New HAL smoking policy

[ironin]

I'm not looking for creditability, only a smoke free balcony and unfortunately the smoke doesn't disappear all that quickly even with a 20 knot wind.

 

Do you honestly believe that, if someone smokes a cigarette while sitting on a verandah located as close to the bow as possible, you are going smell or see that person's smoke if you are sitting on a verandah all the way aft?

[1 HappyCruiser]

Do you honestly believe that, if someone smokes a cigarette while sitting on a verandah located as close to the bow as possible, you are going smell or see that person's smoke if you are sitting on a verandah all the way aft?

 

I really don't expect you to believe it but I can smell smoke coming from a car in front of me doing 40 mph at about 4 or 5 car lengths distance.

[ironin]

I really don't expect you to believe it but I can smell smoke coming from a car in front of me doing 40 mph at about 4 or 5 car lengths distance.

 

Not necessarily a question of believing. I can believe you believe that. Still, the average Vista class ship is over 900' (45 car-lengths) long. The average S-class ship is over 700' (35 car-lengths) long. The average R-class ship is around 780' (39-car lengths) long.

[Rutland Gate]

I really don't expect you to believe it but I can smell smoke coming from a car in front of me doing 40 mph at about 4 or 5 car lengths distance.

 

 

I don't.

[Gunther1]

cooking food, fumes from the smokestakes, various sea smells, various alcohols, body odors, perfumes, dirty diapers, chlorine from the pools, etc.

 

If one has a nose that good for distances that far, all other odors must be added in. VERY impressive !!!!

[ironin]

As long as we're talking, lets talk about some points you raised:

Yes HAL deserves criticism also and I'm positive they'll be getting more than their share as soon as more & more smokers migrate to HAL because of their lenient smoking policy.

That's fine as far as it goes. What you fear may happen may happen. I happen to think it won't but at the same time I do think the unintended consequence of the change will be that more smokers who previously rarely or never smoked on their balconies may well do so.

 

How else can people get the cruise line to change policy for the better unless it's given in the form of criticism?

Theoretically, Carnival Corp. divisions ARE independently run, but it beggars belief to suppose that announcements by three different divisions on the same day were purely coincidental. This has all the hallmarks of a corporate decision and (depending on one's point of view) HAL drew the short straw.

 

Neither Carnival Corp. nor HAL spend much time ( if any) worrying about what is said here on Cruise Critic. A tiny fraction of a small percentage of their passengers come here to do anything but read or ask about specific information related to their upcoming cruise. The vast majority of those don't return until their next cruise.

 

However, both Carnival and HAL do pay a great deal of attention to customer satisfaction surveys completed by passengers aboard their ships. As we've seen here, many people are not willing to vote with their feet or their wallet and go to a line that has a policy they prefer. Many of them probably also fill out those surveys and regularly mark 8 or 9 about their cruise experience and their stateroom.

 

If you really want to be effective in your criticism, mark almost everything as you normally would and then give the ship, the stateroom, and the cruise a "1." Politely explain on the form, had it not been for this specific policy, your mark would have been an "8" or a "9" (or whatever). If enough people do that, you can bet they will sit up and pay attention. Enough of those incredibly low marks will definitely skew the overall ratings and you can bet they will check for the reason why. If it is almost always one reason, it could have great influence. CCL brags in their annual reports that dissatisfied customers (those giving their cruise anything less than a 5 on the 9-point scale I assume) are just 4% of all passengers. 95% rate their cruise as "satisfactory" or better. On average, 40% rate their cruise as "outstanding."

 

As their new policy was only announced a few days ago, chances are slim that they will make any other changes within a year. Even though the new policy is not in effect now, you and others who share your viewpoint can start giving low marks now and indicate the reason: smoking on nearby balconies ruined your cruise.

 

Anyone considering this idea: please don't take it out on the staff or any other not-smoking related aspect of shipboard life and mark everything a "1". (Someone might lose their job if you do!) Mark your surveys just as you normally would.

They're not my standards alone but that of the majority of cruisers on the ships.

