passenger behind won't let you recline

[vjmatty]

However that passenger can also slam their seat back into your knees--repeatedly. Then what will you do? Frankly if airlines didn't want seats to recline they would make them so they wouldn't. If you have a problem with that, perhaps you should chose a no-frills line that has non recline-able seats. Or chose the exit row seats--the seats in front of those don't recline.

 

You are the one with the issue, so you should be the one to spend the money or miles to upgrade.

 

As I said, I try to be polite within reason, and someone who is being an ass about it is going to get his kneecaps bruised or broken.

 

Are you really saying you would try to injure someone's knees just so you could recline? Where do you think a taller person's knees are going to go in order to give you enough room?

 

Much as I'd like to be as comfortable as possible, it is not something I'd insist on at the expense of another passenger, whether that expense be an injury or merely pain.

 

I guess the American sense of entitlement is alive and well :(

[Waihekean]

Gosh, it had never occurred to me, that you would not recline your seat.

 

Mind you, I only fly long hauls of about 25 hrs at a time and over two planes. Noticed last time (both Singapore Airlines) that the seat on a newer model plane reclined further back then the older model plane with the "stiffer" seat which was hard on my bad back. Also the seat padding was thinner and had some kind of metal box on the floor where one foot would have been, plus this being the last stretch, made it very uncomfortable.

 

On one leg of the return trip I noticed that someones knees were banging a lot against my seat, I thought the passenger was very restless:eek:

 

On all flights I have been when it is time to eat the majority of passengers tilt their seats back to the upstanding position. If someone doesn't the FA will tell them.

 

Used to always book the bulk head seat, but:( those days are over.

These are now automatically reserved for tall people and the babies.

 

Let's hope that one day soon seat space is more aligned to our bodies in this century and not the last century or will the "sheeple status" get worse???:rolleyes:

[Jade13]

I had a situation where the guy behind me put one of the Knee Defenders on the back of my seat so that I could not recline at all. As I didn't know there was such a thing I assumed my seat was broken and reported it as such. The guy had a fit when ordered to remove his gizmo by the FA. An absolute fit.

 

It was ugly.

 

That is unbelievable. Once removed, I would have been concerned the rest of the flight that the guy would kick my seat (once I reclined), or dumped some drink over my head.

[Bramcruiser]

Interesting topic but - just like the smoking threads - its seems human nature and sense of entitlements/rights is causing a great stir.

 

I think the answer is just common sense. I must admit that after reading these posts I have been lucky with people in front of me. The only annoying habit I get on board flights are those kids who sit behind you and kick all the way through the flight. Secretly, I dream about ripping their legs off but that is evil. :) How about those families who insist on flying with their babies and they cry all the way through the flight? :eek: When I see babies at the gate I usually say "Oh no, lets hope they don't sit anywhere near me". I'm sure most of us do - although I have seen some amazingly happy and quiet babies on flights too!

 

I believe the seats should definitely be up during meal service. I think everyone should have the ability (not necessarily a right - reclining seats are not in any country's constitution) to do as they wish with their seats for comfort sake. Yet, we should all be mindful of our surroundings. Unfortunately, better said than done.

 

I think we'd find ourselves surprised that most situations can be worked out between all parties if someone just gets an understanding that the other passenger (works both ways) has a real reason for the seat to be up or down.

 

Unfortunately, even using common sense you are still occassionally bound to find the one passenger who refuses to compromise since he/she is still a child mentally.

 

Its easy to say "move up to business or first class" but not everyone can afford to do that. If they could the business class cabin would be much larger than just a few handful of seats. So the tight arrangements of seats is an issue for the average flyer. Airlines aren't about to change their seat configuration so we have to learn to live with it. Expecting the world to bend to your views isn't going to solve the matter.

 

Not sure where I am going with this :). Just disturbed by some of the me/me/me comments. There's probably no right or wrong answer as each situation is different. Personally I don't have a problem with someone reclining a bit in front of me but I don't want their head in my lap either. If you want that person to go back up just reach over and give him/her a big fat kiss. That'll keep them quiet an upright as fast as you can say "move it." :D

 

And no, I never did that last thing! LOL!

[ducklite]

Are you really saying you would try to injure someone's knees just so you could recline? Where do you think a taller person's knees are going to go in order to give you enough room?

