Wow. Didn't know I could cause so much fuss

[acmes]

I posted the earlier query about the "disability suite" As some of you pointed out, this is a sensitive subject. I went out for dinner and came home to nearly 20 responses responses on this post and a closure and zero on the post I entered early this morning on a different subject. I am an absolute newbie when it comes to cruising. I'm only doing this because my child wants to go on a cruise. I was not aware that the "disability" notation on the cruiseline website was the equivalent of a handicapped parking spot. I would never stop in one of those--even for 20 seconds. I have no idea how many suites are so allocated on a given ship, because I have never set foot on a ship/boat over 50 feet before. When I went on the NCL website, this was one of the only aft suites offered. I'm not using a TA because my previous attempt to use one resulted in nearly 4 weeks of silence after I handed him a specific cruise on a platter. So I'm trying to do this myself.

 

Bottom line is: I should NOT reserve a "disability" room. It It would be nice if the NCL website were a bit more user friendly and would make it clear that this is subject to changes. There is absolutely no notation in this regard. I've been navigating a couple of cruiseline sites and NCL is not that easy to use. Judging by this website, people put great stock in specific rooms (imagine a website where hotel rooms were so clearly reviewed.) Where I live, every apt. renovation must be ADA compliant (a good thing) but it does not mean that only people people with disabilities can live there.

 

I'm astonished that so many people manage to go on so many cruises, but bear in mind that there is a first time for anyone. So...a little patience please. It was an innocent question about whether a reserved room is always a reserved room. I just wanted to know before I put the money down. A simple "yes, you can be moved to make room for someone who needs the room" would have sufficed.

[EileenN]

taking the time to come back on line with the same topic was brave and especially nice. Thank you for understanding the problem that this has caused in the past. One of the problems is that the cruise lines do not always offer to go out of the way to find out if handicapped cabins are occupied by able bodied people and they are unable to cruise as a result. Hope you are not overly offended by the rage of protests. It is a very hot topic that gets this result with every request for info. Hope to see you posting again on the board for info in other areas and hope we are able to help you in the future.

Happy sailing.

[WinterSky]

I posted the earlier query about the "disability suite" As some of you pointed out, this is a sensitive subject. I went out for dinner and came home to nearly 20 responses responses on this post and a closure and zero on the post I entered early this morning on a different subject. I am an absolute newbie when it comes to cruising. I'm only doing this because my child wants to go on a cruise. I was not aware that the "disability" notation on the cruiseline website was the equivalent of a handicapped parking spot. I would never stop in one of those--even for 20 seconds. I have no idea how many suites are so allocated on a given ship, because I have never set foot on a ship/boat over 50 feet before. When I went on the NCL website, this was one of the only aft suites offered. I'm not using a TA because my previous attempt to use one resulted in nearly 4 weeks of silence after I handed him a specific cruise on a platter. So I'm trying to do this myself.

 

Bottom line is: I should NOT reserve a "disability" room. It It would be nice if the NCL website were a bit more user friendly and would make it clear that this is subject to changes. There is absolutely no notation in this regard. I've been navigating a couple of cruiseline sites and NCL is not that easy to use. Judging by this website, people put great stock in specific rooms (imagine a website where hotel rooms were so clearly reviewed.) Where I live, every apt. renovation must be ADA compliant (a good thing) but it does not mean that only people people with disabilities can live there.

 

I'm astonished that so many people manage to go on so many cruises, but bear in mind that there is a first time for anyone. So...a little patience please. It was an innocent question about whether a reserved room is always a reserved room. I just wanted to know before I put the money down. A simple "yes, you can be moved to make room for someone who needs the room" would have sufficed.

 

I carefully read your response to the many posts, and feel you deserve to receive acknowledgment that you have been respectfully heard. For me personally, it is just an open discussion to exchange information so that people won't have unpleasant surprises, though I may need to work at toning it down a bit. Please be assured that I did not intend to offend, just share as much information as I had to offer.

[nezume]

I was not aware that the "disability" notation on the cruiseline website was the equivalent of a handicapped parking spot. I would never stop in one of those--even for 20 seconds.

 

Bottom line is: I should NOT reserve a "disability" room. Where I live, every apt. renovation must be ADA compliant (a good thing) but it does not mean that only people people with disabilities can live there.

