Pauline Frommer Said Costa Is Doomed......

[Keel Haul]

Perhaps, but this is only one incident. If the line had a horrendous track record, then it would be easier to rebrand. But Costa does not. As I said, this is a major blip, but not a brand destroying one.

you can like all of us guess, but with the advent of the Italian Judge starting to investigate the performance of Costa's land based management and the hearing on March 3rd.IMO the blips that will emanate from the criminal case will be to costly to protect the brand name.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/jul/07/news-of-the-world-rupert-murdoch

[KatetheWanderer]

Nah Frommers is like reading a tabloid !!! Well travelled people read 'Baedekers'. I never go anywhere without my 1st edition

 

rgds

 

Couldn't agree more, Baedeckers is the best. Frommers churns out generic guides on everything. Pauline Frommer cites precious little support for her prediction. As a travel writer from a fairly average guide company, Pauline has blah-blah-blah time on CNN as a contributor and some other outlets. Being heir to the Frommers' travel guide dynasty, she has to come up with something relevant to say about the latest big news in travel.

 

Her opinion is about as earth shaking as any of ours on this board. Frommers has not reviewed but two of the Costa ships because as it explains, those are the only two with American itineraries at press time. I doubt Pauline has her finger on the pulse of the European market which will determine Costa's fate. I don't sense the same level of hand wringing over this bump in Costa's long history among Europeans. They tend to travel beyond their comfort zones much more than the average American. It is not just a closer proximity that causes so many more Europeans to travel to Africa, for example. They seem more circumspect about this whole event. What was there on the Allegra, maybe a dozen Americans? I can certainly see Costa maybe pulling out of the American sailings until things quiet down.

 

It is interesting to note that the Frommers review of Costa including the Atlantica lavished much praise on the ship. The reviewer even loved the thin crust Italian style pizza with the wonderful cheese. Several posters on this board despise the Costa pizza because it isn't supersized with a mountain of toppings like some of the pizza chains do.

I tried to post the link to the Atlantica review from the Frommers site but it might be disabled as a competitor to this review board because it did not work. Maybe it is against guidelines for me to mention the Frommers review. If it is, my apologies to all.

[Capricruiser]

Sorry to disappoint Pauline Frommer and the Americans who would want a rebranding, but Costa will always be Costa IMO. If its image will continue to be tainted in North America the line could always drop the North American marketing and work just fine solely with Europe, South America and Asia.

[JLC@SD]

Just a thought but how many airlines have changed their names after they have had an aircraft crash ?

 

Airline example........Valujet became AirTan.

 

Infamous ship........Exon Valdez became the Exon Mediterranean.

[sidari]

So bookings may well be down but people are still booking with Costa as can be seen from various threads on the Costa boards, how many of the airlines involved in 9/11 rebranded? airflights were hit by massive reductions in flights taken but they have since recovered as will Costa.

[graphicguy]

As a marketing professional, Costa is a name that will take a generation to rebuild.

 

Better to rebrand. If there's one thing Carnival is good at, it's marketing. They need to rebrand each ship, preferably with a new registry.

 

Revamp the look of the ships as much as possible.

 

Maybe even give the ships a little reprieve from sailing the same itineraries.

 

Relaunch with big fanfare.

 

It would probably take about 2 years for the above to take place, but that's the only saving grace for a line that has had a fire (dead in the water), a shipwreck, a sinking, and a big question mark regarding the training (or lack thereof) of the upper level crews with the entire Carnival fleet.

[TLCOhio]

From USA TODAY this morning, they have this headline: "Italian crew to assess cause of Costa Allegra fire" with these highlights: "Costa Cruises said Wednesday that an investigation needs to be carried out before a determination is made as to whether the fire was an accident or set deliberately. Three planes with a seating capacity of at least 580 passengers were lined up to fly the passengers of the cruise ship Costa Allegra back. The first plane is tentatively scheduled to leave Thursday afternoon. Costa said passengers could choose to be flown to Italy, Germany or France. Passengers could also choose to stay in the Seychelles for up to two weeks, about the length the cruise was initially supposed to last. Costa would pay for the Seychelles stay."

