Why We Left NCL?

[che5904]

Someone a few posts back said they were happy this thread hadn't gotten personal. So was I. I thought my original post explained things very clearly, and was looking for another option from NCL that would please everyone and still allow us to sail NCL - I flamed no one.

 

The point that you seemed to have missed in most the rest of the posts is that NCL has TRIED numerous times to please everyone. Since at least 2007 NCL has continually cut back the areas in which their passengers can smoke. Does that please the pro-no-smokers (non-smoker extremists)...no. Does it even seem to please the ones between non-smokers who have learned to get along with limited smoking areas and the extremists...no. The problem is that there appears to be no pleasing these people no matter how much it is cut back. It has been stated over and over that blocking cabins on a ship would not work for various reasons. So that leaves it to, there is no solution except for people to decide what is a priority choice when booking.

 

No you did not get flamed much but most smoking threads the OP doesn't. I spend a lot of time on smoking threads because it appears that for too long the pro-no-smokers have yelled and been the only ones heard and gotten there way to push us to tiny little time-out corners, or in the case of NCL to 4% of the entire ship (which obviously isn't small enough corner for some who still want it smaller). It is time the smoker got heard to say enough is enough.

 

IMO this thread has not gotten out of hand for 2 reasons. One the pro-no-smokers have kept the insults of people who smoke to a minimum and have not did their usual name calling and treating people who smoke as non-human. Two the smokers have not painted all non-smokers with the same brush.

 

All it takes is one of those things to happen and the opposite group go off.

[che5904]

Someone a few posts back said they were happy this thread hadn't gotten personal. So was I. I thought my original post explained things very clearly, and was looking for another option from NCL that would please everyone and still allow us to sail NCL - I flamed no one.

Looks like everyone else understood that; and we almost made it to 100 posts...

 

The point that you seemed to have missed in most the rest of the posts is that NCL has TRIED numerous times to please everyone. Since at least 2007 NCL has continually cut back the areas in which their passengers can smoke. Does that please the pro-no-smokers (non-smoker extremists)...no. Does it even seem to please the ones between non-smokers who have learned to get along with limited smoking areas and the extremists...no. The problem is that there appears to be no pleasing these people no matter how much it is cut back. It has been stated over and over that blocking cabins on a ship would not work for various reasons. So that leaves it to, there is no solution except for people to decide what is a priority choice when booking.

 

No you did not get flamed much but most smoking threads the OP doesn't. I spend a lot of time on smoking threads because it appears that for too long the pro-no-smokers have yelled and been the only ones heard and gotten there way to push us to tiny little time-out corners, or in the case of NCL to 4% of the entire ship (which obviously isn't small enough corner for some who still want it smaller). It is time the smoker got heard to say enough is enough.

 

IMO this thread has not gotten out of hand for 2 reasons. One the pro-no-smokers have kept the insults of people who smoke to a minimum and have not did their usual name calling and treating people who smoke as non-human. Two the smokers have not painted all non-smokers with the same brush.

 

All it takes is one of those things to happen and the opposite group go off.

 

Further more since my time ran out.

Again IMO do these smoking threads accomplish anything...no. You may think starting this thread that NCL will hear that you are now leaving them because of this, in hopes this will make an impact. But I'm sure they factor that in their decisions that they will lose some and gain others. If NCL stopped balcony smoking or blocked cabins to force me to book too far in advance they would lose me. And trust me considering that my cabin is comped by the casino, I have spent a pile more than the 3K you have for your cabin with my gambling and my upgrade. Do they care if either one of us leave, sure they do but since the ships sail full or almost full every time they go out they aren't going to make that decision based on either one of us being unhappy and threatening to leave.

[Cloudyrain]

It takes approximately 5 minutes to smoke a cigarette. A person who is your average smoker has about 20 a day. That's an hour and 40 minutes per day that someone could be so incredibly offended by the smell they couldn't possibly sit on their balcony without choking. BUT that's 23 hours and 20 minutes that remains smoke free. If a person is a heavy 40 a day smoker there's still over 20 hours a day remaining smoke free.

 

Oh, and this "everyone around me smoking": unless you are in some freakish weather conditions there's little chance of people smoking on all sides finding their smoke ending in your balcony.

