SD I March 20-27 review

[Jim Avery]

There is a thread running concerning children and large groups aboard which is generating considerable interest in these posts so let me start with those issues.

Children. I love them, raised my own, dont think other peoples children are special and really resent being in a confined space and as such being required to participate in raising other peoples children. On SD I this past week there were 30 children (according to one crew member) ranging from small infants to approximately 16 years. Let there be no misunderstanding, children have no place on a SeaDream ship. There are no childrens facilities. None. It says so in the brochure. This is a small very high quality ship and is totally wasted on small children. Also, the teens were apparently very bored most of the time. I advise all reading these posts who wish to travel with children to book a nice suite on RCL or Princess. They have teen rooms. They have staffed nurserys. They have organized kids events. They have rock climbing walls, etc. To bring kids on these beautiful small ships does your kids no good and is an affront to the other passengers. My personal favorite this week was the entry into St. Barths. On a beautiful Caribbean evening, steaming into one of the most beautiful islands in the Caribbean, Lois & I decided to watch the approach from The Top of the Yacht with Christophe. Could not believe it. Every, repeat every, bar stool and most of the chairs were filled with children. The bar staff was tied up completely making drinks for them. Made my day. Next best was during Activities Director James Cabello's welcome in the main lounge when numerous little preciouses were dancing and screeching about. James did a magnificent job getting through that but then he bent over backwards to accomodate all passengers but when called on to do kids events, he is naturally not available for the rest of us. An example: Ice cream social on the pool deck one afternoon for the kids. I think you all know where this left the adults as far as pool use. People who bring kids to inappropriate events are not doing them any good. Remember when you were young and Mom & Dad went out of town and you got to stay with Grandma or friends? You got to do things you didnt normally do and possibly grew a little each time. Also, Mom & Dad got time to grow together again. Passengers with kids cheated themselves out of the best of the SeaDream experience, interaction with other interesting passengers on an adult level.

What to do? I would like to see a minimum age of 18 established for passage on SeaDream. You have to be 18 to use the water toys so why not 18 to use the whole ship? If not that, then limit kids under 18 to certain sailings and BE SURE TO NOTIFY all other passengers so they can make informed decisions. People have mentioned dont book Spring Break or Christmas. That should not be an issue. SeaDream postures themselves as the best of the best. I would not expect children in the Casino at Monte Carlo regardless of the date. That's what Vegas is for.

Dont get the idea that the trip was all bad. In fact we booked Rome to Piraeus Sept 2, 2006 while aboard. Prior to that trip I will do due diligence concerning the passenger makeup. If there are kids we will cancel. If information on passenger makeup is not provided, we will cancel. OK, enough said.

SeaDream I (or The Flagship) as James Cabello reminded me often, is just as well maintained as SD II which we were on in Mexico. (That review posted on this site) We were greeted aboard by Christophe who we met on our Mex. trip. It was like coming home to family. Christophe is expert at making drinks the color of ladies bathing suits so all matches. Sadly he is retiring from sea duty in June. We will miss him. Forgot embarcation. Took maybe 2 minutes under a tent pierside at Havensight Cruise terminal. Very easy. On boarding we loved getting our wet, scented towels and champagne. Also, it is very nice to have food available as they do all the time. On a large ship it can be hours before food is available on sailaway day. Food at all times was the best. The preparation and service cannot be praised enough. I gained the requisite 8 pounds while aboard so I must have liked it all.

Spa service. The only other issue we had on board. In December the spa on SDII was run by a Philipino company I think. The massages and other spa services at that time were the best we had had on any ship. This time on SD I spa services are being offered by a Thai company. We booked our massages when we arrived on board for 4 PM to be done at the same time. We arrived as booked and were instructed to change into Thai Pajamas. Ok. then the lady proceeds to walk us back down the passageway toward the deck. Lois asked "where are we going?" The lady indicated that the spa was full and we were going to deck 6 to have our massage outside. No Way. We cancelled. They could not tell us when we could have a massage in the spa facility instead of on deck with the kids. This happened to others as well. Never been overbooked at a spa before. Sounds Carnivalish to me.

Shore excursions. Ours were limited as one of the ones we wanted was consumed evidently before we arrived by a large party. We did Saba Sights which was 13 people in a van for a ride around the island. Interesting place but would not do Saba again. The other was The Baths on VirginGorda. Glad we did this but it is very crowded with ship passengers from all over. Would not do it again due to the crowds but the beach is great. Got the T shirt. Other islands were self toured and we particularly liked St. Barths. Could have skipped Nevis & Saba and stayed extra days at St. Barths and Virgin Gorda.

