The New Tipping Rate ...it appears Carnival has there own tipping concept

[sparks1093]

If this is the rate they accepted when they signed their contract, that is what they should expect. If they bought the BS about tips, well that is their problem.

 

When in Rome do as the Romans do. I am not going to say that tipping is the best system or that it is the end all and be all. But this is the way that CCL (and the other mainstream cruiselines) have decided to do business. If you don't like the way they do business then you should do business with someone else.

 

 

NO he stated and I quote "...but to give nothing is not right." By this stateement, he is making a JUDGEMENT against me. I take offense at that. We can agree to disagree, but I will not be Judged.

 

There is a difference between judging a person and judging a person's behavior. Take all the offense you want, your behavior is being judged because you are taking your displeasure with CCL's tipping model out on the employees who are stuck in the middle. Withholding a tip because something "extra" wasn't done is arbitrary and capricous (unless of course you tell your steward and waitstaff exactly what you expect in order for them to receive a tip, but you would probably see that as "I shouldn't have to tell them how to do their job").

 

I have my values, others have theres. Others like to argue & tell everyone here "We have to tip or else" I just want to defend those of us who disagree with this CONTROL MENTALITY.

 

When you are in a tipping culture, yes, you should tip accordingly. When you are not in a tipping culture then you shouldn't tip. Cruising on mainstream cruise lines is a tipping culture.

 

As for your comment about fair wages the employees do receive this if people leave the tips in place. It's similar to being paid on commission (not the same, similar). A car salesperson receives nothing unless a car is sold. Similarly a waitperson receives very little as an hourly wage unless a table is waited on. Similarly a bellhop receives very little as an hourly wage unless a guest's bags are being carried. Similarly shipboard employees receive very little as salary unless passengers are their responsibility in cabins or tables assigned to them. Whether you agree with it or not is irrelevent.

[sparks1093]

This is pretty much what I expected. We have a "tipping" increase and those who truly should benefit from it aren't getting it and don't even know about it.

 

I can't tell you how many places that I've worked where the employees didn't have a full understanding of their own pay sturcture. And as this hasn't gone into effect yet it is no surprise that this person hasn't seen an increase.

 

 

Exactly! Charge me a fare rate, even if it's considerably higher, that pays your staff adequately. Then offer me the option of a flat rate tipping service, that goes to those who really should be "tipped".

 

As I mentioned in post 103 they do receive adequate compensation now as long as passengers pay the recommended tip amount. If you want to have the tipping included in the fare there are many lines that do this so you may choose to sail with them.

 

I know the appearance of low fares is a lot of what it's about in the industry - especially in this economy. When all the cruise lines do it, it's hard to be the one to step up and do what is right - principle doesn't pay the bills and I understand that. Somebody has to call them out on it before it gets worse though.

 

I'm glad to see so many people on here who understand it has nothing to do with spending a few more dollars in tips, but about getting the "tips" to the right people. Which kind of opens up the bag to addressing salary issues on board.

 

I do understand where people are coming from with the new distribution, I just think that it is wrong to take your displeasure with the company's actions out on the innocent employees who are stuck in the middle. If this change upsets you so much then I would suggest that you do something that actually affects the company. Buy one less drink of the day every day while onboard, copy your invoice and send it to corporate with a polite note saying this is what I spent but I would have spent $x more if not for your change in tipping. That would get their attention a whole lot quicker than people removing the tips.

 

See above.

[pai1762]

Tipping was originally conceived as a way to acknowledge a personal face-to-face service over and above what was to be expected.

 

 

• A waiter should be tipped for things like thorough knowledge of the menu, the city, local attractions, etc.; not for bringing me the food or keeping my glass full, that is to be expected that is there job and should be adequately compensated through their salary.
  
• A cab driver should be tipped for his knowledge of the local area and suggestions that might help me in my travels; not for taking me to the address I told him to, that is there job and should be adequately compensated for in their fare.
  
• Room service should have never required a tip. I am ordering food which before hand you know needs to be delivered to my room. It should already be in the price and that should cover someones salary to deliver it. I should not be tipping someone I see for less than 30 seconds typically - it should never have been a tipped service.
  