 

There have been some very valid points made in this thread, though I am beginning to wonder why I bothered to join in, it's seems "mountains and mole hills" would be quite an appropriate sub-heading!

[che5904]

It takes approximately 5 minutes to smoke a cigarette. A person who is your average smoker has about 20 a day. That's an hour and 40 minutes per day that someone could be so incredibly offended by the smell they couldn't possibly sit on their balcony without choking. BUT that's 23 hours and 20 minutes that remains smoke free. If a person is a heavy 40 a day smoker there's still over 20 hours a day remaining smoke free.

 

Oh, and this "everyone around me smoking": unless you are in some freakish weather conditions there's little chance of people smoking on all sides finding their smoke ending in your balcony.

 

There have been some very valid points made in this thread, though I am beginning to wonder why I bothered to join in, it's seems "mountains and mole hills" would be quite an appropriate sub-heading!

 

:D :D Your post is much too logical for this type of thread. ;)

[jolgro]

If you want 100% sure there are no smokers next to you. Don,t book NCL. It is that simple. One off the reasons we book a balcony suite with NCL is because my husband is a smoker. And when he is smoking on the balcony he does nothing wrong. Yes you can be in the room next to us. But hey you can have a baby that cries all night.

If you want to, there can always be things to complain about. Relax your on vacation. Btw we europeans are not that " agressive" with our smoking policy. You cannot smoke inside most areas, but outside ( like an NCL balcony) is no problem.

So come and spend your holiday in europe, our economy can need it:D:D

[4774Papa]

As a nonsmoker, I try to avoid second hand smoke as much as possible. I still will probably book NCL in the future, depending on the itinerary.

NCL has the right to set the policy and customers deal with that policy as they see fit. I have occasionally experienced second hand smoke on our balcony, but it was not for the entire day.

If it gets so bad that it harms my enjoyment of the balcony, I will not likely book NCL again.

[crewser1]

If you want 100% sure there are no smokers next to you. Don,t book NCL. It is that simple.

 

You are absolutely correct. But it is not as simple as you may think for those who take more into consideration other than whether the cruise line is smoking or non-smoking. If I want to take the wife and two teenagers on a cruise to Bermuda out of the Northeast that fits our schedule, NCL is the dominant player. X has one out of N.J. as well, but then I factor in ship, teenager fun, etc. I have only been on one other cruise (Princess) and thoroughly enjoyed it. However, this thread did remind me that the cabin next to us had smokers, but it was only a minor nuisance. I have a deposit on a Breakaway balcony cabin to Bermuda next spring not even considering the smoking thing. I'll discuss with my family and gauge the importance of going non-smoking vs a smoking line with all of the other factors (like a brand new ship!). Also, from some of the posts I've read where folks switched to NCL because of their more relaxed policy, there may be an increased chance a non-smoker will experience 2nd hand smoke on NCL. The cruise line policy is what it is and people certainly have a right to smoke, but IMO anyone who books a cruise needs to do so based on all cruise factors and their personal priorities.

[softsands]

IMO booking a balcony cabin on a ship that allows smoking on their balconies, and then complaining about the smoke. Is akin to renting an apartment over fish store and complaining about the smell of fish.

 

If smoke may bother you from your neighbor smoking on their balcony, then don't get a balcony cabin. If the balcony is important to you, choose another line.

 

OP I think you made a wise move in choosing another line that suits your needs by prioritizing what is important to you.

 

Funny thing about life is we can't get everything we want, we have to choose to prioritize.

 

Yeah, well, you know what? Smoking will be gone from all ship lines' balconies inside of 5 years. Long overdue. And, then, it won't have to be a choice.

[che5904]

You are absolutely correct. But it is not as simple as you may think for those who take more into consideration other than whether the cruise line is smoking or non-smoking.

The cruise line policy is what it is and people certainly have a right to smoke, but IMO anyone who books a cruise needs to do so based on all cruise factors and their personal priorities.

 

You seemed to miss the point in the 2nd sentence and then grasp in your last sentence.