 

Much as I'd like to be as comfortable as possible, it is not something I'd insist on at the expense of another passenger, whether that expense be an injury or merely pain.

 

I guess the American sense of entitlement is alive and well :(

 

I'm saying that many could and would do so.

 

A taller person needs to buy a seat where their height can be accommodated. Either an aisle, a bulkhead, an exit row, or an upgraded class. It's called personal responsibility.

 

During many flights I don't recline at all. But for a very early, very late, long haul, or redeye, I'm going to sleep, and I'm not going to do so fully upright. I don't put my seat back during meals, and if the person behind me has their laptop out, I give a warning. I also try to recline slowly so a person can shift in their seat if they need to.

 

My point is that the people who say "I'm not going to let them recline!" Well, frankly they don't really have a choice, and the FA will ALWAYS side with the person who wishes to recline their seat.

[Deckhandoug]

I'm saying that many could and would do so.

 

A taller person needs to buy a seat where their height can be accommodated. Either an aisle, a bulkhead, an exit row, or an upgraded class. It's called personal responsibility.

 

During many flights I don't recline at all. But for a very early, very late, long haul, or redeye, I'm going to sleep, and I'm not going to do so fully upright. I don't put my seat back during meals, and if the person behind me has their laptop out, I give a warning. I also try to recline slowly so a person can shift in their seat if they need to.

 

My point is that the people who say "I'm not going to let them recline!" Well, frankly they don't really have a choice, and the FA will ALWAYS side with the person who wishes to recline their seat.

 

Agreed, I let my seat back slowly and enjoy it's ability to recline.

 

Their not wanting me to recline because they think it makes them uncomfortable does not override my wanting to recline because NOT doing so make me uncomfortable.

 

If they don't want to recline their seats, fine.

 

I enjoy reclining mine, and will do so, and will address any attempts to stop me.

 

People whose physical size, be it weight or height need to purchase the appropriate seat that makes them and their seatmates comfortable.

 

The seats are designed for the average person, if you are not average, you need to adjust.

 

Just like not everyone will fit in a helicopter flight to a Glacier, not everyone will fit in a standard airplane cabin.

 

Weather you can afford to upgrade or not is personal to your situation, train or bus travel may be an option for you too.

[Globaliser]

I think the answer is just common sense.

It should be common sense and courtesy.

 

But ultimately, if push comes to shove, the recliners are in the right. That's what the airline and its staff will say. And that's really the end of the story.

[Toto2Kansas]

It should be common sense and courtesy.

 

But ultimately, if push comes to shove, the recliners are in the right. That's what the airline and its staff will say. And that's really the end of the story.

I totally agree. Those that recline have the right to do so, one reason why we didn't kick up a fuss when the man in front of DH was reclined for the entire flight, he had that right to recline his seat if he so wished!

[DanJ]

It should be common sense and courtesy.

 

But ultimately, if push comes to shove, the recliners are in the right. That's what the airline and its staff will say. And that's really the end of the story.

 

I respect the majority of your opinions and knowledge but it's not so cut and dried. It's not the end of the story if someone assaults another as ducklite is advocating above. One thing everyone agrees on here is we all buy our space. You didn't buy your 32 inches plus 6 inches of mine. Me reclining in response to you reclining doesn't gain me back the space where my legs are. Your right to recline ends where another person's body begins. Just like the old saying that your right to swing your arm through the air ends where my face begins.

 

If someone wishes to slam their seat into my kneecaps until they magically get smaller (I would think they would get bigger actually, but I'm no doctor), and tries to defend themselves with "well, obviously I can recline all I want or they wouldn't put a recline button there", would have the same chance of defending themselves as someone getting a speeding ticket saying "well, obviously officer, if the car goes that fast, I'm allowed to drive it that fast, duh." Not gonna happen.

[ducklite]

I respect the majority of your opinions and knowledge but it's not so cut and dried. It's not the end of the story if someone assaults another as ducklite is advocating above. One thing everyone agrees on here is we all buy our space. You didn't buy your 32 inches plus 6 inches of mine. Me reclining in response to you reclining doesn't gain me back the space where my legs are. Your right to recline ends where another person's body begins. Just like the old saying that your right to swing your arm through the air ends where my face begins.