• The pizza delivery guy should have never required a tip. I am ordering a pizza that you know needs to be delivered, the price should include delivery in it. I should not be tipping someone I see for less than 30 seconds typically - it should never have been a tipped service.
  

Yes, I understand that tipping in these situations above have now become the norm. I just bring them up to show the slippery path we started down. It is only going to get worse.

 

Tipping is getting totally out of control. We are paying for "tipping" because businesses are trying to keep their prices from appearing higher. The airlines got in on it with baggage service and restaurants and cruises are doing it with tipping. Pulling services that should be compensated for in the base prices and expecting us to pay for the service on the backend making their prices appear lower.

 

Does the $1.50 additional a day bother me at all? NO

 

Does it bother me that people complain about it? YES, in a way.

 

Why?

Because most of the ones that are complaining about it are complaining about THE WRONG THING. You shouldn't be complaining about the extra $1.50 a day it costs you (your cruise is very reasonably priced in most cases and some of this has to do with staff who are inadequately compensated to begin with). That $1.50 a day should have already been in the cruise price, and it should probably be a lot more than that. What you should be complaining about is that now the cruise is asking you to "tip" for many services that should not require a tip.

 

 

What has now become of "Tipping" on Carnival and shouldn't be....

 

The old tipping levels were broken down as follows (per day): $5.50 to the headwaiter/waiter, $1 to the assistant waiter/cooks and $3.50 to the cabin steward.

 

 

• Other that the cooks listed above, I believe the other people listed above should be "tipped" for service over and above there job.
  

The new guidelines allocate $5.80 to dining room services, $3.70 to cabin services and $2 per day for alternative services, which include kitchen, entertainment, guest services and other hotel staff members.

 

 

• Yeah, this whole thing has gotten convoluted. We should only be "tipping" for those people who we interact face-to-face with and who give us a service which is over and above what is expected by their job which should be adequately compensated by a salary.
  

"Tipping" even as obscured as it has gotten has always been for a face-to-face service. Yes, it has gotten away from just being a compensation for over and above service, now to a supplement for an inadequate salaries. But Carnival has now taken it a step further and now requesting tips for staff we may never even see and will most likely have no personal interaction with. Yes, I believe the laundry staff does a great job and I'm always appreciative of the clean sheets and towels, that does not mean I should tip them - this is there job. They should get an adequate salary for it. The entertainer on stage who performs for his job, yes he entertains me but also should be adequately compensated in his salary for this.

 

 

 

Do I blame Carnival for this? No. At least not completely.

 

 

• I do like the idea of not having to worry about paying tips continually throughout the day on my vacation and a reasonable daily flat rate is a great idea!!! I commend you for offering this service Carnival! ...I'm not going to give you a tip for it - so don't ask!
  
• My issue is with who they are going to! At a minimum if I don't interact with you face-to-face you should not be getting a tip. You should be getting adequately compensated for it in your base salary.
  
• Until people complain about it (and in the right way, for the right reasons) this will continue to happen and will only get worse.
  

 

I am sick of the talk about tipping that talk about smoking get over it.If you do not like how Carnival run's thing's then don't go on a cruise.

[CruisinChris412]

And usually I am charged a $2.00 Delivery Charge. So why do I owe you anything more. You show up at my door, hand me my Pizza which I sometimes pay you for (Unless I used a CC over the phone) and you leave. You havent done anything extra for me.

 

I know someone said to me recently. "You need to tip them to keep them from screwing with your food". So I guess the analogy there is I must pay EXTORTION Money to keep from having something I paid for messed with.

 

Once again, You chose to accept the wage & agreed to use your own vehicle, gas etc. I didnt make that deal. I wouldnt do it. When I use my vehicle for work, I charge $0.50 per mile or I dont go. And I get it on a regular basis also.

 

How about being charged $4 for delivery? $5? $6? Then, pizza employers could still pay their employees minimum and tip wages and thus, compensate them for renting their vehicles via more mileage.

 

Better yet, how about paying $25 for the pizza? $30? $35? Then, pizza employers could pay their employees higher than minimum wage and thus, compensate them for renting their vehicles via higher wages.