 

I don't think anyone is saying that smoking vs non-smoking policy is the only consideration that should be given in choosing your cruiseline.

 

Since life is not full of everything that suits you to a tee and every cruiseline will not have everything your way. It is a matter of prioritizing your choices. Therefore if your #1 priority is smoking then "if you want 100% sure there are not smokers next to you. Don't book NCL. It is that simple" as that poster said. It would be no different than if I wanted to be 100% sure that I would have strangers to eat with at dinner and the same waiter, I wouldn't book NCL.

 

The problem, as I see it, is that many posters write "it completely ruined my vacation". That being the case, this seems to me that this would be #1 priority choice, if I knew before hand that the chance of this happening would ruin my vacation.

 

.

[che5904]

Yeah, well, you know what? Smoking will be gone from all ship lines' balconies inside of 5 years. Long overdue. And, then, it won't have to be a choice.

 

If you choose to believe that, then believe it. I could be run over by a truck within 5 years time. Sorry not worried that far down the road.

[Beaver1975]

Absolutely not. The data show that only about 20% of US residents are smokers...the same is true for Canadian residents.

 

I'm not parsing anything. You apparently don't understand some relatively simple mathematical concepts. I have no need to feel smarter than everyone around, but you're spreading misinformation and it should be corrected so that it doesn't propagate further misinformation.

 

I bow to your superior intellect. NOT!!

 

The simple fact is that the person in the cabin next to you is either a smoker or not a smoker. 50/50

 

Now if you want to calculate the proportion of smokers on any given sailing you can look at the percentage of smokers that exist and then calculate the percentage of those that cruise. Now, let us not limit our percentages to North America as we know smoking is much more prevalent in other parts of the world and those people cruise too. Let us not forget to determine if the person is male or female as that skews the percentages also. We can also look at the time of year the cruise might be sailing and that would also determine the type of clientele that might book during that time of year. Now we have all of this calculated and have determined the percentage of smokers on any given sailing. Now to calculate the possibilities that one of those smokers or non smoker books the cabin next to your is very simple...either they are a smoker or not a smoker...50/50. Who books a cabin next to you has very little to do with your statistics of how many smokers are on a given ship. But, if you want to start looking at proximities that is whole nuther Oprah.

 

As for not understanding simple mathematical concepts, my engineering professors would differ with you.

 

Have a good day.

 

Until we tangle horns again, buh bye.

 

John

[valleyvillage]

If you choose to believe that, then believe it. I could be run over by a truck within 5 years time. Sorry not worried that far down the road.

 

Canadians are simply too sensible for this sort of thread!;)

[softsands]

If you choose to believe that, then believe it. I could be run over by a truck within 5 years time. Sorry not worried that far down the road.

 

Hmmmm...Maybe I'll be sailing NCL sooner than 5 years out.

[Beaver1975]

Hmmmm...Maybe I'll be sailing NCL sooner than 5 years out.

 

You are going there? Really?

 

I guess there is always someone that needs to take a thread to the nasty level. :(

 

John

[divergirl63]

First off, please indulge us and try not to flame; we are posting this hoping that someone from Norwegian actually reads these threads.

As you can see from our signature, our trips to our favorite island have varied only in the cruise-line: either X or NCL, over time we've gone back and forth. In retrospect, even with the occasional hmm, we obviously enjoyed NCL and the Dawn:

- Even from PA, we especially loved NCL's Manhattan embarkation - never had a problem driving in, parking, and/or leaving.

- Even with some obligatory dings, the Dawn (and I suspect the cruise line) is maintained very well, and the crew members, if sometimes tired, were generally at least friendly and helpful.

- The many dining options on the Dawn, from so-so to excellent, we could always find something worthwhile.

- The entertainment was very good - there always seemed to be music everywhere you went. In addition to the very talented (if stretched) resident party band, we enjoyed Jose and Patti, Fire and Ice... (This year, unfortunately, at least on the Star the entertainment appears to have been cut back...).