 

Excuse me, but I never "advocated" any such thing. I simply pointed out that it could and does happen. I'd also like to know how you got "assault" out of reclining ones seat? Sounds a bit far fetched at best. You buy the space that your seat will give you, including the recline. If the airlines didn't want to allow reclining, the seats wouldn't recline. Sounds to me like you need to take it up with the carrier, not the person in front of you.

 

If you don't want to deal with it, take some personal responsibility and book the exit row so the seat in front of you won't recline. It's not rocket science.

 

If someone wishes to slam their seat into my kneecaps until they magically get smaller (I would think they would get bigger actually, but I'm no doctor), and tries to defend themselves with "well, obviously I can recline all I want or they wouldn't put a recline button there", would have the same chance of defending themselves as someone getting a speeding ticket saying "well, obviously officer, if the car goes that fast, I'm allowed to drive it that fast, duh." Not gonna happen.

 

Actually people do slam their seats back into other peoples knees regularly. Human nature is such that if you press the recline button and try to recline and the seat doesn't move, that you'll give it a bit of a "body slam" once or twice thinking that perhaps it's stuck.

[overthesea]

 

Unfortunately, even using common sense you are still occassionally bound to find the one passenger who refuses to compromise since he/she is still a child mentally.

 

Well said and in every arena of life.

[Globaliser]

One thing everyone agrees on here is we all buy our space. You didn't buy your 32 inches plus 6 inches of mine. Me reclining in response to you reclining doesn't gain me back the space where my legs are.

If your legs/knees are where the forward seat back is when it is reclined, they are in space that you didn't buy. If you actually need space that you can't get in that row, then you need to buy a seat with more space - just as a bigger person needs to buy bigger clothes (that are sometimes more expensive).

 

That's technical and harsh. But that's ultimately the way it is if push comes to shove. Consideration and courtesy should get around all these problems - but if you want to argue about where the bottom line is, that's where it is and that's the bottom line which the airline will adopt too.

[DanJ]

If your legs/knees are where the forward seat back is when it is reclined, they are in space that you didn't buy.

 

Not to be argumentative, but seat pitch, as you know, is defined as the point in one seat to the same point in the seat in front or behind. When someone reclines their seat, they are taking part of the seat pitch from behind, and that person can't gain that space back by reclining their own seat since the bottom of your own seat doesn't move back to bring your legs back.

[Deckhandoug]

I respect the majority of your opinions and knowledge but it's not so cut and dried. It's not the end of the story if someone assaults another as ducklite is advocating above. One thing everyone agrees on here is we all buy our space. You didn't buy your 32 inches plus 6 inches of mine. Me reclining in response to you reclining doesn't gain me back the space where my legs are. Your right to recline ends where another person's body begins. Just like the old saying that your right to swing your arm through the air ends where my face begins.

 

If someone wishes to slam their seat into my kneecaps until they magically get smaller (I would think they would get bigger actually, but I'm no doctor), and tries to defend themselves with "well, obviously I can recline all I want or they wouldn't put a recline button there", would have the same chance of defending themselves as someone getting a speeding ticket saying "well, obviously officer, if the car goes that fast, I'm allowed to drive it that fast, duh." Not gonna happen.

 

LOL !

 

Wrong

 

The airlines side with the passenger wanting to recline, there are NO notices against reclining during the flight, just during take offs and landings.

 

Speed limits are posted, violating them results in getting a ticket.

 

There are no tickets issued for reclining your seat, as it is allowed.

 

We have all purchased our seat, most with ability to recline. Your attempting to block the seat is harassment of your fellow passengers and may result in damage to your knees.

 

Here's something from Delta actually promoting the seats ability to recline:

 

"A whole new world of travel comfort takes off in summer 2011 with the introduction of Economy Comfort seating on our long-haul international flights. Early boarding gives you extra time to find your seat and get situated. Stretch out with up to four inches additional legroom. Recline 50% further than standard Economy Class seating. Then enjoy complimentary beer, wine, and spirits along the way. Try it and see how the idea of "affordable comfort" is no longer a stretch."

 

So, as we all can see, the Airlines encourage you to recline and actually use it as a selling point.

[vjmatty]

My point is that the people who say "I'm not going to let them recline!" Well, frankly they don't really have a choice

 

This isn't about choices, or taking a position of not "letting" the chair recline. It is the simple physics that two objects can not occupy the same space at the same time... and since the legs are attached to someone's body they aren't going anywhere.