Beach Party was a great time. This signature event is the Grand Finale of the cruise. Activities Director James and the entire food and service staff did a great job and also appeared to be having fun. This is another one of the major differences between SeaDream and the larger lines. The crew has fun. They get to see some of the places they visit. As a former seafarer I can tell you that it is frustrating to go to places you have heard of and not get to participate. This is not to say that the crew is intrusive in any way. They are genuinely friendly and professional and try to do anything possible to make your voyage better.

Stateroom. As usual, spotless and well maintained. Jeanette, our Stewardess, was charming and did her job flawlessly. Cant do better than that.

Disembarcation. The usual St. Thomas mess. Not SeaDreams fault. Every time I have arrived in St. Thomas it is the same. Be in line at 6:15 am for inspection. They showed up about 7:00. That is much better than the last time. Seems to be a game. Keep the tourists waiting. After getting through our governments BS it took approx. 1 minute to retrieve passports from the SD staff and say good bye. Hated to leave, the crew makes us feel at home. If this child friendly problem can be overcome we have found a home. If not, there must be somewhere out there adults can spend money.

All the best and Happy Sailing to you all.

Jim Avery

[ctbjr1309]

Jim,

 

When you refer to Christophe, I assume that you are not referring to Christophe Cornu, the longtime SD 2 maitre 'd who is currently on SD 2 in Mexico. You may want to clarify so that those reading your review who know Christophe don't have heart failure caused by the thought that he is retiring.

 

Otherwise, thanks for the great review. I have been on SD many times and share your reaction to the children issue. Fortunately, I have to date been spared the experience that you had.

[Jim Avery]

Sorry, we of course mean Christophe the Younger. The handsome young Frenchman at The Top of the Yacht, not Christophe Cornu. As best I can tell, Christophe must mean "very good at what you do" in French.

Jim.

[ctbjr1309]

Thanks for the clarification. I like your translation of Christophe. It certainly applies to Christophe Cornu. We don't know "Christophe the Younger" but perhaps will make his acquaintance in July.

[its_my_dime]

Great review regarding the children!! Well written. We had a similar experience last Christmas (but it didn't seem to be as bad as yours).

 

However, given that management has been aware for a year and perhaps much longer than that about how inappropriate children are on their ships, do you really think that your post or feelings will make the SLIGHTEST difference to them?

 

I suspect that if you show up for the same cruise next year, you could have the same number of kids. Or more. Ditto Christmas week. This is about filling beds, not how badly the children behaved. As I indicated in a previous post, if you don't like it, consider yourself to be history as far as Seadream management is concerned. 30 kids plus parents have more votes than you and I do. Too bad. Nice ship. But money talks.

[szamot kyczdaj]

Thanks for the clarification. I like your translation of Christophe. It certainly applies to Christophe Cornu. We don't know "Christophe the Younger" but perhaps will make his acquaintance in July.

hello ch.b.

christophe is a very fine Young man from France,he used work on Sd1 in the pool bar about 2 years ago,he came back for the last contract and I am affraid that you will not meet him in July.He is a great bartender.

[ctbjr1309]

Too bad that we'll miss Christophe in July. Nevertheless, I expect that one or more of our old favorites (Lars, Don, Ben, Eric, Christian, etc.) will be onboard then.

[vandrefalk]

Jim, thanks for your review. Not sure what the solution is -- can they legally prohibit those under 18 from sailing? Our SDI cruise was over Thanksgiving (and we loved Christophe the Younger -- so sorry to hear he is leaving), and there were two kids on board -- early teens. However, they were well-behaved and seemed to enjoy the shore excursions and water sports. I've heard stories from other ships about wild kids -- and the seeming inability of the crew to do much about it. I would think SD would emphasize to travel agents that their ships really are inappropriate for children -- but I'm not sure they can stop them from booking. Our next cruise is Jan 06 on SD2 -- after New Year's, so hopefully we won't have rug rats.

[madbob]

We just got off Sea Dreams 1. in STT the day your children’s cruise left. Our ship was almost half charted by a group of bankers from Milwaukee. The crew was talking about the anticipated 30 kids and what that trip would be like. We were also told the owner and his family would be on board that sailing. Hope you met him and shared your concerns directly with him. Was told he always sails for two weeks in March, two weeks at Christmas and two weeks in the summer.

 

I am glad we had 38 bankers and not 30 kids.

[randyat1001]

Jim, you stated you were a former seafarer and as a former one myself was curious in what capacity you sailed. I sailed for 13 years in my younger days. I sailed in all departments ending as a QMED in the Engine department.

Randy

[mason525]

Jim Avery-

My Family enjoyed a SDI Med cruise last summer. My sons were aged 18,15, & 12.They were definitely not bored, poorly behaved, or under dressed. Before booking, I discussed at length whether SD wanted non-adult passengers. I was assured they did.

Given that your cruise was during a peak spring break week, why didn't you seek out an adults only cruise?

[Jim Avery]

Given SeaDream's marketing, I thought i had.