 

Full story at:

http://travel.usatoday.com/cruises/story/2012-02-29/Passengers-on-disabled-cruise-ship-to-fly-to-Rome/53298918/1

 

Terry in Ohio

 

Did a June 7-19, 2011, Solstice cruise from Barcelona that had stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Enjoyed great weather and a wonderful trip. Dozens of wonderful visuals with key highlights, tips, comments, etc., on these postings. We are now at 67,273 views for this live/blog re-cap on our first sailing with Celebrity and much on wonderful Barcelona. Check these postings and added info at:

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

[Esprit]

Sorry to disappoint Pauline Frommer and the Americans who would want a rebranding, but Costa will always be Costa IMO. If its image will continue to be tainted in North America the line could always drop the North American marketing and work just fine solely with Europe, South America and Asia.

 

I agree.

 

Lancia cars gained an awful reputation here in the UK so the Italian car maker stopped selling them here. They are as popular as ever in Italy and the rest of Europe. Perhaps because there is less rainfall in the Med' countries so rust isn't the issue that gave them the bad name here

[Ratt]

It would probably take about 2 years for the above to take place, but that's the only saving grace for a line that has had a fire (dead in the water), a shipwreck, a sinking, and a big question mark regarding the training (or lack thereof) of the upper level crews with the entire Carnival fleet.

 

So are you saying that the entire Carnival fleet needs to be rebranded?

 

I don't think re-branding will happen. While Costa is taking a hit to the number of bookings, they still have a pretty decent following and if they did re-brand they will not want to associate the new brand with Costa in any way so that would leave the current Costa fans high and dry. That to me would be much worse than rebuilding their rep. I think in two to three years (if that long) Costa will be back where it was when this started.

[Capricruiser]

If Carnival Corp. attempted to rebrand Costa, half of Italy would rise up in arms. Costa is an Italian namesake like Fiat, regardless of who currently owns the company. The majority of Italian cruisers choose Costa over the other Italian line, MSC, and very few cruise with Carnival, RCCL, Celebrity, etc. My contacts in the Italian travel business say that Costa bookings, at least in Italy, are as strong as ever even though there was a slump right after the Concordia incident.

[chrispb]

Never heard of this Frommer person but there again if she only writes about the US and the Caribbean then I wouldn't, would I?? Without a crystal ball then she's only speculating much as the people on this thread are doing.

 

Ever heard the saying "a rose by any other name" ? Let's suppose that McDonalds for whatever reason decided to rebrand - we'd all know it was still McD's so it would be a pointless exercise. Unless the powers that be think the general cruising public is stupid.

 

Personally, I hope they keep the name. Apart from the Concordia incident, the other events have happened with other lines although they wouldn't have had the Somalian pirates to contend with (but neither has Allegra as yet).

[chrispb]

Nope, not a connection ... but an interesting piece of history was my point. Especially the sacrifice made to their fleet during WWI.

 

Take care.

 

Just another point of interest, Cunard also lost the Atlantic Conveyor (a merchant ship) during the Falklands war :cool: sadly with a number of lives lost.

[highcbob]

If it doesn't remain as a brand, I can't imagine it would be renamed Carnival or similar. Could they perhaps reinvigorate one of the old Italian cruise brands like Sitmar?

 

It would be a shame to lose the European identity.

 

Oh wow, Sitmar, there you go. Just repaint the funnel from a C to 'V'.

[Davyjonesrugrat]

" dooomed"- supersticious nonsens. Costa re named- i dout it. As soon as the Concordia has completley dissapeared from that little Island, the incident slips into " history" ! Airlines surived also after plain crash´s with far more people dead.

Yes but aircraft crashes, in the majority, were due to onboard technical difficulties/problems. The Costa Concordia was due to a Rogue Captain, trying to impress people ashore and his floozy !!!

 

The aircraft/Costa incidents bear no relationship in any form !!

 

regards

:D

[Davyjonesrugrat]

Sorry to disappoint Pauline Frommer and the Americans who would want a rebranding, but Costa will always be Costa IMO. If its image will continue to be tainted in North America the line could always drop the North American marketing and work just fine solely with Europe, South America and Asia.

I think rebranding will be necessary to repair the damaged caused.

 

I, for one, do not agree, Costa will be affected by this in the European market, there were a mixed range of nationalities onboard during the incident. The branded is more than tainted is in freefall.

 

Oh by the way Im a European !!