Ships are not democracies. You always have other options.

[regnig]

I'm not looking for creditability, only a smoke free balcony and unfortunately the smoke doesn't disappear all that quickly even with a 20 knot wind.

 

Hey HappyCruiser, I just gave up a darn good stateroom on Princess you can have. In fact I'll even throw in my Princess Elite benefits for your use; free internet, free laundry and dry cleaning, free stocked mini-bar, priority boarding & disembarkation, free Canapés, free formal photo, priority tendering, 10% discount on all on-board purchases, OBC & etc. Just sail after January 15th and you will have no worries about people smoking on their balconies. :D

[HeatherInFlorida]

.................Any individual who causes others to lose some of their use of the ship deserves all the criticize they receive.

 

It's true that they have permission to smoke on the balconies but they still deserve all the criticism they receive for doing so. Just because the cruise line allows them to smoke doesn't mean that their justified in causing discomfort to so many of their neighbors in the process.

 

My bold in the above quotes.

 

1(Un)HappyCruiser, there are just too many of your posts to quote, but there's 2.

 

No one, absolutely no one, deserves the kind of criticism that has been dished out on this thread.

 

The final word here is that whether you and a few others personally like it or not, HAL allows smoking on balconies and therefore no one owes you an explanation of why they smoke there and you most certainly have no right to criticize them. If they're considerate they'll lean 'round and ask you if it bothers you, but that should be the extent of it.

 

As for all the other posts about smelling smoke from the bow to the stern or 4 or 5 car lengths behind another car? This takes embellishment and exaggeration to a new height and loses your argument altogether.

 

You may smell something from the smokestack, or you may smell the exhaust from the cars, but you most definitely do NOT smell the smoke from someone's cigarette. Make your argument reasonable and rational and you'll get a lot more people supporting all that you say.

 

The only argument here is with HAL and HAL alone ... no one on this thread.

 

Passenger "A" books a HAL Balcony stateroom because he smokes.

 

Passenger "B" books a HAL Balcony stateroom knowing that HAL allows passengers to smoke there and then commences to bitch about the smoke.

 

Virtually everyone on this board knows the existing HAL rules about smoking. If you don't smoke and can't stand to be around it then book a different cruise line than HAL. Quit trying to enforce YOUR STANDARDS on other people!:mad:

 

And there you have it!!!:D:D Hop on another darned boat!:D

[ironin]

cooking food, fumes from the smokestakes, various sea smells, various alcohols, body odors, perfumes, dirty diapers, chlorine from the pools, etc.

 

If one has a nose that good for distances that far, all other odors must be added in. VERY impressive !!!!

 

Hadn't thought of that! Reminds me that on our last cruise (22 days aboard the Zuiderdam, FLL-Vancouver), our verandah was virtually unusable for over half the trip. OK, to be fair, it was usable provided the ship was going at least 15knots or so. Whenever it putt-putted, as it did in Golfo Dulce, or came to a full stop, the stench from what I was told were the the holding tanks (BWDIK?) was overwhelming. Obviously, this wasn't normal and they were having some kind of problem. Just as obviously, as they never sent so much as a note to anyone about it, they didn't want to talk about it.

 

I admit to finally sending a polite note about the 11th or 12th day asking if they could update those of us affected (a large chunk of the verandahs/suites on the port side) on what was going on. They never replied, of course. Someone tried calling, but we were out enjoying the fresh air on the starboard side and they never called back. Eventually, it went away. We even laughed about it then ("Most expensive OV cabin we've been in!") and had a marvelous time.

[jcrandle]

As long as we're talking, lets talk about some points you raised:

That's fine as far as it goes. What you fear may happen may happen. I happen to think it won't but at the same time I do think the unintended consequence of the change will be that more smokers who previously rarely or never smoked on their balconies may well do so.

 

Theoretically, Carnival Corp. divisions ARE independently run, but it beggars belief to suppose that announcements by three different divisions on the same day were purely coincidental. This has all the hallmarks of a corporate decision and (depending on one's point of view) HAL drew the short straw.