Now. When the Dawn shifted to Boston, we looked at the Star, but decided to give X a try. Without getting into subjective differences, other than entertainment, the clincher for us with Celebrity is the non-smoking policy. NCL's new policy stipulates smokers can only do so on one part of the upper deck - or on their balcony; a minor inconvenience for those who smoke, but for those next door? I'm a former smoker and generally believe in live and let live, BUT:

If we spend $3K of our vacation money to pay for the balcony room we love so much, what happens when our NCL neighbor(s) smoke like chimneys, and we can't even open our sliding doors? And we found it does happen.

Really? Can't one side/section of the ship be balcony-smoking optional?

We would book another NCL cruise in a heartbeat - especially the Breakaway (!!) - if we knew we wouldn't have to worry about our balcony being downwind of an ashtray. Is there really no answer to this?

Our two cents. Thanks.

I have only read this first post, so forgive me if this is mentioned on this thread later on. But the same is true on RCCL. We sailed the Jewel and the same thing happened to us. Never could open the balcony door because of the same thing. That was the first time I did experience that as we have had several balcony sailings. I like to enjoy breakfast some mornings on my balcony, but we could not on that cruise and it seemed like they were always in the cabin!

[e2011]

Why not accommodate everyone? Put the smoking cabins at the back of the ship so the smoke goes downwind and out to sea.

[wroughtironron]

I bow to your superior intellect. NOT!!

 

The simple fact is that the person in the cabin next to you is either a smoker or not a smoker. 50/50

 

Now if you want to calculate the proportion of smokers on any given sailing you can look at the percentage of smokers that exist and then calculate the percentage of those that cruise. Now, let us not limit our percentages to North America as we know smoking is much more prevalent in other parts of the world and those people cruise too. Let us not forget to determine if the person is male or female as that skews the percentages also. We can also look at the time of year the cruise might be sailing and that would also determine the type of clientele that might book during that time of year. Now we have all of this calculated and have determined the percentage of smokers on any given sailing. Now to calculate the possibilities that one of those smokers or non smoker books the cabin next to your is very simple...either they are a smoker or not a smoker...50/50. Who books a cabin next to you has very little to do with your statistics of how many smokers are on a given ship. But, if you want to start looking at proximities that is whole nuther Oprah.

 

As for not understanding simple mathematical concepts, my engineering professors would differ with you.

 

Have a good day.

 

Until we tangle horns again, buh bye.

 

John

 

A survey has shown that smoking is one of the leading causes of statistics.

[crewser1]

You seemed to miss the point in the 2nd sentence and then grasp in your last sentence.

 

I don't think anyone is saying that smoking vs non-smoking policy is the only consideration that should be given in choosing your cruiseline.

 

Since life is not full of everything that suits you to a tee and every cruiseline will not have everything your way. It is a matter of prioritizing your choices. Therefore if your #1 priority is smoking then "if you want 100% sure there are not smokers next to you. Don't book NCL. It is that simple" as that poster said. It would be no different than if I wanted to be 100% sure that I would have strangers to eat with at dinner and the same waiter, I wouldn't book NCL.

 

The problem, as I see it, is that many posters write "it completely ruined my vacation". That being the case, this seems to me that this would be #1 priority choice, if I knew before hand that the chance of this happening would ruin my vacation.

 

.

 

Reread my second sentence. How you can get "I don't think anyone is saying that smoking vs non-smoking policy is the only consideration that should be given in choosing your cruiseline" from what I actually said "But it is not as simple as you may think for those who take more into consideration other than whether the cruise line is smoking or non-smoking" is bewildering. But then again, you did miss the point of my post.

[che5904]

Why not accommodate everyone? Put the smoking cabins at the back of the ship so the smoke goes downwind and out to sea.

 

As logical as you may think that statement is. A post from page 2, argues that the best. You will find non-smokers and pro-no-smokers that always book the aft of the ship and therefore you would not accommodate "everyone". That the big problem is that no matter what NCL does they could not possibly accomodate everyone, since everyone wants something different.

 

 

Having a smoking side or deck won't work. Regardless of where a smoking area is designated, there's going to be a time when non-smokers are going to want to be in that spot. For even a moment, that exact place is going to be the single best spot on the ship.

[che5904]

Reread my second sentence. How you can get "I don't think anyone is saying that smoking vs non-smoking policy is the only consideration that should be given in choosing your cruiseline" from what I actually said "But it is not as simple as you may think for those who take more into consideration other than whether the cruise line is smoking or non-smoking" is bewildering.

