Princess now requires Passport for Minors with only One Adult

[Rinderoo]

The other issue here is when I went into my own reservation with the DD on it, and clicked on the documentation link, it did not mention anything about the passport requirements for solo adults and minor children.

 

So again, the web site says two things and one contradicts the other.

 

I was expecting an email from them about this since its me and DD on the reservation (Hubby is on another res and we'll just swap roommates on board.) But nothing from them.

[Pmorton3360]

Our bookings were all linked. We were told that all 9 of us in 4 cabins needed the passports. The 7 , thankfully, already had them. Even our TA couldn't find a reason. Just glad our cruise in 4 weeks will go off. We were notified about 2 weeks ago. Really fast with the passports.

[CantanaLobo]

Consider the solo adult with kids who leaves a kid on board and gets in trouble in port and does not board: Simply pack up the kid and drop him/her with a government rep. Have a problem on the ship? Simple: Kick everyone off and no guilt, because the kid can fly home while the adult is detained. A kid without a passport can't be dropped off in that country, right?.

 

This makes sense to me. It's for the cruise lines benefit not the passengers.

[UpcountryTravelers]

Fanning the Passport debate...

 

...Can a business make their requirements more strict than the Federal law? ...

 

Of course they can. The law is the minimum required, not the maximum. They must adhere at least to the law - they can always go beyond. Happens all the time in many circumstances. (As a safety professional with a major corporation, I always went way beyond the law in taking care of people. It's good business.)

[UpcountryTravelers]

.... It's going to be messy for Princess if a single mom shows up at the cruise terminal with passport cards for her family after being told they're OK on the phone, is denied boarding due to lack of a passport, and then alleges discrimination.

 

...

 

If they have passport cards, then they have passports (for all the travel covered in the original post). The are equally valid.

[Pam in CA]

Of course they can. The law is the minimum required, not the maximum. They must adhere at least to the law - they can always go beyond. Happens all the time in many circumstances

I agree. Many companies go beyond the minimum, whether it's safety, cleanliness, etc. In this case, I think Princess is doing the right thing. If the adult they're traveling with does something stupid like hit someone else, bring drugs onboard, etc., they'll be arrested and put ashore. It's certainly happened. The child will be disembarked, too. Having a passport means that the child can be returned to the US.

[dwjoe]

If they have passport cards, then they have passports (for all the travel covered in the original post). The are equally valid.

That's not how I read the requirement. Generally a "passport" means a passport book, not either a book OR a card. They say that you might not be able to disembark with just a WHTI-compliant document, and that seems to refer to a passport card, EDL, etc. which were created for WHTI. Further, disembarkation in a foreign port requires a different immigration check than your typical port day. They are saying that you may not be able to disembark with just a WHTI document or birth cert, therefore, they are requiring passports for all parties consisting of minors accompanied by a single adult.

 

That's what Princess meant, I think. But now it gets messy, b/c the government's regs imply that the passport card is a type of passport, as you have argued.

 

Sec. 51.3 Types of passports.

* * * * *

(d) Passport card. A passport card is issued to a national of the

United States on the same basis as a regular passport. It is valid only

for departure from and entry to the United States through land and sea

ports of entry between the United States and Mexico, Canada, the

Caribbean and Bermuda. It is not a globally interoperable international

travel document.

 

It would be nice if Princess would clarify this point like Regent Seven Seas Cruises which specifically disallows the passport card in their passport requirements.

[cherylandtk]

I'll venture out on a limb to say that I think Princess means passport book when they say 'passport'. They (confusingly) list Alaska and Hawaii cruises as being among the destinations that require passports. I guess that is because they are worried the lone adult might have to disembark in the 3 hours while in Victoria or Ensenada??

 

A passport card would work in either case to get everyone by car or foot back to the US side of the border, but Princess makes no distinction between these two cruise itineraries and the rest of the list, where there is no land border and thus most returns would most likely be via air, necessitating a passport. So I figure they mean passport=passport book, just as it does on the rest of their website.