 

Neither Carnival Corp. nor HAL spend much time ( if any) worrying about what is said here on Cruise Critic. A tiny fraction of a small percentage of their passengers come here to do anything but read or ask about specific information related to their upcoming cruise. The vast majority of those don't return until their next cruise.

 

However, both Carnival and HAL do pay a great deal of attention to customer satisfaction surveys completed by passengers aboard their ships. As we've seen here, many people are not willing to vote with their feet or their wallet and go to a line that has a policy they prefer. Many of them probably also fill out those surveys and regularly mark 8 or 9 about their cruise experience and their stateroom.

 

If you really want to be effective in your criticism, mark almost everything as you normally would and then give the ship, the stateroom, and the cruise a "1." Politely explain on the form, had it not been for this specific policy, your mark would have been an "8" or a "9" (or whatever). If enough people do that, you can bet they will sit up and pay attention. Enough of those incredibly low marks will definitely skew the overall ratings and you can bet they will check for the reason why. If it is almost always one reason, it could have great influence. CCL brags in their annual reports that dissatisfied customers (those giving their cruise anything less than a 5 on the 9-point scale I assume) are just 4% of all passengers. 95% rate their cruise as "satisfactory" or better. On average, 40% rate their cruise as "outstanding."

 

As their new policy was only announced a few days ago, chances are slim that they will make any other changes within a year. Even though the new policy is not in effect now, you and others who share your viewpoint can start giving low marks now and indicate the reason: smoking on nearby balconies ruined your cruise.

 

Anyone considering this idea: please don't take it out on the staff or any other not-smoking related aspect of shipboard life and mark everything a "1". (Someone might lose their job if you do!) Mark your surveys just as you normally would.

Ships are not democracies. You always have other options.

 

As President Reagan said, vote with your feet. I have an on-board deposit on an undesignated future cruise that I will likely never book, and will forfeit the deposit to HAL. I discovered that Celebrity has a much more restrictive smoking policy (not in staterooms or on balconies). Their ships, staff, and service have been comparable to HAL. It would take a remarkable itinerary to convince me to book a balcony on HAL and put up with smokers.

[1 HappyCruiser]

Hey HappyCruiser, I just gave up a darn good stateroom on Princess you can have. In fact I'll even throw in my Princess Elite benefits for your use; free internet, free laundry and dry cleaning, free stocked mini-bar, priority boarding & disembarkation, free Canapés, free formal photo, priority tendering, 10% discount on all on-board purchases, OBC & etc. Just sail after January 15th and you will have no worries about people smoking on their balconies. :D

 

You are so right. Thanks for the offer but we don't need any of your bene's. We've got enough of our own & plan on enjoying them even more in 2012 & beyond on our smoke free balcony & room. It's to bad you built up all your days with a cruise line that limited your smoking enjoyment.

 

To HeatherInFlorida, Hope you also have a quiet smoke free balcony in your travels, but I doubt it when all the people beginning to change over to HAL.

Good luck with the stink and if you need a fresh air balcony come on over to Princess.

[1 HappyCruiser]

I don't.

 

I wish we could get together & we could get a little bet going about my ability to call it correct with 99% accuracy. I'd even give you 10 to 1 odds.

[Charles4515]

 

Neither Carnival Corp. nor HAL spend much time ( if any) worrying about what is said here on Cruise Critic. A tiny fraction of a small percentage of their passengers come here to do anything but read or ask about specific information related to their upcoming cruise. The vast majority of those don't return until their next cruise.

 

However, both Carnival and HAL do pay a great deal of attention to customer satisfaction surveys completed by passengers aboard their ships. As we've seen here, many people are not willing to vote with their feet or their wallet and go to a line that has a policy they prefer. Many of them probably also fill out those surveys and regularly mark 8 or 9 about their cruise experience and their stateroom.

