Concordia News: Please Post Here

[Tonka's Skipper]

Thanks, Skipper;

 

It should take 30 seconds for the rudder to actually swing from hard one way to hard the other. And you know better than I do, how painful the time can be between the rudder actually swinging, and the ship starting to turn. He was way to late with way too little.

 

The guys talking about body language got me thinking of Rodney Dangerfield; Schettino isn't "getting any respect" either, and he looks it.

 

 

I agree..30 seconds hard over to hard over, My 10 to 15 seconds was midship to hard over either side.

 

I am sure we both remember being in a tight spot and those few second waiting for her to react to a rudder command or something in the ER to start...............those few seconds can seem like a hour!:rolleyes:

[chengkp75]

I agree..30 seconds hard over to hard over' date=' My 10 to 15 seconds was midship to hard over either side.

 

I am sure we both remember being in a tight spot and those few second waiting for her to react to a rudder command or something in the ER to start...............those few seconds can seem like a hour!:rolleyes:[/quote']

 

Yeah, us poor bastards down in ECR watching the telegraph and rudder indicators, and wondering what the heck was going on, until.....

 

One nice thing about the cruise ships was the bow camera feed to ECR, so we could see when to hang on to the chair arms!

 

We were docking in Honolulu one fine Sunday, when we noticed the street lights flickering, and then the ship gave that little wiggle like a tug had bumped us, but nothing else. Then we heard the Security Officer on the radio saying that there had been an earthquake, and the terminal was without power. The whole island of Oahu was down for most of the day. We ended up placing temporary power panels in the terminal to power the embarkation computers. We were the only place in Honolulu with lights for quite a few hours.

[DesertPesce7751]

I've been thinking of the diminished capacity plea scenario...is it possible that, upon return from summer holiday, the defense attorney will change his plea, citing the now lengthy documentation of Schettino's delusions of grandeur?

 

 

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[Tonka's Skipper]

Did Carnival not learn its lesson?...did they take another massive cruise liner and do a showboat sail by in Venice????

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2380412/Carnival-Sunshine-cruise-ship-passes-dangerously-close-Venetian-shoreline.html

 

Seems possible, but there's not really enough evidence to be sure, and I cannot get the video to run.

 

AKK

Edited July 28, 2013 by Tonka's Skipper

[Uniall]

Did Carnival not learn its lesson?...did they take another massive cruise liner and do a showboat sail by in Venice????

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2380412/Carnival-Sunshine-cruise-ship-passes-dangerously-close-Venetian-shoreline.html

 

Seems possible' date=' but there's not really enough evidence to be sure, and I cannot get the video to run.

 

AKK[/quote']

 

Yep, it sure looks like that's what they did.

 

Only this time, it was to salute the CEO of Carnival:

Mickey Ari(gant)son. :rolleyes:

 

John

PS

The video shows the cruise ship squeezing a large passenger water taxi dangerously close into the pier.

Edited July 28, 2013 by Uniall

[sidari]

Tonka .... Every large cruise ship going into or out of Venice has a Tugboat Front and Aft just as the Sunshine has in the Video, the Aft Tug is there to help keep the Stern in the channel so if there is a case to answer then the problem must have been with the Aft Tug! must check out our many pictures going in and out of Venice and see where the Stern and Tug are at the point in the video.

 

The story seems to be just more cruise ship haters having a whinge about the ships going in to Venice, the Vaparetto`s and small craft cause more bow waves and damage in and around the Lagoon than any cruise ship that has the Two Tug escort! after all the ship can only go as fast as the tug pulling it.

[Tonka's Skipper]

Tonka .... Every large cruise ship going into or out of Venice has a Tugboat Front and Aft just as the Sunshine has in the Video, the Aft Tug is there to help keep the Stern in the channel so if there is a case to answer then the problem must have been with the Aft Tug! must check out our many pictures going in and out of Venice and see where the Stern and Tug are at the point in the video.

 

The story seems to be just more cruise ship haters having a whinge about the ships going in to Venice, the Vaparetto`s and small craft cause more bow waves and damage in and around the Lagoon than any cruise ship that has the Two Tug escort! after all the ship can only go as fast as the tug pulling it.

 

 

Your very possibly totally correct Sid, as I hedged my statement , we don't have enough information and I couldn't get the video to run.

 

I just read that may not even be Arsons (spl??) yacht!

 

AKK

[chengkp75]

Your very possibly totally correct Sid' date=' as I hedged my statement , we don't have enough information and I couldn't get the video to run.

 

I just read that may not even be Arsons (spl??) yacht!

