditional dinner gown or suit. I have cruised 24 times in 10 years on 6 different cruise lines and EVERY line dresses the same on smart casual nights, though I must say that P&O passengers have the more diverse outfits on these nights as they range from new casuals to those that have seen a few cruises to say the least.

 

I wholeheartedly support those who wish to dress formally on formal nights, though the smart casual nights seem to be less glamourous the garments worn seem to have been recycled more than on any other ships i've sailed on, which includes OV and Thomsons.

 

Surely P&O should keep and retain it's core customers by giving them what they want, traditional ships for traditional cruisers, but also provide alternate ships for those who don't want to take a tie on holiday with them, who will gladly mix with the kids and put up with the "less desireable" passengers for a chance to dress how they want when they want.

 

It's a win, win situation for both sides. Traditionalists on one ship, with the glitz, glamour and no "riff raff" and modernists on the other prepared to put up with kids and scruffs to have a British cruise holiday.

 

MR ROSEBASKETS :)

 

24 cruises, long list, life's too short

[daiB]

A well written and thought out post. Some sweeping statements however. Do not see how it is the fault of p&o that the other lines have come to southampton. Perhaps they see a market here.

 

What you need is something like OV. But hat does not work.

 

Gan canny

 

Dai

 

Back on the phone(mobile).

[ROSEBASKETS]

I'm not critising the other companies who sail from S'ampton, It's great the better the variety. It does seem a shame that those who want to cruise with a traditional emphasis have to mix with those who don't. Plenty of ships in the fleet. Ventura and Azura are (as I understand it) exactly the same ships yet attract both kinds of passenger, which seems to antagonise both, with new customers unable to distingush the type of cruise they want.

 

It seems common sense to me that if you have 2 of the same product and (very) broadly, two types of customer that you would place like with like instead of having the two mix. Both would get what they wanted and more customers would know what to expect and those who complain about the casual dress of customers on formal nights would have cause to complain and there wouldn't be any "out of bounds" places for anyone.

 

Too much common sense?

[davecttr]

If Ventura was 'modern' dress and Azura 'traditional' you might satisfy both sets of passengers regards clothing but would you satisfy them regarding itinery? For those who prefer british style ships there are only three cruise lines, P&O, Fred Olsen and Thomson. With all these ships there is only one ancient vessel which is informal. It looks like a lack of choice to me.

 

As for the demise of OV being because it was unsuccessful? I doubt it, more likely they were phased out because P&O had 6000 new berths to fill and not enough traditional cruisers to fill them.

 

What is wrong with P&O actually admitting in writing the de-facto dress code which appears to apply to Ventura and Oceana? On formal nights the code applies to the dining room and 2 bars, everywhere else smart casual. as it is all we have is confusion and they must be losing business because of it.

[MattyBarlow]

As for the demise of OV being because it was unsuccessful? I doubt it, more likely they were phased out because P&O had 6000 new berths to fill and not enough traditional cruisers to fill them.

 

 

 

That is exactly what happened!

When OV was canned, where did Carnival want the OV'ers to go? P&O. Now if they wanted to retain those pax then some serious comprimises would have to take place.

P&O's biggest problem is the old Witch at the helm!

[daiB]

There is no confusion at all.

 

Only for those who wish for there to be confusion. ie those with another agenda.

 

Gan canny

 

 

 

 

Dai

[geecee1]

There is no confusion at all.

 

Only for those who wish for there to be confusion. ie those with another agenda.

 

Gan canny

 

 

 

 

Dai

 

Dai,

Agree with you regarding Rosebaskets post.

We are ex OVers with no agenda other than we see our trips as holidays afloat rather than the traditional cruise.

We were on Ventura in Dec. and had a great holiday . Although I dressed smart casual on Formal Nights, I did not feel out of place and there was no real evidence of "them and us" on areas of the ship where we mingled.

I have been critical of P&O in the past, but I feel with Ventura, they have got the balance about right, even the 4 sea days were not as bad as I expected.

We have discussed going "formal", but as I have commented elsewhere, our biggest disappointment was the boring menus in the MDRs and lack of veg/salad, hence we ate in the buffets/Beachhouse/ East(great food) out of choice most nights.

[daiB]

Dai,

Agree with you regarding Rosebaskets post.

We are ex OVers with no agenda other than we see our trips as holidays afloat rather than the traditional cruise.

We were on Ventura in Dec. and had a great holiday . Although I dressed smart casual on Formal Nights, I did not feel out of place and there was no real evidence of "them and us" on areas of the ship where we mingled.

I have been critical of P&O in the past, but I feel with Ventura, they have got the balance about right, even the 4 sea days were not as bad as I expected.