 

 

I think they do care about what is said on Cruise Critic, Facebook and Twitter. Twitter is a good place to get replies. I have had responses. But with Carnival it is the bottom line that they pay the most attention too. You mention the surveys. Carnival does not have the surveys any more. They don't want to hear about complaints or kudos. So much for customer satisfaction. It is all bottom line on Carnival.

[cruisin'girl]

I think they do care about what is said on Cruise Critic, Facebook and Twitter. I have had responses. But with Carnival it is the bottom line that they pay the most attention too. You mention the surveys. Carnival does not have the surveys any more. They don't want to hear about complaints or kudos. So much for customer satisfaction. It is all bottom line on Carnival.

It's all bottom line on every cruiseline, HAL included. This was a Carnivel corporate decision and they are hoping to move smokers over to HAL's balconies and let Princess compete one on one with Celebrity. Celebrity was capturing too much of the non-smoking market with its smoke-free staterooms/balconies.

[Charles4515]

It's true that they have permission to smoke on the balconies but they still deserve all the criticism they receive for doing so. Just because the cruise line allows them to smoke doesn't mean that their justified in causing discomfort to so many of their neighbors in the process.

 

I don't blame smokers for smoking where they are allowed to do so. I won't criticise the smokers for smoking on balconies. I blame HAL for allowing them to smoke. HAL could have and should have restricted smoking there. The issue is with HAL and any discomfort is HAL's responsibility.

[ironin]

As President Reagan said, vote with your feet.

 

Oh, I agree with that 1000% (-McGovern ;)!!! I was just giving those who don't want to walk another option. IIRC, your suggestion was already made a couple of times upthread and the suggestion denounced or ignored. (Might have been another one of the contentious threads on the same subject (now locked). Anyway, thanks for the apt reminder.

[ironin]

I think they do care about what is said on Cruise Critic, Facebook and Twitter. Twitter is a good place to get replies. I have had responses. But with Carnival it is the bottom line that they pay the most attention too. You mention the surveys. Carnival does not have the surveys any more. They don't want to hear about complaints or kudos. So much for customer satisfaction. It is all bottom line on Carnival.

 

I agree that Twitter is great for responses to specific problems. Don't do Facebook so I'll take your word for that. However, as you say, it is always about the bottom line and it is pretty obvious that CCL made a corporate decision here. If the Princess change goes well (and I think it will) I do expect that the HAL policy will change, too - not as quickly as many here hope but not as far in the future as others here hope, either.

[1 HappyCruiser]

As long as we're talking, lets talk about some points you raised:

That's fine as far as it goes. What you fear may happen may happen. I happen to think it won't but at the same time I do think the unintended consequence of the change will be that more smokers who previously rarely or never smoked on their balconies may well do so.

 

Theoretically, Carnival Corp. divisions ARE independently run, but it beggars belief to suppose that announcements by three different divisions on the same day were purely coincidental. This has all the hallmarks of a corporate decision and (depending on one's point of view) HAL drew the short straw.

 

Neither Carnival Corp. nor HAL spend much time ( if any) worrying about what is said here on Cruise Critic. A tiny fraction of a small percentage of their passengers come here to do anything but read or ask about specific information related to their upcoming cruise. The vast majority of those don't return until their next cruise.

 

However, both Carnival and HAL do pay a great deal of attention to customer satisfaction surveys completed by passengers aboard their ships. As we've seen here, many people are not willing to vote with their feet or their wallet and go to a line that has a policy they prefer. Many of them probably also fill out those surveys and regularly mark 8 or 9 about their cruise experience and their stateroom.

 

If you really want to be effective in your criticism, mark almost everything as you normally would and then give the ship, the stateroom, and the cruise a "1." Politely explain on the form, had it not been for this specific policy, your mark would have been an "8" or a "9" (or whatever). If enough people do that, you can bet they will sit up and pay attention. Enough of those incredibly low marks will definitely skew the overall ratings and you can bet they will check for the reason why. If it is almost always one reason, it could have great influence. CCL brags in their annual reports that dissatisfied customers (those giving their cruise anything less than a 5 on the 9-point scale I assume) are just 4% of all passengers. 95% rate their cruise as "satisfactory" or better. On average, 40% rate their cruise as "outstanding."