 

To some people it may be the equivilant of a reserved parking space, but I don't think that's the only comparison that can be made. If there is one stall left in the ladies room and it's handicapped, don't think for a second that the next woman in line is going to pass on it just in case someone who is disabled comes along and needs to use it. So if it's the last cabin that works for you, I say it's fair game. Some people might not like it, but they don't have to agree. You can't live your life missing out on things because someone might come along who needs it. Now if there's something available that works for you but is not handicapped, by all means use it and leave the disabled room for someone else. And you have good point about your apartments.:cool:

 

Oh and welcome to the wonderful world of cruising:)

[ricew001]

Welcome Acmes. I'm sorry you got pounced on. I have gotten such good information from this board, but I also must say, I have seen some behavior that I would not tolerate from my own child and would expect better from adults.

Your response here is well written and very thoughtful. I hope you aren't discouraged from posting here. When I get the chance, I will try to send you info that I found helpful. I've only taken 3 cruises but I have researched my trips extensively and obsessively and am happy to share. (Feel free to read my review in my tag line.)

good luck and I hope your cruise is fantastic!

[78ultra81108]

Maybe NCL just needs one single more step if a passenger is about to book an accessible cabin, like a pop-up where you have to check that you are aware it is accessible and that you may be bumped? Maybe even initial it?

 

(Also in defense of using a handicapped stall, in my experience, 99% of the time, that's where the fold-down baby changing table is! And of course I wouldn't change my baby on the bathroom floor!)

[acmes]

I really think the cruise line(s) are at fault when they don't make things clear. They have scads of money and it doesn't cost anything to make pop-up windows appear. They have a "legend" with various symbols but there's nothing to indicate that a specific room is subject to change. Clearly the disability rooms are a big deal. The way NCL website is structured, they warn you that a given reservation is held for only 30 minutes. I'm pretty close to my ideal cruise date of summer '11, so the idea that the last "aft" suite could be reserved within the next few days is realistic. I always do my own travel arrangements and have an inborn suspicion of travel agents--and frankly my most recent experience has underscored it. I've been spending hours on this site trying to sort it all out. Cruising is a completely different game than other forms of travel...as I'm sure you'll all agree. Just trying to come up to speed, but now I know!

[WinterSky]

Maybe NCL just needs one single more step if a passenger is about to book an accessible cabin, like a pop-up where you have to check that you are aware it is accessible and that you may be bumped? Maybe even initial it?

Your popup window idea would give people the information they need to decide if they want to take the risk of being moved or not. Great idea!

 

(Also in defense of using a handicapped stall, in my experience, 99% of the time, that's where the fold-down baby changing table is! And of course I wouldn't change my baby on the bathroom floor!)

Last stall, last cabin, etc. should always be up for grabs to the next person. It is only an issue when the person who doesn't need them has other options available.

[willysgrandma]

You are absolutely right about this. These actually should be blocked from being booked - they should be booked through the res.center only with proof of disability and only put out for booking if it is near to the cruising date and the cabin is still open.

 

I commend you for coming back and clarifying the situation. And if this is your first cruise - I don't think your question was a stupid one - I think you did the right thing by asking if you might be moved if you are able bodied.

 

Enjoy your first cruise - and please don't hesitate to come back and ask questions.

 

 

Bottom line is: I should NOT reserve a "disability" room. It It would be nice if the NCL website were a bit more user friendly and would make it clear that this is subject to changes. There is absolutely no notation in this regard. I've been navigating a couple of cruiseline sites and NCL is not that easy to use. Judging by this website, people put great stock in specific rooms (imagine a website where hotel rooms were so clearly reviewed.) Where I live, every apt. renovation must be ADA compliant (a good thing) but it does not mean that only people people with disabilities can live there.

 

I'm astonished that so many people manage to go on so many cruises, but bear in mind that there is a first time for anyone. So...a little patience please. It was an innocent question about whether a reserved room is always a reserved room. I just wanted to know before I put the money down. A simple "yes, you can be moved to make room for someone who needs the room" would have sufficed.

[faymuiheng]

I'm glad you got the info you needed. Too bad you had to endure the answers from some of the posters. Why they would make it a personal issue is beyond me. Like you said. Yes or No. Thats all you needed.

 

Welcome to NCL.

[jessemon]

Anyone on any cruiseline may book a handicapped cabin whether or not thay are disabled...The kicker to it is that if a passanger boards that is actually disabled and that cabin is needed and you are not handicapped you will be moved out of that cabin...