 

the FA will ALWAYS side with the person who wishes to recline their seat.

 

And do what, tell the other passenger to please put their legs in the overhead bin? :)

 

The common sense I thought others were referring to was that if you start to recline your seat, feel resistance and hear "ouch", the courteous thing to do is stop the seat.

 

I'd think that any comfort I'd get from those extra degrees of recline would be lost with the knowledge I was causing someone pain. :(

[Deckhandoug]

United Airlines:

 

Prohibited cabin items

The use of devices that prevent customers from reclining their aircraft seats is prohibited. Engineering test show that these devices can hinder passengers from exiting their seats in an emergency, and can cause damage to tray tables.

[ducklite]

This isn't about choices, or taking a position of not "letting" the chair recline. It is the simple physics that two objects can not occupy the same space at the same time... and since the legs are attached to someone's body they aren't going anywhere.

 

They can maneuver in their seat to sit with their legs at an angle if need be. Like I said, a person needs to take responsibility for themselves and book a seat where either the seat in front of them doesn't recline or booking an aisle or bulkhead seat to give themselves more leg room. Their poor planning is no ones fault but their own.

 

And do what, tell the other passenger to please put their legs in the overhead bin? :)

 

It's no different than not accepting that an obese person has the right to leave the armrest up and spill into your seat, and it will be uncomfortable for them to have the armrest down. Do you think that's acceptable?

 

The FA will tell the passenger in so many words to "suck it up, buttercup" because the seats recline and the person in that seat has the right to recline it, and there's not anything they can do about it. And if that passenger gets in the FA's face about it, they will likely find themselves arrested.

 

The common sense I thought others were referring to was that if you start to recline your seat, feel resistance and hear "ouch", the courteous thing to do is stop the seat.

 

I'd think that any comfort I'd get from those extra degrees of recline would be lost with the knowledge I was causing someone pain. :(

 

At that point I'd lean back and tell the person behind me that I was going to recline in order to sleep and would give them a moment or to to situate themselves so I could put the seat back. Problem solved. (And I've never put the seat back so fast as to have anyone say "ouch.")

[jm1029]

Interesting thread as usual. it says a lot about personalities. What no one has mentioned and what I have seen is the situation where a seat is inclined all the way back and the person behind has to use the restroom. It is impossible to get up and out of the row without interfering with the recliner, especially if in the window or aisle seat. I saw one situation where someone seemed to have a problem and had to use the restroom often.

[ducklite]

Interesting thread as usual. it says a lot about personalities. What no one has mentioned and what I have seen is the situation where a seat is inclined all the way back and the person behind has to use the restroom. It is impossible to get up and out of the row without interfering with the recliner, especially if in the window or aisle seat. I saw one situation where someone seemed to have a problem and had to use the restroom often.

 

That's ridiculous. I can get up out of my seat and scootch past a reclined seat in front of me without touching that reclined seat at all.

 

If you're implying that someone would get up and down numerous times just to be an ass, well, that says a lot about them. You never know if the person trying to sleep is maybe coming home from an extended trip for a family emergency and has to go directly from the airport to work. It's absolutely rude--not to mention childish--to purposely disturb other passengers just because you can't get your way.

 

And frankly if you are ill and need the restroom more than a couple of times on a flight, you shouldn't be flying and contaminating the whole plane!

[theduffys]

And frankly if you are ill and need the restroom more than a couple of times on a flight, you shouldn't be flying and contaminating the whole plane!

Sorry to upset your rightiousness but, a bladder infection, which causes a great need to void frequently, is not going to infect anyone.

[scottbee]

Not to be argumentative, but seat pitch, as you know, is defined as the point in one seat to the same point in the seat in front or behind. When someone reclines their seat, they are taking part of the seat pitch from behind, and that person can't gain that space back by reclining their own seat since the bottom of your own seat doesn't move back to bring your legs back.

 

Seat pitch is defined at the distance between the seat attachment points on the floor.

 

Also, you still have your 32" from the reclined back of the seat in front of you to the reclined back of your own seat. Just because the person in front of you reclined it doesn't mean you can't recline, or do you want the 32" plus your recline, while denying the person in front?