 

I'll try to un-bewilder you. The poster wrote "if you want to be 100% sure" If you take everything else that most take into consideration (which is what you are saying) then you could not be 100% sure. If you need to be 100% sure on anything then you don't book the line that does not meet that criteria. Thats what makes it simple. Now if you are will to be <100% and just take your chances, then you can take the rest of your choices into consideration (as most of us do) then it gets more difficult a decision to make.

[Doughboy139]

Not completely true. We have been on aft balconies and we have been affected with people smoking on their aft balcony. Not just a cabin beside us but from one below us off to the side - a cigar smoking passenger. Not pleasant at all !!! Maybe someday the ship will be No smoking what-so-ever. I guess you can't please everyone.

[crewser1]

I'll try to un-bewilder you. The poster wrote "if you want to be 100% sure" If you take everything else that most take into consideration (which is what you are saying) then you could not be 100% sure. If you need to be 100% sure on anything then you don't book the line that does not meet that criteria. Thats what makes it simple. Now if you are will to be <100% and just take your chances, then you can take the rest of your choices into consideration (as most of us do) then it gets more difficult a decision to make.

 

Thanks for your unsuccessful attempt at un-bewildering me :rolleyes:. And, it really isn't worth engaging with you any longer. Being somewhat new to the CC boards, it hasn't taken me long to understand your modus operandi..........

[4774Papa]

I think it is time to stop beating the dead horse.

[njhorseman]

I bow to your superior intellect. NOT!!

 

The simple fact is that the person in the cabin next to you is either a smoker or not a smoker. 50/50

 

Now if you want to calculate the proportion of smokers on any given sailing you can look at the percentage of smokers that exist and then calculate the percentage of those that cruise. Now, let us not limit our percentages to North America as we know smoking is much more prevalent in other parts of the world and those people cruise too. Let us not forget to determine if the person is male or female as that skews the percentages also. We can also look at the time of year the cruise might be sailing and that would also determine the type of clientele that might book during that time of year. Now we have all of this calculated and have determined the percentage of smokers on any given sailing. Now to calculate the possibilities that one of those smokers or non smoker books the cabin next to your is very simple...either they are a smoker or not a smoker...50/50. Who books a cabin next to you has very little to do with your statistics of how many smokers are on a given ship. But, if you want to start looking at proximities that is whole nuther Oprah.

 

As for not understanding simple mathematical concepts, my engineering professors would differ with you.

 

Have a good day.

 

Until we tangle horns again, buh bye.

 

John

 

Most engineering professors I've known weren't very good mathematicians...in particular probability and statistics are unlikely areas of interest for most engineers. I took engineering courses too, but I would never claim to be an expert in any form of engineering because I did. ;)

 

You seem really hung on claims of "superior intellect" I never made. Superior knowledge of mathematics, yes...and this is a mathematics issue we're discussing.

 

PS: The difference in male vs female smoking percentage, 22 vs 17, isn't significant enough to have an effect on the likelihood of an adjacent cabin being occupied by a smoker...certainly not enough of an effect to bring your 50/50 claim into anything near reality. Besides, I'll wager that the majority of cabins are occupied by male/female couples...so the 20% average is still pretty good.

 

While people from almost everywhere take cruises, we are discussing NCL's smoking policy, and the vast majority of passengers on NCL ships are from the US and Canada.

[che5904]

Thanks for your unsuccessful attempt at un-bewildering me :rolleyes:. And, it really isn't worth engaging with you any longer. Being somewhat new to the CC boards, it hasn't taken me long to understand your modus operandi..........

 

Awwww, since I didn't take Latin in school, I actually had to google this one.

 

Now "Merriam-Webster", as far as I know, is a very reliable source for definitions.

There definition is as follows "a method of procedure; especially: a distinct pattern or method of operation that indicates or suggests the work of a single criminal in more than one crime "

So I'm terribly sorry, I didn't realize having an opinion was a crime! I'll have to watch that from now on, since I wouldn't want to end up in some prison.:rolleyes: