Concordia News: Please Post Here

[SomeBeach]

Thanks for the pic!

 

Looks like the cut away some steel' date=' the stuff over the rock and hanging out from the hull

 

It also looks like some of the rock has be drilled/cut away. You can still see some drill holes.

 

 

AKK[/quote']

 

I also noticed the holes. I wondered if they were put in as a way to insert something to assist in pulling the rock out.

Rochesterboating, thanks for the pix.

[SomeBeach]

 

 

SB .... Bad News ! posted on Facebook a few minutes ago.

 

After some hard days on Isola del Giglio we have to decide to stop the camera at once. Reasons are the termination of the consent to place the camera on the last location. We tried everything to change the camera to another position and we had an agreement for a new position. After a 1500 Km. trip to Italy we found out the new position wasn't good enough and made agreements were not fulfilled.

It was a very difficult decision but we put the plug out of the camera.

We will try to get more done but at this moment there is no longer a live feed.

With our apology to you all on behalf of The Last Salute crew

 

Darn! I'm sorry to read this. Thank you for the further update.

[cruiserfanfromct]

I also noticed the holes. I wondered if they were put in as a way to insert something to assist in pulling the rock out.

 

Rochesterboating, thanks for the pix.

 

Looks like it in this pix:

[cruiserfanfromct]

Here's what the Last Salute webcam shows now -- too bad they weren't able to finish their project -- I was just about to donate some money...

 

Edited August 3, 2012 by cruiserfanfromct

[Max49]

Yea I guess that's a left handed insult to blonds but it sounds like you're infactuated with them too.

I think it's fact that he was "the captain" on the ship that hot rodded the ship about 16 or 18 MPH way to close to shore and slammed it into rocks. I never heard that any one else was so clumbsy and not used to a listing ship that they fell into a lifeboat, nor have I heard from any witnesses of this lucky fall. I have not heard of any mutiny or hi jacking on the ship rendering schettino unable to control the navigation of the ship.

Can you please tell one me little thing that would make me think, "Hmm maybe it was'nt schettino's fault? "

 

It didn't sound like 'the last salute' was too happy about having to shut their camera down. Does any one know why they had to move it? Bad publicity for Schettino? ; Giglio? Is it possble that Schettino's lawyer could have persuaded some pressure to have it removed? Kinda like 'out of sight, out of mind'? That's too bad, salvaging this ship should be a historical event and we now have the technology to witness it; and they shut it down. I'll be watching because if another camera is out there, it'll be discovered and shared here, thank you.

[cruiserfanfromct]

.. I'll be watching because if another camera is out there, it'll be discovered and shared here, thank you.

 

Max -- Here's the other Giglio webcam -- it is night there now but you can see the outline of the Concordia on the far left:

 

http://www.giglionews.it/2010022440919/webcam/isola-del-giglio/webcam-giglio-porto-panoramica.html

 

Not sure what happened with the Last Salute having to move their camera and why they could not secure another site. Too bad they could not see their movie project to fruition -- maybe someone will pick up where they left off.

[Uniall]

Yea I guess that's a left handed insult to blonds but it sounds like you're infactuated with them too.

I think it's fact that he was "the captain" on the ship that hot rodded the ship about 16 or 18 MPH way to close to shore and slammed it into rocks. I never heard that any one else was so clumbsy and not used to a listing ship that they fell into a lifeboat, nor have I heard from any witnesses of this lucky fall. I have not heard of any mutiny or hi jacking on the ship rendering schettino unable to control the navigation of the ship.

Can you please tell one me little thing that would make me think, "Hmm maybe it was'nt schettino's fault? "

 

It didn't sound like 'the last salute' was too happy about having to shut their camera down. Does any one know why they had to move it? Bad publicity for Schettino? ; Giglio? Is it possble that Schettino's lawyer could have persuaded some pressure to have it removed? Kinda like 'out of sight, out of mind'? That's too bad, salvaging this ship should be a historical event and we now have the technology to witness it; and they shut it down. I'll be watching because if another camera is out there, it'll be discovered and shared here, thank you.

 

The first place a trained investigator would look would be to see if Costa Cruises paid a lot more money to the property owner to order the camera removed that the camera people were paying to keep it there.

 

The next place to look would be local government pressure put on the porperty owner to end bad press for the town.