 

AKK[/quote']

 

The only thing I saw was that I thought the speed was sort of excessive for that close to shore (some waves), and the aft tug was definitely being dragged around the turn.

[Uniall]

Fellas

 

I've viewed and reviewed (there's the original meaning of that word) the footage. It sure looks to me that the tug was no where near the cruise ship when it was parallel to the pier (with the 50 passenger water taxi between the ship and pier). Even after the ship's bow has swung to to portside and the stern to starboard to move away from the pier, there is no tug in sight. The tug shows up in the next frames entering the picture from left to right and is following the ship as it moves awsay from the pier.

 

It sure looks to me that the tug was following the ship but was not involved in the manuever alongside and then away from the pier. (Try using the corner of the restaurant overhanging awning as a reference point)

 

John

Edited July 28, 2013 by Uniall

[chengkp75]

Fellas

 

I've viewed and reviewed (there's the original meaning of that word) the footage. It sure looks to me that the tug was no where near the cruise ship when it was parallel to the pier (with the 50 passenger water taxi between the ship and pier). Even after the ship's bow has swung to to portside and the stern to starboard to move away from the pier, there is no tug in sight. The tug shows up in the next frames entering the picture from left to right and is following the ship as it moves awsay from the pier.

 

It sure looks to me that the tug was following the ship but was not involved in the manuever alongside and then away from the pier. (Try using the corner of the restaurant overhanging awning as a reference point)

 

John

 

While the pilot's association and the CG have debunked this, I am referring to the first 10 second shot of the video. There is a black hulled tug on a stern hawser that is going backward at a pretty good rate for being in that confined waters. I don't know the harbor in Venice, so I can't say what normal speed of transit is, but that tug is making good time astern.

[SomeBeach]

While the pilot's association and the CG have debunked this, I am referring to the first 10 second shot of the video. There is a black hulled tug on a stern hawser that is going backward at a pretty good rate for being in that confined waters. I don't know the harbor in Venice, so I can't say what normal speed of transit is, but that tug is making good time astern.

 

The early part did look a bit close for comfort.

Agree with the rest of your comment.

Also not sure if there was some "zoom" of the video.

But CG confirms that it was a safe amount of space.

Keep in mind, Venice has a lot of folks that don't want big ships docking or passing through anywhere near them. This just adds fuel to their fire.

[SomeBeach]

I was just reading an article about the crash of the train in Spain. I found this part interesting.

"Examining Magistrate Luis Alaez formally charged Garzon with "79 counts of homicide and numerous offences of bodily harm, all of them committed through professional recklessness," the court said in a statement."

 

Apparently this fella bragged about being able to go fast. Found the term I highlighted an interesting way of wording the charges.

Didn't Schettino also brag about wanting to get closer to Giglio then when the company sponsored event took place.

Edited July 29, 2013 by SomeBeach

[SomeBeach]

Lone has moved back next to Concordia. From the position it is currently in I'd say P4 is going to be set.

[SomeBeach]

As of this post Lone looks to be at the P13 position.

[sidari]

SB ... The train driver of the Spanish train is said to have been traveling at over 100mph around a bend with a speed limit of just 50mph, footage shows the 2nd and 3rd coaches begining to jump up behind the locomotive as it enters the bend,there is also a bright flash as it happens which could be the high tension conductor being pulled away from the overhead power line.

 

 

The CG says the ship was 70 metres from the shoreline, a minimum of 210 feet which is quite normal in Venice in certain parts, the area is way down from St Marks Square, the Vaparetto is actually going between the ship and the shoreline not the ship going by a parked Vaparetto!

 

The video appears to have been played with to make it fit the story hence no footage of the Vaparetto just a circled photograph, Arisons yacht was no where near where the ship is pictured and the one claiming to be his in the story is not his.

 

When we were on the NCL Jade which was reversing from its berth in Venice we were watching from the Stern of the ship, the small water Taxi`s, other private boats and even Vaparetto`s were dicing with death by coming close to the Stern as the ship reversed!

 

The story is another Non story aimed at throwing mud at Carnival and jumping on the ban the ships from Venice bandwagon.

[SomeBeach]

Sidari, your post comes off as trying to correct my opinion in my last 2 posts.

 

If you reread my post you'll notice that I did say I wondered if some "zoom" was added. That would change the perception of how close the ship may have been.

I also acknowledged the CG stating that the ship was within the boundaries of where it should have been.

I haven't been to Venice but I don't doubt that other watercraft almost play a game of chicken with larger vessels. Heck, just watch the feed from Giglio, see it all the time.

It's not just Carnival the people want to sling mud at, it's all large cruise ships, something else I acknowledged.

As to the train, I watched the video and know what happened.

