Nieuw-Amsterdam denied entry Casablanca port.

[IRL_Joanie]

I sure don't understand your post at all.

 

One minute you are all for respecting the prime religion of the Middle East, the next minute it is baby steps, baby step for CHANGE.

 

You can't have it both ways. And the Middle East is going BACKWARDS very, very rapidly. I have spent 19-20 months in the last 5 years living and working in the Middle East. As long as you have the heavy arm of the Imams and radical fundamentalists exerting their presence, there will be no DEMOCRACY as we know it and NO CHANGE.

Sorry if my 2 posts have you confused as to my meanings, thoughts.

 

I want a change!! Believe me I do And I want it now!!! However, I believe it will take Baby Steps to make the changes that are so much needed.

 

We cannot just force our will, dictates, economic hardships, whatever, upon peoples of another country because they are wrong in our eyes in their religious belief(s).

 

We can convince them with steadfast resolve and perseverance over time and with gentle handling (cannot think of a better word...) of the situation.

 

Look at how every nation/country on this earth has their minorities, whom we treat differently than we treat those of our own....persuasion... Trying to be diplomatic here and not ruffle to many feathers....

 

Here in the US of A on this beautiful 4th of July as we celebrate the Birth/Freedom of our Country, we can sit back and think on every single human in this Great Land that has the freedom to read, write, pray, speak out for themselves and others, to be who they are. HOW many years did this take?? How many wars were fought for those rights that we so dearly cherish?? How many decades did it take once the Civil War was won did it take for specific a minority to have the right to walk into a public bathroom at will or ride in the front of a bus? How many lives were lost once we, the people of the US of A started realizing that we were wrong. It was not a religious matter of right and wrong there, it was a moral aspect, which makes a difference.

 

We can change our moral aspects and thoughts a hell of a lot easier/faster than we can our religious beliefs.

 

When it comes to moral aspects of right and wrong we can jump in wholeheartedly and scream for justice.

 

When it comes to Religious aspects of right and wrong we have to take Baby Steps and not force our beliefs down another religion.

 

Joanie

[pmacher61]

Quotation of the day (from today's NYT):

Democracy isn't only about casting votes; it's about building a democratic infrastructure. We put the cart in front of the horse."[/i]

TAHANI EL-GEBALI, deputy president of Egypt's Supreme Constitutional Court, on her discussions with the country's military about ceding power to civilians.

And the Middle East is going BACKWARDS very, very rapidly. I have spent 19-20 months in the last 5 years living and working in the Middle East. As long as you have the heavy arm of the Imams and radical fundamentalists exerting their presence, there will be no DEMOCRACY as we know it and NO CHANGE.

[Democracy] as we know it is the key phrase. The President of Iran is popularly elected, but he has to lick the boot of the unelected Ayatollah. It is a theocracy masquerading as a democratic republic. In Egypt the elected President will have to be deferential to the military. To what extent and for how long is anyone's guess. What is certain is that to extent the imans and devout practioners of Islam (not radicals, but devout) wield power, there will be greater repression of the civil and human rights of non-Muslims, women, and gays. Saudi Arabia is a case in point.

[lovesublime]

Joanie, really? WWll was a waste and accomplished nothing? Really?

[arewethereyet]

LOL - This thread reminds me why this board should stick to cruise related topics. It started out as cruise related..... but then......

 

Time for the mods to pull the plug.

[pmacher61]

I do hope you get to ... learn some of the advantages women have under Islamic constitutional law that are not exercised in many western countries.

I asked if you could give some exmples of these advantages and you must have overlooked the request because you haven't provided an answer.

 

Good time to review board posting guidelines.

 

Gee whiz, we wouldn't want to remove this thread before you answer the question previously posed to you to give some examples of the advantages women have in Islamic law (Sharia) countries.

Besides what is it about the simple statement that there should be no tolerance for intolerance that seems to upset you?

[pmacher61]

LOL - This thread reminds me why this board should stick to cruise related topics. It started out as cruise related..... but then......

 

Time for the mods to pull the plug.

...But then it got into something infinitely more important so some people want to avoid the discussion. That's fine, but what about those that want to discuss whether we should spend our cruise vacation $ in Morocco in light of this incident and what we have learned about Morocco? No one has forced you to participate. Just say good bye and bow out.

p.s. LOL

[Sea42]

LOL - This thread reminds me why this board should stick to cruise related topics. It started out as cruise related..... but then......

 

Time for the mods to pull the plug.

They must be on vacation!:D

[greatam]

They must be on vacation!:D

 

Did this thread NOT start about the gay charter being denied entry into Morocco??? And there have been many explanations, quite a few blaming the government of Morocco, not even realizing that RSVP/HAL put the ship, its passengers and people on the ground in danger.

 

It is truly sad that on this 4th of July, we (Americans) who truly believe in controlling our own destiny, have the idea that is OK to IMPOSE our culture and mores on those who don't be believe what we do. Isn't that what we fought the Revolution for-to get away from another country imposing their culture and values on us??? What gives the US the right to try to make everyone in our image? Sounds like the church my friend took me to last year-they FIRMLY believe that if they pray hard enough that Jews will become Christians.

 

I hate to say it but after spending almost 1/2 of the last 5 years living and working in the Middle East, our American values, which we hold so high, are truly the basis for the war on terror.

[andyandsue]

Straight people travel on gay cruises too. We have met several over the years.

 

 

I want to go on a gay cruise! Sounds like amazing fun to me! :)