[frequent traveler]

I have to add to Jim's comments about the spa services. I was disappointed by the new company (plus disconcerted to have teenage boys wandering in and out of the reception area).

 

Having sailed on Sea Dream I last year on an all adults booking (thank goodness) I was eagerly anticipating the aloe-cucumber wrap and booked three different massages and wraps. However, be aware -- the new brochure does not fully explain all of the services and the therapists (wonderful as they are) do not speak English well enough to explain. The aloe-cucumber wrap is no more -- replaced with a pure aloe wrap -- if you don't like being frozen -- don't experience. The honey wrap is heated (not disclosed in the brochure nor explained in advance by the therapist) so much that you may feel like a baked potato before you are done. The aroma therapy massage is not very deep - so ask for Swedish if you want more pressure - and you aren't given any choice of aromatic oils.

 

I also have to agree with Jim's comments about seeing our family again -- in addition to the folks he highlighted, Lukas, Kris, and others from our trip last year were very welcoming. Our cabin stewardess, Freudelyn was excellent, and oh - the bottomless glass of champagne was wonderful.

 

Unfortunately, the impact of children on this cruise outweighs the other wonderful aspects of Sea Dream I. We too will not book and/or travel on the Sea Dream again if children are on board (even our own kids will have to be at least 18 before we will bring them).

[Jim Avery]

To Randyat1001:

Hello to a former seafarer. I, like most American merchant seamen have worked the "oil patch" both in the US and overseas. I started though as an Ordinary Seaman on tank ships. Worked up eventually to Master. Still hold the license but do not sail. Notable jobs were master of a coastwise tank ship based out of the New York harbor area and Master of a freighter out of Seattle running up to Alaska and the Bering Sea. Looks good on a resume but that was hard work. Alaska and the Bering Sea can be spectacular though. Now I am happy to let the good Captains of SeaDream drive for me.

All the Best.

Jim.

[DisneyJen]

Greetings all and long time no see to some of you:D

 

I was interested to read this thread as we traveled on SD 1 Dec. 5 last year. Children onboard came as a surprise to my DH and I on that voyage.

 

We had a baby celebrating his/her first birthday in the cabin next to us and a toddler across the hall from us. While we didn't see or hear the toddler, the one-year-old did make for some uncomfortable moments for DH and I (trying to nap in the afternoons and a couple of meals).

 

When we were unpacking the first day we could hear the baby crying. We immediately went to the front desk and asked about being moved. We were shown a cabin that could be converted into one of the double staterooms and the bed, which was lower to the floor, and the common door made it unattractive to us. It was only two doors away from our cabin as well.

 

I talked to the captain about children onboard at lunch one afternoon and he was gracious.

 

I suspect the parents were led to believe that bringing the children along wouldn't be an issue. I also think that the parents were led to believe that there would be onboard child care (I heard this from another passenger).

 

We are the parents of a 12 year old who has traveled extensively with us. We left her at home since we thought this was an adults only cruise. And given the type of ship and cruise we will leave her home again when we hopefully sail SD2 in November 2005.

[Jim Avery]

Hi Disneyjen:

Your post is one of many that seem to be surfacing telling tales of kids on board SeaDream. We have booked our next for in the med but after hearing more and more that kids on board is the norm, we are considering cancelling,barring some sort of determination by SeaDream to limit kids on board. When you make the decision to spend this amount of money for a week long holiday, there are lots of options out there. You have read my posts but I will give my opinion once more, people who bring children on these ships are insensitive, ignorant and selfish. Either that or they are too insecure to leave their kids. The only people on board who think little precious is cute are the parents and the kids. The crew absolutely does not like kids aboard based on conversations we had but they are much too professional to let it show. They just get on with the extra work load created by the children, which of course means they have less time for the rest of us. I guess we just got lucky last December in Mexico. No kids and the best cruise experience ever. Not so lucky this time.

[DisneyJen]

I know that some cruise lines, e.g. Celebrity, tried some designated "Adult Only" cruises last year so there is a precedent. We haven't sailed on Crystal or Seabourne so I am not sure of their policies.

 

It was interesting that when we talked with captain that he said that children do not belong on this type of ship but he then said his hands were tied. I understand that business is business BUT if Sea Dream is going to market themselves as they have as a romantic, luxury and adult cruise line then they need to deliver (and believe me I said as much on my comment card). If they are going for the family market they need to say that as well.

 

When we want a "family" cruise with our daughter, and usual my parents, we sail on Royal Caribbean or Disney as they are geared toward a family experience.

 

Hopefully someone at SD is reading comment cards and perhaps monitoring the boards so they can get a sense of how folks are feeling about the issue.