 

As their new policy was only announced a few days ago, chances are slim that they will make any other changes within a year. Even though the new policy is not in effect now, you and others who share your viewpoint can start giving low marks now and indicate the reason: smoking on nearby balconies ruined your cruise.

 

Anyone considering this idea: please don't take it out on the staff or any other not-smoking related aspect of shipboard life and mark everything a "1". (Someone might lose their job if you do!) Mark your surveys just as you normally would.

Ships are not democracies. You always have other options.

 

So true. The people on this board really believe that the cruise lines ponder over each & every post. Nothing could be further from the truth. The only thing they care about is where the people will spend their money & the way is stands right now, the smokers will be coming over to HAL & utilizing the balconies to the fullest in 2012. What other logical, similar choice is there? Not Princess, not NCL, not Celebrity, not Costa. The HAL non smoking public had better make their voices heard on their next trip in no uncertain terms if they wish to make their cruise line even better. I don't believe this is being too critical but it's the only way to improve a bad situation for a decent cruise line.

[DizzyDallasDi]

It is all bottom line on Carnival.

 

All businesses are all about the bottom line. You say this like it's a bad thing. :confused: I'm certain their shareholders (not to mention their employees) are very happy about that.

 

You can bet your bottom dollar that Carnival Corp. crunched all the surveys and numbers about smoking on their various lines and changed their policies accordingly to maximize profits. Follow the money.... :D

[cruisin'girl]

I don't normally post on the HAL board since I don't cruise HAL but the smoking conversations here are no different than on Princess. The only reason I've been reading this section is because of the recent smoking changes which seem to have some effect on all the cruise lines if even by the fact that people might migrate here from Princess.

it smoke free.

You're a Princess cruiser who hasn't ever, and now won't ever, cruise on HAL, so what's the point of even posting here telling HAL how to run their cruiseline? You should be happy Princess smokers will leave for HAL though maybe you just have to have something to b!tch about to be happy?

[HeatherInFlorida]

You're a Princess cruiser who hasn't ever' date=' and now won't ever, cruise on HAL, so what's the point of even posting here telling HAL how to run their cruiseline? You should be happy Princess smokers will leave for HAL though maybe you just have to have something to b!tch about to be happy?[/quote']

 

Are you kidding me???!!!! This is a person who has posted more on this thread than any other member and she/he has never cruised on HAL and obviously now has no intention to do so? In fact she/he has posted 29 times or approximately 10% of the posts.

 

So where the heck is the "beef"?

 

Something is rotten in Denmark and I suspect someone is pulling our legs.:rolleyes: And if so, shame on me for biting.

[DugboatLarry]

:Dgo to to Cuba? and if so, how can I bring a dozen back? Puff

[Richie2pies]

I'm not looking for creditability, only a smoke free balcony and unfortunately the smoke doesn't disappear all that quickly even with a 20 knot wind.

 

Stop cruising HAL. With the statements you've made here, your credibility is shot. Next, you'll have us believe you can smell smoke in a house 4 blocks away. Are you for real or just a parady poster looking to stir the pot?

[cruisin'girl]

Stop cruising HAL. With the statements you've made here, your credibility is shot. Next, you'll have us believe you can smell smoke in a house 4 blocks away. Are you for real or just a parady poster looking to stir the pot?

This poster has never even cruised HAL.

[1 HappyCruiser]

You're a Princess cruiser who hasn't ever' date=' and now won't ever, cruise on HAL, so what's the point of even posting here telling HAL how to run their cruiseline? You should be happy Princess smokers will leave for HAL though maybe you just have to have something to b!tch about to be happy?[/quote']

 

Although I don't cruse HAL there are some itineraries that I do like & have given real consideration in the past but now that Princess has changed their stance on smoking I doubt I would do so. If the day came that HAL does change I would consider it once again & encouraging their customers to stand up for their cruise line is a way of making it happen all the sooner.