The cruiselines book the cabins not knowing how many of those cabins will be needed...If they have 20 handicapped cabins and only 10 are needed they do not want to lose the revenue on the other 10...

All cruiselines should make that clear not just NCL....

[78ultra81108]

What constitutes a disability to NCL? What if it is invisible? (Lupus, MS, visual impairment, balance difficulty) and the passenger doesn't have "proof" at embarkation? Or a doctor's note? Or a visual "sign" like a walker or a wheelchair? I really hope that all passengers who need an accessible cabin can advocate for themselves in order to cruise in comfort!

 

I guess I'm wondering how passengers with *any* need for an accessible room can insure they get one.

 

I really feel for passengers who have to meet these challenges on a daily basis in *all* arenas of their lives.

[willysgrandma]

The accessible cabins have wider doorways so wheelchairs and walkers can get into them among many of the features. They also may have wider showers so a wheelchair can get in and some have a seat in the shower. It is more for mobility challenged passengers. Some of the cabins have higher beds or devices to help someone with mobility issues to get into the bed.

 

All cruise lines have a special needs department that should be contacted as soon as a passenger is booked to let the line know what the passenger needs, or if they are bringing a wheelchair or walker, etc.

 

This is a list of some of the things that NCL offers for accessibility:

 

http://www.ncl.com/nclweb/cruiser/cmsPages.html?pageId=Accessibility

 

And this has more info on their policy:

 

http://www.ncl.com/nclweb/cruiser/cmsPages.html?pageId=AccessibleCruising

 

 

 

What constitutes a disability to NCL? What if it is invisible? (Lupus, MS, visual impairment, balance difficulty) and the passenger doesn't have "proof" at embarkation? Or a doctor's note? Or a visual "sign" like a walker or a wheelchair? I really hope that all passengers who need an accessible cabin can advocate for themselves in order to cruise in comfort!

 

I guess I'm wondering how passengers with *any* need for an accessible room can insure they get one.

 

I really feel for passengers who have to meet these challenges on a daily basis in *all* arenas of their lives.

[DeWSkog]

I just discovered that your original thread has been closed. I didn't know that was posssible. New knowledge for me.

 

I for one am glad you posed the question. I am newly disabled and I have learned a great deal reading all the postings. All new knowledge for me.

 

There are a few posters on CC like to used words that inflame or bully. Ignore them and please don't let them turn you off to CC. CC is a great way to learn about cruising and to make some new friends.

 

See all that we have learned from your simple request for knowledge.

 

I have reserved a non-assessible suite on the Pearl. I am bringing my own portable hand rails and NCL is supplying me with a shower chair. If they didn't have a chair I would have been willing to bring my own.

 

The one thing I read that I didn't like hearing is that if I book an assessible suite then I may need to prove that I am disabled. You may not be able to tell I am disabled. So how do I prove it? I am not aware of any card that I can carry that says this person is disabled. Like the license plates that my state has.

 

Thank you again OP for posing the question.

 

 

Donna

[SuperTrooper00]

I'm astonished that so many people manage to go on so many cruises, but bear in mind that there is a first time for anyone. So...a little patience please. It was an innocent question about whether a reserved room is always a reserved room. I just wanted to know before I put the money down. A simple "yes, you can be moved to make room for someone who needs the room" would have sufficed.

 

Acmes, I assure you that you are the last person on here that needs to explain themselves. We have some board members here that need to take a major chill pill.

[dopeyngrumpy]

As others have said - ignore the flames ... You did right to ask and well done for coming back as you have, wish there was more of this on these boards. The medical center on Deck 2 will pass out the chill pills to those who reacted so strongly and negatively.

 

We too have ended up booked in an accessible Penthouse on our October trip, only cabin of grade we wanted left. NCL sent us paperwork to complete on our needs and I phoned them and told them we did not need an accessible cabin but it was the only one available. They were surprised to be called but at least they cannot say they were not told.

 

I like the stall analogy - this was the last one open so I grabbed it, and yes - if they want to move me across or up I'm happy to do so. There are other accessible cabins of other grades still open for booking if others wish to come along.

 

There is a fine line between providing equitable access and providing preferential service, some of the initial respondents comments seem to indicate that they believe that disability or mobility problems should receive preference, I for one do not believe this is the case for the majority of disabled people who just want an even break.