Edited August 3, 2012 by Uniall

[SomeBeach]

CT, thanks for that pix.

[sidari]

Max ... Last salute were asked by the owner of wherever the camera was based to remove it, they then got an agreement with someone else who has since renaged on the deal since they went out to Giglio.

 

It may well be that someone on giglio does not want the camera there because it is getting more hits than the islands webcam! or is someone trying to hide something that they do not want us to see .... :eek:

[Ratt]

The first place a trained investigator would look would be to see if Costa Cruises paid a lot more money to the property owner to order the camera removed that the camera people were paying to keep it there.

 

The next place to look would be local government pressure put on the porperty owner to end bad press for the town.

 

Don't forget the possibility that a production company has been hired or given the rights to document the salvage operation. They might have had or want to have their own camera(s) setup and recording and don't want any competition.

[Max49]

I still think it is a historical event. Is'nt this the largest ship to ever be uprighted, salvaged and towed away? Even if it's not, combine that with the rare event that it capsized not only close to land, but close to a relatively large town.

Maybe the publicity for Giglio is not all good, but it seems to attract alot of people to witness this ship and the salvage effort. The workers also must be spending money in town also. I also doubt if any one is going to book a trip to Giglio that did'nt know the Concordia was half sunk off the coast. Webcam or not, the Concordia is real and it's there whether the last salute is there or not.

I know Italy and Giglio were worried about any pollution caused by the process and the ship. I would think that Giglio would insist on having cameras on the entire operation 24/ 7 from beginning to end. I know if you rent a major football stadium for a circus or a race or whatever they have camera watching the entire time to make sure there is no damage not repaired. I would think that National Geographic or something similar would have an interest in this also. Maybe someone out bid the last salute and will replace their camera.

I imagine Schettino and his attorney are glad to see 'the last salute' shut down.

Thanks for that link to the webcam but obviously it's no 'last salute'. I used to like the one behind the fuel pumps and marina better because you could see the workers, tourists and the boats going in and out but I guess some one did'nt like it.

[SomeBeach]

Max, I wouldn't be surprised if when the winter season comes around that the Giglio view you mention returns. I tend to think Giglio turns it every year to showcase the town itself during the tourist season. We'll probably have to wait until Dec or Jan to see if it gets turned back.

[Uniall]

Don't forget the possibility that a production company has been hired or given the rights to document the salvage operation. They might have had or want to have their own camera(s) setup and recording and don't want any competition.

 

Yes, that could be. I'd make it number 3 for the investigators. The one thing that screams out loud is that somebody is trumping the dollars offered by the "Last Salute" people, whether by more money or political power or both.

[Tonka's Skipper]

I also noticed the holes. I wondered if they were put in as a way to insert something to assist in pulling the rock out.

 

Rochesterboating, thanks for the pix.

 

 

I think the holes are drilled to provide a breaking point/line in the rock.

 

AKK

[sidari]

Explosive charges were also used to help remove part of the rock, the parts cut away from the ship were more than likely done for safety of people working in and around that area ie people not having to dodge sharp edges of the steel as well as making it a little more easy to remove the rock.

[rubicondsrv]

I think the holes are drilled to provide a breaking point/line in the rock.

 

AKK

 

that's what it looks like to me as well, it looks identical to the placement of holes in stone quarries to make clean cuts in rock with explosives or expanding agents.

 

(less holes with more explosives can be used if you don't care about shattering the rock, but that would complicate removal)

[CtheW0rld]

another webcam: http://www.webcams.travel/webcam/1298809230-Weather-Isola-del-Giglio-Panoramica-Porto-Giglio-Porto

[Uniall]

another webcam: http://www.webcams.travel/webcam/1298809230-Weather-Isola-del-Giglio-Panoramica-Porto-Giglio-Porto

 

NCL allows smoking in cabins and on balconies, too. There must be others as well.

[CtheW0rld]

NCL allows smoking in cabins and on balconies, too. There must be others as well.

 

ncl doesn't allow it anymore. for now, costa is the only choice left for me. fine, because i like costa.