 

Someone who said that about them messing with your food analogy is an idiot. It's simple economics. These people wouldn't accept these jobs without the expectations of earning tips. The market dictates these wages. If tipping pizza drivers wasn't the norm, one of 4 things would happen 1. no more delivery service, 2. higher delivery charges, 3. higher prices to cover higher labor costs or 4. company vehicles. ((On that note, nobody tips a postal worker. Why? Because they earn liveable wages, use company vehicles, etc. Not pizza delivery.))

 

In fact pizza delivery is the MOST TIP DESERVING profession in existence. Pizza drivers go through brakes and tires on an annual basis; full-time drivers easily put 30,000 miles on their car a year. They're subject to the greater risk of dangers and accidents because they're driving more. tipthepizzaguyDOTcom is worth browsing. Always tip the pizza guy at least a gallon of gas unless it's apparent THEY messed up.

[bzpilot]

As for your comment about fair wages the employees do receive this if people leave the tips in place. It's similar to being paid on commission (not the same, similar). A car salesperson receives nothing unless a car is sold. Similarly a waitperson receives very little as an hourly wage unless a table is waited on. Similarly a bellhop receives very little as an hourly wage unless a guest's bags are being carried. Similarly shipboard employees receive very little as salary unless passengers are their responsibility in cabins or tables assigned to them. Whether you agree with it or not is irrelevent.

 

All I'm trying to address here is that Carnival's "New" tipping policy is giving tips to employees who should not be getting them. Wages/Salaries by their own definition don't include tips. The employees I'm talking about in any other situation would never receive a tip, they are always strictly salaried positions.

 

One of the few conclusions you can make from this is the employees in question do not have an adequate enough salary to compensate them for their job. Carnival cannot expect their customers to start tipping random employees who in the history of the service industry have never been tipped. If they do they should expect some kind of response, and that is what I did. I expressed my opinion and welcome others to do the same - agree or disagree.

 

I just think that it is wrong to take your displeasure with the company's actions out on the innocent employees who are stuck in the middle. If this change upsets you so much then I would suggest that you do something that actually affects the company. Buy one less drink of the day every day while onboard, copy your invoice and send it to corporate with a polite note saying this is what I spent but I would have spent $x more if not for your change in tipping. That would get their attention a whole lot quicker than people removing the tips.

 

I'm not taking it out on the employees, what I'm trying to do is just the opposite. I'm trying to address the wrongs that Carnival is doing to their employees. I'm trying to address getting the strictly salaried employees their fare and decent salary. Along with making sure the tipped employees are actually getting their fare share of the tips. I personally never suggested removing tips from employees who should be getting them.

 

As for doing something that actually affects the company - I have. By posting on here I have had more Carnival employees read my opinion than would have ever happened by me sending a letter to corporate. A letter probably would have never made it past one secretary. I would assume by now even the beards have come across this post or another one similar. Not only that but I also brought together dozens of past, current and future Carnival customers who also agree in principle with my issue with the new tipping policy.

[dave76310]

Sorry, op, but the whole thesis you've laid out sounds like an overwrought mess to me. Which great cause do you want to take up? Cruise worker rights? Tipping etiquette? Consumer rights? The excesses of free enterprise?

 

It's simple. Cruise price + port fees and taxes + automated tips = the base price of your cruise. It's still a bargain, so who cares?

 

Apparently the Aussies care! They are removing autotips from the Spirit when it goes there (along with the bad coffee) because it is not "customary" for them to tip. It will be interesting to see if they somehow methologically raise cruise prices in the open market to make up the difference or if they even raise the salaries of those affected. I've always thought it is a scam...when we are tipping people we do not know are serving us, it is no longer a tip. And yes, I do pay the autotip and beyond...I just don't like the "for your convenience" bs.

[sparks1093]

All I'm trying to address here is that Carnival's "New" tipping policy is giving tips to employees who should not be getting them. Wages/Salaries by their own definition don't include tips. The employees I'm talking about in any other situation would never receive a tip, they are always strictly salaried positions.