[vandrefalk]

I contacted SeaDream to suggest they review the comments from these threads about kids on board. I got an immediate reply, which stated that Mr. Avery's cruise was the most unusual since the line started and that they were very much aware of the discussions on this board. They went on to say We make it very clear in our sales presentations to travel agents that the SeaDream product is not a good choice for families with young children. We indicate very clearly we have no "kiddie programs" or baby sitting on the yachts. As a result we get very few children younger than teen agers. Families with young children select cruise lines with more children and programs geared for them. SeaDream does work for families with teenage children and I expect on your prior voyages with us you may have noticed a few. Again they are usually more during the time when school is out and in most cases there are very few.

I don't think they can legally refuse to book kids -- and it appears they do try to emphasize that the experience is not designed for youngsters. But there's not much you can do about insensitive people who insist on bringing their kids to events, functions, cruises, or whatever else they want when it is clearly inappropriate. I doubt SeaDream has any intention of becoming a "family line" - maybe they should add a line to the contract that says badly behaved children (or their parents) will be keel-hauled? ;)

At any rate, we're looking forward to our Jan 06 cruise out of Barbados!

Vandrefalk

[Jim Avery]

Vandrefalk:

Certainly hope your cruise has less kiddies. They certainly can limit ages as does Oceania cruises, Club Med, and Windjammer Cruises. There may be others but I want to be sure and be one of the "55 priveleged couples" on our next SeaDream or it will be the last if we are on Disney Jr. again. I strongly feel that I am in their target demographic. 50's, well travelled, professional that travels with my Wife, not our kids on these ships. If they lose sight of their target audience, I fear they will not survive. They are not a good "family cruiser" ship no matter what anyone thinks. And if SeaDream is heavily discounting for kiddie fares they are truly lost. Do you have any idea what they charge kids? Bet its not what "55 privileged couples" pay.

Anyway, look forward to your review after the sailing.

All the best.

Jim.

[its_my_dime]

I contacted SeaDream to suggest they review the comments from these threads about kids on board. I got an immediate reply, which stated that Mr. Avery's cruise was the most unusual since the line started ...

 

Sorry, but I think you got the "bedbug" letter. There were more than 2 dozen children on the SD II a year ago Christmas. The owner was on board; many people complained to him at that time. This issue is nothing new to SD management.

[wulicny]

... when we hopefully sail SD2 in November 2005.

 

DisneyJen,

 

WHen in November do you sail? We are on the November 13 sailing (STT-STT), and we have our fingers crossed regarding the "child issue", too.

 

Bill

[DisneyJen]

Bill, We are sailing out of West Palm to STT on Nov. 6.

 

 

We did the STT to STT on SD1 Dec. 5, 2004.

 

We really missed having "sea days" on our first trip so we are looking forward to the two sea days on this itinerary. I am hopeful that we won't face the same issues on this cruise as we did on the last one in terms of very young children.

 

Jim, while DH and I are in our early 40s, we are the same demographic as you and your wife. Not sure what the fare is for kiddies.

[lildan]

Hi

 

In the Uk we have a travel company called Thomson who provide holidays for "couples only"..... their brochure says "Thomson Gold holidays have been designed with just the two of you in mind....no families, no noise, the holiday is designed around what couples have asked for". We've used them several times and yes there were no children.

 

Therefore it would seem that SD should legally be able to limit the ages of it's guests....if it wants to....!!

 

I'm not suggesting that SD limits it's guests to couples only but it could say no children under say 16.... or 14... personally I would prefer the former as I definitely prefer child free zones....

 

Perhaps SD should ask it's guests what they would prefer....a good piece of customer service and our feedback could help them set guidelines before they lose the very customers they propose to want...

 

Anyway I am really looking forward to my 2 week cruise in the Med (SD1) in June and God help anyone who spoils it for me ....although SD have said there are only 2 teenagers booked for these weeks if any screaming kids do suddenly materialise they will definitely be going overboard!!

 

Hope to see some of you on board (?) ....keep in touch

 

Helen

[frequent traveler]

While I'm not a maritine law expert, regarding the legality of setting age limits -- yes, the Sea Dream can designate as all adults or adults only or only over age of [16] [18] [pick one} -- there are no legal prohibitions [youth is not a protected class, as opposed to barring someone from traveling due to race, sex, national origin, etc].

 

to me, they are being shortsighted in allowing children on cruise - is the repeat business driven away worth filing a couple of more cabins? Unless we can travel on an assured adults only - we won't be returning absent another charter opportunity.

[Jim Avery]

Hi FT:

I find it interesting that there is total silence from SD. I know they read these posts regularly and they posted my Dec SD II review on their website after calling for permission to use it. It is still there. They have not called to ask to reprint this review. Wonder why? From the sounds of the recent posts, we are not the only two couples that intend to look elsewhere if kids are on board. Have posted on Silversea board and gotten favorable responses about life on board without other peoples children. Rates are comparable. Anyway, keep in touch and have a great Summer.

Jim.