My point was I found a term used interesting. I still believe in some ways the same could be said of Schettino.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Keep up the good work here. I'll read y'all later in the week.

[chengkp75]

Hey guys;

 

Let's take a step back and a couple of deep breaths. The Sunshine is a non-issue, so let's get back to some worthwhile, enjoyable, and creative bashing of Schettino.

[cruiserfanfromct]

What does Schettino and the speed freak driver (bragging on FaceBook right before) in last week’s Spanish train crash have in common? Let's throw in Anthony Weiner even though he didn't kill anyone for arguement's sake. All three of them all committed crimes of dickmanship that ended in disaster.

 

These are three educated middle aged men - an Italian, a Spaniard and an American (yes Americans do stupid things too) showing off in an out-of-control way - two using speed and killing innocent passengers and the latter sexting his privates all over the internet for the world to see. Note to all 3 men - this is international: Brain: An apparatus with which we think. - Next time use this and not your dick to think. :p

[sidari]

SB ... Not sure why you felt i was trying to correct you it certainly was not my intention to when i made my post ? i have noticed that i put 70 metres which was my mistake it should have been around 20 metres or 60 Feet! The mud slinging comment was about the Media.

 

CT ... From the news here it was said that the post on FB by the train driver was from a section of track where the train was able to do that speed, though posting it on FB was somewhat stupid.

Edited July 29, 2013 by sidari

[Vampire Parrot]

Did Carnival not learn its lesson?...did they take another massive cruise liner and do a showboat sail by in Venice????

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2380412/Carnival-Sunshine-cruise-ship-passes-dangerously-close-Venetian-shoreline.html

 

Seems possible' date=' but there's not really enough evidence to be sure, and I cannot get the video to run.

 

AKK[/quote']

 

Skipper, you are right to be skeptical.....

 

The Daily Mail is infamous for printing articles that are factually incorrect. Recently they printed an article about an RAF aircraft that avoided another aircraft by performing a manoeuvre that, according to the picture in the Daily Mail, would have required the aircraft to make a 15000-G turn. Rather more than the 7.5G the aircraft in question is capable of!

 

Regarding the Venetian shoreline sail-by - I've just looked at my (out of date) chart, and had the Carnival Sunshine been 20m (according to the Daily Mail) from the shore then it would have run aground on the mud. Plus there would have been an "interesting" discussion going on between the Captain and the Pilot....!

 

VP

Edited July 29, 2013 by Vampire Parrot

[cruiserfanfromct]

CT ... From the news here it was said that the post on FB by the train driver was from a section of track where the train was able to do that speed, though posting it on FB was somewhat stupid.

My thoughts exactly! Just like Schettino doing interviews - not smart. Let's see what gems pop up this week. :D

[cruiseaddict5279]

If I remember correctly, someone asked about the "Blister" labeled caison. I can't find it, but I thought I remember seeing on the parbuclking website that part of that caison will be installed before the parbuckling, and then the other half, after the parbuckling happens. Is that correct? If not, what is the Blister all about?

[foxgoodrich]

I have learned 2 new things reading this board today - the concepts of professional recklessness and dickmanship. These are terms we need in our language!

 

I keep wanting to say something with this terminology....like....He was charged with first degree PROFESSIONAL RECKLESSNESS following his public display of aggravated DICKMANSHIP during the performance of his duties. That was fun!:p

 

Seriously - these are truly great new words/terms. I'm going to have to remember them!

Judy

[Bearded Engineer]

If I remember correctly, someone asked about the "Blister" labeled caison. I can't find it, but I thought I remember seeing on the parbuclking website that part of that caison will be installed before the parbuckling, and then the other half, after the parbuckling happens. Is that correct? If not, what is the Blister all about?

 

It is my belief that the blister is a support structure to provide a flat surface on which to mount the cassions at the bow.

[Uniall]

I have learned 2 new things reading this board today - the concepts of professional recklessness and dickmanship. These are terms we need in our language!

 

I keep wanting to say something with this terminology....like....He was charged with first degree PROFESSIONAL RECKLESSNESS following his public display of aggravated DICKMANSHIP during the performance of his duties. That was fun!:p

 

Seriously - these are truly great new words/terms. I'm going to have to remember them!

Judy

 

Professional Recklessnes may be a poor translation from the Spanish. But, the seeming meaning and intendiment of the words do not have a corresponding concept in American crimnial law. We have "reckless homicide" which is acting with a "reckless disregard" for the safety of others. :eek:

 

As far as a crime of "dickmanship" is concerned, to my knowledge the closest US law ever came to such a legal concept was the the long gone crime of "mopery". :D