 

One of the few conclusions you can make from this is the employees in question do not have an adequate enough salary to compensate them for their job. Carnival cannot expect their customers to start tipping random employees who in the history of the service industry have never been tipped. If they do they should expect some kind of response, and that is what I did. I expressed my opinion and welcome others to do the same - agree or disagree.

 

 

 

I'm not taking it out on the employees, what I'm trying to do is just the opposite. I'm trying to address the wrongs that Carnival is doing to their employees. I'm trying to address getting the strictly salaried employees their fare and decent salary. Along with making sure the tipped employees are actually getting their fare share of the tips. I personally never suggested removing tips from employees who should be getting them.

 

As for doing something that actually affects the company - I have. By posting on here I have had more Carnival employees read my opinion than would have ever happened by me sending a letter to corporate. A letter probably would have never made it past one secretary. I would assume by now even the beards have come across this post or another one similar. Not only that but I also brought together dozens of past, current and future Carnival customers who also agree in principle with my issue with the new tipping policy.

 

Crew members receiving a share of the alternative services portion of your tip are receiving that share not for doing their main job. They are receiving it for doing extra work outside their normal job duties and normal work hours. Every frontline crew member on the ship has their main job and at least one other side job (and I am talking personnel paid directly by CCL, not the contractors). The example that I use because it's the most obvious is the loading and distribution of luggage on embarkation day. If a sound technician or customer service rep are involved in that evolution during their "off" time they receive extra compensation from the alternative services portion. Bellhops are traditionally tipped, porters are traditionally tipped, the only difference is you don't meet them face to face.

[H82seaUgo]

See above.

 

nothing disrupts a company faster than disrupting its employees.

 

imagine starting a campaign to remove all tips by someone wanting tips to be converted to a service charge, and it builds steam and momentum. if occupy sail and sign grew big enough, someone would have to make a change. either the employees would start leaving, or carnival would do something to keep them from leaving (like incorporating auto tips about 10 years ago).

 

carnival is the bad guy here. not the carnival cruiser.

[sparks1093]

nothing disrupts a company faster than disrupting its employees.

 

imagine starting a campaign to remove all tips by someone wanting tips to be converted to a service charge, and it builds steam and momentum. if occupy sail and sign grew big enough, someone would have to make a change. either the employees would start leaving, or carnival would do something to keep them from leaving (like incorporating auto tips about 10 years ago).

 

carnival is the bad guy here. not the carnival cruiser.

 

If Carnival is "the bad guy" why continue to fund their nefarious operations by continuing to sail with them? If I really felt that way about any business I wouldn't be able to do business with them, period. Assuming that the campaign that you propose did work CCl's likely response? They would take away the ability to remove the autotips (which were instituted as I understand it because of the significant number of passengers not leaving tips).

 

And while we are waiting for this grand campaign to have an affect the innocent employee's are getting the shaft. Thanks, but I'll sit that campaign out;).

[H82seaUgo]

If Carnival is "the bad guy" why continue to fund their nefarious operations by continuing to sail with them? If I really felt that way about any business I wouldn't be able to do business with them, period. Assuming that the campaign that you propose did work CCl's likely response? They would take away the ability to remove the autotips (which were instituted as I understand it because of the significant number of passengers not leaving tips).

 

And while we are waiting for this grand campaign to have an affect the innocent employee's are getting the shaft. Thanks, but I'll sit that campaign out;).

 

you're looking at it from the wrong angle.

 

replace "sail with them" to "work for them". then complete the concept.

 

"hey, we will get you a raise, but only if we get others to pay it. and not all will pay it, so it's a crap shhot.

 

meanwhile, i just missed a news story about starbucks getting fined for a $1.50 surcharge where they didn't have full disclosure about where it went. and my dvr won't back up far enough cause i'm a hour behind.

 

google anyone?

[DFW Airwolf]

If Carnival is "the bad guy" why continue to fund their nefarious operations by continuing to sail with them? If I really felt that way about any business I wouldn't be able to do business with them, period. Assuming that the campaign that you propose did work CCl's likely response? They would take away the ability to remove the autotips (which were instituted as I understand it because of the significant number of passengers not leaving tips).