We have discussed going "formal", but as I have commented elsewhere, our biggest disappointment was the boring menus in the MDRs and lack of veg/salad, hence we ate in the buffets/Beachhouse/ East(great food) out of choice most nights.

 

Have you tried asking for extra veg. I find the wait staff will get you what you want.

 

We go for table of 8 second sitting in the mdr. Because we like to socialize. We have had some fantastic tables.

 

Gan canny

 

Dai

[geecee1]

Have you tried asking for extra veg. I find the wait staff will get you what you want.

 

We go for table of 8 second sitting in the mdr. Because we like to socialize. We have had some fantastic tables.

 

Gan canny

 

Dai

 

Dai,

We were with friends on 2nd sitting. Far be it for me to criticise food on a ship.

On the whole the quality and choice are amazing when you consider that they are feeding 3000 people.

I am very gregarious and love to meet people and we have kept in touch over the years with fellow passengers from OV ships.

However, after a day ashore, invariably on a beach, we like to relax with a few drinks in Breakers Bar, maybe have a Pizza from Frankie's, and a have light meal in the buffet later and then take in a show

I love my dinners as much as the next man but not after 9.00/9.30 in the Caribbean.

But that is the joy of Ventura in that she caters for everyone, whatever their tastes in food or dress.

[Somerset Cruiser]

It appears to me after reading all the replies to my initial post, that no one has answered the question I posed.

 

A common occurance, see my 2 day embarkation thread :)

[Merlin7]

Denarius.

 

I don't think that, "Dress to Impress," is specific enough. It would lead to all sorts of personal interpretations.

 

The sugestions in the brochure are very clear.

 

Personally, I would have thought that "Dress to Impress," would be a mix of semi formal/formal, depending oin your mood, or whether you had had a busy day ashore or had stayed on board relaxing.

 

It might also give rise to even more 'discussion' on cruise boards as to what was worn being inappropriate...........in the eyes of some.........not impessive enough!!!

[C at Sea]

When we first started cruising with P&O over 15yrs ago, everyone stuck to the dress code. It was clear and it was lovely and it was part of what seduced us to keep on cruising!

P&O should run a ship (or 2) which caters for those who want casual dress. From reading posts on here, OV type ships for "people who dont do cruising" are needed. But for those of us who do - we can enjoy the traditional cruise holiday that we love. After all - you dont book a beach holiday if you are allergic to sand!

[Invincible]

I'm fairly new to cruising and I have to say I enjoy dressing for dinner and have no issues with it at all, having said that I would not object to the dress standards being relaxed a little but I believe it is important to have a minimum standard, the ambiance of the MDR on the ships I've been on is that of a smart even pricey restaurant on land and I wouldn't dream of going into one of those in shorts and a tee shirt.

 

My last cruise was on Celebrity's Constellation some of the Americans particularly were obviously averse to dressing for dinner on formal nights but most made an effort to look smart and most wore jacket and tie, I think that would be reasonable compromise.

 

On previous hotel based holidays I've been on I've often seen guests going for dinner in the same shorts and shirts as they've been in aroundf the pool all day, I personally wouldn't like to see that happen aboard any cruise ship I was on and feel that if standards were allowed to drop too far it would put off more passengers than it would atract.

[davecttr]

When we first started cruising with P&O over 15yrs ago, everyone stuck to the dress code. It was clear and it was lovely and it was part of what seduced us to keep on cruising!

P&O should run a ship (or 2) which caters for those who want casual dress. From reading posts on here, OV type ships for "people who dont do cruising" are needed. But for those of us who do - we can enjoy the traditional cruise holiday that we love. After all - you dont book a beach holiday if you are allergic to sand!

All that is needed to sort all this mess out is for P&O to state in writing the formal dress code for Ventura and Oceana which ACTUALLY applies on the ships. In other words which dining rooms and bars require formal wear.

Do this and enforce it and nobody will be confused and everybody will happy. P&O will get more customers and this forum will be a lot quieter. :D

[William Dean]

"Dress to impress" is as has been said too vague.

 

It is also a charter for peacocks.

 

A Gentleman does not "dress to impress". He dresses appropriately to fit into the environment. His clothing should not be noticed - he leaves that to his wife.

 

The idea of males "dressing to impress" is what leads to the coloured ties, white jackets with black shirts and all the other abominations that are, alas, all to common.

 

Just keep the dress code simple. And enforce it. If it is felt that a different code is appropriate for a different ship, then that is fine - enforce that code in the same way.

 

As long as it is clear to passengers, then there should be no problem. Quite frankly, the old P&O crowd are unlikely to want to sail on these new behemoths so a relaxed code is hardly an issue. On the other hand, Aurora and Oriana should keep a more refined atmosphere and maintain some of the old standards.