[ducklite]

Sorry to upset your rightiousness but, a bladder infection, which causes a great need to void frequently, is not going to infect anyone.

 

You've got a point there. However it seems that if someone had that type of a problem that they might ask the gate agent for help in getting assigned to an aisle seat. I know there's never a guarantee, but almost always there are a few of them blocked for the gate agent to assign to passengers who might need one for any number of reasons.

[vjmatty]

Like I said, a person needs to take responsibility for themselves and book a seat where either the seat in front of them doesn't recline or booking an aisle or bulkhead seat to give themselves more leg room. Their poor planning is no ones fault but their own.

 

The same can be said for the person who wants to sleep.... get a window seat where you can lean against the wall, or buy a business class seat where you can lay flat.

 

It's no different than not accepting that an obese person has the right to leave the armrest up and spill into your seat, and it will be uncomfortable for them to have the armrest down. Do you think that's acceptable?

 

Since this actually happened to me... even with the armrest in the proper place the obese person next to me spilled over into my seat.... that is exactly what I had to do. I was not going to demand that someone perform an immediate tummy tuck on this man so that I'd have my full seat. There was nothing that could be done, any more than the person behind you can magically make his legs shorter.

 

The FA will tell the passenger in so many words to "suck it up, buttercup" because the seats recline and the person in that seat has the right to recline it, and there's not anything they can do about it. And if that passenger gets in the FA's face about it, they will likely find themselves arrested.

 

Suck what up, he isn't the one complaining.....since the person trying to recline would be the one making a fuss, and the person with long legs would just be sitting there minding his own business, the recliner would be causing the scene.

 

6' is not freakishly tall, and if the airlines are going to cheap out by not giving half the population enough leg room then perhaps reclining will need to be a thing of the past. There are not enough bulkhead and exit seats to accommodate everyone. Honestly I can't believe the right to recline can be placed above the right to have the long legs you were born with in an airplane seat that you paid for just like anyone else.

[vjmatty]

That's ridiculous. I can get up out of my seat and scootch past a reclined seat in front of me without touching that reclined seat at all.

 

If you're implying that someone would get up and down numerous times just to be an ass, well, that says a lot about them. You never know if the person trying to sleep is maybe coming home from an extended trip for a family emergency and has to go directly from the airport to work. It's absolutely rude--not to mention childish--to purposely disturb other passengers just because you can't get your way.

 

And frankly if you are ill and need the restroom more than a couple of times on a flight, you shouldn't be flying and contaminating the whole plane!

 

Interesting logic.... only those who like to sleep are entitled to fly. Not those who are tall, not those who are sick or pregnant or otherwise have to use the bathroom frequently. You live in an interesting world.

[ducklite]

The same can be said for the person who wants to sleep.... get a window seat where you can lean against the wall, or buy a business class seat where you can lay flat.

 

Or buy a regular seat and recline the seat that was made to recline.

 

Since this actually happened to me... even with the armrest in the proper place the obese person next to me spilled over into my seat.... that is exactly what I had to do. I was not going to demand that someone perform an immediate tummy tuck on this man so that I'd have my full seat. There was nothing that could be done, any more than the person behind you can magically make his legs shorter.

 

Actually you do not need to accept it. I don't. I've twice asked a FA to intervene when someone was spilling into my seat to the point that I couldn't get my seat belt out from under them. They did, I was moved to a better seat one time, the other time the person was moved to two empty seats in the back of the plane. I paid for the use of a seat, not a fraction of one.

 

Suck what up, he isn't the one complaining.....since the person trying to recline would be the one making a fuss, and the person with long legs would just be sitting there minding his own business, the recliner would be causing the scene.

 

The recliner is doing what they are allowed by the airline to do.

 

6' is not freakishly tall, and if the airlines are going to cheap out by not giving half the population enough leg room then perhaps reclining will need to be a thing of the past. There are not enough bulkhead and exit seats to accommodate everyone. Honestly I can't believe the right to recline can be placed above the right to have the long legs you were born with in an airplane seat that you paid for just like anyone else.

 

There are 40-60 (or more) aisle seats on any given plane, plus generally a dozen or more exit row seats and six or more bulkhead seats. Are you telling me that there will be more very tall individuals on any given flight than can be accommodated in all of those seats?

 

By the way, the average male in the United States is 5'9".