 

rgds

[Davyjonesrugrat]

If Carnival Corp. attempted to rebrand Costa, half of Italy would rise up in arms. Costa is an Italian namesake like Fiat, regardless of who currently owns the company. The majority of Italian cruisers choose Costa over the other Italian line, MSC, and very few cruise with Carnival, RCCL, Celebrity, etc. My contacts in the Italian travel business say that Costa bookings, at least in Italy, are as strong as ever even though there was a slump right after the Concordia incident.

The other half are in shock that their national product has been blimped by a rogue Captain. I have read posts on here made by Italian members who have voiced their displeasure over Costa. The National italian press were slating the Costa corporation and we still await the legal aspect to start.

 

With the Rogue Captain already admitting that he had previously undertaken sail bys with the approval of Costa management where they had earlier denied it means that a lot more 'dirt' is likely to arise.

 

If the Costa management are found as guilty as the Captain through the fact that they allowed these sail bys to take place then they could be done for manslaughter. Do you then feel that the Italian population want to have a company like Costa to fly their flag, I dont think they will.

 

No I feel a re-brand is likely !

 

rgds

:)

[chrispb]

Changed names? No, but after the Lockerbee tragedy, a decline in passenger numbers was instrumental in finishing off Pan Am. It wasn't the only reason, but it was a major contributing factor to Pan Am's demise.

 

But American Airlines are still flying after 9/11 when many more lives were lost than Locherbie.

[KatetheWanderer]

As a marketing professional, Costa is a name that will take a generation to rebuild.

 

Better to rebrand. If there's one thing Carnival is good at, it's marketing. They need to rebrand each ship, preferably with a new registry.

 

Revamp the look of the ships as much as possible.

 

Maybe even give the ships a little reprieve from sailing the same itineraries.

 

Relaunch with big fanfare.

 

It would probably take about 2 years for the above to take place, but that's the only saving grace for a line that has had a fire (dead in the water), a shipwreck, a sinking, and a big question mark regarding the training (or lack thereof) of the upper level crews with the entire Carnival fleet.

 

Rebranding could cost years of rebuilding a huge clientele that Costa already has that return for cruise after cruise. Most of its clientele is Italian and most are repeat cruisers. These cruisers are still booking their cruises. Engine fires on ships and the occasional stranding are not unique to Costa. Experienced cruisers know that and they also know that what happened on the Concordia was an aberration in an otherwise safe line in an otherwise safe industry. How Costa handles the Allegra in terms of taking care of the passengers and giving them great comps and service to make up for the engine fire could go along way to redeeming the brand according to industry analysts. The experienced cruisers will likely keep Costa afloat.

 

"No, not the end for Costa, which has operating passenger ships for over 60 years," Douglas Ward, author of the 2012 Berlitz Guide to Cruising & Cruise Ships, said in an email from a ship off the Australian coast. "But the relentless media spotlight may dilute the brand and perhaps the number of ships in fleet."

 

"In Italy alone, Costa contributed euro2.2 billion ($3 billion) to the economy in 2010 through tourism, shipbuilding, shipboard suppliers and other related spending, according to a study by Milan Polytechnic."

 

"Bookings on Costa dropped some 30 percent after the Concordia, and are down around 22 to 25 percent in the wake of the Allegra's generator fire on Feb. 27, said Roberto Corbella, president of Italy's tour operator industry group. But he said the early estimates are not reliable and can pick up at any time. The impact on Costa bookings during the critical first quarter — when most high-season cruises are booked — will only be known next week when Carnival releases its results."

 

"We have seen that longtime cruise-goers are unfazed, they continue to make reservations. It is the first-time cruise-goer who is waiting to reserve until they feel more confident," Corbella said.

 

 

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jIadDmuGcB72MVRdtkgVbARlU4vQ?docId=38340e3c1ac2456185301c61d317d507

[tntornadox]

I personally think Douglas Ward's opinion holds much more weight than Pauline Frommer's... all he does is cruise ships and knows alot about the industry in general whereas Frommer's has a guide book for everything.

[graphicguy]

VICTORIA, Seychelles – A disabled cruise ship will spend an extra 10 to 12 hours at sea without electricity, air conditioning or toilet facilities because a French fishing vessel that was first to respond to the drifting cruiser refused to give way to faster tug boats, a Seychelles government official said Wednesday.

