Concordia News: Please Post Here

[sidari]

VP .... With regard to the Daily sheep dip ... the picture they claim is Arisons yacht is in fact the Aegean Oddysey which at the time was nowhere near Italy.

[Uniall]

VP .... With regard to the Daily sheep dip ... the picture they claim is Arisons yacht is in fact the Aegean Oddysey which at the time was nowhere near Italy.

 

Syd

 

Mickey Ari(gant)son's yacht is in the video. But, the still photo photo of the 500-600 foot all white ship is mislabeled as his yacht. I think his yacht is the white over black 150 - 175 foot yacht which is found about half way thru the video.

 

 

[cruiserfanfromct]

Judge dismisses cases for Roberto Bosio and two others and sentenced another three to pay fines.

 

http://www.gazzettadelsud.it/news/english/55403/Judge-dismisses-three-cases--fines-others-in-Costa-Concordia.html

[cruiserfanfromct]

CODACONS to ask the public prosecutor's office to open an investigation for violation of transport security and risk of shipwreck for Carnival Sunshine's salute in Venice.

 

http://www.iol.co.za/travel/travel-news/call-for-probe-after-cruise-ship-manoeuvre-1.1553971#.Ufb9pY2Tjh4

[Uniall]

Judge dismisses cases for Roberto Bosio and two others and sentenced another three to pay fines.

 

http://www.gazzettadelsud.it/news/english/55403/Judge-dismisses-three-cases--fines-others-in-Costa-Concordia.html

 

The Judge's ruling strikes me as appropriate.

 

In Italy either side, including the prosecutor can appeal at multple levels.

 

It will be interesting to see if the prosecutor waives his appeal rights in return for testimony against Schittino.

Edited July 30, 2013 by Uniall

[chengkp75]

Judge dismisses cases for Roberto Bosio and two others and sentenced another three to pay fines.

 

http://www.gazzettadelsud.it/news/english/55403/Judge-dismisses-three-cases--fines-others-in-Costa-Concordia.html

 

And still the poor helmsman gets screwed.

[cruiserfanfromct]

And still the poor helmsman gets screwed.

Classic case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Since he got less than two years he might not have to serve. I think I read somewhere that anything less than two years in Italy generally doesn't have to be served. Hoping that's the case for him.

[chengkp75]

Classic case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Since he got less than two years he might not have to serve. I think I read somewhere that anything less than two years in Italy generally doesn't have to be served. Hoping that's the case for him.

 

Just wondering what he was convicted of, and what the Italian laws about convicted criminals entering the country. I still think he should have taken a vacation back in Indonesia, and shipped out on RCI, NCL, or Carnival anywhere other than Italy.

[cruiserfanfromct]

Just wondering what he was convicted of, and what the Italian laws about convicted criminals entering the country. I still think he should have taken a vacation back in Indonesia, and shipped out on RCI, NCL, or Carnival anywhere other than Italy.

He might have not shown up in court this time around -- can't say that I blame him. Rusli did say Costa pressured him into admitting guilt. This was reported back in March by an Indonesian newspaper:

 

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2013/03/30/indonesian-helmsman-refuses-show-italian-court.html

[chengkp75]

He might have not shown up in court this time around -- can't say that I blame him. Rusli did say Costa pressured him into admitting guilt. This was reported back in March by an Indonesian newspaper:

 

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2013/03/30/indonesian-helmsman-refuses-show-italian-court.html

 

Thanks, you've obviously been tracking this much closer than I, I'm more on the salvage front. I'll just bet that his employment contract was terminated anyway, immediately after admitting culpability, for disobeying the Captain (which he just admitted to). 12 years with Costa, and they will throw him to the wolves; typical for international crews. His union in Indonesia seems willing to help, so he should get a job anywhere, as an experienced seaman.

[sidari]

Has anyone heard mention of the two people in the report from the crisis unit before Urdprunger and Parodi? from what i recall there was only ever mention of the main man Ferarini from the crisis unit that was in court.

 

Uni .. thanks for that.

Edited July 30, 2013 by sidari

[cruiserfanfromct]

Thanks, you've obviously been tracking this much closer than I, I'm more on the salvage front. I'll just bet that his employment contract was terminated anyway, immediately after admitting culpability, for disobeying the Captain (which he just admitted to). 12 years with Costa, and they will throw him to the wolves; typical for international crews. His union in Indonesia seems willing to help, so he should get a job anywhere, as an experienced seaman.