 

WD

[Invincible]

I think William's comment is spot on, if there is a dress code it should be enforced, nothing wrong with more relaxed dress codes but enforce them too. Is it something about society today that as soon as anyone makkes a rule someone else wants to change or challenge it.

[Denarius]

I think William's comment is spot on, if there is a dress code it should be enforced, nothing wrong with more relaxed dress codes but enforce them too. Is it something about society today that as soon as anyone makkes a rule someone else wants to change or challenge it.

Long may it continue. If our forebears had not been prepared to challenge the status quo we would still have slavery, women would not have the vote, and numerous other changes to previously established practice would not have occured because no one was prepared to challenge them. Admittedly compared to these issues dress codes on cruise ships is small beer indeed, but the same principle applies. Continued development of society depends on individuals being prepared to critisize practices which they believe to be wrong.

[Single Cruiser]

Wow.

 

Just to be clear what we are asking is for clarity from P&O on the two ships that have been made less formal dropping semi-formal nights.

 

Unlike what Dai B is trying to infer, no one has asked for change or removing formal nights.

 

All that is being asked is to be clear what venues the dress code applies to on formal nights. If the brochure says only certain bars then so should the website. This will allow those who might not wish to be uncomfortable in formal wear guidelines on what venues they can attend and thus suitability or not for a relaxing holiday.

 

NO hidden agendas. No demands for fleetwide changes. No demands to scrap formal night in MDR.

 

In fact all for enforcing the code in mdr. After I dressed in my monkey suit and saw others on my table not dressed up on RCI I can see why. On the 3rd formal night I went to the buffet, show, nightclub in smart casual and not to my table in the MDR.

 

As others on here have proven there is a demand for a UK casual ship but P&O withdrew them and naturally people will look to P&O as the uk line for a solution!

 

Anyhow I'm now looking elsewhere..

[Presto2]

Reading the large number of posts concerning that obsession of P&O passengers - dress codes, or more precisely what other passengers are wearing and whether or not it meets with their personal approval - I recalled one planned innovation of many years ago.

When the arrival of the previous Adonia - sister ship to Oceana - was first announced, we were told that she was going to be an innovative ship aimed at sophisticated adults (!) One major innovation was to be her dress code. At a time well before Ocean Village, when most cruise lines still operated a formal/semi-formal/casual dress code, Adonia was to break with tradition and have just two modes of evening attire - smart casual and "dress to impress". On dress to impress evenings, passengers were to be invited to dress a little more elaborately than on normal smart casual, but not necessarily more formally - the title said it all.

Regretfully, this never happened. P&O stalwarts raged, P&O got cold feet, and when Adonia finally arrived she operated the same dress code as their other ships. Times have, however, moved on.

Is it now time for P&O to revive the Dress to Impress concept, at least on Ventura and Oceana?

 

Been on OV2 and Oceana - simple answer "NO!"

[daiB]

Wow.

 

Just to be clear what we are asking is for clarity from P&O on the two ships that have been made less formal dropping semi-formal nights.

 

Unlike what Dai B is trying to infer, no one has asked for change or removing formal nights.

 

All that is being asked is to be clear what venues the dress code applies to on formal nights. If the brochure says only certain bars then so should the website. This will allow those who might not wish to be uncomfortable in formal wear guidelines on what venues they can attend and thus suitability or not for a relaxing holiday.

 

NO hidden agendas. No demands for fleetwide changes. No demands to scrap formal night in MDR.

 

In fact all for enforcing the code in mdr. After I dressed in my monkey suit and saw others on my table not dressed up on RCI I can see why. On the 3rd formal night I went to the buffet, show, nightclub in smart casual and not to my table in the MDR.

 

As others on here have proven there is a demand for a UK casual ship but P&O withdrew them and naturally people will look to P&O as the uk line for a solution!

 

Anyhow I'm now looking elsewhere..

 

Sorry Craig but that is what this thread is all about. Changing at least 1 ship to all smart casual as per the following taken from the first post.

 

"When the arrival of the previous Adonia - sister ship to Oceana - was first announced, we were told that she was going to be an innovative ship aimed at sophisticated adults (!) One major innovation was to be her dress code. At a time well before Ocean Village, when most cruise lines still operated a formal/semi-formal/casual dress code, Adonia was to break with tradition and have just two modes of evening attire - smart casual and "dress to impress". On dress to impress evenings, passengers were to be invited to dress a little more elaborately than on normal smart casual, but not necessarily more formally - the title said it all."

 

 

Gan Canny

 

 

Dai