[cherylandtk]

I was expecting an email from them about this since its me and DD on the reservation (Hubby is on another res and we'll just swap roommates on board.) But nothing from them.

 

Our bookings were all linked. We were told that all 9 of us in 4 cabins needed the passports. The 7 , thankfully, already had them. Even our TA couldn't find a reason. Just glad our cruise in 4 weeks will go off. We were notified about 2 weeks ago. Really fast with the passports.

I wonder if the differences experienced here might be related to the fact that Rinderoo, while on two reservations, is actually traveling with two parents in the family, with their two children, and the linked bookings show that. And in pmortons group there was one single mom with her daughter and exchange student. If the mom takes ill in a foreign port, the minors would have to be able to leave the ship with her because there is no additional legal parent/guardian on the ship. But that begs the question why the remaining 7 in the group would be required to carry passports too. It seems if they were not linked, it would not have been an issue?!? Which is just plain silly. They probably only linked bookings in the first place so they could eat dinner together.

[caribill]

a) It was suggested this was because a parent might not get back on board and thus leave a child without a passport on the ship. But this can happen with two parents as both parents might not make it back to the ship on time.

 

b) And what about two adults traveling together either with only one having a passport or both not having passports? Is Princess saying that a sick adult cannot be disembarked without a passport?

 

Any logic that applies to a child with a single accompanying adult would apply to every passenger on the ship.

[caribill]

If they have passport cards, then they have passports (for all the travel covered in the original post). The are equally valid.

 

No, a passport card cannot be used for air travel back to the USA from any foreign country. Not from Canada, not from Mexico, not from anywhere else.

[1025cruise]

Princess can definitely have rules that are more stringent than the government.

As a non-cruise example, in my state, in order to be licensed as a general contractor, all one needs is liability insurance. Assuming that the person is a single general contractor, no employees, that's all they need. They get licensed as a sole proprietor. The condo complex I just moved out of requires all contractors doing work to carry Workman's Comp. Most sole proprietors do not carry this, but yet I am required to have anyone doing work provide their certificate. Makes it difficult to find a contractor.

[WVBill]

People are focusing on the minor child without a passport not being able to return to the US from the foreign port.

 

Princess mentions "Disembarking" the minor child in the foreign port.

"Disembarking" is different from "going ashore"

 

So the issue may be that the foreign country may refuse entry to a disembraking passenger without a passport. It may not be a US law Princess is worried about.

 

Effect is essentially the same either way. If single parent needs to disembark, Princess is stuck with a minor child if he/she doesn't have a passport.

[dwjoe]

People are focusing on the minor child without a passport not being able to return to the US from the foreign port.

 

Princess mentions "Disembarking" the minor child in the foreign port.

"Disembarking" is different from "going ashore"

 

So the issue may be that the foreign country may refuse entry to a disembraking passenger without a passport. It may not be a US law Princess is worried about.

 

Effect is essentially the same either way. If single parent needs to disembark, Princess is stuck with a minor child if he/she doesn't have a passport.

This makes sense and I think this is the plain meaning of the rule.

[dwjoe]

I can see an couple of reasons to do this.

 

The most obvious one is that if the child has a passport and the parent doesn't and the child is injured or needs medical attention at a foreign port. While the child can be disembarked easily, the parent or guardian may need a lot more effort to do so, potentially leaving Princess in charge of a minor until it can be resolved.

 

The interesting thing is why only if one adult? If there are two adults and both don't have passports you are in the same position. It should be for each person under 21, at LEAST one adult in the travelling party and the child should have a passport.

I think this would be a simpler and fairer way of doing it. It eliminates any perceived discrimination against single parent families. It also avoids confusion about extended families booked in multiple staterooms with a single adult and children in each room.

[caribill]

So the issue may be that the foreign country may refuse entry to a disembraking passenger without a passport. It may not be a US law Princess is worried about.