 

You're welcome ;)

 

Just found this reenactment of the accident on QPS using the recorded AIS data. Not sure how accurate this is and if somehow the audio could be transposed onto it. But I guess that's what they did as to the actions of helmsman in the MIT report (see last link, page 51-55), which does point out some mistakes. My question is: had the helmsman done everything as exactly ordered, would this have completely prevented the impact? It seems they were going mightly fast and flying by the seat of their pants.

 

 

http://cf.gcaptain.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Costa_Concordia_-_Full_Investigation_Report.pdf

[cruiserfanfromct]

Has anyone heard mention of the two people in the report from the crisis unit before Urdprunger and Parodi? from what i recall there was only ever mention of the main man Ferarini from the crisis unit that was in court.

 

Uni .. thanks for that.

Yes, those two names were vaguely mentioned in the past. Roberto Ferrarini was the Marine Operations Director /

Fleet Crisis Coordinator - he got two years, 10 months in jail the other two, Ursprunger and Parodi received monetary fines.

[chengkp75]

You're welcome ;)

 

Just found this reenactment of the accident on QPS using the recorded AIS data. Not sure how accurate this is and if somehow the audio could be transposed onto it. But I guess that's what they did as to the actions of helmsman in the MIT report (see last link, page 51-55), which does point out some mistakes. My question is: had the helmsman done everything as exactly ordered, would this have completely prevented the impact? It seems they were going mightly fast and flying by the seat of their pants.

 

 

http://cf.gcaptain.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Costa_Concordia_-_Full_Investigation_Report.pdf

 

The problem with the QPS reenactment is that it does not show the rudder angle at the same time as the heading. This is critical to determining not only fault of the helmsman, but Schettino as well.

 

I've got a copy of the MIT report downloaded, and have read it fairly extensively. I believe the report comments that there were misunderstood "headings" (i.e. "315") that were corrected (this happens frequently, particularly when you hear the background conversations on the bridge at a time when there should not have been anything going on other than the navigation of the vessel), and one instance where the helmsman started to reverse his helm, but which was corrected within 8 seconds.

 

Ships are required to be able to move the rudder from hard port to hard starboard in 30 seconds, so there is a lag between what position the helm is at, and the rudder (this is discussed in the MIT report). Also, each ship is required to post a "turning radius" card (Skipper help me with the right name) that tells how quickly the ship will respond to helm commands at various speeds. You would need to factor this turning response into any reenactment to determine whether any action by Schettino or the helmsman could have saved the ship.

 

As I've said about Schettino's claim that he ordered port helm to keep the stern from swinging into the rock, he should have ordered an immediate hard port command, rather than going "midship", "port 10", "port 20", which anyone familiar with the handling characteristics of his own ship would have known.

[cruiserfanfromct]

The problem with the QPS reenactment is that it does not show the rudder angle at the same time as the heading. This is critical to determining not only fault of the helmsman, but Schettino as well.

 

I've got a copy of the MIT report downloaded, and have read it fairly extensively. I believe the report comments that there were misunderstood "headings" (i.e. "315") that were corrected (this happens frequently, particularly when you hear the background conversations on the bridge at a time when there should not have been anything going on other than the navigation of the vessel), and one instance where the helmsman started to reverse his helm, but which was corrected within 8 seconds.

 

Ships are required to be able to move the rudder from hard port to hard starboard in 30 seconds, so there is a lag between what position the helm is at, and the rudder (this is discussed in the MIT report). Also, each ship is required to post a "turning radius" card (Skipper help me with the right name) that tells how quickly the ship will respond to helm commands at various speeds. You would need to factor this turning response into any reenactment to determine whether any action by Schettino or the helmsman could have saved the ship.

 

As I've said about Schettino's claim that he ordered port helm to keep the stern from swinging into the rock, he should have ordered an immediate hard port command, rather than going "midship", "port 10", "port 20", which anyone familiar with the handling characteristics of his own ship would have known.