 

I'm off to put my flameproof overalls on :), and in so doing climb off of my soapbox :eek:

 

David

[beachchick]

I did not read the original thread, but I'm not surprised it got heated. Such threads often do.

 

My only clarification is this: No matter what NCL tells you, they will not move you if someone who needs an H/C (wheelchair accessible) suite wants to book it. They simply do not do that. Once a cabin is booked it's out of inventory. It is not noted that an able-bodied person has booked it and will be moved if necessary. That's especially true for suites. Where would they move you? There are only a few suites at that level. They're truly not going to move you up to, for example, the Owner's Suite from a Penthouse to accomodate someone who needs an H/C cabin. They simply don't do it.

 

In fact, they are forbidden by ADA regulations from asking someone to prove they need an H/C cabin. They can ask if someone needs any special accomodations or general questions, but they cannot ask what a person's disability is or why they need the cabin.

 

Here's the way I see it: Before final payment, A/B passengers should not book any of the very few H/C cabins on the ship. After final payment, if it's the only cabin/suite left in that category, then the bookings should be more open. Within 30 days of cruise date, all remaining cabins should be available to everyone. As much as I believe the cruise line should keep H/C cabins for those who truly need them, they also shouldn't be expected to keep them vacant indefinitely and cruise with them empty.

 

One final note is that just like with H/C parking spaces, some disabilities are invisible (or mostly so). The thing is that the H/C cabins are the only ones with doors wide enough to accomodate wheelchairs. So even though my hubby and I technically qualify, we never book one because we can make do in a regular cabin and know we're fortunate that we do not (yet and hopefully never) need a wheelchair.

 

I'm glad you came here and I suspect that you received some pretty heated responses in your first thread. Please understand that it is a very touchy subject for many, especially because there are actually A/B people who intentionally book H/C cabins for "the extra space" or "because I have kids who bring lots of stuff" or "we just like them better." That's why you probably got some "knee jerk" responses from those who have been shut out of cruising due to both the cruise line's lax policies and some selfish other travelers. Let me be clear: You are not one of those selfish travelers; you asked an honest question as a newbie to cruising and you deserved an explanation, not a lecture or attack.

 

beachchick

[terrymtex01]

Acmes.. First.. welcome to cruising and to cruise critic. Sorry you had such a bad experience. Sometimes people's postings can come across as a bashing and they truely didnt mean it that way.. sometimes they do. You just have to develope a tough skin if you want to be a poster on CC. 8-)

 

I am going to tell you after speaking with many disabled friends who cruise and from reading other online disabled CC friends postings, I can tell you that while the cruiseline maybe can legally move you out of a HC cabin.. they don't. If they do it is VERY rare. I have even spoken with fellow pax who didn't even realized until they were onboard the ship and in their stateroo mthat it was an HC cabin... and went to the front desk to tell them if anyone needs an HC cabin and wasn't able to get one they would be willing to switch with them.. the front desk told them to not worry about it, that it wouldn't happen. So... maybe legally they can move you, but I doubt very much they would. Where the moral issue comes into play is knowlingly booking an HC cabin, especially if there are other cabins available that would meet your needs. If it is the last one left, I do agree with others who say its ok to book it. But if you have any other choice, I personally feel you should book the other choice.

[Got2Cruise]

oh puleeze. do what you feel is the right thing. if you want to pretend you are disabled, then go right ahead, after all, there is no law saying you can't. but don't forget, there is such a thing as karma.

[cruiser1955a]

ACMES, Your original post clearly stated that you were new to cruising. Your question was perfectly reasonable. Some of the replies were not.

 

Here's a few more tips, since you're a newbie....

 

1) If you book directly with NCL, you stand a chance of being offered a last minute upgrade (for a good price).

 

2) Don't post a new thread asking whether anyone would mind if you smoke on your balcony (another touchy subject).

 

Enjoy your cruise, and enjoy this board. It' a great way to pass the time while you wait for your cruise.

[monicajay]

I'm astonished that so many people manage to go on so many cruises, but bear in mind that there is a first time for anyone. So...a little patience please. It was an innocent question about whether a reserved room is always a reserved room. I just wanted to know before I put the money down. A simple "yes, you can be moved to make room for someone who needs the room" would have sufficed.