 

And while we are waiting for this grand campaign to have an affect the innocent employee's are getting the shaft. Thanks, but I'll sit that campaign out;).

 

They System is what the System is. I didnt set it up. I am just a Customer within it. They created the rules about the Tipping being optional & I take advantage of it. My Belief, Philosphy or whatever is that TIPS are for Extra Service above & beyond what is normal or expected. So if you expect me to subsidize their salary, you need to make it part of the base fare. If you allow me to decide, I will decide however I believe is deserved or not.

 

I agree that these employees may be underpaid. But as I said, I DIDNT create this system. So I have no problem with it being reformed to be fairer to them. But I will play by the rules & I will TIP what I believe is warranted.

[Gypsywych]

I am sick of the talk about tipping that talk about smoking get over it.If you do not like how Carnival run's thing's then don't go on a cruise.

 

Is that anything like: if you don't like how the government is run, don't vote?

 

Or possibly is it more like if you don't like the discussions don't read the thread?

[golfadj]

My Belief, Philosphy or whatever is that TIPS are for Extra Service above & beyond what is normal or expected.

 

 

This is where you show your true colors. Make up your own rules just to have an excuse not to tip.

[sparks1093]

you're looking at it from the wrong angle.

 

replace "sail with them" to "work for them". then complete the concept.

 

"hey, we will get you a raise, but only if we get others to pay it. and not all will pay it, so it's a crap shhot.

 

meanwhile, i just missed a news story about starbucks getting fined for a $1.50 surcharge where they didn't have full disclosure about where it went. and my dvr won't back up far enough cause i'm a hour behind.

 

google anyone?

 

No, it's the right angle. If CCL is not trustworthy and they are underhanded when it comes to paying their employees how can you possibly trust them when it comes to your well being and treatment? It is my understanding that crewmembers like working for CCL and those that don't like working for them have probably moved on. (Of course all of the mainstream lines handle this very similarly.) The statement I highlighted applies equally to the traditionally tipped as well as the non-traditionally tipped, and that's the way it's always been- every passenger doesn't leave a tip although most do and some do leave more, from the crewmember's pov it's always been a crap shoot.

[golfadj]

Nobody forces the crewmembers to come to Carnival and stay. Obviously they stay as they make much better money then they would at home.

 

Almost all of the stewards and head waiters who take care of us are long term employees and almost all seem to like working for Carnival.

 

If they didnt they would look to go to another cruise line or just stay in their own country. Turnover seems very low.

 

Did they deserve this small increase? Of course and many of us think it should have been more to make up for some people posting on here who seem just cheap and make up reasons why they do not have to tip.

[sparks1093]

They System is what the System is. I didnt set it up. I am just a Customer within it. They created the rules about the Tipping being optional & I take advantage of it. My Belief, Philosphy or whatever is that TIPS are for Extra Service above & beyond what is normal or expected. So if you expect me to subsidize their salary, you need to make it part of the base fare. If you allow me to decide, I will decide however I believe is deserved or not.

 

I agree that these employees may be underpaid. But as I said, I DIDNT create this system. So I have no problem with it being reformed to be fairer to them. But I will play by the rules & I will TIP what I believe is warranted.

 

Ah, the nefarious "They". CCL didn't create this system, it's been around in the service industry for probably close to a century (and all of the mainstream cruise lines use a similar model). You are of course free to believe what you want but the fact still remains that for tipped employees, at sea or on land, a large share of their compensation is from the tips that they receive. So if you only tip for "extra" (whatever that means to you) then the person serving you is being shortchanged by you (whether you care to admit that or not).

 

I know a person that works as a bellhop. That individual makes over $50k a year from tips. I wouldn't consider that to be underpaid. I don't see the crewmembers as underpaid either (unless of course people withhold the tips).

[katiel53]

This is pretty much what I expected. We have a "tipping" increase and those who truly should benefit from it aren't getting it and don't even know about it

 

The reason the employees aren't getting it, is that it doesn't go into effect until Dec.1. Why would they get any increase before then?????

[bzpilot]

The reason the employees aren't getting it, is that it doesn't go into effect until Dec.1. Why would they get any increase before then?????