 

"

MIAMI – August 09, 2011 - Norwegian Cruise Line today announced adjustments to its smoking policy for each of the line’s 11 Freestyle Cruising ships in response to changing guest preferences. Effective January 2012, guests setting sail on a Norwegian cruise vacation are no longer permitted to smoke cigarettes in their staterooms. Guests who are in a balcony stateroom will be permitted to smoke on the outside balcony; however, cigar and pipe smoking in staterooms and on balconies is prohibited. Ashtrays will be available for use upon request through housekeeping staff.

 

In an effort to diminish the presence of smoke indoors, cigarette smoking is only permitted in the casino, where ashtrays and appropriate signage will be displayed. Smoking is prohibited in all other public interior venues including all bars, restaurants, conference rooms, corridors, restrooms, staircases and landings. Guests may utilize the enclosed cigar bars on board Norwegian Epic, Norwegian Gem, Norwegian Pearl, Norwegian Dawn and Norwegian Spirit for cigarette, cigar and pipe smoking.

 

In addition, the policy allows guests to smoke cigarettes, cigars and pipes in outdoor public guest spaces and open decks, where designated by the appropriate signage. Smoking is not permitted near outdoor venues which serve food, in open spaces such as the jogging track, sport complex, children’s pool and in The Haven outdoor areas.

 

For more information on Norwegian’s updated smoking policy guests may consult their Freestyle Daily once on board the ship, or view the policy on the website at www.ncl.com.

 

To book a cruise vacation with Norwegian contact a travel professional, call Norwegian at 888-NCL-CRUISE (625-2784), or visit www.ncl.com."

Edited August 5, 2012 by CtheW0rld

[Uniall]

ncl doesn't allow it anymore. for now, costa is the only choice left for me. fine, because i like costa.

 

"

MIAMI – August 09, 2011 - Norwegian Cruise Line today announced adjustments to its smoking policy for each of the line’s 11 Freestyle Cruising ships in response to changing guest preferences. Effective January 2012, guests setting sail on a Norwegian cruise vacation are no longer permitted to smoke cigarettes in their staterooms. Guests who are in a balcony stateroom will be permitted to smoke on the outside balcony; however, cigar and pipe smoking in staterooms and on balconies is prohibited. Ashtrays will be available for use upon request through housekeeping staff.

 

In an effort to diminish the presence of smoke indoors, cigarette smoking is only permitted in the casino, where ashtrays and appropriate signage will be displayed. Smoking is prohibited in all other public interior venues including all bars, restaurants, conference rooms, corridors, restrooms, staircases and landings. Guests may utilize the enclosed cigar bars on board Norwegian Epic, Norwegian Gem, Norwegian Pearl, Norwegian Dawn and Norwegian Spirit for cigarette, cigar and pipe smoking.

 

In addition, the policy allows guests to smoke cigarettes, cigars and pipes in outdoor public guest spaces and open decks, where designated by the appropriate signage. Smoking is not permitted near outdoor venues which serve food, in open spaces such as the jogging track, sport complex, children’s pool and in The Haven outdoor areas.

 

For more information on Norwegian’s updated smoking policy guests may consult their Freestyle Daily once on board the ship, or view the policy on the website at www.ncl.com.

 

To book a cruise vacation with Norwegian contact a travel professional, call Norwegian at 888-NCL-CRUISE (625-2784), or visit www.ncl.com."

 

Wow, I did not know that. We quit smoking some time ago but have no problem with smoking being permitted in cabins or balconies.

[sidari]

Balconies no problem but the enclosed space of a cabin! No ... :)

 

you cannot expect cruise lines to tell people that they cannot use Irons in cabins and then allow them to smoke in there! i think the Star Princess should have been enough of a warning though that was through carelessness.

 

For those of you with Facebook there is a photo of Concordia with the rock removed posted by the last salute people.

Edited August 5, 2012 by sidari

[DocF]

Thanks for the update re: rock removal photo. There is so much happening on both sides of the hulk right now that it is hard to keep up. I imagine the activity level will continue to ramp up and we should be seeing the sponsons arriving soon.

 

Doc

[sidari]

Doc .... The sponsons are being made at a few Fincantieri yards.

[Tonka's Skipper]

Thanks for the update re: rock removal photo. There is so much happening on both sides of the hulk right now that it is hard to keep up. I imagine the activity level will continue to ramp up and we should be seeing the sponsons arriving soon.