 

Joel Morgan told The Associated Press that the cruise ship Costa Allegra likely would have arrived in port Wednesday night local time if the tugs had been allowed to take over. Instead the ship is not scheduled to reach port until midmorning Thursday.

 

"The Seychelles authorities are not happy about this situation and we would have wished to get the ship into port as soon as possible in order to ensure the safety and well-being of the passengers," said Morgan, Seychelles minister of home affairs, environment, transport and energy.

 

TLC...thanks for the link. This is the most damning part against Costa. Their dollars once again came before the safety of their passengers and crew.

 

I suspect Costa's actions with the Concordia, once known, will have the same flavor.

 

This is why it would be wise for Costa/Carnival to rebrand Costa, and rename/remake the ships.

[Blondie008]

But American Airlines are still flying after 9/11 when many more lives were lost than Locherbie.

 

Girlo, I know you're Welsh, and I wont proclaim to be able to correct your words,(hell I wouldnt even try - harder than Gaelic) but as a native of the same region, can I just point out to you and stowaway, that its "Lockerbie" :p

The per'wee toon o' Lockerbie, was the only thing that ever put it on a map :(

 

Cant be long now??? You packed yet?? :D

[Vampire Parrot]

If the Costa management are found as guilty as the Captain through the fact that they allowed these sail bys to take place then they could be done for manslaughter.

Something the Accident Investigation Board will be taking into account are the previous sail bys by Costa. A sail by without a proper passage plan - and the Feb 13th sail did not have a passage plan - is a recipe for disaster. A sail by, if properly planned, is safe. A properly planned sail by is no more dangerous than taking a ship out of Southampton or taking a ship up a Fjord.

 

Was the August sail by properly planned? Was there a passage plan? I don't know. That's for the Accident Investigation Board to find out. If there was then fine. But if there wasn't a passage plan.... well this is another part of the Accident Investigation report that will make interesting reading. If there wasn't a passage plan in August, if sail bys without passage plans took place... well, I know nothing about the Italian legal system but morally, manslaughter charges may be appropriate.

 

VP

[Ratt]

VICTORIA, Seychelles – A disabled cruise ship will spend an extra 10 to 12 hours at sea without electricity, air conditioning or toilet facilities because a French fishing vessel that was first to respond to the drifting cruiser refused to give way to faster tug boats, a Seychelles government official said Wednesday.

 

Joel Morgan told The Associated Press that the cruise ship Costa Allegra likely would have arrived in port Wednesday night local time if the tugs had been allowed to take over. Instead the ship is not scheduled to reach port until midmorning Thursday.

 

"The Seychelles authorities are not happy about this situation and we would have wished to get the ship into port as soon as possible in order to ensure the safety and well-being of the passengers," said Morgan, Seychelles minister of home affairs, environment, transport and energy.

 

TLC...thanks for the link. This is the most damning part against Costa. Their dollars once again came before the safety of their passengers and crew.

 

I suspect Costa's actions with the Concordia, once known, will have the same flavor.

 

This is why it would be wise for Costa/Carnival to rebrand Costa, and rename/remake the ships.

 

Why is it damning and what evidence do you have that dollars come before safety? As far as I've seen Costa was in compliance with all safety regulations. The sail-by might now be considered dangerous but I find it very hard to believe that the people outside of Costa that are in positions of authority who are no saying it was reckless and should never have been done, had no knowledge of it being done in the past.

 

Re-brandning will do nothing but tick off the people who still like and want to sail on Costa which is still a large number of people. Costa has made some mistakes but they will get past it.

[Capricruiser]

If you check out many itineraries in the Costa catalogue or on the website (Italian), you'll see the term "navigazione turistica" which translates to "sail-by." It's usually used in the proximity of an island or narrow straits, and all it means is the ship will pass closely by the coast.

That said, "closely by" means the authorized route which is the safe one. Unfortunately such was apparently not the case with the Concordia on 13 January.

[Becks200200]

Costa/Carnival have done a good job of presenting this as a "rogue captain" problem and the public isn't seeing it as a root and branch problem within the company or across cruise lines. Their problems would have migrated to every cruise company if people were believing that all captains were huge risk takers and that it was unsafe to cruise as your holiday.

 

They've done a great job of isolating the captain and I think this will ultimately save the company. It's not my bag but people love what Costa do and before this year it seems to have been a successful brand.