 

I agree, but you'd think they'd at least know about it. If I was the employer I sure as heck would be telling my employees by now "Look at what we are doing for you! You'll see an increase in pay before the holidays."

[sparks1093]

I agree, but you'd think they'd at least know about it. If I was the employer I sure as heck would be telling my employees by now "Look at what we are doing for you! You'll see an increase in pay before the holidays."

 

Would you be willing to discuss your salary with anyone who happened along?

[Gator Man]

bzpilot, you nailed it, well thought out and I agree with you 100 percent. At the rate they are going pretty soon they will want us to tip the Captain. I think this new policy might be a result of the other employees feeling they were being left out as carnival pays such low wages. It is in my opinion a way for Carnival to supplement wages in order to keep cruise fares low. I paid three times as much to go on the Festival in 1988 than I did on the Dream this year, they were both great cruises but the service and amenities were better on the Festival as well as the food. I would rather pay a little more in the cruise fare than be nickled and dimed to death. In my opinion service and food and amenities don't even come close to what they used to be. A lot was lost when Uncle Bob retired and the Bean counter took over.

[scooterpopsnana]

OK, so lol wow ... angry person huh ...lol ok so I agree that the tipping people that do their jobs is stupid, short way of saying it. BUT you made an example of the pizza guy.. Do you realize that this person uses, his own car, his own gas, and is bringing you something so you dont have to get off your butt and cook? better yet letting you be lazy. you may not know this but they DO NOT get paid gas or anything or a company car.. its all theirs and its all out of pocket.. i know. Ive worked for 3 different pizza company's. they all work the same..

 

AGAIN I agree 200% with the carnival doing their tips.. but it must be different on each boat because I am scheduled to go on a 4 night Bahamas cruise on 11-27-11 and it was $10 pp per day so it cost us $80 bucks in tips. I wont be tipping any more than what I have already paid.[/quote]

 

Actually, it goes into effect on Dec. 1st, and you would have been notified via email had your cruise been after that. You got in under the wire.

[boo214]

They System is what the System is. I didnt set it up. I am just a Customer within it. They created the rules about the Tipping being optional & I take advantage of it. My Belief, Philosphy or whatever is that TIPS are for Extra Service above & beyond what is normal or expected. So if you expect me to subsidize their salary, you need to make it part of the base fare. If you allow me to decide, I will decide however I believe is deserved or not.

 

I agree that these employees may be underpaid. But as I said, I DIDNT create this system. So I have no problem with it being reformed to be fairer to them. But I will play by the rules & I will TIP what I believe is warranted.

so in other words, you stiff the crew

either way you subsidize their salary. to use your example, charge $570.00 cruise fare or charge $500 + $70 tips. either way its the same thing. $570 = $570 right?

[firefly333]

so in other words, you stiff the crew

either way you subsidize their salary. to use your example, charge $570.00 cruise fare or charge $500 + $70 tips. either way its the same thing. $570 = $570 right?

 

If I were making a pilots salary and getting interline rates, I could afford to tip. So many people I thought were good people I have taken down my respect for a notch.

 

These threads are sure a eye opener on people who are cheap.

[bzpilot]

If I were making a pilots salary and getting interline rates, I could afford to tip. So many people I thought were good people I have taken down my respect for a notch.

 

These threads are sure a eye opener on people who are cheap.

 

Before I comment out of line I would just like to confirm that this was personally aimed at me.

[Cruise Organizer]

don't cruise with CCL.

The best way to show your displeasure is to not buy the product.

 

I hear some say against my "principles" - if that is the case, how can you buy something that you feel is wrong.

If I feel that a company is underhanded - I will not be a customer - stick to your principles.

If the complaints are a way of justifying stiffing the workers, go on the cruise

Having the "tips" adjustable, you have options, pay them, give extra, give less or give nothing - your choice. If CCL raises the fare - no choice

 

I would prefer that CCL raise the fare, and upgrade the food and service, though I doubt that will happen.

CCL is the low cost provider - that is their target market.

$10 doesn't not upset me no matter how is is distributed - that is CCL choice - if you don't like it, take your business elsewhere, maybe then CCL will notice