 

Doc

 

 

Morning Doc,

 

I have not seen any barges or a boom offshore for awhile? Any idea if they are doing anything more then the rock?

 

I do agree the prebuilt sections of the offshore sponsons will likely be arriving or maybe the prebuilt sections of the underwater plaform. The only reasons I think it maybe the underwater sections first is that the sponsons may be in the way of positioning the platform.

 

AKK

[CostaSmurfette]

I'll be glad when the hull has been removed and life can return to normal again....I doubt many of the people on Giglio will miss that hull or the frenzy surrounding it too.

 

I can see at least 4-8 of the below potential causes being cited.....

 

Human error by one and/or more personnel on the bridge.

An over-reliance on technology/instrumentation.

Inability or unwillingness to question orders or direction between officers & crew on the bridge.

Inaccuracy of paper charting (as proven in 2007 with Sea Diamond).

Unreliability of instrumentation by design flaw, technical breakdown and/or poor training in its usage.

Complacency throughout the cruise industry regarding the "it'll never happen to us" syndrome.

Potentially fatal design flaws in the construction, design and general day to day running of the vessel.

 

Another aspect that requires more than a cursory look is that of officers duty hours and if any member of the bridge crew were suffering from fatigue at the time of the accident.

 

Hours logging is something that must be done and mariners have a set number of hours that they must by law have off duty, these hours are logged, again by law, in the crew logbooks and usually on a laptop or other hardrive type device.

 

A couple of years ago a Captain and First Officer aboard a high end cruise ship (Silversea) were found to have falsified their duty hour entries, it was discovered during a routine inspection at a UK port and both were duly replaced by the cruise line and placed on administrative leave.

 

So this is another area that will inevitably go under the microscope, not just to make sure that all officers abided by the duty rules but to also see if any changes need to be made across the shipping industry as a whole in regard to the length of duty hours and the logging of each crewmember's duty time.

 

All the above have been suffered by the airline industry, all of which have cost thousands of lives, all of which were identified too late as potential problems on the flightdeck....the same problems have also been identified in shipping accidents but so far not acted upon industry wide, unlike in aviation where all have been accepted as failures in the safe running of aircraft.

 

Fincantieri design decent enough ships, the problem lies with the unit cost to the customer. Many of these ships are ordered years in advance of their construction and at a set price which is agreed with the customer when the contract to build is inked.

 

Steel costs will always be factored into the end unit price, along with a reasonable estimate of running costs (physics...weight/displacement = $ in fuel etc).

 

To build a full double bottom instead of the industry standard semi-full double bottom costs money...both in construction and running costs...plus it adds a certain amount of time to the actual time taken to build the ship. Look at Queen Elizabeth, a Vista 2 class, took 6 months from keel laying to fitting out & delivery.

 

It isn't Fincantieri at fault here, well not them alone, anyway. Over the last 10 years the cruise lines have had big fat orderbooks and they wanted their ships finished yesterday so that they could play the proverbial "biggest & best" game tween themselves.

 

The trouble is that when you build ships off the conveyerbelt, it can come with a price...a price that is often never factored into the finished article, that being the price of what happenes when everything goes wrong...enter Concordia and, to a lesser degree, Titanic.

 

Everything built has a redundancy factored into it...the problems lie where that redundancy is squeezed by using the same footprint and equipment but extending it without upgrading the grass root technology and machinery to handle that extention.

 

In the Concordia case, there are alot of variables to consider before making a definitive cause for the accident, it is completely unlikely (except in the media and in the imaginations of the armchair experts) that just one of the above causes was the primary cause or even the only cause.

 

The over reliance on technology, the unreliability of that technology, the paper charting found to be out of date, the inability for personnel to vocalise disquiet or question an action is well documented...as are cases of human error by one or more people, which in itself is combined with the inability to vocalise against another officer if one or more feel a decision was wrong for fear of being belittled or disbelieved.

 

There are way too many factors and angles that have to be looked at and checked before anyone can come up with that definitive cause or causes. Francesco Schettino is a very small part of a much larger jigsaw picture that needs to be put together carefully and correctly...and that will inevitably take time to complete.

 

Hopefully the cruise industry - if not the entire shipping industry - will now act on these well known and documented failures so that accidents like Concordia can never ever happen again in the future.