Wow -- thanks so much for this! Very informative. The Peter Principle rearing its ugly head. Schettino promoted to captain will go down as being one of the most rock-hard-quasar-stupid decisions ever made in Maritime history. Just looking at it from a numbers perspective thus far, with the wreck and salvage -- it is staggering -- more than a billion and counting!

[chengkp75]

Wow -- thanks so much for this! Very informative. The Peter Principle rearing its ugly head. Schettino promoted to captain will go down as being one of the most rock-hard-quasar-stupid decisions ever made in Maritime history. Just looking at it from a numbers perspective thus far, with the wreck and salvage -- it is staggering -- more than a billion and counting!

 

As a further note to my comments about analyzing rudder angle to heading, etc, to reenact the accident, the MIT report also analyzes helm position with regard to rudder angle, which is another key element. Turning ships requires a good deal of time lag (delay between the helm command and the rudder reaching the requested position), and between the time the rudder moves and the ship starts to turn. Any skipper worth a bucket of warm **** knows this, and knows his ship's handling. Also, as I've stated, Schettino gave heading commands (which allow the helmsman to steer to the ordered heading as he (the helmsman) sees fit), rather than rudder angle commands until just seconds before the impact.

[Uniall]

Wow -- thanks so much for this! Very informative. The Peter Principle rearing its ugly head. Schettino promoted to captain will go down as being one of the most rock-hard-quasar-stupid decisions ever made in Maritime history. Just looking at it from a numbers perspective thus far, with the wreck and salvage -- it is staggering -- more than a billion and counting!

 

CF

 

I still maintain there's an ethnic element in play here. I know, it's politically incorrect but some men choose to live the image of their ethnic stereotyping. (I readily confess guilty of that charge, especially on St. Paddy's Day)

 

I've believed from the beginning, that Schittino's problems stem, not from incompetence (Peter Principle), but from his chosen self image as a stereotypical Italian MachoMan.

Edited July 30, 2013 by Uniall

[chengkp75]

CF

 

I still maintain there's an ethnic element in play here. I know, it's politically incorrect but some men choose to live the image of their ethnic stereotyping. (I readily confess guilty of that charge, especially on St. Paddy's Day)

 

I've believed from the beginning, that Schittino's problems stem, not from incompetence (Peter Principle), but from his chosen self image as a stereotypical Italian MachoMan.

 

Got to disagree with you Uni. I think Schettino suffers from BOTH professional incompetence as well as a lothario/macho image of himself.

[Uniall]

Got to disagree with you Uni. I think Schettino suffers from BOTH professional incompetence as well as a lothario/macho image of himself.

 

You may be correct. The two traits are not mutually exclusive.

 

But, I think the Italian MachoMan self image was honed by Schittino many years before he reached any competency threshold.

 

I still maintain it was machismo that induced his decision to do the "sail by salute" and distracted his full attention to the maneuver.

[chengkp75]

You may be correct. The two traits are not mutually exclusive.

 

But, I think the Italian MachoMan self image was honed by Schittino many years before he reached any competency threshold.

 

I still maintain it was machismo that induced his decision to do the "sail by salute" and distracted his full attention to the maneuver.

 

Totally agree with your characterization of his motivations prior to the accident, but his professional incompetence led to the subsequent chaos and loss of life.

[lightman1984]

noticed yesterday that Lone pulled away from CC still carrying P13 so I guess they ran into a problem there. Keeping to the schedule, looks to be installing P4 today though!

[chengkp75]

noticed yesterday that Lone pulled away from CC still carrying P13 so I guess they ran into a problem there. Keeping to the schedule, looks to be installing P4 today though!

 

Yeah, given that they are welding the mounts on the side of the ship (while rappelling down the side), and then trying to mount a pre-fab box onto it, I'm sure there is a little bit of trial fitting, then cutting, and final fitting involved. Shipbuilding is still more art than science.

[cruiseaddict5279]

It is my belief that the blister is a support structure to provide a flat surface on which to mount the cassions at the bow.

 

OK, that would make sense.

[lightman1984]

Lone definitely hitting the open water after P4. Guess no P13 on this trip.

[chengkp75]

Lone definitely hitting the open water after P4. Guess no P13 on this trip.

 

Looked like it was onboard, she's going back to Santo Stefano. Like I said, cutting and trimming, maybe shimming. Probably a couple of days, or they would have anchored nearby.