 

 

So would that not be the same for every passenger on the ship, child or adult, traveling alone or with others?

[UpcountryTravelers]

No, a passport card cannot be used for air travel back to the USA from any foreign country. Not from Canada, not from Mexico, not from anywhere else.

 

We're talking sea travel, not air. Although air travel requires the book (and I always have my book), I have used only the card for Princess check-in and return from the cruise for a number of years. (Including last week.) No problem.

 

I really don't understand all the difficulty about passports. They are easy to get and cost, what, fifteen bucks a year!?!

[dwjoe]

I really don't understand all the difficulty about passports. They are easy to get and cost, what, fifteen bucks a year!?!

$13.50/yr for new passports and $11 for a renewal if you amortize them over the 10 year validity period.

 

I think the objection comes from the large® upfront expense especially multiple passports for a family.

 

Also, some folks may object on principle to needing a passport to travel and/or view it as government intrustion.

 

No matter their reason, it's not my business. It's their choice.

[sherryf]

$13.50/yr for new passports and $11 for a renewal if you amortize them over the 10 year validity period.

 

I think the objection comes from the large® upfront expense especially multiple passports for a family.

 

Children's passports are a little cheaper ($80 + $25 fee), but are only good for 5 years, so work out to be more expensive per year. ($21)

 

We got passports for all 3 of my kids at the same time. The oldest was 16, so got a 10 year passport. The 2nd kid was 13, so will renew at 18 and get a 10 year passport. The youngest was only 10, so will need to renew at 15 and still only get a 5 year passport and we will have to do it in person. Argh! Still, it is much easier traveling with them with passports and I'm glad we got them.

[UpcountryTravelers]

...

 

Also, some folks may object on principle to needing a passport to travel and/or view it as government intrustion.

 

If that's the case, then they shouldn't travel to foreign countries.

 

No matter their reason, it's not my business. It's their choice.

 

True, that.

[WVBill]

So would that not be the same for every passenger on the ship, child or adult, traveling alone or with others?

 

yes, and that's the point. They are trying to avoid a situation where a non-passport-carrying child who is traveling with just one passport carrying person legally responsible for the child disembarks the ship in a foreign port, creating the question of who is now legally responsible for the child aboard the ship - since the child cannot disembark.

Other non-child traveling companions may also be prohibited from disembarking but that doesn't create the same dilemma for Princess.

[Pmorton3360]

I see today the Dream is stuck in St. Martin. Propulsion problems. They are flying everyone home. What do you do then? If you have no passport, how do you get back into US.? We have had passports for years and only 2 didn't. I know I feel easier with all having them. My main point was the different answers we kept getting. And yes, the reason we linked was just to eat together.

[Loonbeam]

Carnival can apply for(and will be granted) an extraordinary circumstances waiver. People who fly home without passports will need documentation from the cruise line and may face additional screening.

 

I see today the Dream is stuck in St. Martin. Propulsion problems. They are flying everyone home. What do you do then? If you have no passport, how do you get back into US.? We have had passports for years and only 2 didn't. I know I feel easier with all having them. My main point was the different answers we kept getting. And yes, the reason we linked was just to eat together.

[dwjoe]

Carnival can apply for(and will be granted) an extraordinary circumstances waiver. People who fly home without passports will need documentation from the cruise line and may face additional screening.

I agree.

 

With hundreds of pax involuntarily disembarked in a foreign country, I am very confident that an exception will be made to the passport requirement.

 

The main risk of travelling without a passport is being stuck in individual circumstances or a small group where no exception will be made. Affected persons would then need to get an emergency passport from the US consulate.

[cherylandtk]

The 2:45 news update on the CC main board says that Carnival is working with both US and St. Maarten authorities and they do not expect any issues due to lack of passports. I do know that in the Triumph case they had permission to fly back the 900 non-passport holders for processing by CBP in the US.