 

I remember being astonished too. I'm sure after you've cruised once, you'll get 'hooked' like the rest of us.:D

 

If you don't want to use a TA you might want to actually call NCL when you are ready to book, sometimes easier than the web-site and you can make sure there is nothing noisy over or under your cabin.

 

Most people on these boards genuinely want to help. Over the years I have learned so much and met many interesting people on the roll call section.

 

Best wishes and enjoy your first cruise!

[che5904]

 

A couple of points acmes on this, yes, your question was a valid one. However, if you read through some posts on this site, you will find there is no such thing as a “simple question” or a “simple answer”. This thread was actually quite mild compared to some. Heated discussions on CC can erupt over silly things like packing lists. And unfortunately being a newbie does not make you any less of a target, although I will say some of the more seasoned posters will remind others that the OP (original poster) is a newbie. Which sometimes will simmer things down for a little bit to eventually kick back into heated mode. One thing you said in your original post, which probably didn’t help you was “I'm really interested in having an aft cabin and there aren't many left”. Leaving some repliers with the impression that although you had options for the same style of cabin and category you were willing to book a HC. In this post you state “When I went on the NCL website, this was one of the only aft suites offered.” That being the case may have come out with a different outcome of posts, (remember I did say MAY).

You have a very valid point with “Where I live, every apt. renovation must be ADA compliant (a good thing) but it does not mean that only people with disabilities can live there.” You are also very right that NCL does not make it easy to know that they only have limited cabins available in each category.

[popsec]

Just keep in mind when reading thru the posts on cruise critic that most of the people you'll meet on a cruise have never heard of cruise critic and don't follow our "CC rules of conduct" on the ship.....for example....

 

Most people in the dining room don't really care what you're wearing so feel free to wear shorts, jeans etc if the dress code allows it

 

Although no one likes deck chair hogs, I've only seen one person confronted about it in the 33 cruises we've been on

 

We all know that bringing your own alcohol onboard is "stealing" from the cruise line's revenue but it happens and sometimes is possible to get away with. This also goes for sharing a soda card.

 

People will smoke on the ships but smokers won't be the recipient of the nastiness that is displayed on these forums

 

The list goes on.....

 

Bottom line, read as much as you can but don't take everything you read here as gospel and don't let it affect your cruise.

 

By the way, welcome to Cruise Critic and hope you have an awesome first cruise with many more to come!

[che5904]

Just keep in mind when reading thru the posts on cruise critic that most of the people you'll meet on a cruise have never heard of cruise critic and don't follow our "CC rules of conduct" on the ship.....for example....

 

Most people in the dining room don't really care what you're wearing so feel free to wear shorts, jeans etc if the dress code allows it

 

Although no one likes deck chair hogs, I've only seen one person confronted about it in the 33 cruises we've been on

 

We all know that bringing your own alcohol onboard is "stealing" from the cruise line's revenue but it happens and sometimes is possible to get away with. This also goes for sharing a soda card.

 

People will smoke on the ships but smokers won't be the recipient of the nastiness that is displayed on these forums

 

The list goes on.....

 

Bottom line, read as much as you can but don't take everything you read here as gospel and don't let it affect your cruise.

 

By the way, welcome to Cruise Critic and hope you have an awesome first cruise with many more to come!

 

I agree completely

 

You forgot to mention to the OP that these are also "sensitive" topics, that can turn pretty wild on here.

 

I will add one more thought though. That although a lot of times the OP innocently asks a question that is unknowingly on the "hot topic" list. A lot of the flaming is not necessarily directed at the OP but to each other and the OP kinda gets caught in the crossfire.

[Minoushka]

I have often also been ATTACKED for suggesting something or questioning something else . Some people on these boards get VEry personal and downright mean !!! Do not take it personally . Filter the info you get IGNORE the rude or condescending responses and stay with the positives

I once got a cabin on Celebrity with a huge cabin near elevators . A TA told me only Celebrity could give it to me ....no TA was allowed to do so ..... so I booked directly because it could be given to a limited mobility person The TA gave me WRONG info as to Celebrity taking it away if needed My PVP on Celebrity told me ...no way if HE gave it to me ...and we did keep it If someone Had needed it of course I would have given it back ...but that did not happen

I tend to deal Directly with the cruiseline ...I just find it easier TRUE I may miss out on bonuses or other incentives but I do prefer to deal directly Call NCL directly You can also get a PCC to help you

Bon Voyage

 

Michele